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| Women in groups: Always trouble. |
One of the strangest places in the burly world of Men’s Rightsers and MGTOWers is The Spearhead’s Shieldmaidens forum. And no, I am not making that name up. It’s a forum, essentially, for women interested in being a sort of Women’s Auxiliary to a bunch of guys who are all about hating women.
Given that such a role – trying to help dudes who don’t much like you or your whole gender — is a bit of a tricky one, the forum moderator Hestia has written a long introductory post explaining just what new gals should and shouldn’t do to support their menfolk. It’s kind of a masterpiece of doublespeak. Let’s look at some of its highlights.
Hestia starts out by warning the ladies that these rough men sometimes talk in a rough manner:
As this is a male environment, us girls can expect styles of communication that we might not use ourselves or readily relate to. For the purpose of this post, I will call all of this “locker room talk”. … Topics and expressions women may find crude are likely to occur and generalizations about women (or white, western, whatever) used to adequately get a point across. These differences, while bothersome to some women, are not wrong in and of themselves and are not reason to shame men into expressing themselves differently. As women in the locker room, we are the ones who need to look the other [way] and make accommodations; not the men for whom this website is for.
In other words: the guys here may call you sluts and whores and worse, but really, that’s your fault for being here in the first place, so don’t complain.
Welcome aboard!
Hestia continues:
We must also respect this place as one of the few politically incorrect sanctuaries that men have in today’s misandrist world. … We should not be bullying men into saying, “yes, indeed not all women are like that!” to appease our own egos. … This is sacred male friendly ground and should be treated as such. … We are but guests on this website and must know our place and respect certain boundaries for the sake of the men here and for the work towards gender peace.
Hard to be more abject than this. So how have the menfolk responded?
It appears that not too many men actually read the Shieldmaidens forum, but among those who do, the reaction has been a little less than enthusiastic. Our friend GlobalMan, one of the more excitable Spearhead regulars, basically tells her (and all women) to fuck off entirely:
I have voiced my opinion many times women should be banned all together from here. They are contributing nothing and they are taking up a lot of time and energy of the stupid young men who do not realise that women are just attention whores who won’t actually do anything at the end of the day. ….You women pretty much fuck up everything you stick your nose into. And you never, ever tire of fucking things up for men under the delusion you have ‘something to contribute’. You don’t. Get over it. You pop out babies. That is your one and only ‘claim to fame’ and it used to be enough for a man to love a woman for her whole life and to provide for her and the kids. Now it is not. So you women need to ‘act like men’ and suck it up.Indeed. If women had any class at all you would leave of your own accord and let the men sort out what you refused to. The only posts from women here should be ‘Men, please tell us what to do’.
A fellow calling himself Diogenes offers his two cents:
That Hestia has to write this thread proves that indeed women who come to this board do exactly that which she complains against. They have such a cozy and male-coddled life that they are shocked when some men rightly express their scorn and foul language towards their attitudes and manipulative behaviour. Women BREED misogyny because all they do is constantly manipulate and get the attention and protection of men by trying to look sexy all the time. Every time a man turns his head towards a pretty lady, she knows she is being looked after and will be rescued by a man if ever her poor little ass does something stupid. They are CHILDREN at heart. One female college student mentioned to me how according to her “every girl” has gone on dates just to get free dinners. How much more proof do we need that women are NO GOOD WHORES?
I guess that’s some of the “locker room talk” Hestia was warning the ladies about.
Granted, it’s been awhile since I’ve seen the inside of a locker room, but I don’t remember much of the talk in the locker rooms I’ve been in revolving around the no-good whorishness of all women. I think that might be because most men are not in fact hateful assholes who think all women are NO GOOD WHORES.That’s just a theory though.
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*Yes, that was a Bioshock reference.
>Thank you kind sir! I'm working on a second scene, gathered quite a bit of inspiration around here these past few days. 🙂
>I didn't find it funny… perhaps because I recognize that it doesn't reflect any sort of reality except the twisted version inside Ion's head.
>Frankly, I don't see HOW you could find it funny unless you DO subscribe to Ion's viewpoints.
>Nice use of shaming tactics to drive people away. "If you're not with us, you're against us!" Too bad it's so transparent.If someone else finds it funny, will the terrorists have won?
>@forwegThe MRA movement is becoming so bloated with racists, nationalists, pick-up artists, and "man up" idiots that it's losing its purpose. Combating feminism is an entirely necessary and justified goal, but when my "allies" are nearly as repulsive it's difficult to associate with them. All of these parasitic hangers-on need to be eliminated before men's rights can advance. Yeah, guys! Can't we go back to hating women, like we did in the old days?
>@forwegY'know, not telling you how to live your life or nothin', but when these are the kinds of people your movement is attracting, (in your words "bloated with") it may be time to just step back and take the timefor some frank introspection.
>Ion, I think you're missing something important here… that is, that you really SHOULD be ashamed of yourself, for being such a total jerkwad. Hating women is something that normal people view as shameful. Kind of like people are (somewhat) ashamed to admit they are racist. That's why you get people like that Orange County Republican sending out blatantly racist emails and then claiming, "But I'm not racist!"
>Forweg, I am impressed that you choose to distance yourself from the most fringe elements in the MRM. People like that aren't going to sell their ideas well to the mainstream. I think it is disturbing that there are so many radicals and extremists on websites like the Spearhead. Even the moderate stuff there is too extreme, in my opinion. If those people toned down their anger and hatred, maybe they could better express their problems.I have read Peter Nolan's life story, and agree that if it is true, it is sad for him. However, that does not justify his decision to rant and rave against all women like he does. Have you seen this quote of his? Look for his quote near the end of the comments section on the link I am providing. His bitter divorce is not an excuse for such violent rhetoric. Notice that of the Spearhead readers, only three have yet given him a thumbs down, yet 37 gave him a thumbs up. http://www.the-spearhead.com/2011/02/22/the-high-road/Ion, I don't think there was a "you're with us or against us" argument used. I think it's true that if someone got a kick out of that bar story, they probably agree somewhat with it. That seems like a reasonable assumption, and not any kind of "shaming tactic". Those shaming tactics are simply arbitrary debating rules used by people that don't want to hear valid criticisms of their opinions. Sometimes people should feel shame, if they are expressing ideas other people find abhorrent.
>"How dare you reply in kind to our attacks! You're just a mean poopoohead who hates women!"Yawn.
>Man, I am on the fence about the whole feminists vs MRAs thingNo you're not. This faux voice of moderation form of trolling is extremely common, dude. You're not some relentlessly rational observer, you're not above the conflict, you're not a lone voice of reason. And making false equivalences between MRAs and feminists doesn't make you a moderate.
>I have plenty of reason to disbelieve Mr. Nolan's account. So do you-Mr. Nolan is what we call a Constitutionalist or a Sovereign Citizen. He refuses to recognize any authority beyond his own over him. That means that regardless of who thought the law up, such as the founding fathers (who no one can claim were a bunch of feminists), he will not follow the law. So if he lost his kids, it was very unlikely it had anything to do with any kind of child custody laws and more to do with his refusal to follow any law period.
>trip:It's not trolling; it's the fallacy of the golden mean. Someone who wants to be fair and open-minded may think that they're not being open-minded if they disagree with everything one side says.The problem, of course, is that it's perfectly possible for someone's opinion to be completely wrong, and compromising between a view that's provably false and a view that isn't is not being fair, it's being stupid.
>"No, they are perfectly normal people who stood up for themselves"Perfectly normal people? ahahahaha Being a feminist zealot makes you far from normal.As it seems, no feminist on here is normal as they keep constantly screaming at men about how they are somehow the privileged class and this invisible imaginary patriarchy is to blame for all their problems. When you ask them to prove it, they direct you to what some other nutter feminist said and explain that just because another feminist said so, it's undeniable truthhhh I tell ya. And about the privilege crap, riiight. There are more women employed than men and men have to do all the most dangerous and dirty jobs. Not only that, political correctness favours women when it comes to gender issues.Seriously, more than anything, all I see from the feminists here is a disturbing mental illness.
>So far we have:NWO – "WHARGLBLARG!!!! mENZ GETz TOO TELLZ U WHO UR LEdERSz R!!!"Forweg – "I get to tell you what you can be offended by"And Ion "I get to tell you what's funny."Sadly, I was hoping for more analysis in Sheldmaidens and their codependencies.
>"Forweg – "I get to tell you what you can be offended by""Hahaha. Feminists and projection are peas in a pod, as usual.You know, I'm a pretty self-absorbed guy. I remember talking about myself a lot here, but I don't particularly remember telling others what to be offended by.In fact, it's not a behavior I normally engage in either. Strange.Oh, wait. Memory loss must be another perk of the patriarchy. Wow, it feels awesome to be given so many magical abilities in life just because I'm male. Cool beans.
>Elizabeth, I agree about Nolan. And given the sort of nonsense he believes in and promulgates, I can't trust a single thing he says on any subject, including himself. He has zero credibility.
>Nick, do not let easily found information impede on your worldview. "There are more women employed than men…" "Women comprised 46.8 percent of the total U.S. labor force [in 2009] and are projected to account for 46.9 percent of the labor force in 2010."(from the US department of labor http://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/main.htm)Women are 50.7% of the US population.(from the Census Bureau http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html)Ah, reality, it is a harsh mistress…
>Those guys tend to be really nasty and loud in court-at one point, one of the ones who showed up here locally had to be gagged because he refused to be quiet despite repeated requests during his trial. Security also had to be increased because these guys no qualms about getting violent with anyone.
>Wow Darkside Cat, you may have proved me wrong in that point. Considering that the US department of Labor also indicates that the wage gap theory is NOT due to discrimination against women must be true also. As the same source (US department of Labor)has something that's in your favourable opinion.Speaking of the awful males being so privileged and all, I forgot to mention that it's a fact (I won't bother looking up the stats as it's well known) that most homeless people are men.
>Mr. Nolan is what we call a Constitutionalist or a Sovereign Citizen. He refuses to recognize any authority beyond his own over him.And yet he is quick to preach that women should have no sovereignty nor autonomy of any kind, that they should be the chattel property of men and LOVE it because it's for their own good. Yep, no yoke around his neck, but if you're not a penis-bearer then, by golly, you'd better have a yoke around yours!!Relayed a story at (I believe it was) the Spearhead, about how he had to lock himself in the bathroom in order that his wife (now his ex) not feel his wrath over her refusing him sex when he wanted it… thought himself a hero for doing so. Yep, can't imagine why any woman would want to ditch that self-described "perfect husband and father".
>Most homeless individuals are male-families are usually headed by females. SourceAnd just because I am nice sometimes: The Statistical Abstract of the United States for those of us who live in the US is an excellent place to start when looking for stats. This is Australia's. Enjoy…
>Elizabeth and Pam, that is some scary stuff Peter Nolan believes in. He calls himself a Sovereign? Then his majesty needs to look around and realize he has no territory or people to rule. In the US, people like that are thrown in prison for tax evasion and harassment. I could only imagine how awful women would live if he actually had jurisdiction over real people in the real world. The more I learn, the more I feel sorry for his ex wife. I don't blame her for refusing to have sex with him. His side of the divorce story makes him out to be such a victim, but why would a helpless victim advocate mass violence against strangers?
>Ion whines about shaming language while he trots out his pathetic little fantasies—and calls me Andrea Dworkin. Flounce, Ion, flounce. Aren't you supposed to be gone? Jeez, are all MRAs as petulant as Scott Adams? Because that's who Ion is acting like.
>you know what, I'm tired of the fucing MRM claiming that all feminists are bad because of andrea dworkin so, I'm going to give the MRM a couple of other feminist quotesEvery time we liberate a woman, we liberate a man. ~Margaret MeadMen weren't really the enemy – they were fellow victims suffering from an outmoded masculine mystique that made them feel unnecessarily inadequate when there were no bears to kill. ~Betty FriedanFirst and foremost, I'm a feminist. And basically that stems from a strong belief that all people and creatures deserve equal opportunity, rights and respect. Kathy NajimyThe feminist movement has helped open minds and kitchens to the notion that men can be at home on the range.Rene Veaux You don't have to be anti-man to be pro-woman. ~Jane Galvin LewisOne of the things about equality is not just that you be treated equally to a man, but that you treat yourself equally to the way you treat a man. ~Marlo ThomasI do not wish them to have power over men, but over themselves. ~Mary WollstonecraftThe little rift between the sexes is astonishingly widened by simply teaching one set of catchwords to the girls and another to the boys. ~Robert Louis StevensonAll this pitting of sex against sex, of quality against quality; all this claiming of superiority and imputing of inferiority belong to the private-school stage of human existence where there are sides, and it is necessary for one side to beat another side. ~Virginia Woolf
>UK stats:A greater proportion of men than women of working age in the UK were in employment in 2008. In the second quarter of 2008 the employment rate was 79 per cent for men and 70 per cent for women, unchanged since 1999. The employment rates for men have been rising since the second quarter of 1971, levelling off in more recent years. Over the same period the female employment rates have generally increased, although almost half are part time jobs.http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=1654From the Office of National Statistics. Follow the link, it has lots of pretty graphs!