>
 |
| Women in groups: Always trouble. |
One of the strangest places in the burly world of Men’s Rightsers and MGTOWers is The Spearhead’s Shieldmaidens forum. And no, I am not making that name up. It’s a forum, essentially, for women interested in being a sort of Women’s Auxiliary to a bunch of guys who are all about hating women.
Given that such a role – trying to help dudes who don’t much like you or your whole gender — is a bit of a tricky one, the forum moderator Hestia has written a long introductory post explaining just what new gals should and shouldn’t do to support their menfolk. It’s kind of a masterpiece of doublespeak. Let’s look at some of its highlights.
Hestia starts out by warning the ladies that these rough men sometimes talk in a rough manner:
As this is a male environment, us girls can expect styles of communication that we might not use ourselves or readily relate to. For the purpose of this post, I will call all of this “locker room talk”. … Topics and expressions women may find crude are likely to occur and generalizations about women (or white, western, whatever) used to adequately get a point across. These differences, while bothersome to some women, are not wrong in and of themselves and are not reason to shame men into expressing themselves differently. As women in the locker room, we are the ones who need to look the other [way] and make accommodations; not the men for whom this website is for.
In other words: the guys here may call you sluts and whores and worse, but really, that’s your fault for being here in the first place, so don’t complain.
Welcome aboard!
Hestia continues:
We must also respect this place as one of the few politically incorrect sanctuaries that men have in today’s misandrist world. … We should not be bullying men into saying, “yes, indeed not all women are like that!” to appease our own egos. … This is sacred male friendly ground and should be treated as such. … We are but guests on this website and must know our place and respect certain boundaries for the sake of the men here and for the work towards gender peace.
Hard to be more abject than this. So how have the menfolk responded?
It appears that not too many men actually read the Shieldmaidens forum, but among those who do, the reaction has been a little less than enthusiastic. Our friend GlobalMan, one of the more excitable Spearhead regulars, basically tells her (and all women) to fuck off entirely:
I have voiced my opinion many times women should be banned all together from here. They are contributing nothing and they are taking up a lot of time and energy of the stupid young men who do not realise that women are just attention whores who won’t actually do anything at the end of the day. ….You women pretty much fuck up everything you stick your nose into. And you never, ever tire of fucking things up for men under the delusion you have ‘something to contribute’. You don’t. Get over it. You pop out babies. That is your one and only ‘claim to fame’ and it used to be enough for a man to love a woman for her whole life and to provide for her and the kids. Now it is not. So you women need to ‘act like men’ and suck it up.Indeed. If women had any class at all you would leave of your own accord and let the men sort out what you refused to. The only posts from women here should be ‘Men, please tell us what to do’.
A fellow calling himself Diogenes offers his two cents:
That Hestia has to write this thread proves that indeed women who come to this board do exactly that which she complains against. They have such a cozy and male-coddled life that they are shocked when some men rightly express their scorn and foul language towards their attitudes and manipulative behaviour. Women BREED misogyny because all they do is constantly manipulate and get the attention and protection of men by trying to look sexy all the time. Every time a man turns his head towards a pretty lady, she knows she is being looked after and will be rescued by a man if ever her poor little ass does something stupid. They are CHILDREN at heart. One female college student mentioned to me how according to her “every girl” has gone on dates just to get free dinners. How much more proof do we need that women are NO GOOD WHORES?
I guess that’s some of the “locker room talk” Hestia was warning the ladies about.
Granted, it’s been awhile since I’ve seen the inside of a locker room, but I don’t remember much of the talk in the locker rooms I’ve been in revolving around the no-good whorishness of all women. I think that might be because most men are not in fact hateful assholes who think all women are NO GOOD WHORES.That’s just a theory though.
—
If you enjoyed this post, would you kindly* use the “Share This” or one of the other buttons below to share it on Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, or wherever else you want. I appreciate it.
*Yes, that was a Bioshock reference.
>I don't want to sound like a pop psychologist, but I wonder if Hestia and the other "Shield maidens" have codependent personalities. They are blaming themselves for the misogyny on the Spearhead website. I would not be surprised if they have been in abusive relationships and so they think that being put down and insulted is normal, or that they deserve it just for being women. I sensed that the posters Globalman and Diogenes are narcissistic with a strong sense of entitlement, as in entitled to beautiful, meek women to dominate. Narcissists tend to be attracted to codependents with low self esteem. The Spearhead moderators quickly ban moderates who could acts as a voice of reason, and so these unhealthy people are around only other unhealthy people. They get caught up in their little world/cult together and don't realize how far they have strayed from normal.
>Ion-you did not come on here with any sort of basic respect you claim you have for any person. You came on here spoiling for a fight and got one. And now you are claiming "well since you reacted the way I demanded, not only are you stupider than I, you also are terrible man haters."No, they are perfectly normal people who stood up for themselves. Forweg-that is not feminism they are reacting to. In fact, what Globalman said is essentially the same thing that Aristotle said about women over two thousand years ago. The difference being that Aristotle said it in more refined language and was more accepting of the role women had to play in society. Nor has anything feminists have put out in the past 150 years the equal to anything those two said. A little from the two women you constantly cite as proof all feminists are evil misandrists perhaps-but they were thoroughly refuted by mainstream and even most of the fringe feminists. You not only do not refute them, you excuse their misogyny as if they have just cause to feel that way.
>I don't read NWO posts, I just read Holly. All the content and 100% more humor.Also, yes, you always have a right to challenge a restraining order with a hearing.
>Or they genuinely believe that modern women have lost something intricately feminine that defines them.
>Ion-you did not come on here with any sort of basic respect you claim you have for any person. You came on here spoiling for a fight and got one. And now you are claiming "well since you reacted the way I demanded, not only are you stupider than I, you also are terrible man haters." No, they are perfectly normal people who stood up for themselves. May I suggest you are really stretching the definition of "perfectly normal". My basic respect went out the window when I saw how people were talking here. Tell me, was SallyStrange "standing up for herself" when she called T4T an 'idiot loser' for disagreeing with her – politely, I might add? Was ginmar "standing up for herself" when she was ranting and cursing like a lunatic? I suppose making the umpteenth statement about "flouncing" (there's that original insult again) or "inflatable dolls", those fine folks were just "standing up for themselves?" Give me a break. Oh, and lest you keep assuming I see myself as some kind of victim, trust me, I'm not. I simply gave as good as I got. It's actually been pretty fun. 🙂
>On the nuclear submarine thing – if a woman feels it's her calling to serve on a nuclear submarine, and wants to take birth control to eliminate her periods, she should be able to. Maybe she's post-menopausal. Maybe she's had a hysterectomy. Maybe she's willing to take the risks. Maybe she'll use the Diva cup, which is reusable. Birth control is getting better and better, it's possible.
>Acivenna-why do you think it is sexist to admire someone's good looks? Generally if a person gussies up they are seeking admiring looks and that goes for men to. Being polite is also not sexist (in other words, holding the door open for someone or helping a little old lady with her groceries-notwithstanding Terry Pratchett's belief that little old ladies can carry double or treble their own weight-is just being mannerly.)
>@NWOslave:About your signature:Men are Imperfect Women. Men are Broken.Men are the burgiousse oppressor class.Women are the peasant victim class.Man =Bad.Woman = Good."Burgiousse" is not a word. I suspect what you mean is "bourgeois." If you want to be taken seriously, anywhere (not just by feminists), it's a good idea to use proper spelling.
>The idea is that feminists often speak in incredibly confusing ways using "waffle" (scientific term for using big words when simple ones suffice). It's an idea that we are trying to make the most difficult of subjects as easy as possible to read while a lot of feminist theory is very complicated. I find this difficult to follow. You don’t like using big words when small ones will suffice, therefore, not a feminist? This only follows if you assume that a.) it’s true that those big words really are 100% replaceable with smaller ones and b.) all feminists are in agreement that only the big words will do. I don’t think either of those is the case. It's simple "genders are equal except on nuclear submarines" (It's unfair to request women to take the pill for long periods of time to completely eliminate their periods. And indeed there is a side effect of hormonal drugs in that they can cause depression particularly if using the higher dose COCPs as I have some experience with a friend whose condition improved significantly after being moved onto low dose COCPs with the placebo period.)Again, this doesn’t really follow, without certain assumptions. Assumption a: you have to cease menstruating in order to serve on a submarine. Assumption b: there is, and never will be, any medical advances that will allow women to do so without debilitating side effects. Assumption c: all feminists agree that… what? Women should be able to serve on a submarine, AND menstruate all over everybody while they’re on board? I agree that I am a "bit sexist". This is a sexist society. We are all “a little bit sexist,” just as we are all a little bit racist. Only fools and bigots proclaim "I'm not sexist/racist AT ALL!"
>Ion-Sally was calling him what he is. He has, on more than one occasion, acted exactly like that. He is no different then NWOslave with the sole exception he does not use the kind of language that NWOslave uses. Ginmar has her/his reasons for being the way s/he is. I do not always agree with the reaction (like with Kave) but I also think that most of the time, s/he is correct in the tone used.Also, the word flounce is a pretty accurate description of the way you were acting. Kind of like when Cartman flounced off saying "screw you guys, I am going home."
>…Continued from previous post…When I see a pretty woman I get distracted.So don’t we all (or substitute pretty whomever, according to preference). Feminism doesn’t ask you to stop experiencing distraction thanks to physical attraction. It only asks you to keep your penis’ opinion to yourself unless you’re actively trying to strike up a romantic relationship with a particular woman. I carry shopping, hold open doors and so on. People say it's patronising, I feel awkward not doing it. You may want someone to have equal rights but the idea is that traditionally men are expected to behave a certain way and a lot of women expect that.That’s just politeness. I open doors for anyone and carry shopping if it’s necessary, regardless of gender. Whether it’s “patronizing” or not is something only you can know. Do you do it because you regard women as inherently weak? No? Then it’s not patronizing regardless of what someone else may think. As far as what behavior is expected by SOME (clearly not all) women–So the fuck what? Some men expect me to simper and giggle and flirt whenever I speak to them, regardless of the situation, and judge me negatively when I don’t. Are you saying that you aren’t a feminist because some women aren’t feminists, and will judge you negatively for not opening doors for them? I mean, that doesn’t make any sense in the first place, but when you add in the fact that feminism has fuck-all to say about the desirability of opening doors or carrying things for people (only about making assumptions of strength or weakness based on gender), the illogic of this train of thinking becomes undeniable.Would it be a bad thing to lose any of this?It would be a good thing if you could lose your unexamined and inaccurate assumptions, yes.Would life be so much worse if marriages turned into indian ones where both sides sit down and plan out a wedding as if they were planning the invasion of Poland rather than the guy attempting to pull of some harebrained scheme to surprise the woman? Trust me the second way is far better than the first.Bit of a non sequitur here. Arranged marriages vs. love marriages? Certainly a question feminists grapple with, but ultimately the only truly feminist goal is to make sure that every woman AND man who enters into such agreements does so informed and of his or her own free will. …Not all the old ways are bad.Agreed, so let’s be more judicious and deliberate about choosing which old ways we get rid of, and which ones we preserve.
>About T4T–he may not swear much, but his rank dishonesty is far more uncivil than 1,000 "fuck"s could ever be.
>…Continued from previous post… If this is a double post, please ignore–I think it got eaten the first time, for no discernable reason. Avicenna was speaking:When I see a pretty woman I get distracted.So don’t we all (or substitute pretty whomever, according to preference). Feminism doesn’t ask you to stop experiencing distraction thanks to physical attraction. It only asks you to keep your penis’ opinion to yourself unless you’re actively trying to strike up a romantic relationship with a particular woman. I carry shopping, hold open doors and so on. People say it's patronising, I feel awkward not doing it. You may want someone to have equal rights but the idea is that traditionally men are expected to behave a certain way and a lot of women expect that.That’s just politeness. I open doors for anyone and carry shopping if it’s necessary, regardless of gender. Whether it’s “patronizing” or not is something only you can know. Do you do it because you regard women as inherently weak? No? Then it’s not patronizing regardless of what someone else may think. Some women expect that behavior? So the fuck what? Some men expect me to simper and giggle and flirt whenever I speak to them, regardless of the situation, and judge me negatively when I don’t. Are you saying that you aren’t a feminist because some women aren’t feminists, and will judge you negatively for not opening doors for them? I mean, that doesn’t make any sense in the first place, but when you add in the fact that feminism has fuck-all to say about the desirability of opening doors or carrying things to people, the illogic of this train of thinking becomes truly apparent. Would it be a bad thing to lose any of this?It would be a good thing if you could lose your unexamined and inaccurate assumptions, yes.Would life be so much worse if marriages turned into indian ones where both sides sit down and plan out a wedding as if they were planning the invasion of Poland rather than the guy attempting to pull of some harebrained scheme to surprise the woman? Trust me the second way is far better than the first. Bit of a non sequitur here. Arranged marriages vs. love marriages? Certainly a question feminists grapple with, but ultimately the only truly feminist goal is to make sure that every woman and man who enters into such agreements does so informed and of his or her own free will. …Not all the old ways are bad.Agreed, so let’s be more judicious and deliberate about choosing which old ways we get rid of, and which ones we preserve.
>Incidentally, for some reason my username is showing up as Sally Lichtenstein instead of Sally Strange. I don't know why. Neither is my real name, so I don't really care. Just letting people know, in case they're confused.
>You know, I always wondered, what is it about periods that makes so much of a difference as far as sewage disposal goes? I mean, guys still have to pee and poop, and if somebody gets sick, the mess has to get cleaned up. What makes it so easy to dispose of that waste, but so difficult to dispose of period byproducts? Is it a matter of having to clean the bathrooms a little more often, a matter of guys not wanting to be tainted by girly stuff, or what?It confuses me, and if somebody else has more insight, I'd be happy to hear it.
>Ion, on the other hand, is one of those people who wouldn't have anything to do with the Civil Rights Movement, because, "That Malcolm X is so ANGRY! And that MLK fellow is a communist." IOW, argumentum ad hominem, without even using accurate ad hominems.
>"RAnting and cursing like a lunatic"? Hey, asshole, you're the one who comes up with these elaborate posts about—-what was it? Bars, bullshit, and booze? You get what you give. You gave complete and utter hostility and then you whine because women aren't sucking your cock. You flounced. You're still here. No backbone, I guess.
>Elizabeth, you tell me exactly what you thnk of this little creation of Ion's and then tell me what's wrong with my response to him. Ion: Weird, every time I had enough of a feminist's nonsense and announced I was leaving, they'd triumphantly call it a 'flounce' and take it as a sign of victory. Maybe I should do the same? Nah. But don't go, I have the first part of the script for you!SCENE 1 – Outside a Sleazy Bar, Nighttimeginmar: What do you mean I'm getting kicked out! This is a blatant example of the patriarchy keeping a woman down! I swear you'll pay for this!!!Bartender: Sorry lady, no more drinks until you pay your tab. You want me to call you a cab or what?ginmar: OOOH, sure, I'm just a helpless woman who can't call her own transportation! Good thing there's a strong man here to take care of me! Isn't that right? You make me sick! *vomits on sidewalk*Bartender: What? Look, I just meant you're in no condition to drive and-ginmar: Spare me your -BLEARGH- mansplaining! -ARGLBL- You sexist *cough* *cough* small-dicked *hack* bingo card *splutter* MRAs *cough* loser!Bartender: Whatever, lady. You're on your own. *walks back inside*ginmar: That's right, you're just another loser who can't handle a strong woman like me! Ughh… now where did I park… *smacks into streetlamp* Aha! A phallic symbol placed here by the patriarchy to oppress women! I'll get you too, don't you worry *stumbles away, muttering*more tomorrow if I don't get banned 🙂Ion's nothing but an MRA asshole, and people tend to forget just how much shit he's pulled. I won't. And if people don't like the way I respond to the little cockpuller, then too fucking bad. BAn him or nail him, but don't expect me to tolerate his shit.
>The US is moving towards having women serve on subs but there is of course opposition but that seems to be more about "well we never did it that way before" then anything based on women not being able to serve. And if there were issues with mixing the two, why is it not possible to have all male and all female crews?
>Oh yeah, that was a time when ginmar said she was leaving but came back to rant some more! She didn't stick the flounce! lol. Also, check out her response to me even before I wrote that.Incidentally I'm quite proud of that script. I think it reflects reality, as art should. 😛
>I did say that you were correct on the tone Ginmar in most cases-and Ion certainly fits in with those cases.He also has been going too far with the sleazy "Oh do not tell anyone about our love affair" comments. Ugh. It is a very repellent way of being dismissive and sexist all rolled into one big ball of yuck.
>It does not reflect reality or the way women, drunk or not, really act Ion.It reflects what you think women are like though. And that reflection is a poor one.
>I'd rather have one ginmar watching my back than a dozen like you, Ion. Even if I fucked up I could count on her to tell me to my face what I'd done wrong. With you or anyone like you I'd have to constantly worry about getting hung out to dry or outright shanked in the back for breaking some unwritten rule of being a Real Man.
>"You not only do not refute them, you excuse their misogyny as if they have just cause to feel that way."Nobody made any excuses. They are responsible for their own words. But it's still important to understand what caused them to feel the way they do.Mr. Nolan has many times told his tale of woe. If he is to be believed, feminist laws caused him to lose his children and his finances. I have no reason to not believe him."I am not a feminist either. I just think that the MRAs are giving the rest of the men in the world a bad name"You know what? Due to recent events, I'm starting to agree with this sentiment, for entirely different reasons.The MRA movement is becoming so bloated with racists, nationalists, pick-up artists, and "man up" idiots that it's losing its purpose. Combating feminism is an entirely necessary and justified goal, but when my "allies" are nearly as repulsive it's difficult to associate with them. All of these parasitic hangers-on need to be eliminated before men's rights can advance.
>I don't subscribe to many of Ion's points of view, but give him his due- that "Andrea Dworkin Leaves the Bar" scene is actually pretty funny.