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| Women in groups: Always trouble. |
One of the strangest places in the burly world of Men’s Rightsers and MGTOWers is The Spearhead’s Shieldmaidens forum. And no, I am not making that name up. It’s a forum, essentially, for women interested in being a sort of Women’s Auxiliary to a bunch of guys who are all about hating women.
Given that such a role – trying to help dudes who don’t much like you or your whole gender — is a bit of a tricky one, the forum moderator Hestia has written a long introductory post explaining just what new gals should and shouldn’t do to support their menfolk. It’s kind of a masterpiece of doublespeak. Let’s look at some of its highlights.
Hestia starts out by warning the ladies that these rough men sometimes talk in a rough manner:
As this is a male environment, us girls can expect styles of communication that we might not use ourselves or readily relate to. For the purpose of this post, I will call all of this “locker room talk”. … Topics and expressions women may find crude are likely to occur and generalizations about women (or white, western, whatever) used to adequately get a point across. These differences, while bothersome to some women, are not wrong in and of themselves and are not reason to shame men into expressing themselves differently. As women in the locker room, we are the ones who need to look the other [way] and make accommodations; not the men for whom this website is for.
In other words: the guys here may call you sluts and whores and worse, but really, that’s your fault for being here in the first place, so don’t complain.
Welcome aboard!
Hestia continues:
We must also respect this place as one of the few politically incorrect sanctuaries that men have in today’s misandrist world. … We should not be bullying men into saying, “yes, indeed not all women are like that!” to appease our own egos. … This is sacred male friendly ground and should be treated as such. … We are but guests on this website and must know our place and respect certain boundaries for the sake of the men here and for the work towards gender peace.
Hard to be more abject than this. So how have the menfolk responded?
It appears that not too many men actually read the Shieldmaidens forum, but among those who do, the reaction has been a little less than enthusiastic. Our friend GlobalMan, one of the more excitable Spearhead regulars, basically tells her (and all women) to fuck off entirely:
I have voiced my opinion many times women should be banned all together from here. They are contributing nothing and they are taking up a lot of time and energy of the stupid young men who do not realise that women are just attention whores who won’t actually do anything at the end of the day. ….You women pretty much fuck up everything you stick your nose into. And you never, ever tire of fucking things up for men under the delusion you have ‘something to contribute’. You don’t. Get over it. You pop out babies. That is your one and only ‘claim to fame’ and it used to be enough for a man to love a woman for her whole life and to provide for her and the kids. Now it is not. So you women need to ‘act like men’ and suck it up.Indeed. If women had any class at all you would leave of your own accord and let the men sort out what you refused to. The only posts from women here should be ‘Men, please tell us what to do’.
A fellow calling himself Diogenes offers his two cents:
That Hestia has to write this thread proves that indeed women who come to this board do exactly that which she complains against. They have such a cozy and male-coddled life that they are shocked when some men rightly express their scorn and foul language towards their attitudes and manipulative behaviour. Women BREED misogyny because all they do is constantly manipulate and get the attention and protection of men by trying to look sexy all the time. Every time a man turns his head towards a pretty lady, she knows she is being looked after and will be rescued by a man if ever her poor little ass does something stupid. They are CHILDREN at heart. One female college student mentioned to me how according to her “every girl” has gone on dates just to get free dinners. How much more proof do we need that women are NO GOOD WHORES?
I guess that’s some of the “locker room talk” Hestia was warning the ladies about.
Granted, it’s been awhile since I’ve seen the inside of a locker room, but I don’t remember much of the talk in the locker rooms I’ve been in revolving around the no-good whorishness of all women. I think that might be because most men are not in fact hateful assholes who think all women are NO GOOD WHORES.That’s just a theory though.
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>None of my question have ever been answered. It's time to put on my tin foil hat and go to sleep. Got to get up early and risk my life in a low paying hazardous job, and yes I do risk my life(I'm so damned privileged for that $19 bucks an hour). Look on the bright side, this might be my last post.
>One last post, I never drink, ever. Rots brain cells ya know.
>If you'd asked a question, actually, it probably would have been answered. But "WOMEN ARE EVIL MONSTERS" isn't a question.Next time, try "ARE WOMEN EVIL MONSTERS?"
>There was a question (oh and $19 an hour is not a low paying wage. $8 is a low paying wage) about Title IX funding. Title IX says: No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance…"—United States Code Section 20Since it does not specify which sex, it applies equally to both. And if you want to complain about men not having access to colleges, first find out why they are not applying in greater numbers-that is a key question that no one seems to be asked much less answered.
>NWO, we went over all this the last time someone cut and pasted one of these evil feminist lists here: These lists are typically so full of mistakes and distortions that I don't want them posted here UNLESS you can give specific citations for each quote and, preferably, a link so we can see these quotes in context. Some of these quotes I remember from the list that I went through here: http://www.manboobz.com/2011/02/factchecking-list-of-hateful-quotes.htmlThe Marilyn French quote that starts off your list is in fact a quote from a fictional character in her novel The Women's Room; it is not a reflection of her ideology. Judith Levine is not by any stretch of the imagination a "radical feminist." I suspect that quote is from her book "My enemy, my love," a book ABOUT misandry, not a book promoting it, and is in fact a summary of other people's views, not her own. You can see more about that book and her other books here:http://www.judithlevine.com/books/The Csatherine Comins quote is not actually a quote from her, but someone else's paraphrase of what she said. She's not a prominent feminist.I've never heard of Sally Miller Gearhart. The Catharine MacKinnon quote doesn't sound like anything of hers I've ever read. Some of the quotes I know are true: the Dworkin quote about death, the Barbara Jordan quote. The rest are probably a mix of true and made up (or taken completely out of context in a way that distorts their meaning). Many if not most of these quotes are from the 1970s, some from the 80s and 90s. Dworkin and other radical feminists have been thoroughly critiqued by numerous feminists, and most of those who call themselves feminists today implicitly or explicitly reject their ideas. Some of those quoted have also changed and moderated their views since then. And some of them have died. In short, these are NOT the "leaders" of feminism today. Some of them WERE prominent feminists who had their heyday decades ago, and whose ideas have been rejected by most feminists today. Others were never prominent, and are only remembered today because MRAs keep putting them on lists like this.
>NWO: You realize that that ruling out the possibility of drunkenness only makes your behavior more absurd.
>David: Do I win my bet (more than 50% before 1990)?
>@Will Narbon, I'm pretty sure he IS getting all these "facts" from the rectal repository, honestly.
>"Yea that it lizzy, 25 years as a machinist, wireman, machine designer, installer and assmbler yet a 2 year college girl was better qualified."Ever think maybe it's your charming personality that got you let go?
>Wait a minute…what questions was he even asking?
>Couldn't find any new material in your daily trawl, Futrelle? You had to dig up this old stuff?Globalman has long ago been (unjustly) banned from the Spearhead forums, which I'm sure you're well aware of, given how much time you spend obsessively smearing MRAs.—You know what, Futrelle? This website gives me hope for the future. The fact that feminists like you have gone from ignoring us to actively fighting us is a sign of progress. Judging by your actions, we are clearly a real threat to you now.Manboobz.com should give much moral support to anti-feminists everywhere.
>"“Nick, get a life and stop dwelling on how awful women are.”For one, I am not an MRA and I don't hangout in MRA sites.Secondly, I am not a feminist; the only feminist site I even bother to look at (more than a few times) is this one.Thirdly, 99 percent of the time, I am not hanging in this site.Which all means that I am not dwelling and obsessing over misandry/misogyny like the feminist zealots here and the MRA zealots in them sites.Why aren’t I dwelling and obsessing over this? *drums rolling*…..because I have a life.Having a life means I have other things/multiple things on my mind and agenda which involves being off of this blog and off of the internet altogether.Being a feminist zealot would be a very sad sheltered life. Nearly 99 percent of things that are cruising around in your mind are poor women wahhh, misogyny wahhhh. But what about the other things in this whole world? Surprise, surprise, there are actually things to feel happy about it. But feminist zealots seem to be very unhappy and depressed people. Not to mention, they have a serious chip on their shoulder towards men. I guess the mind of a feminist zealot is not capable enough to fit in them other things in life.What you have to realise is that you have a major problem if you dwell and obsess over female issues and misogyny as misogynists (the people you dwell and obsess over) also have major problems. I sure wouldn’t want to hang with someone who is like this no matter what direction this is going, either for it to be feminist or Men’s Rights. The zealots like the people in this blog and at the other side of the fence need serious help."Don't worry, Nick. You'll be a Feminist soon enough. You can't stay perched up on that fence forever, and fence-sitters tend to fall on the safe side of the fence, in the end.
>So you agree with everything those two posted about women Forweg?
>One particularly irritating thing that NWO and other MRAs constantly do is refer to Title IX like it is the root of all evil. Title IX reads:"No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.."Sounds quite sinister, doesn't it?
>Wow, I must live a cloistered life. I had no idea that imbeciles actually put their woman-hatred up on the internet like that. Of course, NWOslave is also a rightwing nutjob as well. How surprising.
>forweg, GlobalMan is Peter Nolan, right? I gather that at one point he was banned, but he's back and posting like a madman, and mostly getting lots of upvotes. Also: stuff posted a year ago is somehow not fair game for me? You'd better tell that to NWOslave here, who is still blaming feminists today for shit Andrea Dworkin said in the 70s.
>Have you heard of any of them celebrating The Screwfly Solution David? Especially since that Peter Nolan person seems to think this is the best solution for all of his ills.
>Dammit. Internet ate my post. Anyway, I actually saw that a week or so ago; it's pretty good in a Twilight Zone sort of way. It's based on a story by sci-fi writer James Tiptree Jr., which was actually the pseudonym of Alice Sheldon, who wrote as a man so as to get her stories taken seriously by the not-exactly-enlightened male editors of the sci-fi magazines at the time. (And this was not in the 30s or 40s; this was actually in the late 60s and 70s.) She had a very strange life, which included trips into the jungles of the Congo as a child with her gorilla hunting/studying parents, and a later stint in the CIA. A friend of mine is reading a biography of her. http://www.julie-phillips.com/africa.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Tiptree,_Jr.
>"So you agree with everything those two posted about women Forweg?"No, I don't. But I feel no particular need to renounce them, either. Why should I?Sentiments such as theirs are an inevitable consequence of feminism. Misandry breeds misogyny.
>Forweg…I am not a feminist either. I just think that the MRAs are giving the rest of the men in the world a bad name and that women should be treated as equals to men. Dave really hasn't asked for anything out of the ordinary for women (albeit in fancy words)
>Man, I am on the fence about the whole feminists vs MRAs thing, but even I find that shit repugnant and scary. Both the women and the men.
>@HollyDon't forget, In Mala Fide is filled with "giant racists too" thus producing a two headed attack on attractiveness to women (Sexist and Racist) Sure there maybe women who are racist too but you are better off chatting up women on the Stormfront. Ironically they are quite likely to like the whole "I am a dumb thug, hear me smack bitches and whine loudly about the darkies" attitude that a lot of MRAs have. They have the same "if women don't like me there must be something wrong with them" attitude.
>NWO has just demonstrated that he knows as little about Marxism as he does about feminism, the law, history, anthropology, or any other part of reality.PS NWO, we have already debunked most of the claims you have just made on other threads. Sheer volume of ridiculous crap does not make it worthy or profound.
>I am not a feminist either. I just think that the MRAs are giving the rest of the men in the world a bad name and that women should be treated as equals to men. Don't worry Avicenna, most feminists are quite aware that reactionary misogynists aren't representative of all men…I do have to say, though, this is the second time in three days that someone has said "I'm not a feminist… I just want women to have equal rights." Leading me to ask–which is it? If you want women to have equal rights… well, that's feminism, in a nutshell. Maybe you don't agree with specific policy positions associated with feminism, like, say, mandatory paid parental leave, but that doesn't make you a not-feminist. It's like saying, "I'm not a supporter of the Civil Rights Movement, I just think black people should be able to eat at any restaurant they like, and vote freely, and not be denied housing or jobs because of their race…" What's stopping you from identifying as a supporter?
>Wasn't Ion flouncing on another topic? Why is he still here?