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| Women in groups: Always trouble. |
One of the strangest places in the burly world of Men’s Rightsers and MGTOWers is The Spearhead’s Shieldmaidens forum. And no, I am not making that name up. It’s a forum, essentially, for women interested in being a sort of Women’s Auxiliary to a bunch of guys who are all about hating women.
Given that such a role – trying to help dudes who don’t much like you or your whole gender — is a bit of a tricky one, the forum moderator Hestia has written a long introductory post explaining just what new gals should and shouldn’t do to support their menfolk. It’s kind of a masterpiece of doublespeak. Let’s look at some of its highlights.
Hestia starts out by warning the ladies that these rough men sometimes talk in a rough manner:
As this is a male environment, us girls can expect styles of communication that we might not use ourselves or readily relate to. For the purpose of this post, I will call all of this “locker room talk”. … Topics and expressions women may find crude are likely to occur and generalizations about women (or white, western, whatever) used to adequately get a point across. These differences, while bothersome to some women, are not wrong in and of themselves and are not reason to shame men into expressing themselves differently. As women in the locker room, we are the ones who need to look the other [way] and make accommodations; not the men for whom this website is for.
In other words: the guys here may call you sluts and whores and worse, but really, that’s your fault for being here in the first place, so don’t complain.
Welcome aboard!
Hestia continues:
We must also respect this place as one of the few politically incorrect sanctuaries that men have in today’s misandrist world. … We should not be bullying men into saying, “yes, indeed not all women are like that!” to appease our own egos. … This is sacred male friendly ground and should be treated as such. … We are but guests on this website and must know our place and respect certain boundaries for the sake of the men here and for the work towards gender peace.
Hard to be more abject than this. So how have the menfolk responded?
It appears that not too many men actually read the Shieldmaidens forum, but among those who do, the reaction has been a little less than enthusiastic. Our friend GlobalMan, one of the more excitable Spearhead regulars, basically tells her (and all women) to fuck off entirely:
I have voiced my opinion many times women should be banned all together from here. They are contributing nothing and they are taking up a lot of time and energy of the stupid young men who do not realise that women are just attention whores who won’t actually do anything at the end of the day. ….You women pretty much fuck up everything you stick your nose into. And you never, ever tire of fucking things up for men under the delusion you have ‘something to contribute’. You don’t. Get over it. You pop out babies. That is your one and only ‘claim to fame’ and it used to be enough for a man to love a woman for her whole life and to provide for her and the kids. Now it is not. So you women need to ‘act like men’ and suck it up.Indeed. If women had any class at all you would leave of your own accord and let the men sort out what you refused to. The only posts from women here should be ‘Men, please tell us what to do’.
A fellow calling himself Diogenes offers his two cents:
That Hestia has to write this thread proves that indeed women who come to this board do exactly that which she complains against. They have such a cozy and male-coddled life that they are shocked when some men rightly express their scorn and foul language towards their attitudes and manipulative behaviour. Women BREED misogyny because all they do is constantly manipulate and get the attention and protection of men by trying to look sexy all the time. Every time a man turns his head towards a pretty lady, she knows she is being looked after and will be rescued by a man if ever her poor little ass does something stupid. They are CHILDREN at heart. One female college student mentioned to me how according to her “every girl” has gone on dates just to get free dinners. How much more proof do we need that women are NO GOOD WHORES?
I guess that’s some of the “locker room talk” Hestia was warning the ladies about.
Granted, it’s been awhile since I’ve seen the inside of a locker room, but I don’t remember much of the talk in the locker rooms I’ve been in revolving around the no-good whorishness of all women. I think that might be because most men are not in fact hateful assholes who think all women are NO GOOD WHORES.That’s just a theory though.
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>I think Hestia is a bit delusional if she truly believes there is any chance at all of achieving "gender peace" with those hateful creeps. Not sure why she would even bother trying.
>What on earth do you have to do to NOT count as a stupid whore for these people?
>@OzymandiasBe born as a man, obviously.
>Speaking of doublespeak, it boggles the mind that a group of men who bemoan women's supposed lack of accomplishments, and some of whom assert that women better suck up to men because they're physically weaker, would have a portion of their board named after a class of female warriors.Also, next time someone argues that MRAs don't hate women as a group, link them to this post.Now I'm going to go think about how awesome Éowyn (the context in which I learned the word "shieldmaiden") is.
>*yawn*I am sure if me or any man showed as much obsession over misandrists, I would get told to get a life and stop dwelling over how awful women are.
>I believe Hestia is married to another moderator on The Spearhead forum. Maybe her writing is a response to years of emotional abuse and brainwashing. Maybe this is her way of coping with living her daily life with an MRA. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em?Note: I would probably still try and beat 'em.
>This one made me laugh:Women BREED misogyny because all they do is constantly manipulate and get the attention and protection of men by trying to look sexy all the time.As usual, Flight of the Conchords has a lyric for just such an occasion:I gotta tell her how hot she isBut if I tell her how hot she is she'll think I'm being sexistShe's so hot, she's making me sexist… bitch
>nicko81m said… *yawn* I am sure if me or any man showed as much obsession over misandrists, I would get told to get a life and stop dwelling over how awful women are.Nick, get a life and stop dwelling on how awful women are.There–happy now?
>“Nick, get a life and stop dwelling on how awful women are.”For one, I am not an MRA and I don't hangout in MRA sites.Secondly, I am not a feminist; the only feminist site I even bother to look at (more than a few times) is this one.Thirdly, 99 percent of the time, I am not hanging in this site.Which all means that I am not dwelling and obsessing over misandry/misogyny like the feminist zealots here and the MRA zealots in them sites.Why aren’t I dwelling and obsessing over this? *drums rolling*…..because I have a life.Having a life means I have other things/multiple things on my mind and agenda which involves being off of this blog and off of the internet altogether.Being a feminist zealot would be a very sad sheltered life. Nearly 99 percent of things that are cruising around in your mind are poor women wahhh, misogyny wahhhh. But what about the other things in this whole world? Surprise, surprise, there are actually things to feel happy about it. But feminist zealots seem to be very unhappy and depressed people. Not to mention, they have a serious chip on their shoulder towards men. I guess the mind of a feminist zealot is not capable enough to fit in them other things in life.What you have to realise is that you have a major problem if you dwell and obsess over female issues and misogyny as misogynists (the people you dwell and obsess over) also have major problems. I sure wouldn’t want to hang with someone who is like this no matter what direction this is going, either for it to be feminist or Men’s Rights. The zealots like the people in this blog and at the other side of the fence need serious help.
>I have to say I think it's possible to be a feminist zealot (I am a proud, proud, flagrant, radical feminist) AND lead a happy and normal life. I have a career in the arts (I'm self-employed), I work out, I visit my family, I watch $2 movies on Tuesdays with my *gasp* feminist boyfriend, and I have extremely interest conversations with other flagrantly feminist people. It's a great and happy life I lead 🙂
>Nicky, I'd say something to you, but it wouldn't make a difference.
>And yet you comment here every day, Nick. Isn't it a little late to pull the cynical "I'm above it all" routine now?
>Okay, what I'm really not getting is the characterization of Manboobz as a radical feminist site. It mostly just has quotes from MRA blogs. Sure they're not flattering quotes, but it's hard to find flattering quotes–I'd say the quotes David pulls are pretty representative.So why do these same quotes, pulled with fairly little commentary, but recontextualized for entertainment and criticism, suddenly become the most extreme feminism ever? I suspect David is a feminist, but he doesn't even really talk about that here. He just reposts what MRAs are saying.If quotes of your own words strike you as vicious mockery of your cause… maybe it's time to rethink your cause.
>You beat me to it Captain.For someone so disdainful of feminists he spends a lot of time here.
>there's a simple reason why women try to appease sexist men. It's because they want to meld with the world and they (misguidedly) feel that by pandering to these type of men that they are going to get ahead. I sexy ozymandias's statement. Any MRA's are once again welcome to respond to the question of what would make a woman acceptable in their eyes.
>What's funny is that when Hestia pretends that women are the privileged ones and men the unprivileged, she ends up with an almost reasonable disclaimer.Now if the MRAs would reverse the genders maybe they'd realize why their constant whining on feminist blogs is so tiresome.
>So, a woman who sees a bunch of men who are misogynistic to the core tries to appease them?That's like giving your own leg to a Great White Shark to calm it down.
>@Holly…These are quotes from your leaders not just mere commentors."All men are rapists and that's all they are"– Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.)"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." – Catherine Comins"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." –Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001."The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." — Sally Miller Gearhart"You grow up with your father holding you down and covering your mouth so another man can make a horrible searing pain between your legs."– Catherine MacKinnon (Prominent legal feminist scholar; University of Michigan, & Yale"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist" — Ti-Grace Atkinson"Men love death. In everything they make, they hollow out a central place for death, let its rancid smell contaminate every dimension of whatever still survives. Men especially love murder. In art they celebrate it, and in life they commit it. They embrace murder as if life without it would be devoid of passion, meaning, and action, as if murder were solace, stilling their sobs as they mourn the emptiness and alienation of their lives."– Andrea Dworkin Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." — Andrea Dworkin"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." — Andrea Dworkin"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." — Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor."The nuclear family must be destroyed… Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process." — Linda Gordon"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." — Robin Morgan"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it."– Barbara Jordan; Former Congresswoman. These are State officials, professors of higher acedemia, ms magazine editor and others in positions of power to make law. And these are just a scant few. If quotes of your own leaders strike you as vicious mockery of your cause… maybe it's time to rethink your cause. Silly me, thinking feminism was a Marxist hate ideology designed to destroy the family and transfer all social, economic and political power from men to women with the State as the ultimate authority. I guess you can always pick and choose what tastey fruits you wish to pick from the feminist tree while claiming innocence.
>Hey heres some more of your leaders"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release."– Germaine Greer. "Men's sexuality is mean and violent, and men so powerful that they can 'reach WITHIN women to ****/construct us from the inside out.' Satan-like, men possess women, making their wicked fantasies and desires women's own. A woman who has sex with a man, therefore, does so against her will, 'even if she does not feel forced.'– Judith Levine"All men are good for is ****ing, and running over with a truck".Statement made by A University of Maine Feminist Administrator"The ****ing Molesters Society". (Miami Herald, April 3, 1995) The ACAA is a lobbying group, which includes Ellen Bass (co-author of THE COURAGE TO HEAL), and Rene Frederickson, leading feminist psychotherapist"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage" (feminist leader Sheila Cronan"Overthrowing capitalism is too small for us. We must overthrow the whole…patriarch!" (Gloria Steinem, radical feminist leader, editor of MS magazine"In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them" (Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College"The most merciful thing a large family can to do one of its infant members is to kill it." (Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned ParenthoodI can go on and on. First of all you do realize we don't live under a capitolist anymore right? How silly of you if thats what you think. Lets see the goals of all your upstanding leaders. Destroy the family, transfer all social, political and economic wealth from men to women. The Marxist State we live in is the ultimate authority. Hmmm, sounds familiar.
>Another quote list to pull apart! I'll place a wager right now (without checking) that at least half of these are from before 1990.
>Actually, funny story: I do pick and choose which tasty fruits I pick from the feminist tree. I don't hold with every woman who ever used the "feminist" label. That's not cheating or being evasive. That's critical thinking.The problem with the MRM is not that you have lunatic misogynists in your ranks. Every sufficiently large movement has distasteful people saying terrible things in its name. The problem with the MRM is:1) Those lunatic misogynists seem to be your current popular leaders. The places you currently see a lot of mainstream feminists–Feministe, Feministing, Jezebel, Bitch Magazine, etc.–are pretty damn short on man-hating.Whereas the main MRM sites (The Spearhead, In Mala Fide, reddit/mensrights) seem to be about nothing but woman-hating. Hell, advocating for men often seems like Priority 2, coming well after advocating against women.2) The lunatic misogynists never seem to catch any flack from your side. Jezebel ran a post just today that went a little too easy (not approving of it, but just not disapproving ENOUGH) on an anti-male video game (http://jezebel.com/#!5793232/choke-and-tase-your-boyfriend-in-charming-video-game), and you can see that their commenters absolutely POUNCED on them for it. This was not something Jezebel commenters were going to let slide. Misandry within feminism gets called out.Where are the Spearhead commenters saying "well, yeah, I agree that men get a shit deal and deserve better from society, but you went way too far there, man"? I don't see a lot, and when one does speak up, they get horrendously shouted down.3) Y'all could learn some plain old MANNERS. I think MRAs are misogynists–that's not an insult so much as a descriptor–but I don't refer to them as "MRAtard hate bastard monsters" every time I talk, because that's just a little too… frotthy, you know? Your movement could use, at an absolute minimum, some serious de-frothing.
>Hey heres a little dillema for you. Since women now recieve 56% of all college degrees you would think Title IX would go away, right?Not so, in fact it's tentacles are reaching ever further. Title IX is now above the law with its own far reaching powers. Innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? Not if you're a man. The new standard is "preponderance of evidence." In other words a womans word will get any man booted from college. Sweet huh? http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2011/apr/13/univ-to-revise-sexual-misconduct-policies/As for the false wage gap it seems women make more than men, because if you don't pay them more or promote them faster they sue from "sexism." Also more men are unemployed than women, yaaaaay. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704415104576250672504707048.htmlSo if women make more than men and are getting more college degree's you'd think Affirmative Action and Title IX would go away, right? Oh no they'll be getting oodles of billions of extra dollars and more power for the State to incarcerate men, well cockadoodledoo.So much more I could leave you with but hwo about that fine woman from the Duke Lacrosse Case. She up and knifes hey boyfriend to death. Awww but don't worry, she'll claim, oooh, I don't, know PMS or bi polar disease. That bi polar thingy is the flavor of the year for women right now. Don't fret you can all rally to the cause, I'm sure you can get her 2 years of "help" in a mental spa. Funny when men need help we send them to prison.Men are Imperfect Women. Men are Broken.Men are the burgiousse oppressor class.Women are the peasant victim class.Man =Bad.Woman = Good.
>Thanks for the quote from Andrea Dworkin. I had been wondering if we should disavow her, given the obvious man-hatred that is always referred to. But here you are supplying a really valid quote, that explains much of the hatred we see on the spearhead site. The men who long to kill women (the V3NOM quote, the quote from Peter Andrew Nolan) are explained perfectly by her. A beautifully written bulls-eye:"They embrace murder as if life without it would be devoid of passion, meaning, and action, as if murder were solace, stilling their sobs as they mourn the emptiness and alienation of their lives."– Andrea Dworkin
>@Holly…Funny story, Marxist also picked and chose what they liked as they murdered 20 million Ukrainian peasants. Incarcerated innocent men who dared to disagree with their hate movement all on a Marxists word. I wonder what the outcome of this fun little social experiment will be?
>Hey, do you ever wonder what exactly is a restraining order? It's when a woman calls up for one, she doesn't even have to go in person, it's a phone call away to get a man barred from his own home. The State gives out over 3 million of these a year.It seems once a man is given one of these he is banned from his own home or domicile if you will. Theres no trial, no nothing. Just the State enforcing a law written, lobbyed and passed by feminists. Yet again more power for the State given to women. It all sounds quite Marxist, doesn't it?