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| An Imaginary Feminist in action. |
There’s a great post up on The Pervocracy inspired by, well, some of the more lovable characters who frequent the comments section on this little blog – our resident antifeminists. As Holly notes, the feminists posting here devote much of their time (naturally enough) to arguing for feminism, while the MRA types, by contrast, tend to argue against an imaginary enemy that only bears a vague passing resemblance to actual feminism. Holly sets forth the tenets of this imaginary feminism, or IF, as she’s managed to glean them from the comments by MRA types here.
IF, she notes, is monolithic:
Anything said by anyone calling themselves a feminist can be assumed to be true of anyone else calling themselves a feminist. Some random thing Andrea Dworkin said in 1973 is tattooed on all IF’s chests backward so they can read it in the mirror. All IFs simultaneously subscribe to the beliefs of Valerie Solanas, Catharine McKinnon, Betty Dodson, Phyllis Schlafly, Twisty Faster, and that person who wrote those weird articles about Firefly.
Imaginary Feminists have no real grievances, are eager to take rights away from men, love shaming men, and are simultaneously sex-hating puritans and sex-obsessed sluts.
In other words, they are dastardly creatures indeed. If they really existed, I would oppose them too.
The post is hilarious and spot-on in its critiques. Well worth reading.
EDIT: Link fixed.
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>Also, I'm sure Eliza Doaslittleaspossible will appreciate the shoutout.
>Also, too: why can't the English teach their children how to speak? Answer me that, feminists!
>"Men are so honest, so thoroughly square;Eternally noble, historically fair."So, all those big wigs on Wall Street must have been influenced by their devilish wives. Hitler wouldn't have turned out the way he was if it weren't for the wimminz? Frankly, when I look back on history, I don't see this 'eternally noble and fair' so much as wars, crime, and oppression.Also, I'd like to add an echo to this line:"Men are so pleasant, so easy to please. (Just as long as women are servicing their every need)"
>Also, too: why can't the English teach their children how to speak? Answer me that, feminists!That's a good point too. The Hebrews learn theirs backwards, and that's just frightening! Why can't the English learn to speak?
>Ion: "The sun shines out of men's asses." (summarized, not directly quoted)I want to point out that Ion has attacked both men and women. Women are useless evil harpies in his view, and men are emotionless and unloving. What, men might want affection and attention from their lovers and might actually care about them? Blasphemy he says!
>Ion: "The sun shines out of men's asses".Then if I mooned you it should be called "sunning" instead? Better grab those shades then because, as George Harrison said, here comes the sun…
>Quoting a musical doesn't count. Unless you're happy to have My Fair Lady do your thinking for you. Just admit, Ion, that you hate women. Own your misogyny. At least the racists in the KKK and Christian Identity movements are out and proud about their hatred, why can't misogynists be up front about the fact that they just don't like women at all? I wonder if it's because the racists aren't attracted to other races the same way a misogynist is still attracted to women. Being up front and out about your hatred of all things female is pretty much giving up all hope of sex without paying your partner directly for her time (and she'd probably be able to pick up on the fact you hate her, too, so there go your chances at being a repeat client).
>My god, you really are a one-note pony aren't you. Ok, how about this: Out of the stuff I've said here so far, show me the parts which make it clear that I hate women – all women. Oh, and "You're a misogynist because you disagree with me" doesn't count.
>Why don't you just come out and say "I respect women as people just like me" right now? Then there's no quote hunt, it's on record! Seems easy enough.
>@IonYou seem to have this ridiculous idea that so many good traits are inherent in men while so many bad traits are inherent in women.
>Then prove me wrong, Ion. Describe to me, in your own words, the sort of woman whose company you would enjoy and seek out. Or at least give your approval of.
>Ion:Many people on this message board have asked you many direct questions that can be answered clearly and simply. And yet you either don't respond to those posts at all, or you quote show tunes.Can you please just answer one of them? Any one?
>Likewise, all the MRA bluster about false rape accusations has the ultimate goal of making the world safer for rapists.Let's be fair and give them the benefit of the doubt–it has the effect of making the world safer for rapists, whether that's the goal or not.
>I remember having quite a civil discussion with you, before you proved it was just a waste of time by not really listening to anything I was trying to say(Lady Vic)Interestingly enough I had a similar feeling, though you may not have been one of commenters who was insulting, it happened none the less.
>Actually, I was listening. I listened closely to your concerns about the use of the word 'patriarchy', and took the time to explain to you that it didn't mean 'all men', and that feminists used the word to refer to a system, not a gender. Then there was a bizarre discussion about abuse and how you don't feel validated by strangers on the Internet about your own experiences with abuse. Then you returned back to bitching about feminists using the word 'patriarchy.'
>One of the articles my fellow countryman Nick linked to ended with this quote:Dr Michael Flood is a domestic violence researcher from the University of Wollongong.He says the men's group is muddying the debate."The group's complaint is not motivated by a genuine concern for male victims of violence. I think that it's motivated more by political agendas," he said.MRA's – reading from the same page the all over the world
>Lady VicI remember you not hearing me about how patriarchy is used by feminists to make claims about men specifically(not a system). Neither did you hear me when I tried to point out that some feminists think feminism is about women specifically(not a system). Obviously you are not one of them but they do exist, on here, and elsewhere. Alas, maybe we both need a course on communicating better. I guess I wont Bitch anymore about some of the double speak I see out here.
>Why don't you just come out and say "I respect women as people just like me" right now? Then there's no quote hunt, it's on record! Seems easy enough.I respect individuals, not "women", "men" or "people" as a monolithic unit. I respect those whom I consider worthy of respect. So far it's been slim pickings, let me tell you. But overall, I would not say I hold women in less regard than I do men, or anyone really. Again, if you think you can prove the contrary, stop deflecting and quote away.You seem to have this ridiculous idea that so many good traits are inherent in men while so many bad traits are inherent in women.I said that? Which traits?Many people on this message board have asked you many direct questions that can be answered clearly and simply. And yet you either don't respond to those posts at all, or you quote show tunes.Can you please just answer one of them? Any one?I'm sorry cboye, the questions must have gotten drowned out by the flood of verbal sewage directed at me from the keyboards of your esteemed fellow commenters. You'll understand if I didn't peruse their attacks and insults carefully to see whether there were legitimate questions hiding among the refuse. If you have any specific ones, restate them now and I'll address them.Then prove me wrong, Ion. Describe to me, in your own words, the sort of woman whose company you would enjoy and seek out. Or at least give your approval of.At this point I would normally say I'm not here to play by your rules, but what the hell. A woman whose company I'd seek would have to be smart enough to have a mind of her own, reasonably witty without being snarky, able to hold a conversation, have a sense of humor which yet tends towards the gentle rather than the mean-spirited, and have an artistic talent of some kind without being conceited about it. In other words, pretty much the opposite of most people I've met here. Hope that answers your question. 🙂
>I see my last comment's been deleted. I'm a bit surprised as I didn't think it was particularly offensive. Anyway, I guess Mr. Futrelle finally shows his true colors. So long, it's been fun.
>I remember you not hearing me about how patriarchy is used by feminists to make claims about men specifically(not a system). Neither did you hear me when I tried to point out that some feminists think feminism is about women specifically(not a system). Oh, T4T, you "weren't heard." How terrible for you. Except you're a liar, because that's not what happened at all. In fact, you were being heard quite clearly. It's just that your unsupported allegations about what some vague, non-defined group of anonymous imaginary feminists think or do is irrelevant to the discussion. Unless you can provide some specific quotes to the objectionable things those feminists say or do, and explain why their contributions are more important than the academic works of well-respected scholars in the field, your whinging about "some feminists" is just self-serving sophistry and a transparent attempt to dodge the issue, which is your inability to understand and correctly use the word "patriarchy."
>T4T can't tell the difference between "LA LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" and "I heard you quite well, it's just that you're dead wrong."Which is telling.
>What SallyStrange said. And sometimes, feminists *do* talk about men and women, because even though its a system that's to blame, we're all people caught up in the same system and making our choices based on what we've been taught by it. And feminists *are* trying to make life better for women, and it's a rather selfish demand to insist that they make life better for men, too, or it proves they don't care about men. It's like insisting that you can only be a member of Greenpeace as long as you give Sierra Club equal time as well. Or like insisting that you can't be a good Democrat unless you help make life easier for the Republicans or Libertarians, too. Different feminists have different things they'd like to see. Some feminists work the hardest to change the fashion industry's ridiculous and unhealthy standards; some feminists are working to get women ordained by religious organizations; lots of feminists are working to ensure women have access to things like pap smears and birth control. These things do not affect men with the same severity they affect women, so insisting that they have to spend an equal amount of time on men's issues is ridiculous, selfish and definitely in bad faith.
>Lady Vic: thought you'd be interested to know I'd actually answered your question, but my post was deleted. Weird, huh? It's almost like people can attack me but I'm no longer allowed to reply back… where have I seen that tactic before… oh yeah, feminist blogs. So anyway, I'm outta here.
>Are you sure it isn't just stuck in the moderation queue? David has a pretty liberal commenting policy, I seriously doubt he'd delete a reply made in good faith (or even bad faith) unless it violated said policy.
>"Why don't you just come out and say "I respect women as people just like me" right now? Then there's no quote hunt, it's on record! Seems easy enough."It's interesting how feminists demand all women to be respected as a group, regardless of their individual actions. The concept of individuality obviously no place in feminism.I respect no woman or man until they've earned my respect.