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| Note: Girlfriend pillows are not actual girlfriends. |
Men Going Their Own Way have some problems with sex. One of the biggest? Despite their best efforts to totally and completely avoid women — which some reason always seems to involve spending hours online every day talking about women — sometimes it will somehow come to pass that hapless MGTOWers will find themselves actually having sex with a woman. As you might imagine, this experience may not be altogether pleasant for either party involved. Indeed, in my most recent post, I quoted one poor non-virgin MGTOWer who declared that “having sex with a woman is like humping a moist pillow: It doesn’t join in and you can hardly tell the difference.”
What this young man has described is not “sex” so much as “really, really bad sex.” Fortunately, it can be prevented! The most obvious way, already hit upon by many MGTOWers, is to not have sex with women at all. If you despise and resent the entire female gender, it is probably best to not get naked with individual members of that gender. The women of the world will be happy to go along with you on this point, trust me.
But on the off chance that some MGTOWers might be willing to dial down their woman-hatred enough to actually contemplate sex with women, I would like to offer some tips on how to improve the experience for everyone.
First, to make absolutely sure that sex won’t come to resemble “humping a moist pillow,” make sure that your sexual partner is not, in fact, a moist pillow.
This is a simple fix, and one that is often overlooked.
If your partner is not actually a pillow but a live human woman, well, I will now give the floor to Ozymandias, who recently posted an extremely helpful list of suggestions in the comments here. Here it is again for anyone who might have missed it::
OZYMANDIAS SEX EDUCATION TIEMZ GO!So all the sex you’ve had with women, Zaku, has vaguely resembled fucking a moist pillow. I understand and empathize with your sadness about your sex life. However, young padawan, there are methods of solving this.
*Are all of your partners virgins or in high school? Virgins and high schoolers are terrible at sex, particularly if both are inexperienced. I personally was on my third partner before I was any good in bed.
FIX: Find your local cougar, slut or sexually assertive woman.
*Was your partner someone with sexual hang-ups? Slut-shaming often makes women think that enthusiasm makes them “bad girls”, and ideas of men-earning-sex often make women think that lying there is their contribution to sex.
FIX: Have sex with feminists.
*Are you simply not that good in bed? This is a common problem among inexperienced men, and can lead to women not enjoying sex because it is not that enjoyable.
FIX: Learn the location of the clit (with an anatomy chart, if necessary). Listen to her instructions about sex. If she’s moaning, KEEP DOING THAT. Try to give her at least one orgasm before you stick your dick in (be reasonable, if she’s begging “stick it in me”, go ahead, but it’s a good guideline). Suck it up about the taste and learn to love eating pussy. Make sure you give her adequate foreplay (AT LEAST five minutes). Touch and kiss parts of her besides her breasts and pussy. Most of all, confidence and joy, confidence and joy. [Editor’s Note: As briget has noted in the comments, if you really, really don’t like the taste of pussy, you can always use a dental dam; google the term if you don’t know what that is.]
*Was your partner very, very drunk? Bad sign. Sober people participate more.
FIX: If she’s passed out or puking, don’t fuck her.
*Was your partner freezing up, softly repeating “no, no, no”, or otherwise clearly not enjoying herself? Then you may have had what is technically referred to as “nonconsensual sex,” or by us Femicunt Queens of Nofunnington, “rape.”
FIX: Seek affirmative, enthusiastic consent. This is shown by her, for example, ripping off your clothes, chanting “yes”, sucking your cock without being asked, etc. If you are confused if she is consenting, feel free to ask “do you want to (have sex, make out, have me suck your tits, etc.)?” If you hear words like “no” and “stop,” STOP IMMEDIATELY.OZYMANDIAS SEX EDUCATION TIEMZ OVER.
Generally speaking, this is good advice for all inexperienced hetero dudes interested in improving their sex lives and the sex lives of their partners. (PROTIP: Improving the sex life of your partner will dramatically improve your sex life too.) With a few changes in wording to reflect different anatomies, as Oz herself points out, this is also good advice for straight women, gay women, gay men, trans men and women, bisexuals, and everyone else who is interested in having sex with some subset of their fellow human beings.
Just to reiterate one point: no one is a sexual expert from the get-go. There’s no shame in sexual inexperience. But it is sort of a douchebag move to blame the entire opposite sex for bad sex if you don’t know what the fuck you are doing in bed. It takes some time, and some actual giving-a-shit-about-what-the-other-person-likes in order to get good at it. Generally speaking, if you like and respect your sexual partners, gaining this experience and expertise should be a highly enjoyable endeavor. Even if you don’t yet have much in the way of skills, a little bit of enthusiasm can go a long way. Also: you’re allowed to actually ask the other person what he or she likes and doesn’t like. This can prevent all sorts of awkwardness and encourage all sorts of fun sexy times.
Which brings us to another point worth reiterating: if there’s no shame in sexual inexperience, there’s no shame in sexual experience either. Sexually inexperienced women don’t know what they’re doing any more than sexually inexperienced guys do. So, guys, if you want to get with women who actually do know what they are doing, don’t look down on women for having sexual experience. If you’re a slut shamer, you basically have no right to complain if your partners are bad in bed. If you’re one of those dickheads who thinks women all become hags the instant they hit 25, or 30, guess what: you’ve ruled out having sex with the overwhelming majority of the women who are actually really really good at it.
And while we’re at it: Taking the time to sit down and read about sexual techniques can speed up the process of getting good at sex enormously. If you don’t know how to find the g-spot, well, here you go. You’re welcome. Lots more useful shit here and here, along with plenty of suggestions for awesome sexy-time book learnin. If you think you’re somehow above reading about sex, well, too bad: that’s what you’ve just been doing!
If after all this you find that your partner is still lying there like a moist pillow, and you’ve ruled out sexual hangups, sexual inexperience and/or less-than-enthusiastic consent, there are a few other possibilities to look at:
1) She (or he) might be having libido problems because of depression – or due to side effects of depression meds – or for some other medical or biological reason. Time to see a doctor.
2) She (or he) might be asexual. Some people just aren’t into sex. You’ll have to figure out yourselves what this means for your relationship. And that might mean: no more relationship. If you’re really into sex, and partner isn’t, neither one of you is doing the other a favor by sticking around.
3) She (or he) might actually be a selfish asshole. Selfish assholes tend to suck at sex. Try not to have sex with them. And don’t blame their entire gender for it. And if you’re a selfish asshole, try not to have sex with anyone yourself.
Feel free to share your own tips (and links) in the comments. Learning more about sex and sexuality = good for everybody.
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*Yes, that was a Bioshock reference.
>"To say men and women think differently sexually isn't some heresy to be quashed."No, it's just ludicrously simplistic. PEOPLE think differently sexually and to suggest that the differences can be drawn strictly in stark lines according to gender is foolish. But then again I believe you're the fool that was comparing pregnancy to someone being hooked up to an IV in a previous thread, so it's not surprising.
>@MertvayaRuka…How is saying men and women are different misogynistic?@cboye…this is what a agreed with,"the more times you have sex with the same person, the better your sex with that person is likely to be."
>NWOslave, let me understand this: you're spending time on the internet complaining that women like rich movie stores more than sanitation workers but you claim that not you're not young? Okay, then. I… I stand corrected.As for your posts not having any MRA "taint," I will just respectfully disagree.As for your more salient point, you didn't simply state that men and women are different. Everyone knows that men and women are different and there's very little that's controversial about that statement. You made a declarative and all inclusive statement about what turns on men and women. When you say something like "that's just the nature of men and women," you aren't even allowing yourself the wiggle-room of a qualifier. Like, you know, "most," or "many," or the vast majority.I'm not calling out your post because you said that men and women are different. I'm calling out your post because you don't know what you're talking about.
>@ NWOslaveOh, here's the reference for the yoai and bishies. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Bishonenhttp://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YaoiGuysAlso, TV Tropes will ruin your life.
>I simply can't understand your revulsion at the thought of men and women being different.If near 100% of visual porn is purchased by men and near 100% of literature porn is purchased by women, this clearly indicates a difference in what arouses men and women.
>Why is this conversation veering away from yaoi? I love yaoi! Anyone have any recommendations?
>Never mind, tawaen beat me to it. But the main link you're looking for is:Boys Love
>So NWOslave what about women who enjoy seeing two guys fucking? There's a lot of us. Signed.Yaoi fangirl
>If near 100% of visual porn is purchased by men and near 100% of literature porn is purchased by women, this clearly indicates a difference in what arouses men and women. Seriously, dude, statements like this are almost painfully stupid. First of all: internets. Who is still purchasing porn? How are you tracking who is watching/streaming/downloading porn? What possible methodology are you using to determine that "near 100%" of visual porn is is being consumed, exclusively, by men. Because all the men you know watch porn? Nearly all the women I know watch porn. So there you go. Are we going to pretend that along with photographs, magazines like Penthouse and Hustler and literally hundreds of others didn't contain tons of unillustrated erotica. Seriously. A "Letter to Penthouse" is such a common trope it's referenced in everything from sex columns to sit-coms. Men have written and consumed erotic literature for centuries.You just don't know what you're talking about.Please. Stop.
>I bet if more porn were made with women's fantasies and desires in mind, more women would watch porn.
>"She (or he) might be having libido problems because of depression – or due to side effects of depression meds – or for some other medical or biological reason. Time to see a doctor."Putting in a word for other solutions here that also generally apply to libido mismatch… lack of investment in sexual fidelity, open relationships to various degrees, finding sexual ways of being together that don't necessarily involve both partners being orgasm-directed (e.g. one partner masturbating in front of the other, cuddling, watching sexy movies), cultivating positive masturbation habits…
>"You may be mistaking immaturity for youth there. And I personally don't feel bad for people like him because similar to racism, there comes a point where the person espousing this misogynistic shit has to consciously start blocking out information that contradicts their chosen position."You may very well be right. But, you know, I also feel bad for certain kinds of racists and usually try to reason with them as well.
>" cultivating positive masturbation habits…"Bleah. I said that stupidly. I meant integrating masturbation into the relationship in a positive way (which is probably important in every case, but maybe especially so with libido mismatch)
>NWOSlave: Because, uh, we're not THAT different. Even if on average men and women are different from each other (iirc, cross-culturally, men have more upper body strength, women have more pain tolerance; men tend to be more physically aggressive; someone has higher verbal ability but I can't remember who and my gender studies notes are hiding) that doesn't mean all women are different from all men. A female Olympic athlete will have more upper body strength than a male couch potato. Essentially, it's academic to say "women this" or "men that"; what matters is each individual person. And slash is awesome. Wincest represent! (fistbump)
>Also: Rachel, you are awesome and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
>"@MertvayaRuka…How is saying men and women are different misogynistic?"You're not just saying that. You're making unsupportable absolutist claims about what men women are attracted to and then implying that it is a defect inherent to women. You're making it sound like there's a small specific subset of men all women are attracted to and then further claiming it as being some kind of planned injustice against men who don't fit in that subset. You bring up groups of men (sanitation workers and such) solely to claim that they're looked at as some kind of "untouchable" caste by women when the real world does not bear this out. You're conflating women not wanting random guys yelling "NICE TITS!" at them from job sites with women turning labor-class men down for dates."I simply can't understand your revulsion at the thought of men and women being different.If near 100% of visual porn is purchased by men and near 100% of literature porn is purchased by women, this clearly indicates a difference in what arouses men and women." Near 100% of that statement was pulled directly out of your ass. Learn to read better, we're not "revolted" by the idea of men and women being different, we just find the idea that men and women are never turned on by the same things to be ridiculously simplistic and silly. On the contrary, it seems to be you that are revolted by the idea that men and women could ever be similar.
>"You may very well be right. But, you know, I also feel bad for certain kinds of racists and usually try to reason with them as well."Nobinayamu, then you're a much better and more patient person than I am. But then I'm usually going nose-to-nose with people I know either have too much invested in remaining as they are or people who know what they're doing is wrong and just don't care.
>NWOaf, still too dense to realize when he’s being insulting to men and women.NWOaf states that All Men Like X and No Women Like X; and All Women Like Y and No Men Like Y. No qualifiers or anything, just, “this is the nature of men and women, full stop.” This is a transparent attempt to prevent himself, and incidentally the rest of the world, from becoming aware of and acknowledging the existence of women who like X and men who like Y. It is, in point of fact, extremely insulting to be told, “You don’t exist.”
>…And having posted that, now I'm looking up what animes include Bifauxnen. *sigh* Sweet, tasty gender ambiguity. NWO doesn't know what he's missing out on with his insistence on rigid gender/sex roles.
>See, now, this is why charlatans like John Gray sell so many books.
>Or, to paraphrase the illustrious Judge Judy: don't shit in my thread and tell me it's chocolate pudding.
>I think NWOaf is a better nickname for NWOslave.Who is John Gray?
>ozy, wincest FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh my goodness SO. MUCH. WIN.
>I want to second Rachel's list of alternate solutions to libido/libido-mismatch issues.
>Men are sexually excited visually and women are sexually excited for the most part by actions and words… So "porn" for men is pictures of pretty girls … Women are basically the opposite, their "porn" is the multitude of romance novels and such that come out by the boatload.I dunno about that being a universal truism.Romance novels = BLEEEAAAAH!!Viggo Mortensen's full frontals in a few flix = MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!But that's just my opinion.Who is John Gray?The dude who wrote "Men are from Mars, Women from Venus" or whatever that crap was called.