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| From NiceGuy’s MGTOW forum. |
Once upon a time one of the guys over at NiceGuy’s MGTOW forum set up a little poll asking his fellow “nice guys” whether or not they actually consider themselves to be misogynists; it’s been up there for years, and the site’s resident MGTOWers have been adding votes and comments all along. The wording of the poll is sufficiently, ah, flexible enough to give respondents a lot of ways to wiggle out of saying explicitly that they really were misogynists:
* I despise the entire female sex. Period.* I hate only “western” women.* I only hate feminists and women who take advantage of sexism.* I just blame feminists.* I don’t hate women; I just don’t like being around them.* I have no animosity towards women of any group. I’m only here to learn more about MRAs.
Still, given the amount of angry and explicit and completely straightforward misogyny you can find in the forms there, which after all are an outgrowth of a site devoted to the notion that “American women suck,” I’m a little bit surprised by how many of the regulars claim not to hate women – as you can see from the graphic above, the most popular answer is the one about “feminists and women who take advantage of sexism,” whatever that means.
Conveniently, though, many of those who voted in the poll also posted comments explaining their, er, reasoning. And it’s pretty clear that they have a radically different definition of hate than, you know, the dictionary, and/or what everyone else in the world means when they use the word hate.
Here are some of the comments from guys there who say that they aren’t misogynist. Again, just to make myself clear: these are entirely NON-HATEFUL comments from those who say they DON’T hate women.
Let’s start with the completely non-hateful non-hater who calls himself Alpha:
I’m not one who hates … I find that I don’t enjoy the company of women very much, as they tend to talk about things I really don’t give a crap about. Besides, they really wouldn’t like to hear what comes out of my mouth since, if I were to really say what I thought around them without restraint, they would go into knee-jerk, defensive mode. They’ve been so conditioned to fight and argue with what is simply, to me, a male point of view on things. It’s like being around children. ..I will say this, I love ladies, the female equivalent of a gentleman, a gentlewoman. Unfortunately, that’s a rare breed these days. What we have are a bunch of emotionally immature, emotionally unrestrained, emotionally violent, toxic, unappreciative, self-centered, self-absorbed, self-serving, unempathetic, exploitive, arrested adolescents with vaginas, bad attitudes, and an incredible amount of contempt.Now, I don’t mind holding my tongue around ladies. But the moment women declared themselves equal to men, they opened the door to being talked to as men.
And here is committed non-misogynist Zaku:
I voted: “I don’t hate women; I just don’t like being around them.”Mostly because they have nothing to offer other than whining usually. …
When women talk they make me “ZZZ”.
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| Tiny kitties are honest about their hatreds. |
In a followup comment Zaku offered this, well, revealing take on sex with women:
Maybe it’s because I’ve only done american chicks but to be blunt having sex with a woman is like humping a moist pillow: It doesn’t join in and you can hardly tell the difference.
There is something I would dearly like to tell young Zaku at this point but I really can’t think of a delicate way to put it. Hmm. I’ll do it the Dear Abby way.
CONFIDENTIAL TO Z— on N—G—‘sM—- F—- : You may be doing it wrong.
Our friend MarkyMark popped in to offer his two cents:
I don’t hate women, but, after working with a bunch of them and seeing their true colors, I don’t care to be around them. I don’t hate sewers, either; I just don’t care to spend time in them..
Now if this were anyone but our friend MarkyMark making this comment, I would assume he was making a little joke here. But as far as I have been able to determine, MarkyMark does not actually have a sense of humor. This is, after all, a guy who once devoted a blog post to rebutting, point by point, an article in The Onion. Joke or no, I think we can all agree it’s 1) not actually, you know, funny and 2) kind of a douchey thing to say.
Djc added this utterly non-misogynistic comment to the pile:
I can’t stand to be around them for too long. It’s not hatred. I just can’t stand stupid people. Male, or female. And there is no question most American females are dripping with delusions, which in my book makes them stupid. And I’m at a point where women have nothing I really need. So it’s a complete waste of my time to even talk to one
And then there is this, from strigoi:
i merely hate feminists, those women who latch onto sexism and how it has infected most of society. I aim for the cancer at the heart of the problem, they are the ones that need to be hanged.
I guess technically, that’s not misogyny. But I don’t think I’ll be inviting this guy over for dinner any time soon.
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>I didn't say they invited harrassment I said they dress to garnish attention. I said that if a woman rejects a sewerworker for harrassing her yet doesn't reject a Brad Pitt type man if they both approached her saying the exact same thing. This is hypocracy. I know what I said.
>You said there were no sex advice columns in men's magazines-I proved you wrong. You then state "well since I do not read it, it is irrelevant."That is acting like an asshole since you were shown to be incorrect and immediately ignored that fact.Nonasshole way of responding "okay, I was wrong about a few magazines. I do not read that tripe so I was unaware those magazines have such columns."
>Again:1. What is that "exact same thing" that Brad Pitt or the sewer guy is saying?2. Okay to murder rapists' children? (Not fetuses)3. Why is street harassment so prevalent in Egypt? Are headscarves, long sleeves, and long skirts also designed to "garnish" (that word doesn't mean what you think it means) the attention of men? If so, is there ANY mode of dressing that will not "garnish" men's attention? We need to know right away, since once you answer this question we'll be able to end street harassment and stalking forever!
>@Sally, OK#1) The mystery phrase. "WOW, you look hot."#2) If a man would rape a 10 year old girl his life is forfiet for commiting such a crime. If a woman gets pregnant from a rape that life is forfiet due to the crime of unlawful conception. Which is exactly the law of the US constitution. The law that allows todays abortion on demand is corporate law.#3) As I said I cannot answer because I honestly have no idea what the story is.
>Actually I take #2 back I didn't finish reading your statement carefully. I thought it said fetus only. But as I said that is the woman choice because of the unlawful conception.
>1. Not harassment. Irrelevant to the discussion. Ergo: you are wrong, there's no hypocrisy. (Caveat: "Wow you're hot" can become harassment if the woman doesn't respond and the guy gets pissed off about it.)2. Incoherent. I don't think you understood what I was asking. What else is new? You are, after all, rather pathetically stupid. 3. "As I said"? You never said a damn thing. You posited a correlation between dressing "sexy" and harassment. Now you're backing away from it. It's kind of sad that you're so dumb. I suppose it's better that way, though–smart assholes are a REAL pain in the ass. You are an annoyance. Good night.
>Even if this hypothetical woman rejected a sewer worker in favor of Brad Pitt…SO WHAT?!?Are you saying that men respond to every pass made at them, without fail, and that *this* makes them morally superior? A woman has a right to respond to passes and flirting which she finds welcome. Yes, it's all based on what she feels – because women are people with valid thoughts, opinions and desires. There's nothing wrong with her liking Brad Pitt but finding this hypothetical sewerworker unattractive. Besides, if she fucked Brad Pitt, and the sewerworker, and any man who made a pass at her, you'd probably call her a filthy, disease ridden slut. If she aborts any babies, she's a murderess, but if she keeps them, she's a welfare queen. There's no winning with misogynists, is there? And women don't automatically interpret every unwanted advance as harassment, nor are men summarily thrown in jail for such. If that were true, there'd be no straight men left outside of the prison system, since women get unwanted advances ALL THE FREAKING TIME. And it's certainly not because of how we dress. And even IF a woman is dressed sexily, that's still not an open invitation to grope her, harass her or talk to her when she doesn't care to talk to you.
>Wow, you really ARE stupid! I said: Okay to murder rapists' children? (Not fetuses)You said: I thought it said fetus only. That's not fast reading, that's feeble-mindedness.
>How is my answer to #1 irrelevant?I answered #2) completely, apparently in my own now stupid asshole way.And 3 I explained clearly I do not know the story or article you are speaking of. SO you have dubbed me stupid, incoherent, asshole, dumb and annoying. After I have answered all of your questions but you have answered none of mine.
>You have a responsibility to any children that share 50% of your DNA. Unless, of course, you go through the legal process of relinquishing all rights AND responsibilities.(Sally)Is that actually Legally possible in any state or province?
>and feebleminded. I seem to be slipping ever further, a shame I wasn't aborted.
>@Tit for Tat…I agree 100% Any man and woman who concieve a child both bear equal responibility.
>Is that actually Legally possible in any state or province? I believe so, but I understand it's extremely complicated and am not certain that it's possible without the consent of the other parent. NWA you're a loser and yes, you have shown yourself to be stupid. Don't like it? Start being coherent. A shame you weren't aborted? That's an awful thing to say about yourself. I didn't say it though, so don't put words in my mouth.
>T4T on the other hand: not stupid. Just prone to being very coy and disingenuous.
>WIll you answer my questions Sally to enlighten me?
>SallyIm genuine. Maybe not the way you would like. But I pretty much call it like I see it.
>1. I dress the way I do because I enjoy it, not because hypothetical men might enjoy it. Contrary to what some men seem to think, women can wear nice clothes or makeup WITHOUT thinking about being attractive to the opposite sex. Geez. How clueless are people?2. If Mr. Sewer Worker or Mr. Pitt came up to me while I was going about my business at the store or on my way to class or whatever else, and said, "Wow, you're hot!" I would respond in the exact same way: Ignore. I once had a guy zip up to me on his motor scooter, get my attention, waggle his penis at me, and then drive off. If he had been hot, I would still have rolled my eyes.3. Thank god someone else mentioned Maxim and GQ. I've never read a Maxim, GQ, or even Cosmo in my life either, but *somehow* I became aware of the contents of these magazines. It's called "paying attention to the world around you." It's fun. Try it sometime. They're placed everywhere in plain view. You have to be either blind (and I mean that literally), illiterate, or just oblivious to the world around you to avoid them.Of course, the "oblivious" thing would sure explain all the, "But women like being harassed sometimes!" stuff …
>Yes Tit for Tat I called it like I saw it and for that I was shamed mightily for not following the agenda. Basically you'll be forced to aswer all question posed and when your responses are unacceptable you'll be ridiculed. And none of your questions will be answered.
>slavethats ok, I kind of like the tit for tat. You know, being that Im disingenuous.
>@Eliza Doaslittleaspossible Do you dress up when your staying home alone?Are you really going to tell me if Brad Pitt came up to you and said "WOW your hot" you would ignore him?
>Well tit for tat at least your not stupid, incoherent, an asshole, dumb, annoying and feebleminded like me.
>What I mean, T4T, is that you don't seem to enjoy just coming out and saying what you think, instead you prefer posing leading questions that you already know the answer to.
>slaveNo, Im pretty much all those things too. Well, maybe not stupid.
>NWAsshole – that scenario with Brad Pitt? Never going to happen. I don't know if I'd ignore him or not–if I recognized him I'd be like "WOW, YOU'RE BRAD PITT!!" and then, "Hey… aren't you married to Angelina Jolie? She's way hotter than me… are you trying to fuck with me?"
>I dress the way I do because I enjoy it, not because hypothetical men might enjoy it. Contrary to what some men seem to think, women can wear nice clothes or makeup WITHOUT thinking about being attractive to the opposite sex.(Eliza)My wife and I are having this discussion at the moment. Im not sure I agree with her so it looks like I might not be getting lucky tonight. 😉