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| From NiceGuy’s MGTOW forum. |
Once upon a time one of the guys over at NiceGuy’s MGTOW forum set up a little poll asking his fellow “nice guys” whether or not they actually consider themselves to be misogynists; it’s been up there for years, and the site’s resident MGTOWers have been adding votes and comments all along. The wording of the poll is sufficiently, ah, flexible enough to give respondents a lot of ways to wiggle out of saying explicitly that they really were misogynists:
* I despise the entire female sex. Period.* I hate only “western” women.* I only hate feminists and women who take advantage of sexism.* I just blame feminists.* I don’t hate women; I just don’t like being around them.* I have no animosity towards women of any group. I’m only here to learn more about MRAs.
Still, given the amount of angry and explicit and completely straightforward misogyny you can find in the forms there, which after all are an outgrowth of a site devoted to the notion that “American women suck,” I’m a little bit surprised by how many of the regulars claim not to hate women – as you can see from the graphic above, the most popular answer is the one about “feminists and women who take advantage of sexism,” whatever that means.
Conveniently, though, many of those who voted in the poll also posted comments explaining their, er, reasoning. And it’s pretty clear that they have a radically different definition of hate than, you know, the dictionary, and/or what everyone else in the world means when they use the word hate.
Here are some of the comments from guys there who say that they aren’t misogynist. Again, just to make myself clear: these are entirely NON-HATEFUL comments from those who say they DON’T hate women.
Let’s start with the completely non-hateful non-hater who calls himself Alpha:
I’m not one who hates … I find that I don’t enjoy the company of women very much, as they tend to talk about things I really don’t give a crap about. Besides, they really wouldn’t like to hear what comes out of my mouth since, if I were to really say what I thought around them without restraint, they would go into knee-jerk, defensive mode. They’ve been so conditioned to fight and argue with what is simply, to me, a male point of view on things. It’s like being around children. ..I will say this, I love ladies, the female equivalent of a gentleman, a gentlewoman. Unfortunately, that’s a rare breed these days. What we have are a bunch of emotionally immature, emotionally unrestrained, emotionally violent, toxic, unappreciative, self-centered, self-absorbed, self-serving, unempathetic, exploitive, arrested adolescents with vaginas, bad attitudes, and an incredible amount of contempt.Now, I don’t mind holding my tongue around ladies. But the moment women declared themselves equal to men, they opened the door to being talked to as men.
And here is committed non-misogynist Zaku:
I voted: “I don’t hate women; I just don’t like being around them.”Mostly because they have nothing to offer other than whining usually. …
When women talk they make me “ZZZ”.
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| Tiny kitties are honest about their hatreds. |
In a followup comment Zaku offered this, well, revealing take on sex with women:
Maybe it’s because I’ve only done american chicks but to be blunt having sex with a woman is like humping a moist pillow: It doesn’t join in and you can hardly tell the difference.
There is something I would dearly like to tell young Zaku at this point but I really can’t think of a delicate way to put it. Hmm. I’ll do it the Dear Abby way.
CONFIDENTIAL TO Z— on N—G—‘sM—- F—- : You may be doing it wrong.
Our friend MarkyMark popped in to offer his two cents:
I don’t hate women, but, after working with a bunch of them and seeing their true colors, I don’t care to be around them. I don’t hate sewers, either; I just don’t care to spend time in them..
Now if this were anyone but our friend MarkyMark making this comment, I would assume he was making a little joke here. But as far as I have been able to determine, MarkyMark does not actually have a sense of humor. This is, after all, a guy who once devoted a blog post to rebutting, point by point, an article in The Onion. Joke or no, I think we can all agree it’s 1) not actually, you know, funny and 2) kind of a douchey thing to say.
Djc added this utterly non-misogynistic comment to the pile:
I can’t stand to be around them for too long. It’s not hatred. I just can’t stand stupid people. Male, or female. And there is no question most American females are dripping with delusions, which in my book makes them stupid. And I’m at a point where women have nothing I really need. So it’s a complete waste of my time to even talk to one
And then there is this, from strigoi:
i merely hate feminists, those women who latch onto sexism and how it has infected most of society. I aim for the cancer at the heart of the problem, they are the ones that need to be hanged.
I guess technically, that’s not misogyny. But I don’t think I’ll be inviting this guy over for dinner any time soon.
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>"FYI, I will be deleting all further comments in this thread using the word [gender identity slur redacted]"What about posts using the word 'idiocy'?
>@Amused…"cannibalize another's body," This, this is your description of how every single person is born? This is the best justification you can come up with? How about if a woman "wants" to keep the fetus? Is it suddenly no longer a "cannibal" and becomes "my baby" when she rubs her stomach?So you couldn't tell I was being sarchastic Sally? Do I have to actually write, Being sarcastic?
>Amused…So what you want then is to dictate who you "feel" should be jailed for harrassment and who you "feel" flatters you by whatever you happen to be "feeling" at any given point in time? Is that correct?
>@Amused…"cannibalize another's body," This, this is your description of how every single person is born? This is the best justification you can come up with? How about if a woman "wants" to keep the fetus? Is it suddenly no longer a "cannibal" and becomes "my baby" when she rubs her stomach?That's right. It's her stomach, so she can do what she wants with it. HER stomach — not yours, not Brad Pitt's. Her body. Why is it so hard for you to grasp?
>@Amused…The fetus is a seperate being it is not her stomach that she aborts, it is a seperate life.
>@Amused…It is not her body, if it were she would die. No part of a woman dies from an abortion, yet something does die. That something is a seperate life that no woman has the right to terminate. If she does she has murdered.
>So what you want then is to dictate who you "feel" should be jailed for harrassment and who you "feel" flatters you by whatever you happen to be "feeling" at any given point in time? Is that correct? No, it's not. What I want, is for men like you to stop complaining about the supposed injustice of great tits and nice ass being attached to an actual human being with thoughts and feelings. I want you to stop dehumanizing us by claiming that being attractive makes us fare game for intimidation, assault, stalking and rape. Also: I would like MRA's to stop being dishonest and make shit up. Sexual harassment has to be pretty egregious before it rises to the level of a criminal offense, much less one that would result in a jail term. The overwhelming majority of sexual harassment is never punished in any way.
>So you couldn't tell I was being sarchastic Sally? Do I have to actually write, Being sarcastic? Since you are incoherent, self-contradictory, and full of hatred for women, yes. Whether a woman wants her baby or not, the fact is that the fetus must leech off her body in order to survive, diverting up to a quarter of the nutrients she consumes. This is parasitism, even though women who CHOOSE to be pregnant may not regard it that way. If the fetus were truly separate, it would not die when evicted from its mother's uterus. In any case, care to speak to the question of the Egyptian women and explain what they were wearing that made them deserve harassment? Do you believe it's acceptable to murder the already born child of a rapist? What is that hypothetical phrase that is harassment when uttered by a sewerworker and a flattering come-on when spoken by Brad Pitt?In the other thread, I said that Manboobz is cool because it allows me to interact with anti-feminists on more or less equal terms. I'm afraid I was being overly generous, at least where NWAsshole is concerned.
>@Amused… you say "Really? Does your "lowly sewerworker" approach all women equally? Do you give the same attention to women who look like Angelina Jolie and obese 90-year-old grannies? Hot chicks and fat chicks without any preferences? No? Then you are a hypocrite."The difference is I don't get to send you to jail for rejection, but you get to send me to jail harrassment. Thats the hypocracy of it all.
>NWAsshole thinks that abortion is murder… unless the woman was raped. I guess children conceived via rape are subhuman to him–logically then it stands to reason that he thinks it's okay to murder the born children of rapists. If he doesn't, he's a hypocrite. Also, when was the last time someone actually was jailed for street harassment? I'd like to hear about that.
>@SallyStrange…I told you before I don't hate women I'm calling out the hypocracy here. As I've told you I also do on MRA sites.As far as the Egyptian women you speak of I've heard nothing about it. Libya is the biggie in the news these days.Again I'm NWAsshole when I've insulted no one.
>Tell me sally can you report me for harrassment if you deem me unworthy?Can I report you for rejection if you deem me unworthy?
>The difference is I don't get to send you to jail for rejection, but you get to send me to jail harrassment. Thats the hypocracy of it all.Are you a spambot or something? That's the only reason I can think that you a.) can't answer questions posed to you and b.) continually misspell your favorite word. Rejection: not a crimeStreet harassment: a crime? Not really. I mean, it's not against the law to say rude things in public. It's just scary. Sometimes harassment escalated–if a man starts saying something like, "I'll kill you bitch!" then he could be arrested for that but I've certainly never heard of it happening. Harassment in the workplace: a crime. Usually not one that anyone goes to jail for. Cough up some citations, you fuckwit, or admit that your argument is pulled in its entirely out of your ass.
>No NWAsshole, I cannot report you for harassment if I "deem you unworthy." I can report you for harassment IF YOU HARASS ME. Even then, I can only report you if you a.) threaten me verbally or b.) touch me without permission. Simply yelling "nice tits!" is, although rude and unsettling, not against the law. No evidence so far that you are able to differentiate between harassment and flirting. Creepy-ass shitstain. So again, what's that mysterious phrase that's harassment coming from you but a flattering come-on when spoken by Brad Pitt? You really are pathetic. Yes, you. No, not all men. Just you.
>@SallyStrange…Oh no, no, no harrassment IS illegal. And we've got Hollaback exported worldwide. It's a "hate" crime.
>Again I'm NWAsshole when I've insulted no one. That line right there insults my intelligence. Of course you've insulted people. Me, Amused, Egyptian women, women who get abortions (the dirty sluts who weren't raped, that is)…
>http://www.letswrap.com/legal/harass.htm@SallyStrange…you see sally harrassment is a crime.
>So you calling me an asshole and me saying you calling me an asshole insult you?
>NWOslave, Maxim, which is CLEARLY a man's magazine, has a sex advice column for men.So did/does BritishGQ, Esquire, and Details.I found out that information within a second of googling: About 179,000 results (0.16 seconds) Is it the same as women? No: About 199,000 results (0.27 seconds)
>Really, harassment is illegal? Yelling "nice tits" is illegal? How precisely? There are three ways I can think of to get arrested for engaging what we call street harassment. 1. Direct threat of violence: "Ima kill you bitch!" or "Ima beat the shit out of you!"2. Touching without permission3. Indecent exposureIf you are engaging in any of those activities then you could be arrested and possibly jailed. Otherwise? Citations please.We have Hollaback. So? We also have Dickflash.com.
>Also, you are acting as an asshole so that is why they are calling you an asshole NWOslave. Stop acting that way and they will stop.
>That website is talking about stalking, not street harassment. Again, you need to be more precise with your language. Previously you were saying that women invite harassment when they dress sexily. When you said harassment, I assumed you meant street harassment–yelling things in the street, groping, leering. Now, it seems you are talking about following a woman to her home or her workplace, looking up her phone number, sending her things in the mail, making anonymous phone calls–are all those things directly attributable to the woman's low-cut top and sexy, sexy lipstick TOO??I mean, wow. Seriously, who knew this shit was so easy? Make all women wear burqas all the time, and we'll eliminate street harassment AND stalking!
>@Elizabeth…I read none of that tripe, I doubt if anyone does. How have I acted like an asshole.
>Then tell me Sally what exactly is hollaback? And what is the goal of hollaback? And how will it accomplish its goals?
>Answer the questions I posed to you. It is assholish behavior to continue to pretend that you didn't see them. 1. The mysterious phrase2. Okay to murder rapist's children? (Not fetuses)3. What did 85% of Egyptian women wear to deserve being harassed in the streets?