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| From NiceGuy’s MGTOW forum. |
Once upon a time one of the guys over at NiceGuy’s MGTOW forum set up a little poll asking his fellow “nice guys” whether or not they actually consider themselves to be misogynists; it’s been up there for years, and the site’s resident MGTOWers have been adding votes and comments all along. The wording of the poll is sufficiently, ah, flexible enough to give respondents a lot of ways to wiggle out of saying explicitly that they really were misogynists:
* I despise the entire female sex. Period.* I hate only “western” women.* I only hate feminists and women who take advantage of sexism.* I just blame feminists.* I don’t hate women; I just don’t like being around them.* I have no animosity towards women of any group. I’m only here to learn more about MRAs.
Still, given the amount of angry and explicit and completely straightforward misogyny you can find in the forms there, which after all are an outgrowth of a site devoted to the notion that “American women suck,” I’m a little bit surprised by how many of the regulars claim not to hate women – as you can see from the graphic above, the most popular answer is the one about “feminists and women who take advantage of sexism,” whatever that means.
Conveniently, though, many of those who voted in the poll also posted comments explaining their, er, reasoning. And it’s pretty clear that they have a radically different definition of hate than, you know, the dictionary, and/or what everyone else in the world means when they use the word hate.
Here are some of the comments from guys there who say that they aren’t misogynist. Again, just to make myself clear: these are entirely NON-HATEFUL comments from those who say they DON’T hate women.
Let’s start with the completely non-hateful non-hater who calls himself Alpha:
I’m not one who hates … I find that I don’t enjoy the company of women very much, as they tend to talk about things I really don’t give a crap about. Besides, they really wouldn’t like to hear what comes out of my mouth since, if I were to really say what I thought around them without restraint, they would go into knee-jerk, defensive mode. They’ve been so conditioned to fight and argue with what is simply, to me, a male point of view on things. It’s like being around children. ..I will say this, I love ladies, the female equivalent of a gentleman, a gentlewoman. Unfortunately, that’s a rare breed these days. What we have are a bunch of emotionally immature, emotionally unrestrained, emotionally violent, toxic, unappreciative, self-centered, self-absorbed, self-serving, unempathetic, exploitive, arrested adolescents with vaginas, bad attitudes, and an incredible amount of contempt.Now, I don’t mind holding my tongue around ladies. But the moment women declared themselves equal to men, they opened the door to being talked to as men.
And here is committed non-misogynist Zaku:
I voted: “I don’t hate women; I just don’t like being around them.”Mostly because they have nothing to offer other than whining usually. …
When women talk they make me “ZZZ”.
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| Tiny kitties are honest about their hatreds. |
In a followup comment Zaku offered this, well, revealing take on sex with women:
Maybe it’s because I’ve only done american chicks but to be blunt having sex with a woman is like humping a moist pillow: It doesn’t join in and you can hardly tell the difference.
There is something I would dearly like to tell young Zaku at this point but I really can’t think of a delicate way to put it. Hmm. I’ll do it the Dear Abby way.
CONFIDENTIAL TO Z— on N—G—‘sM—- F—- : You may be doing it wrong.
Our friend MarkyMark popped in to offer his two cents:
I don’t hate women, but, after working with a bunch of them and seeing their true colors, I don’t care to be around them. I don’t hate sewers, either; I just don’t care to spend time in them..
Now if this were anyone but our friend MarkyMark making this comment, I would assume he was making a little joke here. But as far as I have been able to determine, MarkyMark does not actually have a sense of humor. This is, after all, a guy who once devoted a blog post to rebutting, point by point, an article in The Onion. Joke or no, I think we can all agree it’s 1) not actually, you know, funny and 2) kind of a douchey thing to say.
Djc added this utterly non-misogynistic comment to the pile:
I can’t stand to be around them for too long. It’s not hatred. I just can’t stand stupid people. Male, or female. And there is no question most American females are dripping with delusions, which in my book makes them stupid. And I’m at a point where women have nothing I really need. So it’s a complete waste of my time to even talk to one
And then there is this, from strigoi:
i merely hate feminists, those women who latch onto sexism and how it has infected most of society. I aim for the cancer at the heart of the problem, they are the ones that need to be hanged.
I guess technically, that’s not misogyny. But I don’t think I’ll be inviting this guy over for dinner any time soon.
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*Yes, that was a Bioshock reference.
>NWOSlave: Women should participate in sex! If you are a woman who just lies there, you should stop doing that then. But if all your female partners just lie there… as they say, the only thing all your failed relationships have in common is you. Captain Bathrobe: I mean, I am female-bodied and genderqueer, so… he's kind of right? By accident?
>Woman to friend: "I don't know what's going on with Boyfriend, he only lies there like a moist pillow when I try to have sex with him."Friend: "Have you tried asking him what turns him on?"Woman: "But that would just make me a subservient moron!" Newsflash, NWOslave: I don't give a shit about what turns you on, because the mere thought of fucking someone with as ugly a personality as yours makes my labia shrivel. When I'm with someone I find attractive however, yes, of course I ask – that's assuming my partner hasn't already volunteered what he likes.
>@Amused…Please I alaways read the articles and comments for months before posting on a site.If this sleeze wrote an article saying homeless men were really lazy bums who only lay in gutters so they could look up girls skirts, everyone of you would be screaming misogynist.You can't wait for whatever tripe he puts up tommorow so you join in the shaming fun. Everyone here is so damn righteous. I've never seen one of you ever admit to, here it comes…………being wrong.
>NWO: So, let's summarize your position here. First, you are peeved that no one is supposedly asking what men want in bed. Second, you are peeved that women DO care about what men want in bed, and declare that women discussing this with other women (never mind that such advice articles are almost always authored by men) is "trash". Third, you proudly proclaim that men don't care about what women want in bed, because who needs to worry about that when there's sports to talk about?Dude … you are all over the place. Can you, like, pick a baseline for yourself in this discussion? Or are you going to continue to contradict yourself, lashing out at women for anything and everything? Should people care about what their lovers want? Are you claiming that men's sexual pleasure isn't properly attended to in our society, or it is attended too a bit too much, or what? Is it okay for men to care about pleasing women in bed, or is that emasculating?
>Oh c'mon Lady Victoria von Syrus you can do better than that. Not only does my personality suck, I must have a small dick, I can't get laid, I'm a loser, I have no ambition, I'm poor, I'm unkempt, I have bad eating habits, I'm obviosly a misogynist, I have mommy issue's. I ejaculate prematurely, I'm selfish.Isn't that what you do out here, play the strawman game?
>OOOH, EVERYONE! It's time for the Ozy Admits She's Wrong Show!Ozy used to be kinda transphobic… but she was wrong!Ozy used to think feminism wasn't that relevant anymore… but she was wrong!Ozy used to not think about classism or racism ever… but she was wrong!Ozy used to think Fight Club was misogynistic… but she was wrong!Ozy used to think the radfems didn't have a point… but she was wrong!
>I've mocked none of you but all of you decided it was your "right" to belittle me in every way possible.Is that what a feminist looks like???
>so therefore NWOSlave, you have just seen someone admit she was wrong on this site!
>So heartfelt Ozyy I really feel it. Another feminist trait perhaps, never having to say your sorry?
>NWO: If I happen to be wrong, I admit it. If I don't, then I won't. Incidentally, show me an MRA admit that he's wrong about something.If this sleeze wrote an article saying homeless men were really lazy bums who only lay in gutters so they could look up girls skirts, everyone of you would be screaming misogynist. Actually, many homeless men, if not the majority, are homeless in a large part because they suffer from mental illness. Are you saying MRA-ism is like homelessness, linked to mental illness?You can't wait for whatever tripe he puts up tommorow so you join in the shaming fun. But he doesn't write this tripe. YOU, MRA's and miggytows, write this tripe. And if this tripe MRA's and miggytows write is a source of shame for them, aren't they the ones primarily responsible?
>I've mocked none of you but all of you decided it was your "right" to belittle me in every way possible.Oh … you mean you were the one who made the "moist pillow" comment?
>Yes stick up for trannys and radfems and all that other good stuff. Fuck men though, cause were privileged right?Look around you sometimes see whose the sewerworkers are or the garbagemen or all those yukky dirty filthy manual laborers. Oh thats right there the lowlifes you can do better than.
>NWOSlave: I say I'm sorry all the time. It is my firm opinion that if you never have to apologize for violating your principles, your principles aren't high enough. And also, dude, there are rules here. Don't comment on a MRA site as a feminist unless you want to be called a weepy little mangina bitch, and don't comment on Manboobz as a MRA unless you want people to point out every flaw in your argument and persona in great detail.
>And look at the tripe written here amused. This is soooo much better is it?
>As manboobz has shown you, excellent. No room for free thinker here.
>I used to be Mormon. It doesn't get much wrong-er than that, especially because I was a holier-than-thou, know-it-all, Jesus-loves-you-you-filthy-sinner kind of Mormon. I was too young to vote for Prop 22 ('marriage protection' amendment in California almost ten years ago), but I would have if I was able. Instead, I persuaded some of my older friends to vote for it. I made up for it by campaigning hard for marriage equality when Prop 8 rolled around. @NWO: The only one of those insults that I will agree with is that you do, in fact, seem like a selfish asshole.
>Ozy, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so…Amnesia used to be homophobic… but she was wrong!Amnesia used to think visiting graveyards actually killed people… but she was wrong!Amnesia used to think black people couldn't make good music… but she was wrong!Amnesia used to blame the political left for bad government… but she was wrong!Amnesia used to be a big fan of Scott Adams… but she was wrong!
>NWOSlave: Classism is one of the three major axes of oppression, the other two being racism and sexism. Most feminist blogs argue for the end of all three. DUDE. Tranny is a slur. Use "trans," "transsexual" or "transgender." You wouldn't call a black person a nigger, or a developmentally disabled person a retard, don't call a trans person a tranny.
>My arguements have not been flawed. Whats done here is exactly what I've said. There are only two types of posts on this site.1)Slice and dice a particular person.2)strawman arguement.There is absolutely no articles of any value discussing any pertinant issue.
>@Ozymandias…They do not argue against sexism, unless it pertains to women.Examples. Men have no reproductive rights. Men are treated like absolute garbage in divorce court. Title IX, Affirmative Action, Quota's, and a myriad of laws give women an unfair advantage in education and employment, by law.Women recieve 1/2 the sentence of men for the same crime.And don't tell me men have power because they do NOT. I don't even know anyone who makes a 6 figure salary. No one I know isn't treading water just to stay afloat. I have NO POWER.
>Yea and here a classic example of your fucking caring, 100 million men in this country barely making ends meet and your biggest concern is mispronouncing fucking tranny.Oh damn I might hurt the poor fucking trannys feelings, well stop the planet and let me off.
>I have long been an supporter of the notion that "patriarchy hurts men too." That said…Women are much more likely to be sexually harassed, assualted or raped. Women do more chores than men. Women are expected to fit an impossible beauty ideal, and shamed when they do not live up to it. Women make 75 cents on the dollar, compared to men who work comparable hours. Women must work harder to get less credit in the workplace. Male children are encouraged to be more outgoing and assertive. Women are shamed for being sexually active as "sluts." And on, and on, and on. All of these are proven in the sociological literature.
>Millions of men AND women– including trans men and women– are barely making ends meet.Trans people, thanks to transphobia, are much more likely to be impoverished than the rest of the population. They are many times more likely to be victims of murder or suicide. Globally, the average lifespan of a trans person is only 23 years old (no, that is not a typo).Transphobia kills. Sure, you using "trans person" instead of "tranny" won't make a huge difference, but it also takes five seconds. A small effort, I should think.
>Stuff that all blaming patriarchy crap where the sun don't shine. If your going to regurgitate the flat out lies of 75 cents on a dollar crap you are way far gone.The fuckin white house report came out 3 weeks ago and said women make 89% of what men make at the same jobs, the same report from the fucking WHITE HOUSE said they also worked 5 hours less a week which is precisely 11% less there is NO GAP.Yes women are more likely to be sexually harrassed, because they dress up to attract the attention of men. And when its a Bradd Pitt or a George Cloony who gives them attention their flattered, but if it's the garbageman who they deem they can do better than, thats when a woman say its harrassment. Tell me that isn't so. Don't be a hypocrite.
>Women are shamed for being a slut because if you act like a slut you deserve to be shamed like a slut. You don't get a free pass for poor behavior.If a man acts like a dick he gets called a dick, he doesn't get a free pass either. we call it accountability in the real world.