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| A “Wacky Package by Tom Bunk. |
We have spoken here before about the imminent threat to civilization posed by misogynistic douchebags “going Galt,” shrugging like Atlas and depriving society of their hard work and staggering genius. Indeed, in the comments of this very blog, one of our own resident MGTOWers, Cold, explained how he was sticking it to The Man — er, The Woman — by not paying taxes on some of his earnings, thus becoming what economists call a “free rider”on government services, and what the rest of us taxpayers call a “tax cheat.”
He’s not the only manosphere dude who has concluded that the best way to screw over all those evil wimminz who are leeching off the government tit is to, er, leech off the government tit themselves. The guy calling himself AfOR — a prolific commenter and one-time contributor to the False Rape Society blog — explained his similar strategy in a comment on angry-dude megasite The Spearhead:
The wimminz are always directly dependent upon āno questions askedā money, usually from the public purse, and even those in industry only get away with it because the way is lead by the public purse.
Starve them of cash and you starve them of oxygen, they will literally die of starvation, and raise blue murder screaming to their last breath.
The only way to starve them of cash is to starve the State of cash, fuck the State, it canāt be fixed any other way and is now the enemy.
So how does one go about starving the state (metaphorically) and hopefully some actual women (literally)? With some slackery and/or tax fraud!
The only way to starve the State of cash is either live off welfare or work self employed and keep two sets of books, run the black / cash economy for what you can, and good accounting for what you canāt where everything is a deductible expense.
If you pay into the State, you are paying into the wimminz defence fund.
Since AfOR only rarely gets to see his kids, he figures it doesn’t matter if his brand of slacktivism destroys the economy — and possibly leads to them getting killed.
I couldnāt have less contact with my kids if we had had TOTAL economic meltdown and they had died in the ensuing chaos, so frankly speaking total economic meltdown holds nothing very scary for me, I have a set of skills that will always be in demand (a brain, two hands and a mechanical aptitude)
Nope! He’s footloose and fancy free!
Freed from needing to cater to the ex bitch and freed (prevented by force of Law actually) from any obligation towards my kids I can go live in my fucking car, it provides 12 VDC to power my laptop and charge my smartphone, and I can tether my smartphone to my laptop and get internet access anywhere I can get a phone signal.
In siding with the wimminz the State has made me the very thing it fears the most, the worker who can go anywhere on a whim, the worker who can work in the black (cash) economy, the worker who is very hard to track and profile … the worker who has no interest in taking on a debt burden or otherwise āboostingā the economy, the worker who canāt be bribed to vote appropriately because he doesnāt have a McMansion, corporate job, mortgage, etc etc. …
I guess Ayn Rand would be … proud?
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>white supremacists are usually more than happy to tell you about their 'movement'. Yeah, but white supremacists love to play the victim card, too. One of their favorites is to argue that interbreeding between people of different races represents genocide against white children…because they're not being born, or something. Or they'll quote you dubious statistics about black-on-white crime as evidence that white people are the Most Oppressed Group Evar. And I've definitely heard them assert that being anti-racist is the same thing as being anti-white.
>@theclementine:That is also a good word! @ Captain Bathrobe:I didn't mean to be an apologist for white supremacy, just pointing out that white supremacists are prouder of being what they are than patriarchists.
>"I'm fucking sick of hearing men whine about how our lives are hard too. Of course they are; nobody said they weren't. Your life is hard because you're human. Deal with it. Womens' lives are harder because they're female humans."—TrianythingMaybe women should stop whining and get up off their asses, too? By extension, that's what you should be advocating. Or maybe you are whining about whining or something.
>Cold said… "Triplanetary: white knight extraordinaire."Indeed. I think he's trying to assuage his guilts. Or maybe get some.
>Lady VicI now understand how you are using those words. My feelings arent hurt, Im just making a suggestion in regards to communication or at least trying to better it. You dont have to implement my suggestion if you do not wish.SallyStrangeYou are a little too angry for my liking. I think I would prefer to play with someone else. Have a nice life.
>@theclementine"kyriarchy", I just read that word on another blog. That word may be a new beginning in this angerfest we see from both sides. Instead of the blame game that is presently being implemented, regardless of what people tell me.
>Tit for Tat, there's a whole century's worth (and more) of feminist writers and thinkers who don't really care that you think they're just angry and playing the blame game. All you're doing is coming in here and mansplaining to the feminists that they're just being too angry, and you probably don't even realize how trite and shallow that assessment is.
>Lady Vic: No worries. I didn't think you were being an apologist. I was giving my unsolicited 2 cents, as usual. š
>Since when does oppression solely involve being incarcerated?Strawman fallacy; I never said or implied that it did. I find it telling that nobody can give a real answer to that question; they can only respond to it with a loaded question.women suffer from depression at a much higher rate than men, they would seem to be at higher risk for suicide.I also find it telling that when faced with the suicide stat, which is based on actual suicides and can only be under or over-reported if some suicides are mistakenly classified as accidents or manslaighter/murder, or vice-versa. Feminists respond with their favored "soft" stats that are conveniently murky and conveniently lacking in any hard data. Where is the proof that more women than men suffer from depression? Oh right, there is none. Perhaps more women REPORT feeling depressed, but only a fool would jump from there to the conclusion that more women actually suffer from depression. Here's a nice little excerpt from that very article:An attempted suicide is not really an attempt at suicide in about 95 percent of cases. It is a different phenomenon. It's most often an effort to bring someone's attention, dramatically, to a problem that the individual feels needs to be solved.Which is exactly what I have been saying for years in response to the "women attempt suicide more often" counter-stat. It's a cry for help/attention, not a serious effort to end one's life because one has lost all hope.Not so fast on that incarceration thing:Increasing arrests for property and public order offenses are partly responsible for womenās incarceration rate outpacing that of men.When/if the number of women in prison becomes 50% of the total prison population, THEN you will actually have a point there. Until then, you have nothing.
>TripIm actually pointing out the ones on both sides who seem to need a class on anger management. Im curious, do you think you fit that bill? Hopefully that question is not too trite and shallow for ya.
>"Feminism boosts sexual satisfaction for both men and women, a new study suggests. "http://www.livescience.com/1964-feminists-fun.htmlThat's an article briefly summarizing a study to which it doesn't bother to link. Didn't you say before that if it doesn't link to the original source then it's spam?As for getting the opposite of what one wants, a male feminist looking to score more points with women is going to be sorely disappointed, as is a male feminist looking for gender equality. In fact, when/if said male feminist finally realizes that the feminist movement doesn't give a shit about men, he will probably become an MRA.
>You know who wants to preserve a culture in which men are derided for feeling sad and admitting they need help? People who support the patriarchy.Western society has not been patriarchal for several decades now, and continuing to claim that it is without proof just makes me inclined to dismiss you as a fanatic.You know who wants to disrupt that culture and replace it with one where everyone gets to freely express emotions and ask for help without being judged for it? Feminists.Oh, so THAT'S why feminists mocked me and told me to stop whining when I expressed the fact that I was deeply depressed. That was before I became an MRA, by the way.This blog is run by someone who identifies as a feminist, and what does he do in most posts? Oh that's right, he cherry-picked quotes from supposed MRAs, although most of them cannot actually be verified as such. Many of the ones who can be verified as such are newcomers to the movement who are expressing their understandable(to non-misandrists) anger, and what does he do? He mocks them for it and lumps them into his "men who should not ever be with women ever" category. Yeah, feminists are really empathetic, aren't they?Here's an idea for anyone who seriously wants to get MRAs (back)on board with feminism: stop telling us to get (back)on board and actually go out and DO SOMETHING that will prove to us that you care about our issues. Let's see a feminist campaign for serious punishment of false rape accusers, and equal anonymity or naming of both the accuser and the accused. Let's see a feminist campaign demanding equal sentencing for men and women, and a campaign demanding equal opportunity for men and women to opt out of parenthood. When I see that happening, then MAYBE I will get on board. As long as feminists keep advancing an agenda of female supremacy, I will keep treating them as female supremacists.
>Just as conservatism is the search for a moral justification for selfishness, so libertarianism is the search for a moral justification for freeloading.Just as feminism is the search for a moral justification for treating men like shit.
>What feminists told you to stop whining about being depressed? Were they actual feminists or just what passes for feminist in the MRA movement (aka a female with a pulse.)And do not think we did not notice you belittling women who have depression while expecting to be comforted for having had depression.I also pointed out that feminism is about attaining equality for women who have unequal status with men. (Several people on here disagree with me though.) So naturally they will focus on women's issues first and not men. They are not going to suddenly decide to start organizing to make it harder for rape victims to come forward (by making it easy for the public to shame and harass the victims like in the Texas town where the 11 year old had to be removed from the town because of the threats she was facing.) They are not going to start fighting to make it easier for men to skip out on their responsibilities. They are not going to create petitions to throw more women in prison for drug crimes or other types of crimes.Not going to happen.
>@ Cold: I've already dismissed you as someone not worth my time, so your threat of dismissing me as a fanatic holds no water. Besides, I will gladly assume the mantle of 'fanatic for equality.'
>@T4TSometimes, anger is productive – it inspires people to move forward and change what is pissing them off. I, for one, am bleeding pissed about the attacks that Planned Parenthood is suffering – and that's only a very minor anger compared to some of the larger world issues. Women have been told for centuries to be 'nice', to never get angry, to always put the needs of the group before their own, that other people have it worse than they do (like on this very thread, where it seems like some people are arguing that feminism should abandon fighting for Planned Parenthood to give all their attention and resources to male suicide). So telling a feminist she shouldn't be so angry is not going to get you anywhere, especially if there are things to be legitimately angry about.
>@Captain Bathrobe, I would argue that women who use pills are not less serious about suicide. In western culture, suicide is seen as a sign of weakness. Bloody suicides, however, are seen as less weak than non-bloody suicides. Which means that suicide by pill is seen as particularly emasculating. Also, the most common bloody method used by women, slitting wrists, actually has a far lower death rate than many think(particularly as most people cannot recognize the difference between venal and arterial bleeds on the limbs). Shooting the head rather than injuring the extremities leads to higher rates of death as the body goes into shock very often and reduces blood loss for the extremities but does not do so for the head. It is a myth that suicides are often cries for attention. No major psycological or mental health source supports this notion. From the National Institute of Mental Health:"Most suicide attempts are expressions of extreme distress, not harmless bids for attention. A person who appears suicidal should not be left alone and needs immediate mental-health treatment."http://www.mentalhealth.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml
>@lady vicI guess the anger Im talking about is the one that repels rather than propels. I understand where you are coming from. Do you ever notice how rare it is for either side to actually inquire if any of us personally has experienced abuse? In fact I have been on the receiving end of lots of what feminists/mra's love to talk on about. Im amazed at how few of them have personally experienced it though. When it comes to anger and how we use it I am reminded of a good quote that I shared with my daughter."Anger is a hot coal that burns you before you pass it on"
>Ah, but anger which propels one person can be the same anger which repels another. And, really, it's not anyone's job to ask if you've suffered abuse. For one, it's intrusive and rude. If you feel like it's something that you want to talk about, you can bring it up without being prompted. And even if a person has suffered some form of abuse, that shouldn't be expected to be the defining moment of their lives, around which they construct every thought – so it's possible that the feminists or MRAs *have* suffered abuse, but choose not to talk about it very much. That being said, if you really are looking for a feminist community which takes great pains to be solicitous of members' feelings, I can recommend Shakesville – but there will be anger, there, too. Denying anger or suppressing anger can be damaging in the long run, and I think our culture lacks good methods for dealing with anger, both in ourselves and in others. Women should feel free to express anger without being judged for it or being told to be more ladylike or reminded that they're making others uncomfortable. Men should also feel free to express anger without resorting to violence or threats. Anger is a legitimate emotion, just like joy or fear or sadness or disappointment, and it should be treated like such.
>Darkside: I completely agree that all suicidal threats, gestures, ideation, etc. should be taken very, very seriously. I in no way meant to conflate the use of a low lethality method with a cry for attention. "Cry for help" was a poor choice of words of my part.
>That being said, if you really are looking for a feminist community which takes great pains to be solicitous of members' feelings, I can recommend Shakesville – but there will be anger, there, too. And, whatever you do, stay away from Pandagon! They don't go easy there./loves Pandagon
>Pandagon is also my favorite, but I've noticed that the writers at Shakesville are likelier to invite people to talk about their own experiences with abuse than most of the other feminist blogs/communities I am currently aware of. Since Tit 4 Tat seemed put out that no one had asked him directly to talk about his experiences, I thought he might find a useful outlet there.
>Lady VicIn your opinion which is more damaging to a person, physical violence or emotional violence?
>Honestly, I can't say. I can take a hit pretty well, but being excluded from something hurts me. However, I have friends who are the exact opposite – it's all about where we're strongest, weakest and what our coping strategies are. It's also a matter of degree – is it just a punch or two in a brawl, or a full-on boot squad? Is it a random person from 4chan come to insult me, or is it having to deal with hearing every day how I'm not good enough or unworthy of love? I would say that physical violence that leads to death is the worst of all cases, but not all physical violence leads to death. Physical violence which leads to permanent disabling is also probably worse, but again, lots of instances of physical violence can be healed. And emotional neglect can leave it's own scars – I know people who struggle with having a meaningful connection with others because of childhood trauma involving emotional neglect. And also, how would you classify threats of physical violence? Is sending someone a death threat through the phone or email physical violence or emotional violence? There are also things like being molested by a trusted family member which are both physically and emotionally violent (physical because of the nature of the act; emotional because of the betrayal). Battered women are told constantly by their partners that they aren't good enough, in addition to the physical violence. Physical violence can have its own emotional fallout, as well. In summation, I'd say 'It's complicated and it depends.'
>In summation, I'd say 'It's complicated and it depends(Lady Vic)That was a good response. Ok, lets say you are married and for several years you verbally and emotionally accost your husband. He is not a very literate man and has a hard time expressing his anger with words and to get it out so it doesnt hurt him in the long run he punches you in the face. In your world who is more guilty?