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My contribution to the Good Men Project debate over the Men’s Rights Movement — talking about misogyny in the movement — is up now.
Batman on an elephant says check it out.
We Hunted The MammothBucking the Backlash
We Hunted The Mammoth>
My contribution to the Good Men Project debate over the Men’s Rights Movement — talking about misogyny in the movement — is up now.
Batman on an elephant says check it out.
>Wow, David. You accuse the MRM of wallowing in whiny victimhood, and a bunch of our favorite MRAs show up to engage in…whiny victimhood. Color me completely unsurprised.I absolutely love the contrast between the commenters' predictions of MRA Total World Domination within a few years time and your rather self-evident observation that these guys don't really do shit except whine all day on the internet. I've studied social movements a fair amount, and I've never read that mass whining ever led to much in the way of social change. Still, only time will tell, I suppose.Good article.
>So what do 99 percent of feminists do about female issues again? That's right, NOTHING. Just like all the feminists on this blog. They have never lifted a finger for women's issues and yet they always seem to use the word "we" when talking about feminism has battled this and that.99 percent of feminists who accuse MRAs doing nothing but whining about men's issues are hilarious retarded hypocrites
>hey nick, I guess the fact that my free time is split between working the rape victim support hotline and at the domestic violence shelter means that I do nothing huh?
>Ah, briget, but what are you doing about victims of false rape accusations? How come you don't do anything for them? Who cares about rape when there is this much bigger problem of false rape accusations? Why do you feminists focus on women all the time? As long as there are men in the world who experience problems, it's not fair to dwell on women!!(Disclaimer: that was sarcasm)
>hey briget, you must have lots and lots of free time with how busy those rape victim support hotlines are.Oops! I forgot! I'm supposed to get a constipated, humorless, self-important feminyst with a stick up her ass to help me devise an appropriate "Trigger Warning" before this comment (because we know how very sensitive David Fruit-relle and you all are). It would say something like this: "Truth About Rape Culture is About to be Expressed."
>Amused: Disclaimer: You aren't even mildly amusing.
>amused, my general response to them is that the rape victim support line helps both male and female victims, and the shelter that I work at doesn't discriminate based on gender so I am helping men as well.
>briget, if you had an once of honesty, you'd admit you never fielded a single call at this alleged hotline.
>> briget, if you had an once of honesty, you'd admit you never fielded a single call at this alleged hotline.That's what I was exactly thinking. Just because I called out on the hypocrisy, you'll get feminists making shit up just to cover their ass.If every or most or 99 percent of feminists were working at these hotlines, there must be one hell of a lot of these call centres. Like in every street corner or something
>Nick, I'm glad you consider all of my financial support to Planned Parenthood and the food banks of my city to be doing "nothing."See, I have the financial privledge to be able to show support with dollar signs. I also donate to the NAACP and MRFF. Besides, I consider it a public service to keep you on here commenting and away from actual, live people. David has my undying gratitude.
>Admit it briget! You're just making the whole thing up! In fact, how do I know you really exist? How do I know you're not really someone else? Someone like..Paul Anka, perhaps? Well, I'll have you know that there is no evidence of Paul Anka ever working at a so-called "rape" hotline, so there!Good day, Mr. Anka. I said, GOOD DAY!
>Also, I love how anything said that contradicts Nick and Jason is automatically lying. It's kind of ironic. Or something.
>If any of you FEMYQWERTYISTS had any sense of decency, you would admit you run over dogs for fun. Other animals, too, I bet. I was there. Not cats though.
>Tawaen, nothing is contradicting me and Jason. The simple fact is that 99 percent of feminists don't lift a finger for female issues, all they do is complain. Then they have the audacity to criticise MRAs for doing the same.
>If people such like David was even lifting a finger for female issues, he wouldn't have so much time to devote in this blog. Then you have to think about the other things in his life. Work, friends, family etc etc. It just wouldn’t all add up
>Hmm, I can't speak for other feminists, but I work in an archive preserving people's historical collections, mostly women because of the nature of our institution. I also mentor college students, also mostly women, because they seem more likely to request help. In my free time, I volunteer at our community market, and work to support local artists and craftspeople. In fact, I would argue that every decision a person makes tells us something about what they believe, whether they are consciously trying to build lives consistent with their values or just doing so unconsciously. From what I can tell, a lot of MRA's want to tell other people what's wrong and have them all get to work on fixing it. On some issues MRA's and feminists could probably work together. (not calling each other names would probably help the cause) But, you may have seen the news recently, we've got some serious shit of our own that we're trying to shovel. (If you live near a major city there is going to be another March for Choice on March 26th.) Also, nick, what makes this blog *not* feminist work for David? How are you qualified to define what is and what is not a feminist act?
>nick, I have at various points in my life been involved in different kinds of political activism, including some for feminist causes, helping to organize events and protests, going to "clinic defense" and the like. I'm not currently doing that. I do know that a number of the feminist commenters here are involved in activism and/or other kinds of real-world efforts to help women (and men) — working at shelters, running for political office, and so on. Most of the feminists I know personally have been involved in activism at some point in their lives.
>Since we're all sharing: I don't do volunteering because I don't have time (I'm very busy at my job and I spend most of my free time resting from it). But at work I do my best to mentor students (most of them female) and I also do microlending (i.e. lending money to small businesses who get their applications for a loan rejected by regular banks because they're too small) on Kiva. Most of these businesses are owned and run by women in Third World countries, but you can lend money to men, too.
>To be fair, Nick does enough whining for 10 MRAs, so he definitely does his part for the cause.
>To be really fair (and not just pretend to be) most social movements probably are 99% talk, 1% action. It takes a lot of discussion and education, not to mention fund raising, to organize a movement to effect social change. For every SNCC activist who sat in at a lunch counter, there were probably quite a few more people who answered phones, wrote letters, did fund raising, etc. Social movements don't just happen spontaneously. What's different about the internet age is that we get to see some of the debates playing out in blog forums. It is entirely possible that the MRM will organize to actually put their agenda into action (whatever that agenda may be). I just haven't seen it yet.
>Exactly, Capt. Bathrobe. MRA says "X isn't fair. Why don't feminists fix that?"Feminists "We're sort of busy taking care of issue Y. If X is that important for you then why don't you do something about it?"MRA "Ack. Shaming tactics. You are trying to make us feel bad for not doing anything to support issues X when most women aren't doing anything about Y."Feminisit: "Yes. Most people aren't socially active. But we are and we're working on Y. That has nothing to do with X."MRA "If you don't fix X then you must hate men. X isn't fair. Do something about X"Rinse. Repeat.
>I love how the MRAs that are usually constantly complaining how feminists are taking over everything in the world and poisoning it with feminism now suddenly think feminists do nothing to further their cause. Which is it, are we brutally conquering the legal system and stealing babies or just sitting around chatting?
>I checked out your post and some of the comments in the bit of spare time I've had this evening. Just came across this little bit….Factory says: March 9, 2011 at 8:27 pm Actually, the misogyny (what little of it there is) in the Mens Movement…ROTFLMAO!!! Yep, there's one that's well-grounded in reality.
>I'll just post here what I posted over there:It’s as if David Futrelle didn’t read the “Meet the Men’s Rights Movement.” David spends his time quoting the most radical and simple minded representations of MRA’s. He fails to acknowledge the fact that feminists take the MRM very seriously. The gnashing of teeth by main stream feminists when the Male Studies initiative (http://www.malestudies.org/) got up and running was incredible. As mentioned in the Meet the Men’s Rights Movement piece, MRA’s have had much success in areas of family law. Furthermore, MRA’s have changed the narrative in the slandering feminist concept of “Rape Culture.” Take a look at David. A good analogy is like a prison guard. Prisoners are forced to live in a prison. Prison guards live there by choice. David goes to the most radical MRA sights and spends his days there. Now that, my friends, is kind of creepy.
>Hide: “(If you live near a major city there is going to be another March for Choice on March 26th.) “Is that choice for everyone? Or Just women? Some issues are close enough for both genders to be tackled simultaneously, by making the issue gender neutral.BathRobe: “It takes a lot of discussion and education, not to mention fund raising, to organize a movement to effect social change.”Thank you for acknowledging this. This is especially true when there is another already established ideology and movement that actively opposes and attempts to discredit the emerging movement. The smear campaign being waged by David, equating the hateful comments of some as representative of all (including Glen Sacks, whom in the comments, you claimed was responsible for 25 activists being belligerent to that shelter, based solely on the comments of a handful of people on the spearhead in response to that hateful baby “redefine manhood” ad), doesn’t help (the hateful comments themselves don’t help ether, but as Dworkin proved for feminists, that kind of hate can be overcome. though having people use them to smear the entire movement is something feminists didn’t need to endure).Missy: “Feminists "We're sort of busy taking care of issue Y. If X is that important for you then why don't you do something about it?"”MRA “we did. Our issues got buried under a pile of feminist propaganda BS, accusations of abuse, attacks on our character and then cries that women suffer from the same or similar problem, and the solutions they already have in place aren’t effective enough… IE, turning the discussion into an opportunity to advocate women instead of men, as it had began.”“Feminisit: "Yes. Most people aren't socially active. But we are and we're working on Y. That has nothing to do with X."”What is it you do for feminism?David:I suppose this article finally proves that the disclaimer at the side is just for show, to be used as a scapegoat to avoid blame. You should like take it down if you seek to maintain any degree of honesty