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| Non-haters also gonna hate. |
The “Rant you very much” section of NiceGuy’s MGTOW [Men Going Their Own Way] forum is the place for commenters to post stuff that they think might be too crazy and “out there” for the forum’s other sections. Given what else is posted over on NiceGuy’s — the stomping ground of a fellow named Nightstorm and his wild fantasies of moustrap vaginas and leech women — this is a tall order indeed.
NiceGuy richbansha tried his best to live up to these high expectations with a recent rant titled “Why not hate?” Why bother to pretend that we don’t hate women, rich asks his fellow NiceGuys, when this won’t actually do us any good? As for him, he admits his hatred up front. (I’ve taken the liberty of bolding some expecially ranty bits in the quote below, and adding a paragraph break.)
Do I “hate women”? You bet your ass! …
[T]he most common reason why one of us will deny the possibility that we hate them is not not look bad. Is there any doubt that they don’t hate YOU or that those listening in wouldn’t just as soon see you violated? … No matter what you do, you can still expect the most inconscionable treatment at the hands of AW [American Women]. If the response to both kindness and cruelty are identical, what is the reason for such a lopsided favoritism for appeasement?
When saying that you want to rape and cut up a woman with a band saw is met with the exact same reaction as saying you want to want to buy them a drink, what … is the incentive to not be hateful and violent? We have seen for ourselves that refraining only makes you are more likely target for hatred and violence. … So when a stinking cavern gets out of hand why not pulp her? You know you want to. Does anyone really think that stopping yourself or saying you would stop yourself will make it any easier on you?
In a followup post, he blames it all on the alleged tendency of women to adore “bad boys” and treat kind, considerate nice guys — richbansha apparently thinks he is, or at least was, one of them — like dirt:
My fate was decided in 7th grade when that girl said I had cooties. … If you ever got a “P” in the box on your report card that says “Respects the rights of others” then you are a marked man. …
I have suffered far more for the things that I had nothing to do with than any active and intentional infraction that I ever committed. … Who do skanks even call the cops on? Violent meth dealer Bf who routinely beats her and impregnates her or the honest, hardworking auditor who pays for the meth dealer’s offspring? Is it any wonder that I think dudes should get on the good side of that equation?
The “good side,” of course, being the side of of the girlfriend-beating “bad-boy” meth dealer.
So, yeah, that’s what a rant on NiceGuy’s looks like.
More interesting to me than the actual rant, though, are the responses of others in the forum. TheDude suggested he tone it down a bit:
So you think that violence may be the answer when there are thousands of cops who would love to beat your ass because you “disrespected a lady?” I think talking about it on this board just makes us a target and it is bad advice.
In other words, the voice of reason in this discussion frames his advice in entirely self-interested terms: Don’t attack women because then cops will beat your ass. Don’t talk like this on the forum, because it makes MGTOW look bad.
And then there are those who chime in to say they didn’t hate women … but. There is always a “but.” A couple of the “buts” are fairly mild and inoffensive. the american, echoing the famous Dr. Freud, notes
I don’t hate women. I just don’t understand their thought processes.
Our friend Yohan goes a little further (bold in original):
I am not hateful or violent, but I am highly MISTRUSTING against all and everything a Western female will ever tell me.
It’s not only about my past, it’s about the present legal situation in feminist countries, which encourages females of any age to consider men of any age, even young boys and old people, even your own father as nothing but trash except for quick money supply.
About hate, it should be said, hate is really bad for your health cousing heart problems, stomach problems etc..
And then there are … these. Richard Cranium blames those evil Sufragettes (and the manginas who loved them) for it all:
It’s not a matter of hating women per se, it’s hating what they’ve become, or more specifically what manginas have let them become. As has been stated here & elsewhere, the day we let them out of the kitchen and let them vote was the day it all went to hell.
Big R takes his non-hatred to a whole other level:
I dont hate them either. I want them to live to see how lonely and suicidal they,ll become when they find out all the men have dumped them forever in the feminized world. I want them to live and suffer without men or the attention they receive from us. …
I have turned out just a little vengeful towards women for the treatment I have received from them throughout my life. Just seeing an AW maybe lying on the sidewalk after a drunken suicidal depressive drinking binge after being dumped and cheated on would brighten up my day.
Our friend Yohan obliged this last wish by posting a photo of a drunk woman lying on the floor in what appears to be a pool of her own urine, with a friendly little note advising Big R to “have a nice day.”
So very considerate, these Men Going Their Own Way.
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>Wow, now I remember why Germaine Greer is known for being such a transphobe.I'm adding another "used to be a Nice Guy and then grew up." It helps when you learn that women are people too.I still wonder how these people can have presumably met actual women, and how they can be straight when they find women so physically repulsive.
> Benjamin said… I still wonder how these people can have presumably met actual women, and how they can be straight when they find women so physically repulsive. MRAs do not find ALL women so physically repulsive as you presume without any evidence, you are wrong.Most MRAs are straight and many of them are married but they choose their wife carefully.What's wrong with that?I do not drink alcohol. – I know in your feminist eyes that's already misogynistic selfish and boring, but sorry I am not interested into a partnership with a female psycho who is an alcoholic and drug-abuser.And what is wrong with a male being straight anyway? I know also women, who are openly straight and are interested sexually only into men and not into women.
>Yohan, you're fighting with yourself again. Try listening to what others are saying and their positions won't seem so ridiculous.Also, your english is usually pretty good but your last sentence was way off. It should be something like:"I also know women who are openly straight and only interested in men sexually and not women."
>(Hint, no one is saying there is anything wrong with being straight or that not liking drunks makes you misogynist or selfish)
>@ Yohan:Perfectly fair, I am (contrary to popular opinion of women in general) also not interested in a relationship with a psycho alcoholic drug-abuser. I certainly don't think that makes me a misandrist. Of course, not every person who drinks is an alcoholic or drug abuser. I also, despite being an American woman raised by Americans, do not view my father, brother, boyfriend or male friends as 'trash.' If you want us to stop generalizing about what MRAs think, say or do, then knock it off with the generalizing about what American/Western women think, say and do. Some MRAs think women are disgusting subhumans, and some women see men as a meal ticket. But just because some do it, doesn't mean that all of them do. And the feminist movement is quick to criticize the women who view men as a meal ticket – is the MRA as quick to criticize men who write about the repulsiveness of women?
>n00b here. First time post.Anyway, you have to realize that if these type of guys could only commit a crime harsh enough to put them in the loony-bin for life they could find lots and lots of HB10's!Exhibit A:Caged CasanovaYaknow, can I just say something right here and right now about the whole MRA/PUA bullcrap about women loving "killers"?Mentally ill people attract like you idiot phucks! Do you think normal, sane, attractive women are attracted to psychos and whack-jobs? Uhm. NO. Since most whack-jobs don't find love until they are in hospital with other whack-jobs when normally both sexes of said whack-jobs would have never interacted or been in a co-ed situation for a long time unless some sort of 'event' or 'violence' happened to force them into said situation.Hermit psycho love does not equate hypergamy and just because your ugly ass got rejected, don't forget that some ugly ass girl got rejected by some ugly ass guy like you too. It's called being painfully ugly and it happens to both sexes.
>The idea of the ideal man is a woman with a dick. — Germaine Greer —Except she never said that.
>The idea that she said this must come from somewhere, who else could say something like that? And I think, it's a funny comment compared to her general hateful rhetoric.Greer: I have a great deal of difficulty with the idea of the ideal man. As far as I'm concerned, men are the product of a damaged gene. November 1991
>Lady Victoria von Syrus said… @ Yohan:…..If you want us to stop generalizing about what MRAs think, say or do, then knock it off with the generalizing about what American/Western women think, say and do. …..Some MRAs think women are disgusting subhumans, and some women see men as a meal ticket. But just because some do it, doesn't mean that all of them do. As you said correctly, SOME do it, and how many are 'SOME'? 50 percent, or more? or less?How do you know as a man in advance, who will do it and who will not?As a woman – in general – you do not have any risk – the financial risk that something is going wrong is solely with the man.The problem is clearly with the present legal situation in feminist countries, which encourages women to 'take as much as they can' even decades after divorce.These men mentioned below can pay, but what happens with men who cannot pay? Living in a van, or in jail or what?One example:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1331925/Lottery-winner-Nigel-Page-pay-ex-wife-2m-left-10-years-ago.htmlA lottery winner has been left appalled after the wife who left him for another man ten years ago was able to grab £2million of his winnings.Or what about something like that…http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1163455/I-need-53-000-week-just-cover-basic-expenses-Estranged-wife-demands-100million-divorce-trial.htmlSwedish-born Countess Marie Douglas-David, 36, has claimed that the $43million deal outlined in a postnuptial agreement is not enough for her to live on.The former investment banker says she has no income and needs more than $53,000 a week from her American estranged husband, United Technologies chairman George David, in order to cover her expenses.And the feminist movement is quick to criticize the women who view men as a meal ticket… I never heard or read anything like that in my life. Do you have any reference for that?For example this article below does not confirm what you say….….the agenda of women's rights was based on the premise that you can fix equality for women with no reference at all to men.
>"I've never really understood why "mangina" is supposed to be an insult."–RaulSo, you like being used? It's supposed to mean you are a fool that lets yourself be a doormat and be exploited by others (espeically women), or believe by sucking up to women you can garner their favor. Among a few other things.
>"And the feminist movement is quick to criticize the women who view men as a meal ticket…"I've never heard this, either.
>"They are so funny because they think their hate makes them special."—ValerieEven more funny is that feminists think their own hate makes them even better. And entitled.
>""I've never really understood why "mangina" is supposed to be an insult."–RaulSo, you like being used? "Are you implying vaginas exist solely to be used?
>ch3f said… n00b here. First time post.Yaknow, can I just say something right here and right now about the whole MRA/PUA bullcrap about women loving "killers"?…..Do you think normal, sane, attractive women are attracted to psychos and whack-jobs? Uhm. NO Uhm. NO? Are you sure?Maybe you reconsider, sometimes YES…http://www.salon.com/life/feature/2011/02/07/married_a_prisoner/index.htmlMy husband, the convicted murderer…..I called Kate, my closest confidante and told her I had met a fascinating man. "But he's in prison for murder," I said with a grim laugh.In her usual unflappable way, Kate calmly told me a story of a friend she'd had a long time ago in Hollywood. She'd met a man in prison, too — and married him……On parole….. after 18 months, I asked him to leave. We divorced that year.Or what about this one:http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/81382517.htmlDeputy wrote love letters to murdererDetentions deputy Margarita Young was arrested Monday on suspicion of having sex with high-profile murderer Timothy Titus Rodriguez was he was incarcerated in the pre-trial facility.Rodriguez was sentenced to death last week for killing 90-year-old Thelma Long and beating her 59-year-old daughter….. Not enough reading stuff yet?http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3239215/Woman-prison-teacher-suspended-for-filming-pornographic-film-with-murderer.htmlA WOMAN prison teacher was suspended for filming a porn movie of her having sex in jail with a murderer. Beverley Van-de-Velde, 59, shot the romp with killer Richard Francis, 29, in a high security jail's staff room. ….. discovered the 17-minute DVD among hundreds of love letters she wrote to him in his cell. ….. having unprotected sex with Francis in several positions. The feared gang leader was caged for 13 years for murder … and another story…http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3191452/Prison-governors-wife-accused-of-naked-romp-with-convict.htmlA PRISON governor's wife has been accused of romping naked with a lag serving life. She and Raphael – serving at least 20 years for attempted murder – were said to have been found in an embrace by another officer. A source said last night: "She was on the prison's thinking skills programme. The prison's thinking skills programme….http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2564533/Prison-officer-alleged-to-be-selling-sex-in-prison.htmlA FEMALE prison officer has been suspended after allegations that a convict paid £50 for sex.How many more links do you need to show you that women are frequently in thugs, regardless in or outside of a jail?
>"Do you think normal, sane, attractive women are attracted to psychos and whack-jobs? Uhm. NOUhm. NO? Are you sure?Maybe you reconsider, sometimes YES…"You think these are normal, sane women? Most women do not think this way.There are not enough psychos and whackjobs out there to use the women who are psycho groupies to make any determination about what the average woman likes.If you don't want people judging MRAs on the basis of a few nuts then you can't judge women on the basis of a few nuts.
>Some kind of statistical analysis indicating the trend is significant in comparison to, I don't know, the number of people who watch janitor porn?Also, where is proof underscoring your implied assertion that these women meet ch3f's qualifiers, i.e. are "normal, sane, attractive?" (Since if they don't, they can't serve as counterexamples.)*FWIW, I'm not much of a fan of ch3f's argument. Sometimes people are attracted to people who will not create healthy relationships with them. I have known ladies who thought the genuine nice guys were boring, and chose to date the assholes who sabotaged their contraception instead. I have also known dudes who prefer women who use hard-core drugs, and dudes who consistently pick women who are less intelligent than they are because they find that an attractive quality and then later get bored with them. I have no problem with any of these choices, qua choices, except inasmuch as they don't accomplish what my friends tell me they want. If the guy who dates hard-core drug users tells me that he wants to date people who are open to the metaphysical experience of chemically altered consciousness, then fine. If he tells me later that he really wants a stable relationship and can't figure out why most of his girlfriends are sad and unstable, then I might consider pointing out to him that while there are probably hard-core drug users who are also stable enough to provide what he wants, he probably needs to include stability as a priority when he looks for new partners, and possibly also to understand that the group of people he'll be able to find who meet both criteria may be smaller than if he dropped one of them.People pick partners for all sorts of reasons, good and bad. Sometimes they're reasons I agree with. Sometimes they aren't. That doesn't make them objectively good or bad.And it's not as simply correlated to "sane" as ch3f's somewhat ableist comment makes it out to be.What I can't figure out is, at this point in my life, the men I'm attracted to are generally shy, kind, and beta. Does that get me MRA points because I'm not interested in thugs and alphas? Or does their being shy and kind make them "manginas?" It kind of seems like no matter how a woman conducts herself, she will still be seen in a negative light. Almost as if the common denominator were some kind of bias like, I don't know, misogyny.
>So Yohan What would be worse, being a woman in love with a cold blooded killer or being a cold blooded killer?Next question cupcake . Do female killers get fan mail from men? (the answer is yes).What is worse, being a thug or dating a thug?All in all your statements come across as making men look worse then women. I know this wasn’t your intention.Normal, sane people know that thugs date thugs. Normal sane people know that the underclass dates the underclass, ie: gang members date the girl who grew up in the projects with him. Normal sane people know that people almost always stay within their own social economic group. Are they exceptions? Of course there are but not only are they rare they rarely work out well.I attended Ridley College. How many of my classmates do you think marrying women or men beneath their station in life? (Sorry if that comes across as pompous). The answer as far as I know is none, and btw divorce is very rare amongst my high school peers. How is it a surprise that people in the ghettos of life end up together?
>Yup, many MRAs are married, but to the women that "are the exception" – who are told so, repeatedly, that THEY get it, that THEY are not like those femi-nazis who hate men, that THEY aren't like those bitches who want to take their money and children, etc. etc. etc. It is conditioning, in a way, to accept their MRA activities. What are you going to be, a bitch about it?They love the sensationalist stories of multi-million dollar alimony agreements or other tiny portions of the population to reinforce these views – any rape allegations dropped, anything.
>jupiter9: You think these are normal, sane women? Normal or not, what does this matter?The problem is that feminists doing their best to excuse such behavior.These examples are good examples, as it is very difficult to blame a man who is already in a jail cell.These women – normal or not – are these so-called strong independent women, working as journalist, a teacher, a prison deputy, a prison governor's wife….these women were not housewives – or you might call them doormats etc…These reports – I made a short yahoo search – are only about women with men in jail, but what about all these many girls/women with strong preference for thugs who are still outside and not behind bars yet?What about this youth thug and his girl thugs…http://galitsin.wordpress.com/2009/09/02/13-year-old-thug-filmed-pals-torturing-teenage-girl-in-45-minute-beating/A boy of 13 filmed his female friends torturing a girl for 45 minutes.He goaded the girls into kicking, punching and stripping the 14-year-old.And he ordered the attackers – aged 13 and 14 – to kick the victim’s head like a football on the count of three. It was always like that. If the boy/man is a thug, he is doing something which is 'not boring' and the girls admire him. No problem to find any girlfriend. EXACTLY my personal experience when I was still in high school many years ago. I was 15 or 16 years old, a girlfriend for me? No way. What can I offer? Nothing.Girls for a boy-thug in burglary/robbery/assault? How many you need?Maybe feminists could tell all these single moms and their daughters to stay away from thugs and choose their personal contacts more carefully instead blaming boys/men (those without criminal record) for all and everything.I am totally fed up with this feminist BS-talk, telling me about privileges as a male. I never had any privileges.
>Some MRAs think women are disgusting subhumans, and some women see men as a meal ticket.This is not a fair comparison. "Women" is not a voluntarily chosen ideological group. That's why othering and generalizing them is both irrational and harmful.MRAs choose the label. The label doesn't describe their genitals or their expected role in society, it describes what they believe. And what the label describes is hatred for women. I have no problem generalizing MRAs. If a person doesn't want to be seen as a misogynist, they should distance themselves from the label.A lot of people on the non-crazy side of the fence still seem to insist of hedging and saying "well there's probably good things about the MRA movement too," apparently in the interest of sounding civil.There aren't good things about the MRA movement. Plain and simple. The entire idea of "men's rights" is born of hatred for women. The denial that men already occupy the privileged position in society is misogynistic. Yes, patriarchy does hurt men, too, but all the ways in which it hurts men are side effects of elements of the system designed to oppress women. Feminism helps both men and women by attempting to dismantle traditional notions of gender, so we don't need a separate "men's rights" movement.The men's rights movement fights hard for traditional notions of gender, all the while pretending that that makes them edgy and brave.It's the same as the people who think that American society is easier on minorities than it is on whites. Those people are racist. They're not just misguided or confused, nor do they have "some good points." They're racist.
>"These examples are good examples, as it is very difficult to blame a man who is already in a jail cell.These women – normal or not – are these so-called strong independent women, working as journalist, a teacher, a prison deputy, a prison governor's wife….these women were not housewives – or you might call them doormats etc…"I don't call "housewives" doormats. Feminists are among those who have worked to recognize all work as work, even if it happens inside a house or with children.And look again at the list — teacher? That's a stereotypical woman's job. Prison governor's wife? Wha? That's kind of the definition of someone who gets her status from her husband, if that's all you can use to identify her."Maybe feminists could tell all these single moms and their daughters to stay away from thugs and choose their personal contacts more carefully instead blaming boys/men (those without criminal record) for all and everything."Feminists aren't the queen bees that direct the activities of all the other girl bees.Feminists tend to be less charmed by "bad boy" behavior than "normal" women. Why? Bad boys provide vicarious excitement. If you are in control of your own life, you can find your excitement through your own means and not have to get it from a man.Unless you count as "bad boys" the kind of men who don't wear a suit.
>Hey, the unemployment rate is way higher for blacks than for whites. Obviously, they're just lazy. You know, with a few exceptions.
>I'm edgy! I bet none of you ever thought of saying that! Now watch the oppressive anti-white tyranny come shut me down! Come see the violence inherent in the system! Help! I'm being repressed!
>rachel-swirsky said… What I can't figure out is, at this point in my life, the men I'm attracted to are generally shy, kind, and beta. Does that get me MRA points because I'm not interested in thugs and alphas? Or does their being shy and kind make them "manginas?" I think, any woman who stays away from some certain people and certain places and is willing to talk face-to-face with a man (1-1 and not one group with another group) in a not-noisy nice environment, like in a park or restaurant etc. and shows some kindness and patience and not into shopping after the first 3 sentences (you buy me, I love you etc) will get what you call 'MRA-points' (interesting, the first time I hear that… MRA-points…that's a great idea!)About shy men etc. I think, many men are worried to say something 'wrong' which can be used against them later on. Men in USA often have no idea how they can find and talk to a woman without being worried to be interrupted immediately after the first sentence or being ridiculed by the girl. This behavior has nothing to do with being a 'mangina'.What MRAs consider as a mangina is totally different.
>triplanetary said… Feminism helps both men and women by attempting to dismantle traditional notions of gender, so we don't need a separate "men's rights" movement.That's the joke of the day.It's not you – the feminist – who decides, what is good for men and what is not.If men want to create their men's rights movement, they are fully entitled to do that.