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Manosphere men often complain about evil women attempting to drain them of their money. To which there really is a very simple solution: If you don’t want a girlfriend or wife who expects you to support her, don’t seek out women who expect you to support them.
This seems like a fairly common-sense strategy, and one that would simple enough for even the dullest of man boobz to remember. But apparently it has proved a little hard to put into practice.
For evidence of this, let’s return to our good friend Nightstorm — you know, the mousetrap-vagina, leech-women in the food court of doom guy on NiceGuy’s MGTOW forum. He’s back with another posting called “The List,“which is a list — naturally — of
the soul draining demands a woman puts on a man once their together. He MUST do these things to “make the relationship work”
The list is long, loopy, whiny, and filled with ridiculous things that MGTOWs and many MRAs tend to imagine that all women demand of all men (“Open all doors before and after for her”), but which have not actually been a part of any relationship I’ve ever been in. Aside from some complaints that are ridiculously petty (“Go to borning [sic] family out-goings”) and some that are weird paranoid fantasies (“You get your penis size and bed performance revealed to the sisterhood. Oh yes, their not laughing with you!”), the complaints come back, again and again, to money:
Pay for dinner …
Buying her yet another useless item she doesn’t need, like shoes or a brand new car ….
You get to pay for the privledge of being with this woman. …
You get to work while she lays around the house doing nothing. …
She can have the government garnish your wages to pay her just for being the female spouse. … You get to feel like the worthless scum you are and pay her for telling you that you are.
I’m not even sure what the fuck he’s even talking about with half of this shit.
But, again, there really is a simple solution to all these money issues. I’ll say it again, in bold this time: If you don’t want a girlfriend or wife who expects you to support her, don’t seek out women who expect you to support them.
This, evidently, is where Nightstorm’s grand strategy has gone a bit awry.
For, as I discovered from another posting of his from a few days back, it turns out that Nightstorm’s plan to totally avoid evil leech-like women apparently entails spending many hours flirting with women online. Indeed, he included a long transcript of an online chat he’d recently had with an (alleged) 18-year-old (alleged) girl who’d evidently decided after a couple of online chats that she wanted to be his girlfriend, despite the fact that the two of them have never actually met and in fact live in different states. (Hey, women can be idiots too.)
Nightstorm (posting as “shawnz”) decided they needed to set down the terms of their relationship, and began by asking her what she thought she brought to the relationship. She jokingly suggested: herself, her “sexy hair,” and her vagina.
[20:54] shawnz: if you become my GF..
[20:54] shawnz: I will get you, your sexy hair, and your vagina
[20:55] shawnz: and what do you expect out of me …
[20:55] [name redacted]: ur penis ur cuddles and ur texting/calling/being on cam and coming to visit!
[20:55] shawnz: ok, anything else
[20:56] [name redacted]: nope
That seems pretty straightforward. No mention of “family out-goings” or even paying for dinner.
Nightstorm then set out his terms for the relationship:
[20:58] shawnz: First, I want a girl who cooks and cleans the house, I want someone who doesn’t nag, cripe
[20:58] shawnz: bitch, or complain, someone who cuddles and anytime I want sex
[20:58] shawnz: someone who has ambition
[20:58] [name redacted]: demanding arent we lol
[20:58] shawnz: and someone who wants more than just love in the relationship, after all its hard work
Demanding, to be sure, lol, but he offers some things in return:
[20:59] shawnz: and what I offer is romance, a good paying salary for provision, and intimacy
[20:59] shawnz: I also offer you good self-esteem and reliability and faithfulness
Let’s pause for a moment to consider that bit in the middle after “romance”: “a good paying salary for provision.”
The two haven’t even met, and he’s already offering to support her financially.
It appears Nightstorm not only has not only bungled the whole “don’t pursue women who expect you to support them” strategy I have outlined above. He’s actually OFFERING TO SUPPORT A WOMAN WHO DOESN’T ACTUALLY EXPECT HIM TO SUPPORT HER.
It seems to me that if you want a woman who is financially dependent on you — you provide the money, she provides “anytime [you] want sex” — you pretty much forfeit your right to complain about her being financially dependent on you.
Fortunately for Nightstorm, [name redacted], and the rest of us on this planet, he decided that [name redacted] wasn’t serious enough to be his girlfriend. So, crisis averted. For now.
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>I love Nightstorm! He's my favorite manboob. I think he should have his own TV show.I love how epically he fucked this up. The girl wants a fairly standard casual relationship (sex, snuggles, attention)– I've done it loads of times. But instead of talking to the actual person on the line, he's talking to Girl Stereotype #14. Girl Stereotype #14 wants money– actual girl, not so much!What do you bet he decided she wasn't serious when she said "um, dude, I want sex and a casual relationship, not a Fifties marriage"? I really want to read the full The List, but I don't want to sign up for weirdosite. Someone in the comments help?
>My favorite is when the same complainers guilelessly shell out whatever it is the latest PUA guru o' the week is charging…
>That guy in the vintage ad looks a bit like Desi Arnez (I Love Lucy)."Lucy! You got some 'splainin' to do!"
>THE LIST1. Respect her2. Pay for dinner 3. Open all doors before and after for her.4. Pretend to not be staying at other chicks breasts.5. Listen intently at the most meaningless garbage you ever heard. Ex: She got her nails done or how she feels.6. Visit the Parents7. Visit her "Family".8. Go to borning family out-goings. 9. Visit and hang out with her friends.10. Waiting a hour for her to get ready for your date.11. Helping her move in to your place.12. Watching your manly items leave your house 1 by 1 while her trinkets flow everywhere. 13. Stop hanging out with the guys or friends because you have to spend time with her.14. Stop going to your occasionaly events because you have to spend time with her.15. Taking out the garbage.16. Going to the baby stores holding her hand while she asks you what you think of "this outfit for the baby?". 17. Going shopping with her. 18. Buying her yet another useless item she doesn't need, like shoes or a brand new car because she was bored with the old one.19. Constantly giving her compliments even if you can't think of anymore.20. Constantly trying to convince her that she really does look beautiful and isn't fat.21. Drain all your time and energy in a poor attempt at being romantic just to have sex. 22. Fighting and arguging that your not romantic enough (working hard enough), to have sex tonight.23. Nagging. Nuff said.24. Bitching. Nuff said.25. You will tell her your deepest most darkest secrets, and you get the joys of hearing them all over again back in your face the next fight.26. Mood swings that put you in a roller coaster ride. What will tomorrow bring? Nothing good I can assure you.27. You get to hear that laugh and giggle. It was cute at first, but now it annoying as hell.28. You get to pay for the privledge of being with this woman.29. You get to work while she lays around the house doing nothing. You might find a decent one who will occasionaly clean but ask for your help.30. You get your penis size and bed performance revealed to the sisterhood. Oh yes, their not laughing with you!31. Gossip Gossip and more Gossip. She can't get enough to tell on you. 32. What you thought was love forever and a endless supply of sex has now become a dry land of pussy begging. 33. You get your own children as hostages in the marriage.34. You get your own children as hosstages in divorce.35. She can take at minimal 50% of your money just because you married her, nothing else. 36. She can have the government garnish your wages to pay her just for being the female spouse. 37. You get to watch her beautiful exterior age.. and get old.. and start to decay on you. 38. You get to change diapers.39. You get to have meetings. You'll know they are in session with the opening phrase "we need to talk". 40. You get to fight atleast 3 times a week over absolutely nothing. Yes, absolutely nothing. 41. You will get your manhood shamed over and over again.42. You get to feel like the worthless scum you are and pay her for telling you that you are. 43. You get to cry yourself to sleep at night while envying all the single guys. 44. You get to believe hell is a free ride out of here. 45. After 20 years, you wake up to this man-hating blob that stole your freedom, virginity, resources, energy, and time.
>"How she feels"="meaningless garbage," on a par with "getting her nails done."
>Thank you very much!Most of this alternates between "decent human being" (dude, I have to change diapers too, it's not like I invented the concept to fuck with you) and "DTMFA" (fighting three times a week? Seriously, break up already).
>That list has scared me off of marriage.
>Wow. If you want a quiet, unthinking, unfeeling female that will give you sex whenever you want and won't complain and has no family … just buy a blow-up doll already. Or are those too "sensitive," always needing your attention to reinflate and make sure you don't pop them?
>I like how "shoes" and "new car" are like, totally the same expense or something. How about a candy bar? Some Mountain Dew? A pack of smokes?But I have to say, number 45 really takes the cake. The "your virginity" added to the list says it all. Yeah, there's healthy, well-adjusted people out there who don't have sex for whatever reason, but this really isn't well-adjusted. I mean, he does realize that you don't have to get married to have sex, and that there are people out there who just want sex? And that you don't have to marry your girlfriend? Or that most people usually start off causally?
>Wow. I just read The List. I feel really sorry for Nightstorm and any other person (male or female) who views love relationships as primarily being adversarial in nature. If you're in a relationship where you're fighting three times a week, are sexually unsatisfied and feel nothing but contempt and annoyance for your partner… yeah, DTMFA. Relationships are supposed to require some effort, but if you're upset more often than you're happy, you're doing it wrong, or are with the wrong person. I wonder if perhaps Nightstorm's parents had an unhappy marriage which they kept together 'for the kids' sake.' I know my folks did, and it took me awhile to unlearn the bad habits I thought were normal.
>So, he watched a movie or something? I mean, this is the guy who already told us that he's never slept with anyone, so I'm assuming he's never moved in with a woman, or bought anyone a car, or impregnated anyone. Hell, I question whether any woman has ever asked him to meet her parents.The beauty part to me is, not only is he making sure his potential girlfriend from before the time their relationship even begins knows that he's willing to support her financially–he's actually promising to do almost everything he's complained suck about relationships. He's going to give her endless romance (#21). He's going to boost her self esteem (#19 and #20). And he's already letting her know that this is not going to be any fun at all! It's hard work, goddammit!Well, shit. A relationship with Nightstorm sounds like no fun at all. Sadly, people get what they ask for. If he ever finds a woman who lets him near her, I'm sure it'll end up being exactly as horrible as he says they all are. [name redacted] is almost certainly stupid, but she's lucky as hell.
>Also: Is it just me, or does "Nightstorm" sound like a euphemism for "bedwetter" to anyone else?
>In the absolute worst relationship I was ever in, I think only 4 of the 45 actually applied. Six if you count the 2 about meeting parents and relatives, but actually I enjoyed that. (Her sister was cool; her mom was a great cook who insisted on feeding me until I was stuffed.) In my current relationship, only #1 applies: "Respect her."
>I love how "Family" is in scare quotes for no apparent reason.
>The female chauvinist in this day and age is very common and passes as something that's sociacally acceptable and PC. Yet, that exact term (even that it's the ultimate truth) will get pulled under the rug
>Obeying a woman = respectObeying a man = slavery
>Where on Earth do you get the idea that respect equals obedience or slavery? Respect doesn't mean doing whatever the other person says. It means taking someone else's wishes and desires into account when deciding what you yourself want to do. It means not telling someone they're wrong just because they happen to disagree with you.
>Article: "To which there really is a very simple solution: If you don't want a girlfriend or wife who expects you to support her, don't seek out women who expect you to support them. "I'm curious David, when was the last time you were in the dating scene? Put some perspective on your expertise on the subject matter.Article: "The list is long, loopy, whiny, and filled with ridiculous things that MGTOWs and many MRAs tend to imagine that all women demand of all men"Attributing this guys one opinion with all MRA's? I thought you didn't do this? In addition, I don't see any indication that these are things MRA's see in ALL woman placing on ALL men. And just for clarification, I also don't think women are seen as doing everything on the list ether. I can't be certain, I'm not signed into that forum, but from what you've posted, that's what I get.As for the list itself, some things are actually quite benign, and the fact he's adding them makes me think he's a bitter divorced 1930's style ex-husband. Some of the things however are very typical, and I see them in almost every marriage amongst my friends. Several of the items aren't typical, but do show up in at least of the 1 marriages I know. The most common of these is the loss of access to male friends… We have a regular sunday's guys night, so it's not like opportunity isn't there. It's getting wife permission, or the inevitable consequences of going without it, that causes problems.Bee: "I mean, this is the guy who already told us that he's never slept with anyone,"There is an alternative, he may have married young to a woman, and devised the list based on that experience. In fact, that seems a far more likely scenario.
>@nick:Who said anything about obeying anyone? That's a connection you made yourself, that's straight out of your head. I'm not willing to be in a relationship with someone who expects me to obey them, but I am equally unwilling to be in a relationship with anyone who expects me to lead them and make decisions which they obey. Both of those options seem like a recipe for a difficult relationship, and I have always believed that if one's relationships are hard work (more angst than elation) it's because it's the wrong relationship, and both members would probably be happier somewhere else.
>Lady V: "It means not telling someone they're wrong just because they happen to disagree with you."I find the irony of this being posted on this board to be immensely entertaining. Not making an accusation against you specifically, but the blog in general.
>Kratch: I'm curious David, when was the last time you were in the dating scene?Last summer. Again, I wonder where these guys are meeting women if the women they're meeting are all like this. (With Nightstorm, that's not the case: he's simply imposing his expectations on the women he's meeting, or at least on [name redacted] here.)Attributing this guys one opinion with all MRA's?Nope. I have seem numerous examples of MGTOWs/MRAs making very similar arguments. That's why I felt safe to generalize. The word "all" in my post is only a slight exaggeration. MGTOWs, after all, tend to swear off ALL women, or at least ALL western women. As for the list itself, some things are actually quite benign, and the fact he's adding them makes me think he's a bitter divorced 1930's style ex-husband.He's a 25-year old virgin, by his own description. The most common of these is the loss of access to male friendsWelcome to the real world, in which people have competing demands on their time. Of course, if one person in a relationship (male or female) is demanding that the other *never* see his or her friends, that's a problem. But that's not typical. For me that would be a sign that the relationship wasn't healthy and I would get out.
>SallyStrange: I love how "Family" is in scare quotes for no apparent reason.All women are in the mafia.
>Gee I guess it's too much to ask these menchildren to respect their SO's. Especially since respect is something that BOTH people in a relationship have to have for each other. I think nightstorm needs to get in line for one of the sex robots of the robotpocalypse instead of dating real women
>"Where on Earth do you get the idea that respect equals obedience or slavery?"When feminists talk about "patriarchy" an awful lot.In a social view, men are stereotyped to be domineering or control freaks. For that, when a man simply asks women to change this or that or do this or that, it more likely comes off in that way as the patriarchal, domineering male. Yet when a woman acts the same, the thought of her being domineering and controlling is a million miles away
>If the woman you are in a relationship with is an 18 year old then chances are you might have to financially support her. You know why? BECAUSE SHE'S 18! Unless she's heiress to a fortune or has been in a very unusual circumstance then she isn't going to have much money. If you want her to dress a certain way, have the best hairstyle, and look like a model then you better pay for it. You know why?BECAUSE SHE'S 18.On the other hand you could find a woman who is older (mid 20s or 30s) who has gone to school and has a career. These women are less likely to expect you to buy them things because they can buy stuff for themselves. Then again, they are also going to have higher standards for the guys they want to date. Either because they are evil bitches (MRA answer) or because they have enough self-confidence that they would rather be single than date anything that comes along their path. So, it's your choice. You can date women who can take care of themselves, but then you risk being rejected because these women don't need you. Or you can date helpless women and have to pay for them to survive because they are dependant on you. Or wait for that sex robot to come along. But then that stupid bitch will probably expect you to change its oil or something.