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| Don’t ever say this to the guys at The Spearhead |
These days I mostly ignore the people who attack me and this blog online, because I’m sick of internet drama and have no interest in stirring that particular sort of shit. But there’s one discussion going on at the moment that I think is worth mentioning, because it provides as interesting snapshot of the manosphere at the current moment.
Over on The Spearhead, a certain MRA who used to comment here at great length is suggesting that Spearheaders tone down their rhetoric so that “a site called mamboobz.com” won’t quote them and, by exposing their crazy talk to the light of day, possibly make the men’s rights movement look bad.
Never mind that the regulars at The Spearhead aren’t all MRAs and I don’t identify them as such. That’s not the point. The point is this:
The person making the suggestion is Eoghan. And his mild and in fact quite sensible suggestion has not gone over well with the locals. Indeed, one of the regulars, SingleDad,compared him to “a Jewish person in Germany telling all the others who are complaining about their fears as they are loaded on the trains headed for the concentration camp to quiet down or the Nazi’s might get angry.” Another added, “I won’t make you wet your panties by calling you a mangina, especially since you seem to be either a doofus or a cunt.”
After a bit more back and forth, SingleDad came back with what can only be called a direct threat:
You sir are a traiter to your gender. .. You would hold our hands as they lead us into the gas chamber.Your a collaborator. You know what men do to collaborators, right?Expect the same from me. Count on it.
Again, SingleDad isn’t talking about me. He’s talking about Eoghan. Eoghan! As anyone who has been reading the comments on this blog for any length of time is well aware, Eoghan is about as far from a feminist as you can get; indeed, he’s a dyed-in-the-wool MRA ideologue, and I actually banned him here some time ago because of his consistently disruptive behavior. But because he challenges not what they say but the way they say it, the guys at The Spearhead evidently see him as some sort of fem-symp if not the equivalant of a Nazi collaborator.
Naturally, all of Eoghan’s posts have been heavily downvoted by the regulars, and the attacks on him, including SingleDad’s threat, have gotten multiple upvotes.
I’m not going to post a bunch more comments from this surreal “debate.” Obviously you all can head over and read the whole thing if you like. But I thought this one, from Poester00 and actually directed at me, was kind of telling:
Mr Manboobz is a low down slime, using comments posted here by third parties and NOT articles to attack this site.
Since I don’t think he is stupid and he’s extremely persistent at what he’s doing, it’s highly probable that he is either:
– being paid to continue by some interested third party with deep pockets, or
– is a victim of systematic child abuse by his mother or other female relative(s), so has been “Joe Bidened”
OR BOTH.It may be just a “job” to him but his words are supporting the hurting of real people. People will remember his words and what goes around comes around.
What goes around comes around?
Poester99, I’m not quite sure you understand the concept of karma.
Here’s what I did: I quoted some repugnant shit some dudes said on a web site, and made some sarcastic remarks about these comments.
Here’s what you did: you falsely accused my mother of child abuse.
I’m having a really hard time seeing how I’m the bigger asshole in this scenario.
Also: the paid shill thing? Not true. But if some “interested third party with deep pockets” wants to empty these pockets into my bank account, and won’t interfere with what I write in any way, I’d like to suggest that they contact me, like, right now.
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>"The MRAs may pretend to support the rights of black men and homosexuals. They do that by making up stories about how the KKK was really run by women so both white men and black men were really oppressed by women."—SteveYou haven't done your homework, obviously. http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~epf/1998/carney.htmlA section from the article:"Yet Blee argues that in order to fully understand the women’s Klan and its significance, attention must be paid to all the ways in which it appealed to its members, not merely the appeal to racist sentiment. For, as she points out, racism and intolerance were widespread throughout the country in the 1920s, especially in Indiana. Yet to view racism as the sole cause of Klan membership is to ignore the other motivations at work within Klan members. It is Blee’s contention that wome n joined the WKKK not merely because of bigoted tendencies, but also because the Klan provided a women’s rights-based agenda, the recognition of civic activism, and the chance to be heard collectively as women. At a time when suffrage, temperance, morali ty, and patriotism were causing political tensions to run high, the WKKK gave women a political voice with which to articulate their gender ideology, as well as a means of legitimizing their civic and social organizations. To further add to the strength of this appeal, Blee notes that much of this activism was carried out within the comfortable confines of normal, everyday community life. The chapter entitled "A Poison Squad of Whispering Women", discusses, in depth, the strength of the WKKK’s subtle tactics. Blee points out that while Klanswomen did not participate in the more visible forms of intimidation employed by the KKK (such as nightriding and lynching), their less blatant menacing was just as powerful. The fact that WKKK members co uld enjoy various degrees of public visibility therefore enabled both politically active women, and women content to remain in traditional arenas, to find a niche within the organization."
>I never cry. That's for females. …and for most of the leadership of the Republican party, like GWB, John Boehner – both notorious bawlers – and of course all those other Real Men on the right when they get outed as gay and/or adulterers. What a bunch of manginas, amirite?
>"I never cry. That's for females."Classic example of how patriarchal sexist standards of behavior hurt men as well as women. Anyone who literally NEVER cries should probably see a counselor or therapist, because crying is a natural human response to pain and distress. And who among us never encounters pain or distress? Everyone cries from time to time. Pretending you're too strong and tough to cry is just that, a pretense, and maintaining that pretense is damaging to anyone's mental health, male or female.
>"Classic example of how patriarchal sexist standards of behavior hurt men as well as women."—SallyStrangeAnd yet, when men do so, they get called out by the feminist Lydias of the world. Hypocrisy—-again.
>In my experience, wythch, feminist women have no problem with men crying. Whining, on the other hand, is another matter.
>wytch, yes, there were women in the Klan. There were also men in the Klan as well, in case you had forgotten. They were the ones who ran the Klan (the Women's Klan was an auxiliary); they were the ones doing the lynching. Yes, the women of the Klan were as hateful as the men, and contributed in their way to the oppression of black men and women (and Catholics, and immigrants, and Jews), but they weren't the ones running the show, or the ones responsible for the worst acts of hatred. Blee's book (which I've actually read, unlike you) is very sharp, an interesting examination of the ways in which certain aspects of progressive ideologies (women's rights) can be appropriated by right wing women. Just as certain aspects of feminist ideology have been appropriated by antifeminist women since the 1970s.
>"Classic example of how patriarchal sexist standards of behavior hurt men as well as women."—SallyStrange"And yet, when men do so, they get called out by the feminist Lydias of the world. Hypocrisy—-again." –WytcheWhen men do WHAT? Classic example of illiteracy.
>Oh, I see, when men cry–as in when Lydia said, "you leave a trail of insults and derogatory remarks, and then you cry when someone slaps back."Being that this is the internet, I'm pretty sure that was metaphorical crying she was referring to, Wytche. "Crying" meaning "whining and complaining." I'll refer to Capt. Bathrobe's comments.
>Er, wytch, Blee DOES NOT assert that women ran the Klan, ever. Her claim is that towards the end of the Second Klan (You can look up Klan movements for more on this, each Klan movement is somewhat distinct from the others) there was a subset of women in support roles who were/had been suffuragettes and had less traditional view of gender than the other Klan movements or the nazi and other white nationalist groups that followed it. There is evidence to support the claim that this is true, in large part from the intense opposition to it by many male members who stated that the growing involvement of women violated the Klan's policy of 'moral conservatism' which mandated male dominance in home and civil life (Blee notes herself that the phenomena she cites was not a part of the third Klan and did not carry over to other white nationalist groups after the collapse of the second Klan in the late 20s). To the WKKK or women were the primary controlling force behind even the second Klan is absurd and it is a claim that Blee does not make. One of Blee's central thesis revolves around the dynamics of women participating in anti-feminist right wing racist organizations, which is where she places the Klan. The forward of her book outlines the long anti-feminist history of the Klan, so stop pretending like a subgroup amoung a less powerful auxilory for a decade or so trumps this history. Also, for the five millionth time, "Women of a color exist!" Saying that white women are almost as or even as racist as white men and therefore racist organizations oppressed men ignores that half of people of color are women.
>@ Iris Vander PluymYep, crying is definitely a sign of manginahood.Random Brother
>@ Sally StrangeSally said: "Classic example of how patriarchal sexist standards of behavior hurt men as well as women. Anyone who literally NEVER cries should probably see a counselor or therapist, because crying is a natural human response to pain and distress. And who among us never encounters pain or distress? Everyone cries from time to time. Pretending you're too strong and tough to cry is just that, a pretense, and maintaining that pretense is damaging to anyone's mental health, male or female."I know many feminists will not believe it but men and women are vastly different and I don't believe that crying has the same "benefit" for men than for women.Random Brother
>"To the WKKK or women were the primary controlling force behind even the second Klan is absurd . . ."—SallyStrangerAnd you make a claim of my illiteracy?
>"One of Blee's central thesis revolves around the dynamics of women participating in anti-feminist right wing racist organizations, which is where she places the Klan."Your lack of reading comprehension is also evident here as well. Klan women wanted more rights and more of a voice, while still clinging to their bigoted views:"It is Blee’s contention that women joined the WKKK not merely because of bigoted tendencies, but also because the Klan provided a women’s rights-based agenda, the recognition of civic activism, and the chance to be heard collectively as women. At a time when suffrage, temperance, morality, and patriotism were causing political tensions to run high, the WKKK gave women a political voice with which to articulate their gender ideology, as well as a means of legitimizing their civic and social organizations."David, I think Sally is the one who hasn't read the book. Either that, or she doesn't comprehend the obvious.
>"Oh, I see, when men cry–as in when Lydia said, "you leave a trail of insults and derogatory remarks, and then you cry when someone slaps back.""—SallyStrangerThat's not what I meant. Strawman.
>"Also, for the five millionth time, "Women of a color exist!" Saying that white women are almost as or even as racist as white men and therefore racist organizations oppressed men ignores that half of people of color are women."—DarkSideCatI never ignored them. It's you making that mistake. As well as others in your description.