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| Spearhead readers: Not actually as cool as Fonzie. |
When sites enable users to upvote and downvote comments and posts, the rationale is generally that it improves discussion and filters out trolls. In practice, this is almost never the case; instead, the up and down arrows offer the majority a way to reward those who simply rehash the party line and punish those who dare suggest anything even remotely challenging. This punishment is accentuated on sites on which dissenters who are downvoted beyond a certain threshold see their comments literally vanish, unless readers click a special link to make them visible again.
We’ve seen in the past the sorts of things that get massively upvoted on The Spearhead. A comment suggesting that “a woman’s vagina/body is her one and only asset” got, at last count, 58 upvotes and only 4 downvotes. Comments suggesting that women are “parasites,” “dumb as bricks,” incapable of logic or empathy each got dozens of upvotes and only a handful of downvotes, as did comments suggesting that women should never have been given the right to vote. Heck, one recent comment suggesting that Daniel Hernandez was “a traitor to men” for helping to save Gabrielle Giffords’ life got twice as many upvotes as downvotes. (As I pointed out in a recent post, there were actually a number of comments in that vein; they all got more upvotes than downvotes)
So if these sorts of comments get upvoted, the question arises: what sort of horrible, beyond-the-pale nuttiness actually invites downvotes on the site? Well, in a recent guest posting there, someone calling himself Big Daddy From Cincinnati offered some (not really very good) internet dating advice for the misogynist masses. Along the way he opined that “women are amoral creatures, flakes, and they will reject you for anything, everything, nothing, the phase of the moon, or who knows what. They will lead you on and waste your time … . ”
While most commenters seemed to agree with this characterization of the ladies, one anonymous gal suggested instead that:
Yep, you can practically hear the Spearhead guys furiously downvoting that bit of heresy. What an outlandish opinion, clearly the work of an evil, misandrist troll! Probably a lesbian, too. I mean, what kind of crazy man-hating monster would she have to be not to be utterly smitten by the Spearhead men?
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>"It's irrational to assume that if some women think A, and other women think B, then all women simultaneously think A and B and want it both ways." It's irrational to assume that if some women prefer anal sex and other women prefer vaginal sex then all women want it both ways simultaneously. Had to do it.lol
>Vanity, cruelty, amorality, stupidity, deceit, selfishness, arrogance and greed are, in my humble opinion, not gender-specific characteristics.This is why I dislike the MRA movement, the Spearhead, and the self-styled-guru likes of Roissy and Roosh. They think the women are always ‘the bad guys.’ They’re not.I think that there are many, men and women, who hold the same humble opinion as yourself. Hell, I even think that we do each other great injustice by calling ourselves "opposite sexes", we're NOT polar opposites; which is NOT to say that we're identical, either. The issues that I have with MRAs includes just THAT, their dichotomous (and often contradictory) trains of thought.
>citizenlemonade said… In my experience of life, many women are delusional, unpleasant, entitled, unattractive fools. However, many men are also delusional, unpleasant, entitled, unattractive fools. Vanity, cruelty, amorality, stupidity, deceit, selfishness, arrogance and greed are, in my humble opinion, not gender-specific characteristics. This is why I dislike the MRA movement… OK, this is a very interesting statement, you explain to all of us that there are MANY bad women and MANY bad men, but it seems you dislike ONLY the MRA movement and not feminism. Somewhat single-sided opinion…isn't it?
>No pretty female ever showed up in my life and told me hey, nice man, come with me, I have a house, car, good income, just stay with me… Just hazarding a guess here, but perhaps the pretty females who have a house, car, good income, etc., aren't looking for a man who is a "traditionalist" or a patriarch, but, rather, one who will view them as a companion…..an equal partner.
>evilmalewhiteempire:If it’s not about ‘good versus evil but instead about ‘their evil versus our evil’ – then I quite agree that there would be an interesting debate to have along these lines. As I said, I am not the most politically correct of men. And I quite agree that – painting in the broadest and most general strokes – women and men both have separate areas in which they outdo the other in evil. As any high school teacher will tell you, the vast majority of severe physical violence is the province of boys. The vast majority of long-term emotional and psychological germ warfare is the province of girls. But it would be impossible to have this sort of debate with the vast majority of MRAs I have come across. For here, I run into another major issue I have with – not all, but many – MRA types. Who will furiously and blindly deny that their side is anything less than blameless, put-upon and heroic at all times. If a woman chooses a bad man, it’s because she’s a hypergamous bitch. If a man chooses a bad woman, it’s because he’s been duped by a hypergamous bitch. If a man abuses, lies to and deceives a woman, it’s high five, player. If a woman abuses, lies to and deceives a man, it’s burn the evil whoring slut at the stake. If a man follows his basic and brutal Darwinian nature to attract the youngest and most beautiful woman, he is a master of Game and a legend. If a woman follows her basic and brutal Darwinian nature to attract the richest and most powerful man, she is a hateful piece of trash. I simply cannot engage with people who have such ridiculous double standards and are so abjectly blind to their own shortcomings. As I have said before, some women are frankly scum. As are some men. But those last four words represent an admission that you will never find on any MRA-friendly blog in the world. In terms of comparing the genders’ good and bad points… in the MRA, I see an obsessive and endless focus on masculinity’s (highly generalized and in no way all-encompassing) good traits, combined with a complete and dangerous blindness to its less savoury ones. You cannot have it both waysFor example, if you wish to preen about your gender’s superior size, strength and physical fortitude, you cannot then claim that you are exactly as physically threatened by the prospect of domestic violence as those fragile little ladies you were recently dismissing as too weak and wimpish to serve in the police force. Or do anything more physically taxing than making you a cup of tea.But perhaps we will never agree. I don’t think of myself as a feminist. Simply a humanist and a realist. Many people out there are extremely unpleasant and cannot be trusted. Men and woman alike. Attempt to avoid them. The end. Yohan: I am sorry to hear you think my dislike is one-sided. On the contrary, I dislike all selfish vindictive self-aggrandising bullies consumed with bitterness, violent fantasies of control and humiliation, and obsession with denying the basic humanity of others. Please direct me to a feminist blog where feminist commentators openly gloat about destroying men’s self-esteem, share the joys of deliberately using and abusing them wherever possible, laughingly objectify them as good for only one thing, and delight in the prospect of their desperate washed-up old age once they have served their dumpster-like purpose. If you could provide me with the address of such a site, I solemnly swear I will say exactly the same things to them, and with exactly as much heartfelt contempt as I have shown towards your MRA ilk. That is a promise.
>I'm a fat and ugly woman. I've been told that I need to lower my standards. I've had guys tell me that I'm a bitch because I won't date them. That because I'm fat and ugly I should be thankful for anything that comes along.Here's the thing- even though I'm unattractive I also have a full life. I volunteer at a historical movie house giving tours. I go to museums. I am going to school and working. If I'm going to give up some of my time to start a relationship I expect the other person to be more fun and interesting than whatever I could be doing by myself.Most men (especially the ones who would lower themselves to be interested in someone who looks like me) aren't. They are entitled. They complain all the time. They have no passions or interests. Many of them are unemployed or have never worked more than a part time job. That isn't important because I'm a gold digger. It's important because people need to contribute something to the world. When one of these guys ask me out and I decline they get upset. I'm sure they probably tell their friends that I'm a princess or a brat. They might think that I'm holding out for an alpha male. I'm not. I'm holding out for myself. I'd rather take the energy that I'd spend in a relationship and dedicate it to things I care about. There is nothing enjoyable about spending time with someone who is dull and uninteresting just so that you aren't alone.
>@DarkSideCat If you don't mind me asking, are you Haudenosaunee (Iroquois)?
>missy, exactly. What I see with women is that they don't want the alcoholic, or the dumb male. Or you're just on such a different intellectual plane that you would be unhappy. The "standards" conversation is again an apples and oranges conversation between the genders in my experience and lemonade dude posted an onion article that does not at all represent what really happens. They left out the part where the guy is a raging alcoholic that doesn't even really like women, doesn't understand them and expects them to be a certain way, very limited. When men won't "lower" their standards, they most of the time are openly admitting it's as deep as "no fat chicks"Then they get the bright idea, that HEY wow, I've been a fool, I'll go for one of these and they will be desperate. Ok that might work, but not if you're really dumb and they are different. I haven't had men mad at me for turning them down, most guys just shuffle on. There's plenty out there. I am getting married after a loooooong time being single, and it boils down to "no jerks around the kids" and now I'm almost forty and know a good man when I meet one, so this is awesome. And this guy is actually one of those "nice guys" that these guys claim to be, too. But that's all I ought to say on the internet.
>citizenlemonade said… If a woman chooses a bad man, it’s because she’s a hypergamous bitch. If a man chooses a bad woman, it’s because he’s been duped by a hypergamous bitch. …..I simply cannot engage with people who have such ridiculous double standards …..The situation is not so balanced as you try to present it.How can a simple man 'choose' a Western woman? Look around and you will see, that young men outnumber young women in the dating scene 6:1 or so. Women have the choice to select among many men, and frequently are giving their preference to men who are either rich playboys promising love-for-always-BS and have plenty of women running after them all the time or they are choosing thug-boys, as ordinary men are just too boring for them.There are plenty of 'just ordinary' men, who despite long working hours and without a criminal record are neither thugs nor rich playboys – but they are never considered even for a friendly talk or for sharing a few nice hours.To blame these men with feminist shaming language is exactly what we MRAs strongly reject. The choice is with the woman and I can only advice her to choose more carefully among all these men around her using other criterias for her decision. Many people out there are extremely unpleasant and cannot be trusted. Men and woman alike. Attempt to avoid them. The end.Unfortunately it's not 'the end' – at least not for these many men who were badly cheated by malicious women.Not only were these men cheated, but because of single-sided law execution, they have to pay the bill. Often over decades. – Women do not have this risk. No obligations whatever. If women do not want to continue a relationship, they move on – easy – to the next man… as you said, the end or better, next please…About websites considering truly everything to be bad regarding men's rights, what about reading through all these threads of this David's blog?David's menboobz-blog is an entire scornful spoof about all and everything which you might consider as MRA-related issues.
>missyb9479 said… I'm a fat and ugly woman. (WHY?)I've been told that I need to lower my standards. (WHY?) I've had guys tell me that I'm a bitch because I won't date them. That because I'm fat and ugly I should be thankful for anything that comes along. Why to lower your standards? Why do you not try to improve yourself? You are not far away from that, let me say as you are openly admitting, that you are 'fat and ugly'.Do you enjoy your present appearance? Not really it seems to me when reading your comment.So, why are you not doing anything to improve your own looks? It is not difficult for a woman to improve her figure and her looks, if she really wants to do that.There is plenty of beauty/health care + advice for women available if you really want to do something about yourself. – Unfortunately for men who want to improve their health and looks, that's a different story.
>Men can't improve their health and looks? Are feminists stopping them for doing that too? Go to the gym, stop smoking and drinking, eat better.Done. Read Men's Health if you need motivation.
>@yohan,"There is plenty of beauty/health care + advice for women available if you really want to do something about yourself. – Unfortunately for men who want to improve their health and looks, that's a different story."That is just ridiculous nonsense. I can't even believe someone would try to use this to try to gain sympathy for men as the poor victims of EVERYTHING. LMAO!Yohan…if someone doesn't allow you to access the many available resources for men's health and looks, that would be a problem in your personal life and not a problem that ALL women have caused you.
>Yohan, missyb9479 has found someone who likes her even without changing the way she looks or how much she weighs. She can be relatively sure that this guy won't decide in two years that she's gotten fat and ugly and that was all he cared about and he's leaving now.Why should she change to attract more men if she's found one? Fat is just fat. Maybe she's okay with it.
>Yep. When I was single, super models wouldn't date me either. It was totally unfair. I blame feminism.Seriously, though, being single and feeling undesirable totally sucks, whether you're male or female. I get that. I spent a lot of time in that space myself–years, in fact. And, yes, I descended briefly into bitterness at womankind for not appreciating the awesomeness that was me. The fact is, a lot of women are shallow, stupid, and neurotic–as are a lot of men. Finding someone to share your life with is hard, frustrating, lonely work. Maintaining a relationship can be just as hard. There really aren't any shortcuts here. But I'll tell you one thing that absolutely will not work: blaming someone else for your troubles. Seriously, get over that shit right now, or you will be alone, and miserable, forever. Yeah, I know, feminists do it all the time, western women, blah, blah, blah… Even if that's true, who the fuck cares? You are ultimately responsible for your own life. If you don't like it, do something about it. Look inside yourself, take inventory, ruthlessly evaluate your strengths and weaknesses, go the therapy, try to improve yourself–whatever it takes, as long as you're not hurting anyone else. But whining on the internet about how unfair it all is will get you exactly nowhere.
>hahaha did anyone else notice this…?"an apples and oranges conversation between the genders in my experience and lemonade dude posted an onion article"haha, I did that and didn't notice. I'm not fat by the way.
>I am still single. But I've had relationships with various degrees of success. Like most people. But I am happy with myself and have no real need to change.The fat and ugly terms are things I've been told by men. Usually right before they tell me how I could be pretty if I only lose weight, wear heels, dye my hair, wear more makeup (or less makeup). In other words, I'd be acceptable if I could just be someone else. I spent many years of my life trying to attain this. Now I've accepted the fat and ugly labels because it makes my life easier. If I posted a picture I suspect half the people would agree with those labels and half wouldn't. Because they really are meaningless terms. Ones that get thrown around to degrade women by making it seem as their bodies are the only important thing about them.My reason for posting this wasn't to get into a debate over my own looks. It was to point out what was on the other side of these MRA rantings. I've been the girl that these guys talk about when they talk about fat princesses who reject them. I wanted to point out that women like me aren't rejecting them because we are heartless evil creatures. We just have better things to do with our time.The fact that Yohan thinks that women have a chance for growth while men don't is one of the most telling things I've ever seen. Insight into the mind of an MRA. Women have all the power and men are helpless. At least in their own minds.
>Captain Bathrobe said… "nicko81m:Heavy women with average looks need love, too. Why do you put yourself above them?"Why don't you date them? You have no room to talk if you shun or ignore them.
>@wytch"Captain Bathrobe said… "nicko81m:Heavy women with average looks need love, too. Why do you put yourself above them?"Why don't you date them? You have no room to talk if you shun or ignore them."That gives me room to talk (given my dating history), and I agree with @cb.
>Wytch:Because my wife might object. She's funny like that.
>Seriously, though, the point was that both men and women have standards about whom they wish to date. Nothing wrong with that. We may not like their standards, may not agree with them, may think they are silly and superficial, but everyone has the right to have them. Nick was complaining how "unfair" it is that women only want to date men who are "above" them (a group that presumably doesn't include him). My point is that "fair" doesn't enter into it. Nick (apparently) wants a certain type of woman. These women (apparently) do not want him. Sucks to be him, but no reasonable person would call this "unfair." It would only be unfair if men were the only one's allowed to have standards about whom they are attracted to–and that would be grossly unfair in and of itself.Nick is perfectly free to lower or change his standards; he's also free to try what he can to make himself a more attractive choice for a mate. What he cannot do is force women to accept him as a sex partner against their will. And what he and the rest of you appear to be doing is simply whining about this on the internet. I mean, whatever floats your boat; at least it keeps you off the streets. But I doubt it will accomplish much more than that.
>Well as feminists/women constantly tell men to improve themselves if they want better women, I don't see the problem with men telling fat women to improve their weight if they want better men. It's a two way street.Captain Bathrobe"What he cannot do is force women to accept him as a sex partner against their will. And what he and the rest of you appear to be doing is simply whining about this on the internet."It always cracks me up how feminists in here try to twist our meanings into stuff balloon animals.Can you please point out where I exactly express that I want women to accept me as a sex partner against her will?Seriously, this accusation is hilariously ridiculous. It's just another poor straw man attempt to claim that women are being victimized ROFLThis is no surprise from feminists
>Also Captain Bathrobe; the whole point that you are simply missing here is that there are women who I see everywhere in the real world and dating sites who remain single for a terribly long time.These same women have 100000000s of men interested in them. Yet not one of these men are good enough for these self proclaimed superior princesses.These same women don't seem to be offering any more than most average women AND MEN. These same women don't seem to have any thing unique about them compared to most average women AND MEN.Yet, these same women claim that most of the male population are not decent enough for them.It's as clear as day of who has the problem here. It's definitely not most of these men. It's these women who ridiculously over price themselves. Just because they do get plenty of offers, it gives these women a big head and they get delusional grandeur over it. The reason why these women get plenty of offers is because many to most of the other women are practically doing the same, it’s a vicious cycle that keeps repeating it’s self. These women are waiting to find Mr Unique who is extra intelligent and interesting than most . But these women refuse to acknowledge what imagine/characteristics appears in the mirror. In many cases, Mr Unique does lower his standards for these plain average women as women in Mr Unique’s league have even more extreme standards than the average woman.I see so many women who express that in social gatherings a guy doesn't seem interesting and intelligent enough in conversations but these same women usually put in the same effort themselves or even a lot less.I also see many women on dating sites who claim that they are not interested in many men because their profiles and emails are not sparking and dynamic. Yet these same women have small profiles that are no where near original or show any form of above average intelligence. That said, nearly every woman who has sent the first email to me or have replied my emails have not made much effort in their emails. These same women will reject men for all the same things they are simply doing.The point is that these women expect men to do most or all the ground work while they sit on their farting pedestals showered with attention and believe they shouldn't put in as much hard yards as the man because they have a pussy.That’s pretty much the story of a large percentage of western women these days. They live off this huge senses of entitlement and many to most times they finally get these entitlements that they really don’t deserve.
>Hahaha Nick,Bathrobe: "What he cannot do is force women to accept him as a sex partner against their will. And what he and the rest of you appear to be doing is simply whining about this on the internet."Nick: I don't do this!Nick five minutes later: Women over price themselves! I hate it! Whine!
>"Nick five minutes later: Women over price themselves! I hate it! Whine!"Yes, Sandy. Just because a woman has a pussy and a nice looking face, it doesn't make her a jackpot :PWhen it comes to gender issues, as political correctness always swings in favour of the fanny, this side of the story is taboo to mention. The PC people in this department will simply scoff at these truths that are obvious and right in your face
>"That’s pretty much the story of a large percentage of western women these days. They live off this huge senses of entitlement and many to most times they finally get these entitlements that they really don’t deserve."If they don't deserve it then how did they get it? In a free market of relationships, the price they get *is* their worth, by definition.