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comments policy violence against men/women

>Comments policy: Cool it

>Folks, some of you need to cool it with the gratuitously nasty personal attacks in your comments. I’ve been cutting some people slack because they are new to the comments here, and because I like to practice relatively hands-off moderation, but I will start deleting comments if this continues, and repeated violators will be banned entirely. Regardless of which side of the debate you’re on. If you haven’t already, read the comments policy.

Also not ok: Justifying violence against men or women. For example, this recent comment from witman suggesting it might be “patriotic” to shoot feminist elected officials. (I’ve screencapped it because I will be deleting it, but for now you can go see it for yourself to confirm I’m not making it up.)

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booboonation
10 years ago

>whitman is a dope rapper. But… the flow he lays down be falling outside the guidelines here I guess. Word to your mother, whitman, and I mean that- seriously who is your mother? Ha ha just kidding, kind of. I do wonder about MRAs moms though, all the time.

avpd0nmmng
10 years ago

>Most MRAs have mommy issues. It's one of the reason they are MRAs.

Dr. Deezee
10 years ago

>Mommy issues, like when your mother is an overemotional abusive hag?

The Biscuit Queen
10 years ago

>Does it then stand to reason feminist have daddy issues? No? Then that was a childish cheap shot. If this post is for real, which I doubt, this is one of those fringe that no one I know would condone in the MRM. While I agree the second amendment is indeed there to allow us protection against tyranny, I do not agree this is what the forefathers had in mind.

The Biscuit Queen
10 years ago

>BTW, until this post I have not seen anyone advocating violence. Hmmm.

David Futrelle
10 years ago

>BQ: witman has made dozens of comments here, many of them obnoxious but none as bad as this one. If he's a troll, which I seriously doubt, he's an *extremely* patient and dedicated one.

booboonation
10 years ago

>I really don't think we should get into the mommy issues or daddy issues thing,it's all lame. However, I do always wonder about what kinds of women the mothers are. My dad raised me to be feminist. NOT my mom, she's scared to death of independence. And rightfully so, I was raised in a single parent home, and things were pretty tough on all of us. She had married and moved away from my dad, so he was not around to help out. Previously he had been a very very very very very active father. I was his life.

rebekah
10 years ago

>biscuit queen, here is the link:http://www.manboobz.com/2011/01/congresswoman-shot-six-others-killed.htmlhis comment is four up from the bottom. If you use control f and then type in his username you will be able to find it quite easily

Yohan
10 years ago

>avpd0nmmng said… Most MRAs have mommy issues. It's one of the reason they are MRAs There are many reasons why men and some women too decide to become MRAs.Unfortunately children cannot choose their parents. They cannot choose the circumstances of their birth. To make male children responsible for the psycho behavior of their mother as you do is truly feminist BS-drivel.

Yohan
10 years ago

>The problem of this blog is about its biased moderation.1. Moderate comments by MRAs with links and personal explication why we think in this way =either ignored, or belittled, hardly any reasonable reply.2.Comments along the borderline from MRAs =See how bad all these MRAs really are, we must delete those comments. We feel soooo insulted.3.For feminists any personal insult towards MRAs is OK.booboonation said… whitman is a dope rapper. …..Word to your mother, whitman, and I mean that- seriously who is your mother? … I do wonder about MRAs moms though, all the time. This above is a typical feminist comment towards a father (witman) who was cheated by his ex-wife and who had to fight successfully in court for custody, because his ex-wife abandoned not only him, but also HER (their) children…

avpd0nmmng
10 years ago

>Yohan, what I say is that if a guy had a bad mother, instead of starting a crusade against women and feminists, he should blame his mother and keep his distance from her. I've known a guy that was posting in MRAs forums that was 40 years old and never had girlfriend and was still living with his mother. And he was constantly blaming feminists for all his problems. I'm sure there are many MRAs like him.

Magnolia
10 years ago

>I said it before…this group would be sad to me if they were not so dangerous.I don't know why but I am still shocked that there are people -defending- this shit. Like 'oh my god really?Come on guys. Seriously. I don't want your cock, I don't want your sperm I am not out to subjugate you and you are not an oppressed minority. Fucking stop.

Yohan
10 years ago

>avpd0nmmng said… Yohan, what I say is that if a guy had a bad mother, instead of starting a crusade against women and feminists, he should blame his mother and keep his distance from her The same could be said exactly in the opposite way, if you had a violent father, then keep a distance from him and don't call all MRAs and other men to be wife-beaters and rapists…What do you think?

richard
10 years ago

>I love how in a thread where David tells people to cool it with personal insults, the first posts are insults by booboonation and avpd(whatever) to MRA's mothers and David says nothing. More of that famed feminist fairness, I see. Just to clarify David, this means that I can insult feminst's mothers, correct? Random Brother

richard
10 years ago

>Thomas Jefferson said "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."There's nothing different between that and what witman is saying. IMHO, it is in keeping with a healthy desire to maintain ones freedoms (which feminist redefine as privilige) from government overreach. So I guess you'll have to delete this Thomas Jefferson quote from your blog also David.Random Brother

Elkins
10 years ago

>Although I appreciate the comments policy, I'm also kind of glad that you posted the comment in question, if only because it serves as evidence for those who believe that the people who take this kind of rhetoric seriously are just imaginary bogey-men invented as part of some sort of stupid political game.It's not a game, and they're not imaginary. They're real. And they're not bogey-men, either. They're real people, human beings just like you and me, who have somehow come to believe that there's really some kind of feminist conspiracy out there, and that the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the "conspirators'" blood. It's frightening, but even more than that, it's sad. I don't know what to do about it. At this point, the gulfs in perception just seem far too wide to bridge.

booboonation
10 years ago

>Why are you people lying about my mother comment? I even clarified it. Mommy/Daddy issues is a dumb topic to me, I find it childish. So Richard, stop lying about other people's posts because you can get banned doing that from what I hear. I will be waiting for your apology and yes, you should give one and stop reaching and trying to villianize the feminists here. On to your quote. That has nothing to do with whitman saying "this woman", and talking specifically about a current event. If Thomas Jefferson said, "Yeah, that dude was a tyrant." It would not apply to us, here. It's a matter of history. Richard you really should try to stop the personal attacks while playing victim that others are attacking you. Anyone that keeps this up with me, fine, what I will do to keep peace, clarity for others, and the permission to keep posting is I will ignore the attacks. Letting you know now, if I feel baited, I might not respond.

David Futrelle
10 years ago

>richard: I really only ever delete comments that are pointed personal attacks, not jokey comments or sweeping generalizations or cheap shots not directed at anyone in particular. If I deleted every comment featuring dumb generalizations or cheap shots about feminism, for example, I'd probably have to delete half the MRA comments on the blog.

Yohan
10 years ago

>David Futrelle said… ….. If I deleted every comment featuring dumb generalizations or cheap shots about feminism, for example, I'd probably have to delete half the MRA comments on the blog. You forgot to mention that in this case you also have to delete at least 80 percent of all feminist comments on this blog.

haloinshreds
10 years ago

>Well Yohan (and Witman) What is the situation here? By definition, a woman who has abandoned her children would not bother to fight about custody of them. I don't know witman and don't know his circumstances and can only judge him on his comments on this forum. Which have mostly been pretty rotten towards women as a gender and then escalated to violence at women. Not a huge suprise that his wife did the bolt then (again I don't know your circs but you are not doing yourself any favours with your posts) And in fact you are doing your ex a favour by being so extreme in your comments. She can now go back to court and say Witman advocates violence against women as a patriotic duty if they might be feminists. And even the coppers will back her. Pull your head out witman – if you do actually care for your kids then temper your anger as you are spilling out good reasons to have your kids taken from your care as you have chosen to manifest your anger in a public forum with violence as your ultimate solution. No court will back you on that as they are supposed to be putting the kids well being first and no court will back death threats against women as a sharing caring parent.Look Witman you are not blameless here. You chose to marry the woman you are now cranky with. Did someone put a gun to your head? It didn't work out but given you posts on this forum any police officer etc would tell your ex to get the f*ck out of your home cos you seem to be a ticking time bomb. As I said I don;t know you at all and can only judge you on your posts on this forum. Shit I would advise your ex to run for the hills based on your posts only I would have advised her how to take the kids as well.You are not demonstrating any sort of higher ground here mate – you are simply demonstrating why she left you. This might not be the reason but as long as you keep posting the crap you are posting in the last few days then you are unlikely to find much sympathy from even non feminists.

evilwhitemalempire
10 years ago

>"They're real people, human beings just like you and me, who have somehow come to believe that there's really some kind of feminist conspiracy out there"Can't imagine why.

Yohan
10 years ago

>haloinshreds said… I don't know witman and don't know his circumstances and can only judge him on his comments on this forum. I do not know witman either, and I can only judge him on the scornful and provocative comments he received on this blog for posting about his problems with his ex-wife. It is interesting to see that out of more than 5000 comments only those of MRAs but never those of feminists are ubject to moderation. Also Eoghan was a rather moderate poster at the beginning, but he was strongly belittled and as he was responsive to scornful personal provocation he was finally 'banned'. We will see who is the next target of us MRAs on this unique and strange all-out MRA-hating blog.

Elkins
10 years ago

>evilwhitemaleempire:No. I can't, really. And that's what I meant about the gulf in perception. You look at the world, and you see a feminist conspiracy. I look at the world, and I see no such thing. And, like I said, I don't know how that gulf can be bridged. Perhaps it can't be. I don't know.

Jut Gory
10 years ago

>booboonation: "I do always wonder about what kinds of women the mothers are. My dad raised me to be feminist. NOT my mom, she's scared to death of independence. And rightfully so, I was raised in a single parent home, and things were pretty tough on all of us. She had married and moved away from my dad, so he was not around to help out. Previously he had been a very very very very very active father. I was his life."Okay, it could be very simple. MRAs might have had mothers like your mother (who cut off her kids from their father). Or they might be people like your dad (who lost his children because of their mother).-Jut

D
D
10 years ago

>I believe that there are people both men and women in the MRA that simply have their heads in the stand regarding how disturbed some of their members really are:http://www.the-spearhead.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2445I don't know who this mkre fellow is, but Alpha has been around for years. Someone from SYG said they don't know of any violent MRA's, well this is one of their own board members.Not only are their comments disturbing to say the least, but the lack of anyone saying anything about it is even more disturbing (Kave is considered to be a troll there).I am really happy this board was put into place.

Yohan
10 years ago

>haloinshreds said… Well Yohan (and Witman) I don't know witman and don't know his circumstances and can only judge him on his comments on this forum. Maybe 1 comment in spam filter or not sent…???—–I myself do not know witman either, but I can only judge him on the scornful comments he received on this blog from feminists when he was telling his side of the story regarding ex-wife and children.The problem with this blog, if MRAs make reasonable postings they are either ignored or belittled, if they respond in the same way they are provocated by feminists, they are the bad violent guys.Eoghan was not that unreasonable at the beginning, but lost his patience, and same with witman now. Your posting is also in this direction, you say you judge him only from his postings… but surely not from all postings, you pick out some few which fits you. – I think you learnt this from David.Same happen to me just a few threads ago, I said, politicians, celebrities and rich businessmen should be aware that threats against their person and vandalism against their offices might be serious and they should do something about crime prevention. What's wrong with saying this?What's wrong about a discussion how to PREVENT crimes? What has crime prevention to do with the female or male gender?Now brainwashed feminists on this blog are telling me something about a poor female victim, and compare the attack against her with being defendless and pregnant or being raped. – And of course these stupid women are telling me what a big misogynist I am… This is really a strange blog, I cannot remember I have ever seen something like that.Whatever I say, the US-feminist is putting words in my mouth and claims something which is not true and what I never said.I escaped feminism after suffering from it for more than 2 decades. No problems now for me personally. Unfortunately other men are not as lucky as I am.

wytchfinde555
10 years ago

>avpd0nmmng said… "Yohan, what I say is that if a guy had a bad mother, instead of starting a crusade against women and feminists, he should blame his mother and keep his distance from her. I've known a guy that was posting in MRAs forums that was 40 years old and never had girlfriend and was still living with his mother. And he was constantly blaming feminists for all his problems. I'm sure there are many MRAs like him."You really are a hoot. Many MRAs are like him? Do you realize the cross-section of men that are on MRA, MGTOW, or even PUA forums? You are being naive, foolish, in denial, or just plain trying to paint them as losers (because I'm sure you think the above man is one, apparently). What if I had said the same thing about feminists having father issues and hating men because of their upbringing? So it's not okay for some man to believe he was oppressed and held back because his fundamental development pretty much sucked but when feminists find oppression and claim they are held down there's a legit reason?Okay . ..

D
D
10 years ago

>I believe that radical feminists and MRA (there are few moderate mra's) do have more in common then they would like to believe. Both groups have the landmarks of broken individals, from being hurt by the opposite sex. Whether it be parents, spouses, S.O's, teasing in school, or random acts of violence. However you would be hard pressed to find many individals who have not been hurt by someone at sometime. The difference is emotionally mature people do not label all members of the person who hurt them sub group as BAD.The majority of feminists I see posting do not label all men as bad except for perhaps a very few. This however seems to be the norm for MRA's."Feminists" in a MRA context seems to include everyone who does not hate their mothers, have their wives, hate western women, etc.Mangina, white knight, the list goes on. They hate conservative women because conservative women want men to take care of them, they hate working women because women shouldn't be in the work force. They hate that women are not eligible for the draft but do not want women fighting with them in wars.No one but those that mirror their own hatred can stand up to this litmus test.

D
D
10 years ago

>"What if I had said the same thing about feminists having father issues and hating men because of their upbringing?"I would say that for those feminists that hate men this is more often then not the truth.

wytchfinde555
10 years ago

>"I would say that for those feminists that hate men this is more often then not the truth."—DAnd it's often a projection upon men and the world as well from that background and history.

D
D
10 years ago

>As it is for MRA's wytch

richard
10 years ago

>@ booboonationIf you didn't want to talk about mothers why'd you bring it up in the first place? Secondly, I didn't lie about anyone's post. As for waiting for me to apologize, how often does anyone apologize on the interent? (Not that you deserve an apology). Lastly you say: ". . .If Thomas Jefferson said, "Yeah, that dude was a tyrant." It would not apply to us, here. It's a matter of history."The key phrase young lady is from time to time, ask someone to explain it to you. Random Brother

richard
10 years ago

>@ ElkinsDon't you find it rather odd that the evil partriarchy conspiracy is accepted but anything else is somehow considered ridiculous? Random Brother

avpd0nmmng
10 years ago

>To wytchfinde555:Rooshv, an acolyte of Roissy, said it himself "“Men’s Rights” Has Become A Euphemism For “Sexual Loser”" (http://www.rooshv.com/mens-rights-has-become-a-euphemism-for-sexual-loser). And given the fascination of MRAs blog for "game" or foreign brides or going to some third world country to find a wife, it's obvious these guys have no success with women.

Dr. Deezee
10 years ago

>So D,How do you explain all the female MRAs?

Joe
Joe
10 years ago

>> how often does anyone apologize on the interent?The "interent": a lowest common denominator we can all aspire to.

booboonation
10 years ago

>That seems like an odd question, Deeze. I have a long answer for this, but let me start just by pointing something out. Women have NEVER historically been for women's rights because it has always been an idea that threatened status quo and their stability just as much as men's stability. There are tons of people exploited, just outright exploited in labor that believe they can't do anything about it, and any talk of change threatens their job and livelihood. Women are …ok…here comes a generalization, and guess what? This one I am completely comfortable making. Women are scared of not being liked or accepted or viewed as attractive and that effects almost every woman. Women are notorious for posturing themselves AGAINST feminism with loud and bold declarations. There was a video on you tube for awhile of this guy reading singles ads in the UK and it was a comedy video, but so funny how all the ads mentioned, "not a feminist", "I'm no feminist.", etc. Women have never ever, on the whole fought for changes for women. They argued with Steinem as much as anyone did. I remember one Phil Donahue episode in the 80s about feminism, there was a woman caller with grown children, and she called and said, "I don't WANT to have to work outside the home. I disagree!" The caller feeling pressure that feminism meant no women should ever stay home. Phil just asked her, "DO you want the world you were faced with for your daughter?" Pause. "NO"… and that scene played out over and over the last thirty or more years when it comes to this topic. Also, politically, if a woman is right wing, fuggeddaboudit. Of course, not always is this the case, but introduce me to the feminist tea bagger, that's a conversation I want to have. Since MRA is an ANTI FEMINIST MOVEMENT and very little else, I would expect swarms of women in your ranks. The only question left is, why aren't there more women? Seriously? Where ARE THEY? I look around and I see women lining up to get into abusive dynamics that exploit them and prop up an oppressive system, so I personally was shocked at the lack of women MRAs. Also I would say that when the movement is not an anti feminist farce, and you do try to get some activism going that means basic progress for all (father's rights), of course any woman will back that (if it's for real). I end here only because my comment is long, not because there ain't more to say about wimminz that lurve them some patriarchy.

David Futrelle
10 years ago

>"All the female MRAs"I've seen only a handful. And they actually face a lot of hostility from many MRAs, who don't trust them as allies because they're, you know, women; see The Spearhead message boards for evidence of this.

booboonation
10 years ago

>richard, now you're saying to me "why did you bring it up?" about mothers, I explained why I brought it up. You are trying to pin your own failure on me. I think (again for the second or third time), that claiming someone has mommy or daddy issues is a lame ad hom. "Issues" is a separate subject from plain biography. I talked of my own as well. So the quote was meant to suggest that throughout history force would be needed. I understand that. If someone quotes him with the intent to incite people to violence, then the quote is wrong for the commenting guidelines here, it depends on context. So if you say, "well in regards to these female politicians backed by NOW, let's not forget what this old famous dead dude said about sometimes having to kill people."Of if you say, "Hey look what Thomas Jefferson said." Those are two completely different things. Sometimes it gets confusing explaining things to people that should never ever have to be explained. And I guess when one makes honest mistakes that no apology should be asked for. I usually don't do that. But I will ask that you please take responsibility when you read things IN THE CASE that you are attacking their comments, which is what you did with me. You held up my comment as a no no and you were wrong. You attacked me and were factually wrong due to your own comprehension failure. So IF you are going to point fingers, just make sure you have it right. An apology would be appropriate when you fail in that regard since it was an attack.

avpd0nmmng
10 years ago

>To Dr. Deezee :Very few women post on MRAs blogs/forums and they don't stay long and many are harassed on their own blog. One of them last year had to put her blog private because a guy was sending her emails saying he wanted to rape her. And I think that some women that post there are guys.

Dr. Deezee
10 years ago
Amused
10 years ago

>Dr.Deezee: "I know some women who love patriarchy."I know some people who are morons. And some who are hypocrites. And some who think the Earth is flat, and some who think the Moon is made of green cheese. Okay, okay, I don't actually know people who think the Moon is made of green cheese.

Dr. Deezee
10 years ago

>Taking a page right out of my primer on public discourse I see. Why refute an argument when you can just dismiss it with ad hominems and stupid analogies?

Elkins
10 years ago

>@richard:The only people I've ever met who believe in anything that could accurately be described as "the evil patriarchy conspiracy" have been teenagers with just enough experience of the world to become radicalized and angry, but not yet enough experience of the world to have any sense of nuance. Or much in the way of sense at all, for that matter. They're the same teenagers you'll hear saying idiotic things like "I'm not wearing a seat belt! That's SO bourgeois!" They grow out of it.

booboonation
10 years ago

>Dr. Dreeze, I just wrote a pretty long post on that. Look at the last line of the post. And David, sometimes the distrust thing goes on with the feminists, too. I know some feminists that really really don't appreciate a man around because of women's nature (not referring to a nature versus nurture debate here, just saying for whatever reason), or habit to defer to men and look to men, or not want to offend men. I've seen it myself, people really do act differently when a male is around and attribute leadership skills to them automatically based on no evidence. If I was in a movement like MRA, I might be suspicious of women members, too. Especially since MRA is largely a woman hating group. And like I said, if you only like your dog for its tail, you could be described as hating your dog, depending on what manifests from that love of tail. What I mean is, these men are really really conditional with their love and toleration of women, that's why we call it hate. Now of course the words "conditional" don't tell the story, we are all that way. The important things is to compare the conditionals and realize that the conditions this group wants to place on women are dehumanizing which is why more violence is bourne of this group than a radical feminist group. I'm sick of being coerced with this "man hating" garbage, and when we argue about that we never get to stage two, we always get stuck in stage one. Stage one is, "well first of all, that's not even true", because most of the time- it's not. I'm interested in stage two now, getting people to realize that it does not matter if some women hate men. It does not sum up or amount to anything. If you make the claim that it does, show me the money. I want to see evidence. Because the truth is, it's just another boundary invasion of women by people that think women are owned and have no personal agency. Men that attack the feminist movement just don't want women to have a group identity that they define themselves, or clear boundaries. It's fine that men have otherized us since Eden and look at women as such a separate species they cannot even maintain a friendship with a woman. So it's fine for them to define the species that we are, and include no boundaries in that definition. But we are not permitted to recognize our own identity and issues as otherized persons and form a group that will help us make sense and improve our conditions, especially when we declare we are people in our own right with a wide range of abilities, our own agency and choices, and have strong boundaries. Who in the HELL shows up to MRA sites screaching, "How come you don't talk about women's issues?" That would be insanity there, just like it is here.

Yohan
10 years ago

>avpd0nmmng said… …..MRAs blog for "game" or foreign brides or going to some third world country to find a wife, it's obvious these guys have no success with women. Such drivel can only be written by an US-citizen, who was never beyond the borders of his/her own state.MRAs do not have success with women? MRAs are not interested into games like US-hook-up-culture and one-night stands with certain women in certain countries.But we find success – a long-term relationship – just somewhere else, with other people in other countries.We do not listen to hateful feminists, we go our own way. It's not your business to tell us how we should arrange our life.About myself, I am living since over 3 decades in Asia, with foreign wife.You are grossly misinformed about this world, if you really think all foreign countries are 3rd world countries, all foreign women are poor and doormats and only American women are 'rich and independent'.

Pam
Pam
10 years ago

>I know some women who love patriarchy.Just clicked on that link and had a quick read of the "Patriarchy: Its Benefits For Women" article. Here the Female Misogynist (the blog owner), in defending patriarchy, is unwittingly also lending support for things like VAWA:"This ownership [of women and children by the patriarch] gives the man a motivation to protect his wife and daughters (and sons) from threats, chiefly other men. THERE IS NO OTHER HOPE OF SAFETY FOR WOMEN. WOMEN CAN ONLY BE SAFE FROM MEN IF OTHER MEN DEFEND THEM. Men are larger, stronger and more aggressive, and if the social system gives them no motivation to defend women, as matriarchy does not, they will leave women at their fellows' mercy."So, the chief threat to women (and children) is … wait for it … MEN!!Ah, but she hooked you on that "ownership of women and children", didn't she. I don't see any commenters there taking issue with the statement that it's MEN who are the chief threat, and then subsequently pointing out that it's actually WOMEN who are more dangerous to men, other women and to children.

Yohan
10 years ago

>David Futrelle said… "All the female MRAs"I've seen only a handful… I have seen only a few male feminists.And most of them suffer of very serious issues, confused, psycho …

Yohan
10 years ago

>booboonation said… ….If I was in a movement like MRA, I might be suspicious of women members, too. Especially since MRA is largely a woman hating group. …..And like I said, if you only like your dog for its tail, you could be described as hating your dog… …..I'm sick of being coerced with this "man hating" garbage… MRAs do not hate 'women' in general, but reject feminism. Truly 2 different things.There are MRAs, who are married and have children. Not so few of them.There are also women, who reject feminism. Why MUST every woman accept your life-style?Your statement is 'man-hating' and untrue. You want to FORCE other people to accept your feminist guidelines. Somehow feminism can be compared with a religious sect.

Pam
Pam
10 years ago

>There are also women, who reject feminismOf course there are, and I don't think anyone would deny that. However, it does tend to be women who reject feminism that expect it to be the man who pays for everything (i.e., view men as walking ATM machines), defend them even to the death, oppose having females serve in the military (voluntarily or not), etc. These seem to be huge bones of contention with MRAs, yet the disparaging comments are levelled against feminists, not those who reject feminism.

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