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| From the Gunwitch,com forums |
Some updates on the Gunwitch story. (Here’s my original post on the subject, “Gun-loving pick-up guru allegedly shoots a woman in the face.”)
The woman he (allegedly) shot is apparently doing surprisingly well. The most recent news story on the incident I’ve found — posted on the 6th — says she was about to be released from the hospital:
April Lagasse, the mother of 20-year-old Amber Tripp, who was shot in the face with a .357 caliber handgun on New Year’s Eve, says her daughter has “recovered miraculously.”
Tripp, who was initially treated at Sky Lakes Medical Center in Klamath Falls before being air lifted to Oregon Health Sciences University in Portland, underwent surgery Wednesday and is scheduled to be released and return to Klamath Falls Thursday.
On what is evidently her Myspace page, the status update now reads: “Hello wonderful world i got shot and im still sexy.”
Meanwhile, on Gunwitch’s message board, someone claiming to be Amber Tripp’s sister has posted her account of the incident:
Hello my name is Meagan Tripp. My sister is Amber Tripp , the young women that wS shoot in the face on News Years Eve. It is a pure mircale that she is alive. Allen Ryese shot my sister in the face after he had been grabbing and touching her inapporite and my sister pulled her knife out and told him to leave her alone. My sister then put her knife away and went into a bedroom for about fifteen minutes. When my sister came out of the room Allen walked up to her and shot her in the face with a 357 magnum . The bullet that came out of the chamber was the only 38 bullet in the gun. The other two bullets were 357 s. This man had plenty of time to decide to shot her or not. This awful evil man deserves to rot in prison
Later, in response to some of those who responded to her, she added:
My sister is alive. No I personally was not at his brothers house when it happened. I did not know Allen personally but yes I do recognize him and his name. No it was not drug related and yes he shot her in the face point blank .
One of the regulars on the board responded to her original comment with this “hilarious” remark:
Post pics of her face w/ timestamp
boobs optional
Another posted:
honestly, she was pulling a knife on him. It wasn’t going to change her oppinion to show her his gun after shit like that. Not even sexual state would have helped him there.
Still another:
Self defence against meth-addict crackwhore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And one more:
I like that it was in the face. Super disrespectful.
Some discussions of the case on other message boards:
Personal Development for Smart People Forums
Sample comment from the latter:
to be fair to him though, shooting a bitch in the face is a pretty solid neg
Some blogs that have posted about the shooting:
On Feminist Critics, Hugh Ristik discusses some of the reactions to the incident, and critiques feminists (including some commenters here) for generalizing about PUAs. He ends with this:
Gunwitch, if you really shot an unarmed woman, then fuck you. Fuck you for putting a bullet in a woman’s face. Fuck you for fueling many women’s fears about male sexuality. Fuck you for contributing to a stigma against harmless guys who are trying to study pickup to improve themselves.
As for the small subset of PUAs or MRAs who are making excuses for Gunwitch, and the feminists who are trying to paint Gunwitch and the people excusing him as representative of PUAs, or of men? Stop, just stop.
Max on FKIN, a PUA blog, offers a blunt assessment of Gunwitch:
He embodies all of the worst traits of the seduction community. I sincerely hope he rots in prison for the rest of his natural life.
On Love Letters in Hell, Amanda talks about the creepy, date-rapey aspects of his technique.
On Love Bites, Clarisse Thorn expresses her ambivalence towards the PUA subculture and her disgust with Gunwitch:
The diverse pickup subculture freaks me out a lot of the time, and frankly I’ve had hours of pickup artist research where I have read what these men have to say and felt like I wanted to take a vow of chastity rather than ever risk having sex with one of them, ever. … I think there’s good in the subculture. … But, damn. News like this is awfully hard to stomach.
You said it.
—
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>She had a weapon…he had a weapon…zero sum game. Another case of a frigid woman repudiating nice guy advances driving him to frustration beyond what should be tolerable for any male. She humiliated him and then brought out his aggressive instinct by brandshing a weapon right under his nose, and then like a modern female supremacist, expects him to repress thousands of years of evolution, and turn tail. For any real man, this is impossible. What she brought on to herself was inevitable. She knew him previously, so she was likely more aware than anyone how he reacts when he feels attacked, and surely she knew he was armed. This kind of reckless, humiliation inflicting conduct from women is becoming all too common in this feminist dominated matriarchy…blah blah blah. Sigh, I'm out of ways to try to paint him as not responsible for his own behavior, but her hyper-responsible. Speaking as a woman who is held responsible on a daily basis for how men react, I know the deal.
>Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.Gunwitch is a piece of shit.
>There is a seduction community?
>PUA guru TylerDurden of RSD adds some sanity: —-Reading this thread it’s weird to think that not everyone’s first thought was concern for the girl that got shot in the face (”rating” her seems especially bizarre). But hey I “get it” that it probably doesn’t feel real when you read it, almost like a joke because it’s surreal, so the inclination is to break the tension.—-
>What does this have to do with Men's Rights? Do you know of any even somewhat mainstream MRA groups which condone this? PUA is not about men's rights, just like dominatrix groups are not about feminism. A few nuts spouting off does not define a movement. I can find hundreds of quotes from feminists that are far worse than this; quotes from mainstream, role model feminists.
>Oh, and one other thing. Did everyone in America worry when Lorena Bobbett perminately disfigured her husband? Oh, yeah, the victim in that case is still the butt of jokes from mainstream society. It must have been different.
>Biscuit Queen: Where do I suggest that MRAs condone shooting a woman in the face? I made no reference to the MRM at all in this post, nor did any of the commenters. That said, there are a significant number of MRAs who see "Game" as an essential part of the MRM; see, for example, "The Misandry Bubble." http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html
>Biscuit queen, violence against men is seen as a joke a lot of the time. It's deemed as humorous on TV when a woman kicks a man in the nuts. If a man kicked a woman in the vulva on a comedy show, there would be a deafening silence from the audience.It's also socially acceptable for a woman to slap a man if the man says something offensive to a woman. Yet if the tables are turned, violence against women is always wrong no matter what.And just look at how seriously feminists take male DV victims. All their shelters/programs don't get a hoots about male victims.It's funny how David is whining about this particular situation but when this type of attitude is against men…well its pretty much the social normBut wait, women are oppresed and evil men are privileged. Sorry I forgot.
>Biscuit Lorena made national news and was villianized. She is not an example of any imbalance. Horrendous violence happens to women daily and that does not make national news, it's every day occurrence. Also, this blog explores misogyny. Unfortunately, many MRA's fall into that category as do PUA's. This guy was a big name in the PUA community. MRA and PUA over lap, I have seen this personally with MRAs that I have run into. Some of these groups definitely fall under fringe element label, and once in awhile we get a deadly story coming out of the mix. Please do not minimize misogyny or violence against women. If someone is concerned about violence against men (targeted because they are men and hated as men, the way misogyny works), they are free to blog about that, and probably do. And Nick, Men can form their DV shelters exactly the way women got theirs. The nature of domestic violence requires segregation the way that locker rooms do. Obviously I am misinformed about the prevalence and severity of DV against men, so please, form shelters by all means. You might soon come to realize that shelters had to be created to take care of a population that had nowhere to go, and that men would not utilize such a service even if they were beaten. The shelters were borne out of the dynamic that women had to run for their lives and could not run to family. One, many people do not live near their family but two, they did not want to put their family in danger. Women that work in shelters have been killed and the shelter in my hometown had to be a secret even from the police because they were abusers, as well. There is an alarming rate of DV abuse in the homes of law enforcement. It's possible that men, even if abused do not need shelters, or not enough do to keep them running.
>"And Nick, Men can form their DV shelters exactly the way women got theirs. The nature of domestic violence requires segregation the way that locker rooms do. Obviously I am misinformed about the prevalence and severity of DV against men, so please, form shelters by all means."You see there is a problem, the so called oppressive governments against women are not willing to give enough tax payers to make such a thing happen and yet VAWA gets billions. Female privilege and male oppression? Definitely. But feminists will deny any type of female privilege to the end because they are extreme sexist bigots who simply don't give a hoots about men.Secondly, feminists claim that they are about gender equality so much. Do you know what gender equality means? You have to be dumb if you think gender equality means to only help one gender and not the other. But what else can you expect from a typical bigot?If I as a man refused to help women in any way, I would be labelled as a misogynist creepFeminists would have to be the biggest shameless hypocrites on the face of this planet.
>nick, 2 things: 1) DV shelters get the overwhelming majority of their funding not from government but from private donations.2) You know how they started getting the govt. money they do get? Did the government just magically decide one day to start giving money to them? No. It took years of organizing and advocacy on the part of feminists and other activists who essentially created shelters from nothing. In the world of political activism, no one simply gets things handed to them. You have to actually work for it, instead of simply whining about the unfairness of it all online. Also a bad idea: spitting on potential allies in the struggle by actively trying to prevent people from donating money to women's DV shelters, as Glenn Sacks has done.
>Women's shelter funding is extremely difficult to get for women, in the state of California, Schwartznegger at one point yanked ALL the funding. "are not willing to give enough tax payers to make such a thing happen", the way this is written I'm not sure what you mean. I took it to be a mis speak and that you mean funding. Your arguments about not helping a gender are not true in any way, you are just hiding behind language saying "help" and things like that.I have made the argument that women need their own shelters, fought hard to get them, men can do the same, might not use them anyhow, explained my thoughts on that, but you don't address anything I said, and instead throw a word like "bigot" out. Why is it up to women to take care of you? If you had any proof that there was a need for shelters, you could get funding. There is no proof. It is not the fault of feminists that men are not getting murdered because of a particular dynamic where they have no place to go. If men feel they have no place to go and are dying because of that, you can fight for funding just like women had to. And furthermore, they were fought every step of the way by misogynist crackpots (men and women) that called them runaway houses for brides. I mean if a "bride" wants to run away to some stranger run shelter for temporary assistance (you don't get to stay very long)instead of living with their husbands, there is an issue there. Is is not the fault of WOMEN if you have a hard time getting funding together. Was it the fault of MEN that it's so hard, and remains difficult for women to retain that funding? Admit that you cannot handle this issue or the points I make directly and you will have to keep spouting your nebulous concepts to get by. Men CANNOT stay at women's shelters, even the battering law enforcement might admit that to you, it is a crack pot idea. The bottom line is, in my last two comments I have outlined why you cannot show need for these shelters, and you cannot answer my points. And it takes a real twisted jackass to look at a murder rate of women, see houses built to save these women's lives and call that female privilege. That is some serious crackpottery right there. WOW. We need a manboobz post on that logic. Again, where are your murder stats, and they must be coupled with a dynamic that men have nowhere to go AND they will use the shelter services. And throwing the word "equality" out is as meaningless in this context as it is to throw it out for separate locker rooms or washrooms. These facilities MUST be separate. If you want me to get into even more examples other than what we know about law enforcement batterers I will, but I shouldn't have to.
>"That said, there are a significant number of MRAs who see "Game" as an essential part of the MRM; see, for example, "The Misandry Bubble.""It's a pretty big leap to say this and then jump to the conclusion that MRAs must support Gunwitch or what have you. As far as I can tell, the only people defending Gunwitch are, well, Gunwitch fans (shocker). Almost every single other person in the "MRM" has said Gunwitch is a worthless douche. Yet folks like Booboonation still take this as an example that not only are MRAs deluded, violence crazed sociopaths, but goes as far as to assert that AVERAGE MEN must also feel this way.I'm all for hyperbole and exaggeration – do it all the time, as a joke – but I think booboonation might actually be that deluded. Which is endlessly entertaining but a little sad.
>Deezee: "It's a pretty big leap to say this and then jump to the conclusion that MRAs must support Gunwitch or what have you."Yeah, that's why I DID NOT MAKE THAT LEAP or suggest anything of the sort, a point I already made quite explicitly in an earlier post. Just so no one forgets: I DO NOT THINK MRAS SUPPORT SHOOTING WOMEN IN THE FACE. Please respond to things I actually say, not shit you make up and attribute to me. Most MRAs probably don't know even who he is. Almost no one but a few of his fans amongst PUAs are offering support for him. It's stunning to me that ANYONE supports him; that's why I posted comments from some who do. Most of my earlier blog post was on how vile his pickup techniques are, not the shooting itself, because virtually every civilized person in the world is opposed to shooting women in the face. Oh, and in case you've forgotten:I DO NOT THINK MRAS SUPPORT SHOOTING WOMEN IN THE FACE. (Though I should add that there are SOME MRAs who either support or don't give a fuck about other kinds of violence against women.) booboo can speak for herself, but she's already told you pretty directly that she DOES NOT think average men think this way:http://www.manboobz.com/2011/01/gun-loving-pick-up-guru-allegedly.html?showComment=1294447437844#c3544644803327796994
>Dave, I was using your comment to address several of your commenters who have been extrapolating this incident as applying to all MRAs.As for your comment that there are SOME MRAs who either support or don't give a a fuck about other kinds of violence against women, I'm sure there's (at the very least) an equal number of feminists who would like to see the entire male population eradicated. A lot of them seemed to attend my high school and, judging from their tones when I'd engage them in debates, it wasn't really a joke. 😉 (Holy shit, you mean, opposite sides of the same political continuum are equally batshit crazy? Go figure!)I fail to see how it's surprising that some people will support Gunwitch when you've still got people running around who idolize Hitler and shit. If humans can disappoint you, they will.As for booboo, I already responded to that comment and she dropped the conversation.
>You posted this on your website, which is formed to discredit the men's rights movement. Your every post is designed to paint all MRAs with the brush of fanatic, to generalize fringe behavior as normal. You did not have to say you think this is indicative of all MRA's, it is written all over your metaphorical face. If I cannot underestimate misogyny, then please do not underestimate misandry. I have spend just shy of 40 years being a woman in the US. I have faced a couple of situations where I dealt with men who had a chip on their shoulder, but by and far once I was able to prove I was equally as capable (such as loading my own 100 lb bags of pig feed into my truck) the men lost the chip. I entered college in a male dominated field and had no issues with misogyny. I can tell you as an average white woman in the US, misogyny is not nearly as present as misandry. Since I have taken up the mantle of men's issues I have been called names, been told I hated myself, been called a traitor. I have been stalked, laughed at, and threatened. And I am not even a man! Misandry is all the more insidious because it is adamently denied. Men are seen as weak and pathetic for having needs or being vulnerable, then seen as whiny for trying to get those needs met. They are told to suck it up and be a man when they are hurt or otherwise mistreated, and then told to put their own needs aside and show empathy towards people simply because they are women.
>Dr Deezee has a good point. Women have little empathy for violence against men. Society has little empathy for violence against men. Men make up the vast majority of victims of assault and murder, yet we only care about violence against women. It is feminists and society which have deemed women more important.If the reason is men commit more violence, then why do we not have a "Violence By Men ACT" as opposed to VAWA? Is it about the victims or the perps? It seems to be awfully convenient how the focus changes depending on what point feminists want to make. Did it occur to anyone that by addressing violence against men that less boys would be raised in violence and less men would be violent? That by perhaps incarcerating a large percentage of our men that we may be perpetuating the cycles of violence?
>Dr. Deezee,Booboonation is THAT deluded. Her hate and bigotry effectively drip from her typed posts. The venom and vitriol are almost laughable. I would laugh, but so many people feel this way and are shaping policy.Anyone who claims to be for equality yet supports VAWA are bigots and hypocrites!
>Why are you talking about me, here? If I thought men were as abusive and horrible as the MRAs that post here, listen up I WOULD KILL MYSELF, did you hear that loud and clear? And no I am not kidding. I'm getting married soon, there will be patriarchy in our home Side note: Steinem said it doesn't work in the home, and I LOLED when she said that but she's one of my heroes I love the woman. I also don't feel the need to dole out all the nuances of where I am on feminist theory compared to others to people who hate feminists for no reason and are abusive. Men tend to like me, and we all have our different dynamics. As I have gotten older I have learned to stay away from abusive men, I seem to be a magnet for them for numerous reasons but I'm totally out of that now, even though I still attract them, and actually they are worse with me now that I have stronger boundaries. What happens to me does not happen to all women. You have to learn yourself. So now I've figured out how to be around great people and I am. See I wonder sometimes if men around here just want to know about us ladies and try to trick us abusively into defending ourselves with a little autobiographical sketch. Maybe I'll do a blog on how I ran into feminism. It's kind of neat that our profiles are attached to our comments. Whitman you've done nothing but personally attack me on here. You're the one that says you hate me, I never said I hated anyone. If I "drip" anything from my posts then you definitely flood the board with your hate. I don't need to sit here and tell misogynists over and over that I love men and they love me. It does not matter. Women have every right to be angry and not to give into this push to pretend that everything flows equal and men need shelters and women keep them out and all this crap. I owe you nothing.
>Why are you talking about me, here? If I thought men were as abusive and horrible as the MRAs that post here, listen up I WOULD KILL MYSELF, did you hear that loud and clear? And no I am not kidding. I'm getting married soon, there will be patriarchy in our home Side note: Steinem said it doesn't work in the home, and I LOLED when she said that but she's one of my heroes I love the woman. I also don't feel the need to dole out all the nuances of where I am on feminist theory compared to others to people who hate feminists for no reason and are abusive. Men tend to like me, and we all have our different dynamics. As I have gotten older I have learned to stay away from abusive men, I seem to be a magnet for them for numerous reasons but I'm totally out of that now, even though I still attract them, and actually they are worse with me now that I have stronger boundaries. What happens to me does not happen to all women. You have to learn yourself. So now I've figured out how to be around great people and I am. See I wonder sometimes if men around here just want to know about us ladies and try to trick us abusively into defending ourselves with a little autobiographical sketch. Maybe I'll do a blog on how I ran into feminism. It's kind of neat that our profiles are attached to our comments. Whitman you've done nothing but personally attack me on here. You're the one that says you hate me, I never said I hated anyone. If I "drip" anything from my posts then you definitely flood the board with your hate. I don't need to sit here and tell misogynists over and over that I love men and they love me. It does not matter. Women have every right to be angry and not to give into this push to pretend that everything flows equal and men need shelters and women keep them out and all this crap. I owe you nothing.
>Why are you talking about me, here? If I thought men were as abusive and horrible as the MRAs that post here, listen up I WOULD KILL MYSELF, did you hear that loud and clear? And no I am not kidding. I'm getting married soon, there will be patriarchy in our home Side note: Steinem said it doesn't work in the home, and I LOLED when she said that but she's one of my heroes I love the woman. I also don't feel the need to dole out all the nuances of where I am on feminist theory compared to others to people who hate feminists for no reason and are abusive. Men tend to like me, and we all have our different dynamics. As I have gotten older I have learned to stay away from abusive men, I seem to be a magnet for them for numerous reasons but I'm totally out of that now, even though I still attract them, and actually they are worse with me now that I have stronger boundaries. What happens to me does not happen to all women. You have to learn yourself. So now I've figured out how to be around great people and I am.
>See I wonder sometimes if men around here just want to know about us ladies and try to trick us abusively into defending ourselves with a little autobiographical sketch. Maybe I'll do a blog on how I ran into feminism. It's kind of neat that our profiles are attached to our comments. Whitman you've done nothing but personally attack me on here. You're the one that says you hate me, I never said I hated anyone. If I "drip" anything from my posts then you definitely flood the board with your hate. I don't need to sit here and tell misogynists over and over that I love men and they love me. It does not matter. Women have every right to be angry and not to give into this push to pretend that everything flows equal and men need shelters and women keep them out and all this crap. I owe you nothing.
>@ Biscuit Queen/comment January 11, 2011 11:51 AM Thank you for your excellent posting Yohan
>Here are some more examples of PUAs having sensible responses:—-Wow this is horrible news.Lets all hope the girl recovers.—-and—-Dear Gunbitch – you are a fucktard. You look like a retard. There is no way you have gotten anything resembling pussy in a long long time. That is why women now pull knives on you, and you blast them in the face with your hammerless 357, which you can't even figure out how to properly load with a consistent caliber of ammunition.You have also threatened lots of people, on many forums, with veiled threats of violence. To read the story, and to see your fugly mugshot and video, takes you from PUA GURU to PUA ZERO.Sociopathic Assfucker.—-Note that many people in the community weren't cool with Gunwitch and considered him messed up before he pulled his stunt.Another excellent response:—-I can't help but add that the jeering and joking that is going on outside this forum is beyond childish.The flippancy in which some certain pu guru hero's have treated the subject of a girl getting shot in the face and the way they are joking about it quite frankly disgusts me.—-If anyone is still riding the "PUAs condone Gunwitch" hype train, I think it's time to get off.
>"That by perhaps incarcerating a large percentage of our men that we may be perpetuating the cycles of violence?"This is a really good point, but it has nothing to do with anything MRA's are ever on about. Violent men SHOULD be locked up because they are extremely dangerous. Nonviolent men shouldn't be locked up. Unless they use drugs because drugs are bad. M'kay?