>Two influential blogs in the “manosphere” — there may be more, I don’t know — have now posted the names and contact information of Julian Assange’s accusers; I won’t link to the posts. Clearly the purpose of doing this is to encourage harassment of these women. Disgraceful.
EDIT: Some asshole keeps posting the contact info here so I am moderating comments for now.
>And no doubt your little 'manosphere' friends will be along to accuse this post of somehow justifying/trivialising false rape claims based on nothing at all.Ugh. Innocent until proven guilty? The MRA are very fond of yelling about this in one breath (and rightly so – false rape claims are disgraceful) but then doing the exact same thing to any rape claimant while attacking straw-feminists for hypocrisy.It has to work both ways, or not at all.
>Sorry for double-posting – but I do feel sorry for Julian Assange. Whatever you feel about Wikileaks it just goes to show that whether you're male or female, being high-profile in the media blows your chances of a fair trial out of the window.
>I noticed it earlier on one site – very detailed information. Not a surprise coming from that particular person. There's a great possibilty that their actions will be used to justify a need to keep accuser's identities confidential.
>Oh noes, now their names will be as well-known as that of the man they accused, and they might get…*gasp*…some snarky letters mailed to them! Oh the humanity!!! But don't worry David, if YOU are ever falsely accused of rape and I have information about your accuser, I won't release it to anyone.
>they might get…*gasp*…some snarky letters mailed to them!A few months ago I might've believed this was all that was going to happen. Nowadays, though, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody somewhere took it on himself to give them something a bit more fatal than a letter. Even if you want to argue that falsely accusing someone of rape is a crime for which you should be imprisoned/raped/whatever yourself, it's not quite as easy to argue it merits the death penalty. As much as I hate those two women (and I think their charges against Assange are bunk, with apologies to our host), I don't want to see their brains get blown out by some overzealous 4channer or misguided wanna-be MRA either.
>Mr. Assange is not known as a friend of the MRAs, he was actively co-operating with feminist organizations. He never did anything for men, as far as I know. More the opposite.I do not feel really sorry for him, and if you play with fire you will get burnt.Mr. Assange is a political case and has nothing to do with rape. USA wants him and they will do everything they can to get him.False rape allegations, sexual harassment etc. are ideal feminist tools to attack legally any man out of any reason, as the accuser enjoys usually anonymity for life and gets away unpunished.
>"Nowadays, though, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody somewhere took it on himself to give them something a bit more fatal than a letter."There are several people who hate my guts and who know where I live, yet none of them have ever used that information to kill me. You know why that is? See, there's this thing called a criminal code, and murder is one of the most serious crimes in it, usually carrying a penalty of life imprisonment or death. That massive deterrent, combined with the crime being a top priority among both law enforcement and civilian witnesses, makes it quite safe to have your address known even by your worst enemies. Furthermore, there is absolutely no record of any MRA ever murdering or attempting to murder anyone, while the same cannot be said of feminists, lest we forget Valerie Solanas.
>Mr. Assange is not known as a friend of the MRAsAs the old saying goes, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." You're right, you people wouldn't care about him much if he'd been accused of any other crime besides rape. The fact that he was, however, makes him a cause celebre for you folks, even if he may have been a rabid feminist/man-hater/misandrist/mangina/whatever in the past. As a result, it wouldn't surprise me–at all–if some loon on what you consider to be the "fringe" of your movement (or to be fair, some 'tarded 4channer, like I mentioned aboe) takes it on himself to strike a blow against feminism by enacting a bit of vigilante justice on a pair of false accusers.And who knows, maybe even more people than that. Ferdinand Bardamu, who may not be an MRA but certainly isn't a 'hater' of your movement either, has posted a picture of one of the liars' ex-boyfriends based on…an allegation that he *might* have helped her scrub her past off the Internet. From an MRA's perspective, the fight against feminism isn't so bad so long as you're only hurting women, but you might want to think about what you're doing when one of your colleagues begins to target a fellow man simply because he once had something to do with a false accuser God knows how many years ago.
>(forgive the double post, Cold posted this just as I did the previous comment).That massive deterrent, combined with the crime being a top priority among both law enforcement and civilian witnesses, makes it quite safe to have your address known even by your worst enemies. Furthermore, there is absolutely no record of any MRA ever murdering or attempting to murder anyone, while the same cannot be said of feminists, lest we forget Valerie Solanas. Far be it from me to tell you how to keep yourself secure, but considering how many people have been murdered or survived murder attempts by folks they pissed off at some point or another who managed to track them down. Andy Warhol probably regretted the fact that Valerie Solanas knew where to find him, and giving anyone's address to Franz Fuchs would have been a very bad idea, regardless of how much of a deterrent the laws against murder are. If nobody who hates you has attempted to do more than "send you snarky letters" yet, I congratulate you on your luck and hope it continues. I also hope, however, you're smart enough not to bet on it.there is absolutely no record of any MRA ever murdering or attempting to murder anyone,To say this is debatable is an understatement, but for the purposes of argument I'll go along with it. In that case, there's a first time for everything–maybe these two accusers will end up being the first victim of the very first overzealous MRA murderer. I hope that's not the case, but I'm not setting my hopes very high.
>'You're right, you people wouldn't care about him much if he'd been accused of any other crime besides rape."That's pure speculation. In case you didn't know, MRAs are diverse in their opinions. Some might have cared about him if he had been accused of a different crime, others might not have, but only an ignoramus like you would speculate and then extrapolate that speculation to MRAs as a group. MRAs tend to be advocates of bringing the truth to light, which is exactly what Assange did, so if any speculation is in order it is to speculate that MRAs would, in fact, care quite a bit about him."but you might want to think about what you're doing when one of your colleagues begins to target a fellow man simply because he once had something to do with a false accuser God knows how many years ago."It's a fucking PICTURE! It's not like it was a covert photo either, he POSED for it! So now we know his name, what he looks like, and the fact that he was involved with this woman, all pieces of information that he clearly went to no effort to keep private. If that's what constitutes being a "target" then all my friends on Facebook are targeting me.
>"To say this is debatable is an understatement, but for the purposes of argument I'll go along with it."How is it debatable? If you have some record of someone who identified as an MRA murdering or attempting to murder someone, then spill it. Otherwise, it is not at all debatable."In that case, there's a first time for everything–maybe these two accusers will end up being the first victim of the very first overzealous MRA murderer. I hope that's not the case, but I'm not setting my hopes very high."More wild speculation on your part.Oh yeah, Paul Elam and W.F. Price both revealed their addresses many months ago, and they are both hated with a passion by feminists, who, unlike MRAs, actually have some track record of violence, and yet nothing has happened to either of them.
>MRAs tend to be advocates of bringing the truth to light,Are they? I thought they were a diverse group. How can you say they "tend" to be advocates of anything?If that's what constitutes being a "target" then all my friends on Facebook are targeting me. There's a difference, of course, between a few friends keeping pictures of you around and having yours posted by someone you don't know on a blog which gets…well, suffice it to say several times more traffic (to say the least) by a rather more "varied" group of people than would even happen across whatever facebook groups you're probably a part of. Ferdinand's not exactly a nobody, after all.
>How is it debatable? If you have some record of someone who identified as an MRA murdering or attempting to murder someone, then spill it. Otherwise, it is not at all debatable.George Sodini comes to mind. Ah, I know what you'll say–"he didn't explicitly self-identify as MRAs!!!" Perhaps so. But considering how he's been called an "MRA hero" (look at Arpagus' comment), I'm not entirely certain that suspicions about the beneficent and non-violent nature of the MRM are entirely unwarranted.More wild speculation on your part.It is wild speculation, and I hope to god it stays wild speculation that's completely off base. I have a sinking feeling, though, I may end up being more correct than I ever wanted to.Paul Elam and W.F. Price both revealed their addresses many months ago, and they are both hated with a passion by feminists, who, unlike MRAs, actually have some track record of violence, and yet nothing has happened to either of them.Aside from the fact that "something" may happen to them in the future, there's also the fact that as much as feminists hate them, neither of these guys is that famous. Your typical feminist won't know who either of them are, and it's even less likely a feminist outside of the US would know about them. Anna and Sofia, however, are literally world-famous at this point, and as a result, there are considerably more people gunning for them at the moment (as I mentioned, it's not merely you MRAs who wouldn't mind watching them "get what they deserve," the 4channers hate them too). It would hardly be surprising if they met with an unfortunate fate much sooner than either Mr. Elam or Mr. Price.
>As I said before, Mr. Assange is a political case, and he is in danger because of his politically not correct activity against the US-government.MRAs have nothing to do with that.His problems with women are his personal problems and MRAs never recommend his life-style. Read back in our forums. Sleeping around with various women in Sweden and similar feminist countries as a rich and infamous man is the best recipe asking for troubles.About false rape allegations, I do not know about any case which was instigated by MRAs nor do I know about women attacked by MRAs for false rape allegations.Why should we do that? We strongly demand however laws to be changed considering deliberate false rape allegations as a severe crime, as a felony which carries long jail terms as punishment. thevagrantsvoice: maybe these two accusers will end up being the first victim of the very first overzealous MRA murderer Your fantasy is amazing.
>Like I said above, Yohan, I hope to God it remains a fantasy–nothing would make me happier than to find out my fears really are groundless. At this point in my life, though, I'm just too jaded to bet on such a happy outcome.
>LOL, George Sodini can be associated with MRAs because one person called him an "MRA hero"? Well let's see, I'm a person, and I could declare that Adolf Hitler was a feminist, and by your logic that would be a solid association between Hitler and feminism.
>Considering how more than a few MRAs I've seen would argue that Hitler was indeed a feminist of some sort or at least a "female supremacist," I guess so. I hate feminism (apologies to our host, I'm just being honest), so if my logic can associate Hitler with it, that's a good thing in my book.
>Er, your faulty logic could associate anyone with anything, Hitler was just an example. My point, which I obviously must make completely explicit, is that if you want to call Sodini an MRA then you need something a bit better than one person calling him an "MRA Hero" posthumously. Really, you need something said or written by Sodini himself in order associate him with any ideology.Oh, and as far as I know there is no record of 4channers murdering or attempting to murder anyone either. Ultimately, however, it is up to each individual to decide how much attention they want to draw to themselves. If you value your privacy, then think twice before trying to destroy a man's life with a blatantly false rape accusation.
>Really, you need something said or written by Sodini himself in order associate him with any ideology.The excerpts of Sodini's diary I've read sound like they could come right out of an MRA site bemoaning how women only like thugs and badboys (or in Sodini's case, black guys). And that's not even going into the other mass-murderer I can think of, Marc Lepine, whose manifesto, particularly with its excoriations of radical feminists and feminism in general, sounds like something, again, which wouldn't be out of place on an MRA site. Again, you'd claim he "didn't call himself an MRA," but, of course, that was in 1989, when it wasn't as easy to find MRA communities online as it is now. If he were living today rather than back then, I think it's more than likely he'd consider himself a proud MRA.there is no record of 4channers murdering or attempting to murder anyone either.Didn't the Party Van pay Jake Brahms a visit for rather inadvisedly posting plans to bomb a football stadium on /b/ or something? That's at least close to an attempt at some violence. Well, I sure know better than to mess with football, at least.
>vagrant, one of your comments got caught by the spam filter, and it's up now. It's a substantive post and anyone participating in this discussion who missed it should scroll up and read it. It starts off "(forgive the double post,…"
>"Furthermore, there is absolutely no record of any MRA ever murdering or attempting to murder anyone"There have actually been numerous cases involving father's rights activists harassing, threatening, plotting to or using violence against people who opposed or otherwise angered them:http://www.xyonline.net/content/use-violence-fathers%E2%80%99-rights-activists-compilation-news-reportshttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-11985446As for Sodini and Lepine having no connection to MRAs and MGTOW, their writings were virtually indistinguishable from stuff I've found on MRA and/or MGTOW forums, and, yep, some MRAs and MGTOWs have defended them. If you're going to hold feminism responsible for Solanas' attempted murder of Warhol, though I've never seen a single feminist ever justify that act ever, then it's only fair to hold the MRA responsible for Sodini and/or Lepine.Heck, Cold, you may recall someone basically defending Lepine on the "NiceGuy" forum the other day, and no one criticizing him for it until after some blog quoted it. Does any of that sound familiar to you?
>thevagrantsvoice said… Like I said above, Yohan, I hope to God it remains a fantasy … About rants from men, well, some are very angry out of various reasons. We – MRAs – are listen to them. We do not delete their postings, we try to talk with them, asking them to calm down, to move away to another city, to start again a new life.What else can we do? Any advice?
>That's a good question, Yohan. As someone with an aversion to the MRM partially due to the affection for violence some elements display at its fringes, it would please me greatly to see those elements reduced or at least de-fanged. What else can you do? Well, I'm no expert, so you should obviously take what I say with a grain of salt, but one suggestion that I've been banging around since that "Great Debate" a while ago is, why not offer those sorts of men–along with those disturbed elements who seem like they might lash out violently–IRL support as well? Talking them down and trying to convince them to calm down is good, sure, but setting up some sort of IRL charity or group for men to get counseling from male-friendly therapists if they feel themselves on the verge of violence, or some money and a place to stay if they absolutely need to get away from an oppressive environment, or something like that might be very effective.Now, as I believe another commenter back in the Debate thing mentioned, that could run into problems, such as being a target for feminists (the case of Erin Pizzey came up, for instance), fairness because the laws themselves weren't being changed, etc. but then again, it also brings us to one of the advantages of the MRM, in your view–its decentralized nature. No, a foundation dedicated to helping male victims of abuse or reining in disturbed men might attract unwanted feminist attention, but what about a more loose coalition of men online? A list of email addresses guys who were feeling completely overwhelmed, for whatever reason, could send an email and ask for help, either for just a shoulder to lean on or, if they feel like they just can't take anymore, links to male-friendly therapists who could help them work through their feelings of anger, guys who might be able to paypal them some cash or set them up with a place to stay for a few days while they try to pick up and GTFO of an abusive relationship or an environment when they're being harassed by feminists or whatever. Such a loose, "grass-roots" organization would be much harder for feminists or haters of any sort to target, for instance. Now, I wouldn't be much help in setting up such a thing–like I said, I'm no expert, and such a suggestion might be wrong for one reason or another. However, you asked for advice, so I gave a lil' suggestion. Perhaps it can inspire you or somebody else to come up with something better.
>DAVID: There have actually been numerous cases involving father's rights activists harassing, threatening, plotting to or using violence against people who opposed or otherwise angered them: Most of such confrontation could be avoided, but law execution is very biased against men, especially fathers.You refer to the link to Flood and his hoax website XY (similar to your website)He is collecting articles, but so far he collected only data about a few violent fathers (last article is dated 2004, a bit outdated, do you agree?)…Some sentences out of these articles shows that something is wrong.THE publicity stunts pulled off by campaiging fathers might make us smile…(so you find it funny, when fathers have problems?)…lawyers who act for the women also tend to refuse media requests for interviews (just unwilling and arrogant to try to find a solution? To ask for money without respecting visitation rights in return?)….. fathers 4 Justice and other fathers’ rights groups have in the past year adopted similar tactics to animal rights militants where staff have been “named and shamed” on websites. (Why are fathers considered to be bad and animal protectors to be good? Despite it seems they are protesting in a similar way…)Speaking to the Evening Press, he claimed that, despite court orders granting him contact, he had been denied access to his three children for three years and three months. It was, he said, a “living bereavement”.He lived just 75 feet away from the home where his children lived with their mother, he said, and could watch the children walking to school every day, but did not dare approach them for fear of being served with a ‘molestation order’.“I just feel desperate,” he said. “At least when they see me on TV, they know that’s their dad, and that I’m not giving up fighting.”(3 years and 3 months waiting for justice and nothing happens?)David, do you have some better references than XY-Flood the male feminist dated 2004?It's soon 2011!
>Uh, one of the pieces I linked to was from December 13, 1910. As in, a few days ago.