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| Please, no monologuing. |
I have added a few new comment guidelines, and clarified one of the old ones. Please read. I think these will help to curtail some of the derailing that goes on in the comments here, and will help those who want to have actual substantive discussions.
As anyone who comments here knows, I like to be as hands-off as possible with comment moderation, and I don’t censor people for disagreeing with me. But I will be more aggressive in the future in dealing with those who seem more interested in disrupting or monologuing than discussing, and those who repeatedly misrepresent what others say.
>Prime example above of a feminist making false allegations about rape and abuse, its par for course with some of these people, american feminism has moved on since its days of racial hygiene and the wkkk, now they make false allegations about rape and abuse about all men.Go on tec, go get the posts where you went and misrepresented people as being pro abuse and rape.
>So, Bishop or Random or whatever your fake name is,How's it going with the whole growing-the-movement thing?Not so great, huh? You guys have been at it for, what, ten years, give or take a few? And you still have only a couple thousand worldwide who are crazy enough to identify with the whole movement? Yikes…..sounds like someone needs to tend to their backyard before making a fool of himself trying to disparage someone else.Eh, oh well…..you guys will see it for the failure it is in another year or so, and will scrap it and go back to the drawing board AGAIN to see if maybe you canm frame it in a way that will actually interest other men.Sadly, what you guys continue to FAIL to realize is that normal men do not THINK the way you all do.So you can come here all you want and try to make David look the fool, but the truth is that….well, why don't you finish that sentence for me. Poor, delusional man.
>I define winning an argument, if that's what you're getting at, as a systematic and acceptable refutation of a statement or claim which the unbiased observer would find convincing.IR, no offense, but as something of an "unbiased observer" m'self–I don't think I can be called an MRA or a feminist–I at least haven't really found the arguments of MRAs here to be all that convincing. Despite having a few constructive exchanges with several of them, namely you, Deansdale, men-factor, antifeministtech, and Schopenbecq, the time I've spent on this blog and watching the conversations here have made me considerably less sympathetic to the Men's Rights Movement than I used to be–and I started out liking the MRM somewhat more than I liked feminism.That said, this isn't a victory for feminism either. I call myself a "vagrant" or "wanderer" because I get the feeling I don't fit in very easily in one camp or another (in this case, feminists and MRAs), and much of what Mr. Futrelle has written here has made me even leerier of feminism than I was before. Still, I myself am just a guest here, and have probably overstayed my welcome (I thought I'd have left after the Great Debate finished up, but I've since managed to stick around). Thus, I suppose I'll refrain from criticizing our host any further.
>@Voice – I personally am always open to constructive criticism. Would you be willing to specify what aspects of the exchanges made you less sympathetic to the MRM?
>IR,I know you're not addressing me here, but are you REALLY open to constructive critisism? Because many of us have offered it to you guys, and you all, including you, have yet to do anything other than project and deflect.
>Miranda said… So, Bishop or Random or whatever your fake name is,How's it going with the whole growing-the-movement thing?Not so great, huh? You guys have been at it for, what, ten years, give or take a few? And you still have only a couple thousand worldwide who are crazy enough to identify with the whole movement? BTW, you are also using a fake name.MRAs are very active now worldwide and the movement is growing. 10 years ago, the 'MRA – Men's Rights Movement' was unknown and received after an explication only a smile. – Today femininists are afraid of us, the 'female smile' is gone and replace by slander. It depends where you are living in this world, in Germany feminists are collecting signatures demanding to change the new family law 2008 – which for the first time is in favor of men and children – the law, already with cases of precedence by the Supreme Court 2010 shows significant changes regarding alimony and child-support. About USA, there are not so few MRAs as you think, and it seems you are pretty afraid of such movements.Feminism is not productive and MRAs are doing everything they can to cut off financial support to such organizations.http://www.tahirih.org/2010/09/tahirih-is-being-tested/ Dear Friends:I write you with distressing news. For 8 years, Tahirih received a Legal Assistance for Victims grant from the Office of Violence Against Women (VAWO) at the US Department of Justice. This grant has provided critical funds ($500,000 over a two year period) to fund our direct legal services for women and girls fleeing domestic violence and sexual assault. We’ve recently received news that the grant will not be renewed this year. This was not anticipated and will have a devastating impact on our ability to serve women and girls fleeing human rights abuses. Tahirih has never experienced the loss of such a large amount of money at one time and is being tested like never before.Tahirih is this hateful and arrogant feminist US-organization, which masterminded the law of VAWA-IMBRA regarding internet-dating between US-men and foreign women.
>@ TECTEC said: "BishopYeah, David has torn to shreds every BS argument you MPAs have come up with, with quite a bit of style…"If you call tearing to shreds, whining and screeching: HE CHANGED THE RULES, over and over again winning, well then I guess that's winning. TEC said: "Also, gotta love how the only way a guy could be a feminist – i.e. think of women as human beings – would be in order to get sex (of course, because women only give sex, not for their own sexual gratification, but to control men.)"Dear feminism does not equal thinking of women as human beings. Modern day feminism is mainly about giving women near limitless options, while crushing men's options. TEC said: "Out of curiousity, does everything a man does boil down to sex?"No.Tec: "Or is that just a consequence of the Two Rules of Desire meme? Of course, if you think women are human beings or that men are human beings, you don't believe BS like the Two Rules of Desire…"I don't know what this is.Random Brother
>@ MirandaDear, the MRA IS growing and quite frankly it doesn't matter if you like what we say or how we say it. It doesn't matter if we have placards on walls or billboards or tv commercials, do you know why? It's because we have a built in recruiting device. Do you want to know what it is? I'll let you in on a little secret, it's you.Feminuts like you who pass laws that strip men of their rights and strip mine men of their assets. See right now somewhere in America, hell even in the world, there's some nice guy. He believes all of the hype about women being the gentler sex, and more compassionate,while just as smart and tough as men. In other words he's an AFC. And sooner or later Mr. Nice Guy is going to get married or have a relationship with Ms. Empowered by feminism woman, and he's going to get SCREWED.He's going to lose money. He's going to lose face. He may even lose his freedom. And when this happens and he understands the complete indifference of the modern women in general and feminsts in particular well he's going to start wondering WTF. Eventually he'll stumble across a website or two about MRA'S and he won't look at us as "crazy" but he'll see how the puzzle fits. And while he's living in van down by the river feminuts like you will be telling him he's about his male privilege. About how bad women have it in society, and he'll know it's bull. You'll do what you do. Call him names. Say he's a loser. Misogynist. Can't get a woman. Sneer. Snark. Call him a rapist. Eventually he'll rebuild his life and he'll do it without the help of your kind and the value of women which he once help in high regard will completely dissipate.The problem Miranda dear is that his real life experience combined with the objective facts about what is happening to men will overcome your lies. And eventaully when enough men have been through the ringer, your feminist bullshit, will be put to an end.Random Brother
>Miranda you are quite wrong about the mens movement not going anywhere, and cherry picking comments on one or two sites isn't going to stop it.Richard Dawkins on women studies "education" and bullying by anti intellectual feminism in academiahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzNwjfbVt-USchools in UK move to end discrimination against boys in education.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzNwjfbVt-UGerman family minister dismisses various feminist superstitions, german feminists respond typically with personal attack and little elsehttp://www.the-spearhead.com/2010/11/10/german-family-minister-slams-feminism/Not to the mind body of evidence that completely debunks patriarchal abuse theory and many other feminist superstitions.I cant speak for the other guys here, but I view feminists as armed with little other than their political dogma, superstition, advocacy research, revisionist history, personal attacks, slurs, false allegations of abuse, rape and teen girl relational type violence/snark and the cherry picked comments of a minority from a couple of websites. You don't have anything of real substance going for you in this debate.
>David is you spam filter holding up a post of mine?
>Yes it was, the comment is up now.