>Further Reading: The Gender Pay Gap

>Note, however, that if the difference is due to actual difference between the genders (men are statistically stronger than women for example) then this is acceptable difference based on gender. However, such actual difference between the genders does not explain the pay gap.

>EDIT – Female ceos and women….

>"If you really want to see who has the wealth, look at the shoes, women of every class wear better shoes than the men of their class."This is my favorite argument so far.

>"It is wrong that female talent is more desired than male."Spare us your moral absolutism. There is no way to prove that any particular desire or lack thereof is right or wrong, and that is completely irrelevant to the topic."We want equality between the genders, that means equal opportunity."We all have an equal opportunity to be desired, what you seem to want is equal outcome. The pay gap in the porn industry, which favors women, exists because of millenia of biological programming, and you seem to think that you have the authority to claim that this is morally "wrong"? Why is it wrong? Apparently, it's because you say so.

>"Clear proof of a glass ceiling, unless you think women are genetically inferior at CEO-ing."Try looking down for a change, through the glass floor, at all the men working dirty, dangerous jobs and often getting low pay in spite of that dirt and danger. Over 90% of workplace fatalities are male, and by your logic that's clear proof of a glass floor unless you think that men are genetically inferior at staying alive.

>Facts about the "Purse Power" of women:Women are the dominant spending force in almost every retail/business category and are the most affluent and influential consumers of today. * Of all consumer purchases, women are responsible for 83% * Homes: Directly purchase or influence the purchase of 91% of all new homes * Home fix-up purchases: More than 55% * Retail: Account for 88% of customers in the US & Canada * Auto: Make more than 50% of all auto purchases and influence 85%. * Home furnishings: 94% * Vacation choices: 92% * House purchases: 91% * Consumer electronics purchases: 51% (women are involved in 89% of all consumer electronic purchase decisions) * Home Computers: Account for 66% of all purchases * Bank Accounts: Hold 89% of all accounts * Credit Cards: Women carry 76 million credit cards, 8 million more then men—(Fast Company, 2004) * Healthcare: Make 80% of Healthcare decisions and account for 67% of spending * Health: Purchase 65% of herbal remedies, vitamins and minerals and purchase 80% of all healthcare * Beauty and hygiene: Purchase more than 90% * Clothes, accessories: Wear more than 90% of items such as jewelry and perfume * Meetings: Plan the meetings and comprise the majority of certified meeting planners * Office Supplies: Purchase $44.5 billion * Lawn movers: Purchase approximately 81% of riding lawn mowersAll facts noted above are from the 2005 Wow! Quick Facts book and the U.S. Census Bureau, 2004

>* It is expected that by 2010, women will control 60% of wealth in the United States. – from the new Allianz Women, Money, and Power Study. 2006And dont forget the shoes… whoever heard of an oppressed group that wear better shoes than their oppressors?

>Cold, on the dangerous jobs issue. There are certain professions that have traditionally been male, and others that have traditionally been female. Some of these male fields are dangerous.Thing is, feminists have always pushed for equal access in all jobs. Including the dangerous ones. Feminists want men and women to be able to do the same work, for the same pay, in every profession.All that said, the fact that people, mostly men, are dying or getting badly injured in the workplace is a very bad thing. I don't think anyone, male or female, should have to take the risks that some workers, mostly male, have to take to earn a living at their particular job. Interestingly, I haven't ever seen the MRM actually campaign to increase awareness of job safety. This topic always comes up in the MRM as a way to bash feminists and/or women.

>David, women spend more on themselves than men. Quite a bit more.Women are not an oppressed class. Single women get paid more than men, women at the top get paid more their peers, the married women that dont work or work part time that make up the wage gap spend more on themselves and own at least half of their husbands wages.Everything has moved on since the 1970s, except feminist rhetoric it seems.

>"Thing is, feminists have always pushed for equal access in all jobs. Including the dangerous ones."Do you have any examples of feminists pushing for women's access to dangerous jobs, particularly dirty and LOW-PAYING dangerous jobs like working in sanitation?"Interestingly, I haven't ever seen the MRM actually campaign to increase awareness of job safety."I can tell that this is a world from which you have been far-removed for your entire life. We ALREADY HAVE thorough safety regulations for workplaces, which exist because MEN successfully advocated for them decades ago, and injuries and fatalities for these dangerous jobs are fraction of what they would be without these regulations.However, as anyone who has actually worked a dangerous job can tell you, you can't just legislate away all the danger. Even when every precaution is taken, things can go wrong. I'll even admit that a large number of these workplace fatalities are due to men not correctly following procedure, although when any particular worker fails to follow procedure he are just as likely to end up causing the death of his co-worker, who DID follow all the rules, as he is to cause his own death. Only someone with ZERO life experience with what goes on beneath the glass floor would think that you could erase the danger with some kind of legislation or awareness campaign. You can mitigate the danger and reduce the number of fatalities, which is absolutely worth doing, but it has ALREADY BEEN DONE.

>Eoghan, huh? Women do plenty of low-paying dirty jobs — domestic work, for example. Sanitation workers actually earn surprisingly good wages, much better than domestic workers who also spend their time cleaning up other people's garbage. Indeed, if you look at labor history, when labor organizers tried to organize domestic workers (almost all female) they aspired to the status and pay of sanitation workers. See here: http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~cobble/Cobble_Spontaneous_Loss.pdf"Dorothy Bolden, a veteran community and civil-rights activist who hadstarted cleaning houses in 1935 at the age of twelve, founded a domestic-workersorganization in Atlanta in 1968 . Its aim was to improve working conditionsand build "respect for the women in this low-income field of labor ." … Similar groups organized in some two dozen other cities across thecountry. As one participant explained, "The garbage men have been upgradedto sanitation workers, with all the benefits, and that's just what we have to do,""And here: http://www.basicincome.org/bien/pdf/dublin08/4diizellekeftbi.pdfAn this: "Gender neutrality maymandate that the occupations of sanitation worker and day care worker both be open tomen and women without bias, for example, but does nothing to rectify the largeimbalance in pay and benefits between the largely male occupation of sanitation workerand the largely female occupation of day care worker, despite the similar educational andtraining levels requirements for both positions, and the similarly low-skilled, somewhatphysical and dirty nature of the jobs performed by both.14"

>David's research is very much biased claiming all women are poor and hardworking, while men are rich and doing nothing.He fails to identify even one company, which pays less to women than to men.He fails also to see the situation in other countries, where feminists are showing up persistently with similar arguments but fail to prove such claims.In Germany women are working up to 12 hours less than men per week, which should result in lower pay of course. But David does not write anything about working hours and overtime pay.In Austria women work up to 60 years of age, and men work up to 65 years of age, 5 years difference, which should result in lower pay, if you calculate the income for life-time. (average 40 years : 45 years) – But David does not write anything about how many years women are working compared to men.Retirement allowances are also unfair against men in Europe, they work longer and die earlier.David does not consider retirement allowances and for how many years they are paid and to whom they are paid – often to a widow, as the man died earlier.About hard and dangerous labour we got the best example recently from Chile. Mining and trapped – and not even one person trapped in the mine was a female, and not even one person working to drill day and night to rescue them was a female.David ignores the fact, that men are also on the other side of the life – not all of them are CEO – and are the clear majority of people in prison, of homeless people, of people out of job, handicapped men … worldwide.In USA, it is often up to the individual to earn your money yourself – for what do you need an employer?Start your own business, but again, the huge majority of people starting their own business are men – David of course is writing nothing about this… as usual.Interesting to mention the fact that there are female employers too, but they are not known to pay more to women than to men. I wonder why? Maybe David can explain and answer all my questions to him … but I don't think so.