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feminism masculinity MRA rape violence against men/women

>That’s not funny: Prison rape jokes

>

Looking back through older posts on the OneY subreddit on Reddit, a relatively new and very promising subreddit devoted to men’s issues, I ran across a surprisingly civil and illuminating discussion of prison rape jokes. “Scarletbanner” opened the discussion by asking why there is a double standard with regard to these jokes:

As someone [who’s] majoring in Criminal Justice, I hear comments when the topic of women being raped that it’s “fucked up shit”, yet when the subject turns to prison rape, it’s a massive joke… from derogatory comments regarding sexual preference to “don’t drop the soap”. Between 43,000-140,000+ are raped each year ffs, with men (especially homosexuals) as the largest targeted group…

The typical Men’s Rights take on this is that there’s a double standard “because nobody gives a shit about men,” as EddieVanHelsing put it in a comment there. This explanation doesn’t take us very far, given that women are also raped in prison, and that people make jokes about that too.

Others in the discussion offered more incisive takes on the issue. puffinmuffin pointed out that

the problem is NO ONE CARES about people in jail. No one gives a shit about prisoner’s rights. It really isn’t an issue about raping, it’s an issue about the fucked up system that no one cares enough to fix. Conditions in a lot of jails are downright abhorrent. Unsanitary environments, abuse, horrid bureaucracy … But no one cares. They think, “Oh, well, they’re criminals so they deserve whatever.”

Archythearchivist, a self-described “XX, card carrying, baby eatin’ feminist” suggested that the double standard

is perhaps more indicative of the way that masculinity is viewed. Male rape is funny (to some) because it subverts common narratives of male virility and roles. It’s a “joke” where the main idea is that the world is a certain way, and only certain less masculine men would be raped. … It bases itself on a world that supposedly does not exist, at least not for “real” men. … These jokes should be considered as tasteless and hateful as any other rape joke.

But perhaps the most thoughtful comment came from AlphaCygni, who noted that there had recently been a post on Reddit

from a guy who had been sexually abused in a juvenile detention facility. Apparently there was systematic abuse and rape of young boys within this facility. What struck me the most about the [discussion of this on Reddit] was the number of individuals asking the victim why he didn’t just bite the dicks of his attackers. It was a situation so far out of their mindset, they couldn’t imagine how a person can be made to feel so powerless and scared that their primary focus is on staying alive rather than avoiding emasculation. Rape as a real possibility is something that just never seriously occurs to most men and, since they never think about, they can’t place themselves in the victim’s shoes. …

All that being said, I do know some women who joke about rape. I know a rape victim who makes rape jokes. I know other rape victims who can’t stand them. I think if more people could experience what it’s like to be the object of unwanted, intense, sexual attraction by someone who is more powerful than you, there would be less rape jokes overall except by those who enjoy gallows humor. I think that if more men were allowed to openly share their rape experiences and men were to listen to these poor individuals and try to put themselves in their shoes instead of asking how they could allow such a thing to happen, or discounting their masculinity, prison rape jokes wouldn’t be seen widely as funny.

The whole comment is worth reading; this is only an excerpt.

Prison rape is a disgrace, and jokes about it don’t help. Because most of those in prison are male, it primarily affects men. But women in prison are more than twice as likely to be raped or abused by other inmates than men. And, as Scarletbanner alluded to in the comment that started off the discussion, gays (and transsexuals) face a much higher risk of rape in prison.

I’m preparing a “further reading” post on prison rape, but in the meantime if you’re looking for more information on the subject, I suggest you start with the fact sheets on the web site of Just Detention International, a human rights advocacy group working to stop sexual abuse in detention facilities worldwide; the pictures I used to illustrate this post come from a media campaign by the group.

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Eoghan
9 years ago

>Another great post David, yes we should suppress male victims of prison rape in the name of feminism too and of course the people that object to that are politically incorrect. Men make up 30% of rape victims outside of prison and the number of men raped in prison out numbers the number of women that are raped outside.That said, I dont think that victims or rape should be prioritized on the basis of their sex or orientation as you are suggesting here.

Eoghan
9 years ago

>Some reading on politically incorrect victims of rape herehttp://feck-blog.blogspot.com/search/label/Raped%20malesI think this is a good topic for you to raise, its another area of victim hood and perpetration that is not at all gendered but is presented to us as such by the feminist propaganda machine.

Eoghan
9 years ago

>Here are some more mra douchbags advocating for politically incorrect victims locked out by the feminist monopoly, you should mock them next.. http://toysoldier.wordpress.com/but then you dont really have to mock them directly when you can just stereotype them by making out that the worst, most obscure commentary you can find is representive of them by showing it to your gullible readership in a vacume.

Cold
9 years ago

>"This explanation doesn't take us very far, given that women are also raped in prison, and that people make jokes about that too."You forgot to hyperlink that to an example of a joke being made about women raped in prison. Oh, wait, you didn't forget, you just couldn't link to such an example because none exist.

Christine
9 years ago

>MRA's wouldn't help the woman either way…and Paul Elam and his worshipers would set her rapist free.

David Futrelle
9 years ago

>"the number of men raped in prison out numbers the number of women that are raped outside." This is simply false; my upcoming "further reading" post on prison rape will go into the numbers.

Eoghan
9 years ago

>LOLChristine, dont try to pretend that an extremist stand against feminist reductions in legal, civil and human rights is the same thing as wanting all rapists free, yourself and David mock and oppress politically incorrect abuse victims and misrepresent in order to discredit all their advocates. Feminism is the moral low ground here and this site is an advertisment for feminist malevolence and bigotry.

Eoghan
9 years ago

>Oh David, you've set yourself up as judge, jury and exectuioner of abuse victims, you think your get to decide which ones exist and which ones don't, which ones deserve help and which ones dont, all based on whether they are politically correct or not, of course.Even if you can use numbers to suppress male victims of rape in prison, 30% of rape victims outside prison are male and the prison count easily pushes the total number if male rape victims in society above that of female.Its such a shame that your victim politics reduces abuse victims to political pawns. It will so much less tastless when the feminist monopoly and view on victimhood is replaced by humanitarian ideals and there is no longer such a thing as worthy and unworthy victims.

David Futrelle
9 years ago

>Uh, where exactly have any of us mocked male victims of abuse?

Christine
9 years ago

>@David,Is there an option on this blog that will allow me to completely "ignore" an obnoxious person, perhaps block all their comments from my view?

Eoghan
9 years ago

>Here you go David, victims to mock and suppress.. ^ Human Rights WatchNo Escape: Male Rape In U.S. Prisons. Part VII. Anomaly or Epidemic: The Incidence of Prisoner-on-Prisoner Rape.; estimates that 100,000-140,000 violent male-male rapes occur in U.S. prisons annually; compare with FBI statistics that estimate 90,000 violent male-female rapes occur annually.[www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offenses/violent_crime/forcible_rape.html^ Robert W. Dumond, "Ignominious Victims: Effective Treatment of Male Sexual Assault in Prison," August 15, 1995, p. 2; states that "evidence suggests that [male-male sexual assault in prison] may a staggering problem"). Quoted in Mariner, Joanne. 2001. "No Escape: Male Rape In U.S. Prisons. ISBN 1564322580^ Struckman-Johnson, Cindy and David Struckman Johnson. 2006. A Comparison of Sexual Coercion Experiences Reported by Men and Women in Prison. Journal of Interpersonal Violence, Vol. 21, No. 12, 1591-1615 (2006)DOI: 10.1177/0886260506294240; reports that "Greater percentages of men (70%) than women (29%) reported that their incident resulted in oral, vaginal, or anal sex. More men (54%) than women (28%) reported an incident that was classified as rape."

Eoghan
9 years ago

>Here are some douchbag mras with their typical "girls behaving badly" craphttp://female-offenders.com/Safehouse/Oh and heres that clip about feminist supression of politically incorrect victims of CSA againhttp://www.manwomanmyth.com/video/family/child-abuse/better run off and find a comment by some fool to use to discredit and stereotype these douchbag advocates for politically incorrect CSA victims, right David?

David Futrelle
9 years ago

>Eoghan: Several of those links on prison rape are already in the "further reading" post I just posted. How on earth does anything I've written on the subject count as "mocking" or "suppression?" Christine, unfortunately, no.

Pam
Pam
9 years ago

>WTF are you on about, Eoghan?! Nobody here is mocking or suppressing male victims of rape! Or is it bothering you that, at least in this particular instance, David doesn't agree with the standard, catch-all MRA mantra, "because nobody gives a shit about men" to explain why prison rape seems to be a big joke to many? That certainly doesn't mean that David (or anyone else here or elsewhere, for that matter) thinks that prison rape and prison rape jokes are A-okay!But if you want to stick with "because nobody gives a shit about men", it seems to me that men raping other men in prison and men joking about prison rape points to the fact that MEN don't give a shit about OTHER MEN, and that has NOTHING to do with feminism, since men raping other men was happening LOOOOOONG before feminism existed!!The first Prisoners' Voices comment at the site for which you provided a link, Eoghan, is very telling to me:"I had no choice but to submit to being Inmate B's prison wife. Out of fear for my life, I submitted to sucking his dick, being fucked in my ass, and performing other duties as a woman, such as making his bed. In all reality, I was his slave, as the Officials of the Arkansas Department of Corrections under the ‘color of law' did absolutely nothing"He was treated like a woman and had to submit to being another inmate's wife. So the misandry expressed by prison rape (and jokes about it) is deeply rooted in misogyny.

Eoghan
9 years ago

>This is what your blog seems to be about David, suppressing voices that advocate for fair treatment for politically incorrect abuse victims with mockery and claiming that their exclusion by the feminist controlled abuse industry is justified.You focus on foolish comments and misrepresenting comments from a couple of areas of the mrm, and pretend that they are representive of the whole.

David Futrelle
9 years ago

>"So the misandry expressed by prison rape (and jokes about it) is deeply rooted in misogyny."And homophobia: as I note in my latest post, lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender inmates are 15 times more likely to be raped.

David Futrelle
9 years ago

>Eoghan: how does linking to the same sources you linked to count as "suppression?"

Pam
Pam
9 years ago

>You're right, David, I was referring only to the misandry of heterosexual male on male prison rape, and I should have clarified that.I also am of the opinion that male-to-male homophobia is, in large part, rooted in misogyny as well.

Eoghan
9 years ago

>DavidPam, male on male rape doesn't victimize women, dont try to capitalize on male rape victims by making it about women.David you are playing politics with rape victims, your "futher reading" is slanted at prioritizing the politically correct victims over the correct while discrediting sites that advocate for politically incorrect victims of csa.

Pam
Pam
9 years ago

>The man says it in his own words, Eoghan, "as a woman". I sure as hell didn't put those words in his mouth!!Now, does that mean that we should not focus on male victims of rape? No, it does not. Does that mean that a male cannot be a victim of rape, but only a woman? No, it does not. You're missing the point, as usual.

Miriam
9 years ago

>I was going to comment and suggest you set up comment moderation on this blog, since you seem to get so much hostile traffic and responses containing personal attacks.Then I realised these comments actually serve as reinforcement to your message – commenters like Eoghan are writing their own condemnation by totally missing the point and making a loud embarrassing fuss of it under all your articles.So… as you were, then.

David Futrelle
9 years ago

>Miriam, that's pretty much how I see it too. But I don't leave things completely open any more. I experimented at first with leaving the comments completely unfiltered, and allowing anonymous comments. But the really noxious comments were hindering actual discussion. So now I do delete the most obnoxious slurs and personal attacks as soon as I see them.

Cold
9 years ago

>" Cold: try this google search for a start: http://www.google.com/search?q=prison+bull+dyke&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a"Results of that search:"Your search – http://www.google.com/search?q=prison+bull+dyke&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org … – did not match any documents."Stat classy, Fucktrelle.

Cold
9 years ago

>So this is your idea of a joke about women being raped in prison? Or did you actually mean this?PROTIP: Just because YOU get certain results at the top of the list for a certain search on Google doesn't mean everyone else does. Google's algorithms take your location into account, and there is a big, big, world out there.Here's an idea, how about you stop stalling for time with Google searches that go nowhere and either give me an actual link to a site that contains jokes about women being raped in prison, or admit that you were talking out of your ass.

Eoghan
9 years ago

>Im not aware of rape of women in prison jokes as a cultural norm either, if it was there wouldnt be a disagreement over whether it is or not. The answer would be there for all to see.And I dont think female prison rapes are the sort of teeth knocked out gang rapes that you will find in male prisons, women are housed in much better facilities than male prisoners are.Americas war on drugs and feminism war on family and feminist jurisprudences erosion of civil, legal and human rights has lead to a very serious problems for young, particularly black men in america.

bishopsinister
9 years ago

>David is right! He's not mocking anyone! I mean if he was mocking male victims of prison rape he'd do something tacky, like show a picture of a bar of soap, but Dave would never to that.Random Brother

David Futrelle
9 years ago

>RB, the bar of soap, as indicated by the caption, and by the text on the soap, was part of a media campaign by the group Stop Prisoner Rape, which is now the group Just Detention. It was designed to get people to think twice before making prison rape jokes. As for the lesbian prison jokes:El Dorado officials seek details of double killing – Topix19 posts – 7 authors – Last post: Jul 22, 2008I hope she gets her skanky ass beat in prison by some bull dyke. I hope she suffers like she has made the family of these two innocent women …www.topix.com/forum/city/…ca/T3AQV8K0TH6U0O3DP -Rubio: Republican alternative not 'all that complicated' – CNN …Aug 28, 2010… Obama and Pelosi sharing a prison cell after January, or Pelosi in an all female prison being pleasured by her bull dyke base. …politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/…/rubio-republican-alternative-not-all-that-complicated/ – Paris Hilton ordered back to jail – The Superficial – Because You …Paris Hilton has been ordered back to jail in Lynwood and will serve out her … the 300lb bull dyke name Laverne wanted “Tinkerbell” to be. …www.thesuperficial.com/paris_hilton_back_in_jail-06-2007 -Lori Drew Jury Nears Verdict on Three Charges, Struggles With …Nov 25, 2008 … the cows in the prison she's going to are going to give this CUNT what she deserves. hope a bull dyke makes her like a fucking hell …www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/11/noverdict/ Girl gets Ambushed and Beatdown – Fight Videos – GorillaFights.comI hope they go to prison and get backed into a corner by some huge bull dyke who smacks them around. smokyman (942 days ago) …www.gorillafights.com › Girl Fights t r u t h o u t | Lawsuit Filed Against Gonzales & DOJ OfficialsI'd love to see Monica Goody-two-shoes share a prison cell with some bull dyke. I grit my teeth every time I see a rerun of her …www.truth-out.org/article/lawsuit-filed-against-gonzales-doj-officials – Paris Hilton's new Reality Series: 'Simpleton in Jail'Apr 19, 2007 … Sources say that Paris is very worried about going to jail. … middle or about sharing a cell with Bertha, the prison's alpha bull dyke. …www.xomba.com/paris_hiltons_new_reality_series_simpleton_in_jail -http://bgobsession.com/showthread.php?t=17489THE WEEKLY VICE: Jessica Langford Was Naked And Drunk Behind The …Sep 8, 2009 … She should get a light sentence, maybe six months in prison. However that will be enough for a bull dyke to latch onto her and convert her …www.theweeklyvice.com/…/jessica-langford-was-naked-and-drunk.html Lindsay Lohan Jail-Time Likely To Be Fraction Of SentenceJul 6, 2010 … I hear those bull dykes in jail are VERY EXCITED about your comin' to play with them! Show 'em your stuff girl!! cager97: Hey Lindsay. …www.huffingtonpost.com/…/lindsay-lohan-jail-time-l_n_637194.html Pink's Ass Is A Gift / iGossipOct 9, 2009 … I'm not a fan of the ****ty prison tattoos, if she's not careful some massive bull dyke is going to make her it's bitch. …igossip.com/gossip/Pink_s_Ass_Is_A_Gift/983865

Cold
9 years ago

>Hoping someone gets raped in prison isn't a joke, it's a wish.I have yet to see ANY movie or TV show (besides Family Guy, bravo Seth MacFarlane) where women being raped in prison or elsewhere is a laughing matter. Your suggestion that "people make jokes about that too" falls flat on its face if all you can find is a couple of random comments. Most of your examples were wishes or warnings, only a couple of them qualify as jokes.

Tec
Tec
9 years ago

>@Cold There are plenty of women-being-raped jokes period. Men-being-raped jokes usually are prison jokes since that's (at least perceived by popular culture) where men get raped.Here's a "great" thread on the subject of rape jokes:http://www.tribalwar.com/forums/archive/t-387483.htmlAnd when someone mentioned a real rape victim, look at the comments:"Rape is so not cool :(My g/f was raped….now i am sad.""rebeltorumble what she won't tell you is she enjoyed it""she misses that rough cock in hersemen dripping out of herunderwear pulled down to her anklesask herIts not rape if you like it…""she was probably asking for it"and so on…The people who make rape jokes are rape apologists and/or rapists themselves. Period. Melissa at Shakesville has done over 50 posts about the subject of rape jokes in: "Rape is Hilarious". http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2010/08/rape-is-hilarious-part-53-in-ongoing.htmlKate at Shapely Prose posted on the comments to Melissa's original post (I think they were deleted/banned), such gems as:"◦The only tragedy is that a bullet didn’t rip through your brainstem after you were used for your one and only purpose in this world. You should consider yourself lucky that some man finds a hideous troll like yourself rape-able.""Feminazi’s like you are ruining this country, ride a fucking bike you fucking moon of Jupiter. P.S. whoever raped you could have just waited at the exit of a bar at 3am and gotten it consenually without the beached whale-like “struggle” you probably gave. What a shit load of fuck." http://kateharding.net/2007/05/16/let-me-save-you-the-trouble-i-know-im-a-fat-cunt-and-ive-already-been-raped/

Eoghan
9 years ago

>TecThere is a double standard when it comes to male victims of rape.

Tec
Tec
9 years ago

>@Eoghan"There is a double standard when it comes to female victims of rape."

Eoghan
9 years ago

>em no Tec, you make no sense and you are doing the rape apologist thing, rape of females is viewed as the most serious crime there is even though its not, and its also the most publicized. Rape of men is still in the closet. There is a double standard when it comes to female victims of rape that works in the favour of female victims of rape.

Tec
Tec
9 years ago

>I'm just parroting back what you say. I said that before I was going to do that. Try reading. But BTW, there is a clear double standard:MRAs think rape against women can't happen at all (because all women lie/ it's not really rape/insert rape myth here)MRAs think rape against men is a serious crime that requires more attentionSeems rather like a double standard to me…And I'm not a rape apologist. Fuck you, I'm not the one going "oh but all rapes are false allegations!" In fact, I think you specifically said something to that affect. Yes, rape against men is a horrible crime that needs more attention. But so is rape against women. Rape culture is so pervasive throughout our society it's unnerving. "rape of females is viewed as the most serious crime there is even though its not" Nice trivializing. Hy-po-crite. Have you ever even been the victim of a violent crime? Who are you to make that judgement of what's the worst? How fucking entitled is that? Not everyone thinks as you. (No, really, it's true!) So don't make dumbass assumptions about what's the "worst" crime is, because different people have different views. The real truth is rape isn't considered a serious crime by many people. Want proof? Go troll your MRA friends' sites.

David Futrelle
9 years ago

>Cold, that last post? Over the line. It's gone now.

Cold
9 years ago

>Which part was over the line? The rape Tourette's observation or the Star Wars reference? Don't worry about any DMCA complaints; comparisons to Star Wars characters have long been established as fair use.

Cold
9 years ago

>"The real truth is rape isn't considered a serious crime by many people. Want proof? Go troll your MRA friends' sites."Ok, let's do that. Hmm, what does the False Rape Society site have to say about rape?"We know that false reports are more frequent than for any other SERIOUS CRIME[emphasis mine], and this casts doubt on the claim that women are reluctant to report rape."http://falserapesociety.blogspot.com/2009/11/there-are-many-fraudulent-reports-of.htmlGee Tec, looks like my MRA friends DO think rape is a serious crime.

typeemedy
typeemedy
9 years ago

hello! somebody maybe use google?

[URL=http://google.com]google[/URL]

Mark
Mark
4 years ago

@David

“But women in prison are more than twice as likely to be raped or abused by other inmates than men.”

So women in prison are more than twice as likely to rape or abuse other female inmates?

Do we have any links to provide the evidence for this?

I’m not saying that your unsupported assertion is necessarily wrong, but when I hear stats like that, I like to know where the source of this information (or possibly disinformation) comes from.

And if this information is true, are we to conclude that women are more prone to violence than men?

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

Did Mark seriously necro a six-year-old post for that? Bloody hell.

kupo
kupo
4 years ago

I think that’s a new avatar he’s generated, too, which means yet another sock account. Can’t just go your own way, can you, Mark?

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

Same Mark, or no? Whatever, apparently Mark doesn’t realize that there are usually male corrections officers working at women’s prisons.

PeeVee the Sarcastic
PeeVee the Sarcastic
4 years ago

We can conclude you’re disingenuous, Mark, and rape jokes still aren’t funny, even 6 years after this was posted.

weirwoodtreehugger: communist bonobo

Maybe Mark is that Eoghan commenter you can see if you scroll up. It’s my understanding from perusing the archives that he was banned and then caught socking many, many times.

Viscaria
Viscaria
4 years ago

Links on the very next fucking post, Mark. Of course, they’re a bit outdated, since we’re 6 years into the archives.

Mark
Mark
4 years ago

Thanks for all your surprisingly hostile posts.

“Links on the very next fucking post Mark”

Why so rude to someone who just asked a question?

Didn’t David F himself say that most trolls become very quickly abusive?

If there was a link to the study on the next post, then how about just pasting in the link instead of being abusive?

Is this the way you treat everybody who comes into this site asking for clarification?

How would you feel if you logged into a site and asked for information and somebody swore in their answer to you?

I actually thought that this might be a forum for genuine discussion, but you guys act more like a lynch mob.

I can only imagine the response I’d get if I’d actually said something offensive instead of just asking for some backing evidence in support of an assertion.

Goodbye, crazy inmates I will leave you alone in your echo chamber ready to pounce on the next unsuspecting victim foolish enough to expect actual non abusive dialog here.

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
4 years ago

Dude, you totally don’t sound like a troll at all. /s