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| Actual Father’s Rights Demonstrators |
This is the first in what will be a series of “Further Reading” posts that will provide links and brief excerpts/summaries of posts, articles and books useful to critics of the Men’s Rights Movement. They will all be permanently listed in my sidebar. I will add more useful links as I run across them.
I’ve also started adding a series of pages that offer information and links rebutting more specific claims typically made by those in the Men’s Rights movement. These will also be permanently listed in my sidebar under the heading “Anti-MRM Info and Resources.”
Here are some useful general critiques of the Men’s Rights Movement:
Kathryn Joyce: “Men’s Rights” Groups Have Become Frighteningly Effective”
These men’s rights activists, or MRAs, have long been written off by domestic-violence advocates as a bombastic and fringe group of angry white men, and for good reason. … But lately they’ve become far more polished and savvy about advancing their views.
A generally useful overview, with one caveat: Joyce considerably understates the amount of domestic violence that is perpetrated by women. See here for my thoughts on the subject.
Jezebel and Salon have pieces commenting on Joyce’s article. Amanda Marcotte offers some blunt opinions on the piece, as well as some reflections on her general experience dealing with MRAs.
Michael Flood: Backlash — Angry men’s movements (pdf)
In general, “men’s rights” is an anti-feminist and sometimes misogynist (woman-hating) backlash. Its analysis is wrong, its strategies are misdirected and sometimes harmful, and ultimately it does not serve men well. There are legitimate aspects to the issues it raises, but they will not be addressed when surrounded by its hostile and sexist agendas. … Feminism is a movement and set of ideas to which many men’s rights men show venomous and semi-hysterical hostility. … Men’s rights men in fact offer a bizarre caricature of feminism, a highly ignorant and selective misrepresentation.
A shorter, non-pdf version of the article.
Michael Flood: How the fathers’ rights movement undermines the protections available to victims of violence and protects the perpetrators of violence
While fathers’ rights groups often claim to speak on behalf of male victims of domestic violence, these efforts undermine the policies and services that would protect and gain justice for these same men.
Fathers’ rights advocates also: Make excuses for perpetrators; Act as direct advocates for perpetrators or alleged perpetrators of violence against women; Use abusive strategies themselves; Work to undermine and harass the services and institutions that work with the victims and survivors of violence.
More pieces by Flood and others on MRAs at XYonline.net.
Hugo Schwyzer: Masculinity and the failure of the Men’s Rights Movement
The problem with the men’s rights movement is that they confuse men’s unhappiness with oppression. They assume that if men were in control, they would be happy, because patriarchal oppressors ought to be happy. Therefore, if a man isn’t happy, he isn’t oppressing. Newsflash, folks: Just because you don’t know you’re privileged doesn’t mean you’re not. Just because there are aspects of your power and privilege that you find alienating and burdensome doesn’t mean that you are any less a beneficiary of an oppressive system!
Other useful pieces:
The use of violence by fathers’ rights activists: A compilation of news reports
Jezebel: Should Feminism Be “About Equality For Males?”
Jezebel: In Canada, Men’s Rights Groups Gain Power And A Blogger Supports “Femicide”
Alas, a blog: Men’s Rights Activists, Anti-Feminists, And Other Misogynists Comment On George Sodini
Amanda Hess: Can’t Feminists and Anti-Misandrists Just Get Along?
Amanda Marcotte and Alas, a blog on MRAs’ legitimate complaints.
Blogging Molly: The misguided, embarrassing war against feminism rages on
>Those are some great links David, thanks! This movement of self-pitying assholes we call the "Men's Rights Movement" is indeed dangerous. Interesting material. And damn, you have to spend a lot of time battling the trolls dont'cha?
>They sure don't seem to want the rhetorical high ground. Or perhaps they've convinced themselves that to attack attack attack, make facile comparisons, and never concede shit, is actually to have the rhetorical high ground.
>You need to consider, like feminism, the MRM isn't a single unified movement. There are those who are just hateful, like the dworkins, mcKinnon's, Valenti's, etc. Those are the ones that David here focus's solely on.As for the tactic's used, well, regardless of what is said, they will be deemed misogynists. My simply stating men need a gender minister in government as an egalitarian counterpart to the women's minister that exists in every western nation, has earned me the title misogynist.Just that one idea alone, that has nothing to do with how I feel about women, and more to do with the definition of equality, makes me hateful of women? Furthermore, If I choose to debate the topic politely, I am deemed a whiner and ignored as such, but if I am aggressive, I am deemed hateful and inspire debate, just to prove me wrong. I'll take the later, thanks, as that at least forces those who don't want me to "win", and those who take a stake, or interest, in the debate, to hear what needs to be said. Sometimes I actually manage to cause people to question themselves, sometimes I discover the objections are to my bringing it up, rather then the actual topic (which is itself a problem, but can then be noted) and sometimes I simply prove that objections to my opinions are based on misandry and a disrespect for men, and my actual arguments are entirely irrelevant.
Lol these people are only giving us ammunition if they had ans sense at all they would just ignore the topic completely… they are giving us publicity, and giving us evidence that what we say about them is true. If what we MRA’s where saying about them wasn’t true, they would not be trying to discredit us, but they would be trying to make sure, we had nothing to complain about, by helping us. A person who is not guilty won’t need to argue the case when he can easily prove it. Proof is in the putting, if they wanted to prove the opposite was true, all they need to do is advocate that men are people with needs too. this would contradict the claims made against them. It the smartest tactic and its the only tactic that will ever evade our wrath!!! until then We claim they lie, and they prove us correct by lying…
The “putting?” Is that near the juggler?
Oh, no, not your wrath. Anything but that!
Illiterate clown.
The jokes, they write themselves.
@hellkell
It’s difficult to extract meaning from our friend’s semi-literate babble, so I’m going to assume that the putting comment was a whimsical reference to his belief that all MRAs will some day become very successful at golf.
Ladies and gentlemen, the world’s douchiest facebook profile photo has come to prophesy his wrath!!!
My mind is blown that this dude is willing to associate his identity and those of his family’s with his goofy syllogistic screeds.
Unfortunately, People who claim to be feminist do not have enough historical education to understand what feminism really is… If they know who there founders where, and who the people that ran the multimillion dollar operations that have: blocked out male birth control research for decades, those who responsible for 63% of male domestic violence victims (the rest, accused or even made fun of only taking mercy on 1-8% of them) being refused shelter for them and their children, those responsible for perpetuating the lie that men dominate the work force when women clearly do (2012 statistics get up to date feminists women also make 8% more on average) and also out populate men; little do they know the people responsible for raising them to being absolute lies about men, responsible for ignoring Men’s needs, are the real wealthy feminist anti-male campaigns that they them selves fly they banner of. They do not realize that the monolithic version of feminism ghastly out sizes their miniscule idea of feminism. They have become so religiously involved, that like a Christian or Muslim, if you insult there belief systems name or the belief systems hierarchy, (feminism) you also insult then as a person, as well as all the good things they stand for. they Have come to believe that with out feminism that will not be able to support laws that are good for women… they are so side tracked by their belief system they have not realized that the big well funded champagnes do not consider how to achieve women’s rights and men’s rights together, but only women rights period and with the battle of the sex’s mentality to boot. no matter what you have in your head, you are deluding yourself if-you think you do not support these anti-male people, when you chat on their blogs and give them money. You chat on there blogs, your promote their ads, many of you even fund them. You may claim to not agree with the result of their actions, but that sure never stopped you from helping them do it while tuning a blind eye to the inequality caused by it. If your a feminist you have likely helped with all of this in some way, knowingly or unknowingly… By supporting pro-female bills/amendments without properly analyzing them in concern for another gender other then your own, for example… Or giving money to an organization that is reported to directly discriminate against men and paint men in a bad picture, or blame men for women’s problems. Opening and supporting female only shelters with out the same for male’s… Attending their protests , meetings and fundraisers,and not setting up your own non-gender biased ones… the list goes on, you make speak your mind on the internet and claim to be a good person.. but proof is in the putting, and the proof is: you feminists are only putting your time and money into a single gender… If you wish to combat these claims, then your cations should be to:
1. Criticize: male gender stereotypes, male shaming, mass male blaming, failure to take responsibility, anti-male jokes, anti-male bias in general, the victimization of men through violence, the victimization of men through verbal or mental abuse, forcing men into male gender roles, the denial of men’s needs, the denial of men to have emotions or the right to express them in their own way, the false representation of statistics to demonize men, the false representation of statistics to ignore men’s needs, the false representation of statistics to paint women as the only victims, criticize people who negate men’s suffering, and any other unfair gender bias you see.
2. Defend: men along side women, little boys forced into gender roles, Men who are 2 times more likely to be raped then women, men who are 3-4 times more likely to commit suicide, men who are between 40-50% of reported domestic violence victims, defend men who are 2-3 times more likely to suffer from general violence, teen boys pressured to conform to gender roles while seeking male maturity or peer acceptance, defend men and boys as much as you defend their opposite gender.
3. Promote: Anti-male bashing ads, Healthy male language, healthy perspectives of males, non-gender biased perspectives of males, male domestic violence shelters, pro-male/non-gender biased education programs, Promote male birth control,
Promote male homeless shelters since men are the majority of the homeless, take time to analyze and promote the needs of men alongside of those for women.
4. Use non-biased labels: There are many labels I will not be able to cover, do not assume the right to label just any man a creep, do not us the label “reverse gender discrimination” to imply women are the focus, do not use the false anti male term patriarchy when protesting female rights, and finally be an FRA. You can be an FRA , you can also be an MRA at the same time, these are labels for individuals, they are not grouping labels. An activist is “an individual” who supports “a cause.” A feminist is an individual who supports certain cause under the label of a monolithic association of groups that are mainly anti-male and all center around women.
7. Report: bigotry, discrimination hatred, rape, violence, domestic abuse, verbal or mental abuse, and injustice against men, as well as women.
6. Encourage: Both men and women to take responsibility by holding them equally accountable. Both to seek help, both to be who they want to be, both to live life with out regret, both to be aware of threats, both no to live in fear, both to be safe, both to be kind, both that their feeling matter, both that no one person is more important then they are, both not to be forced into or limited by the gender roles of others, both to empathize with others, both to accept their own faults, both to be humble, both to be strong, both to be independent, both to believe in themselves, both to have a good education, both to use the potential in their natural strengths, both to compensate for their natural weaknesses, encourage them both equally in everything you wish for any of your female or male children/adults.
there is more than can and should be done to prove you are the opposite of what is aid about you…
Feminist organizations say they want men to not hate them, but they do everything in their power to make men want to. If that was truly their goal, common sense should tell you, there actions and words would be different.
@ Thomas Allen: TL;DR
I have no pithy comment to make, I just don’t have the energy to slog through your wall o’ text. In a year-old post.
http://www.partyvibe.com/forums/attachments/drugs/5778d1302125632-cocaine-bear-i-fucking-love-cocaine-bear-i-fucking-love
Drugs are bad, man. At least wait until the rush wears off before posting comments on blogs.
@CassandraSays
lol actually your the clown making joke and never one making a single point.. You have exposed yourself by attacking my typing and accusing me of illiteracy. You have nothing intelligent to say, you only have mud to sling. congratulations you have accomplished making yourself look as cool as a high school bully.. lol the it is so ironic you called me a clown when your words are of exactly that nature…
If i where mildly dyslexic and had poor typing skills would every thing I say be invalid? What if English was me second language what then?You see this is exactly what you have implied, and you have exposed your own lack of intellect by doing so. Your ignorance is exposed… make a point or shut up… Clown…
tl;dr
So, is the double period meant to be a period or ellipses? The world may never know.
Your the clown-making joke exposing yourself! Congratulations!
On a serious note though, don’t try to engage us about feminism when it’s clear that you don’t know jack shit about it. Your goofball conspiracy theories won’t fly here.
If I could edit my typos I would, but I don’t see the option. I’m humble enough to recognize weakness in typing… that is why I never tried to be a secretary or editor…. Right now you for providing how sexist, ignorant and hateful you are by attacking me over and over. it is very clear you like to hurt men. You must hate men. I pity you. do you think attacking me make you look smart? It make you look like a a fool, and when i claim that people like you only have the interest of causing pain or spreading hate, here you are proving me right. spread more of your hate…. give me more proof… attack attack, be cruel, prove me right.
If I could edit my typos I would, but I don’t see the option. I’m humble enough to recognize weakness in typing… that is why I never tried to be a secretary or editor…. Right now you for proving how sexist, ignorant and hateful you are by attacking me over and over. It is very clear you like to hurt men, or just people. You must hate men, or you just a bad person. I pity you. Do you think attacking me makes you look smart? It makes you look like a fool, and when I claim that people like you only have the interest of causing pain or spreading hate, here you are proving me right. spread more of your hate…. give me more proof… attack attack, be cruel, prove me right.
When he says “exposing yourself” it sounds like things are about to get all kinky, and then you realize that he’s just babbling again.
Sorry to break it to you, my agitated friend, but this is really not that kind of website.
If I could edit my typos, I would, but I don’t see the option. I’m humble enough to recognize weakness in typing… that is why I never tried to be a secretary or editor…. Right now you are proving how sexist, ignorant and hateful you are by attacking me over and over. It is very clear you like to hurt men, or just people. You must hate men, or you just a bad person. I pity you. Do you think attacking me makes you look smart? It makes you look like a fool, and when I claim that people like you only have the interest of causing pain or spreading hate, here you are proving me right. spread more of your hate…. give me more proof… attack attack, be cruel, prove me right.
When he says “exposing yourself” it sounds like things are about to get all kinky, and then you realize that he’s just babbling again. < how cute, reminds me of when I was like 12 years and on the school bus, I once had that type of humor then…
Dude guilt doesn’t work that way.
Just because somebody you don’t like says something is filthy doesn’t mean that it must actually be clean.
I guess he found that next to last comment so fascinating that he had to post it 3 times? Which would be excusable if there was any actual content there, but unfortunately there is not.
Wait, aren’t us feminists supposed to be the ones who yell “SEXISM!” at every passing slight? That’s the stereotype, right? So what’s dudebro here doing accusing us of hating men just because we said he sounds stupid?
Lots of men don’t sound stupid, dudebro. Several of them even post on this site! The key is that they don’t use ellipses all the fucking time.
Well, and they don’t rant about ridiculous conspiracy theories focused on making their lives terrible, but the ellipses thing would be a good start.
Thomas, not to piss on your parade, but you do realise a lot of the regular commentators here are men? And that large numbers of commentators who are not men are in relationships with men?
If you want to find evidence of man-hating you are honestly not looking in the right place.
Also, you’re making the same arguments are every troll who has ever appeared on this blog.
Let me rebut your argument.
No we do not hate men and we do not like hurting men.
Any more questions?
I’d even be willing to tolerate the ellipses, but I’m still not sure what “..” is supposed to signify.