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I’ve been watching the Men’s Rights movement, such as it is, for some time, with a mixture of amusement, horror and disgust. It’s a movement that’s bad for everyone — for men, for women, for children, and probably even for my cat, though I haven’t yet quite worked out how. The best thing you can say about the Men’s Rights Movement is that it doesn’t, and hopefully never will, have anything near the impact on the world that feminism has had over the years. And this blog, in its own little way, hopes to help keep that way.
So in this blog I hope to take on the assorted myths promulgated by the Men’s Rights Movement, to dismantle their rickety logic and their dubious statistics. I’ll round up assorted examples of misogyny, mendacity and just plain stupidity from MRA’s online and off. And I’ll highlight some of the best anti-MRA arguments I can find.
As for the boobz in the title, I do not refer to those rounded lumps of flesh and fat on the chests of women and some men. I refer to the classic definition of boob as “a stupid or foolish person; a dolt.” Too many MRA’s, alas, fit this definition to a T.
Oh, and the Z on the end of “boobz?” Someone else already took the “manboobs” URL. So I improvised. I’m crafty.
So you started 10 years ago, ey? Well, Futrelle, I must say, it appears that you’re wrong.
The Men’s Rights Movement is gaining traction.
Gen Zers, the youngest generation, are the most anti-feminist.
At least half (50%) of Gen Z men and 1/4 (23%) of Gen Z women are anti-feminist, as that is the number that believe feminism has gone too far. However, there are still more to be counted.
Gen Zers are many a MRA, though there does also appear to be an abundance of Gen Z feminists.
I myself am a Gen Z MRA, and I am only anti-feminist against the bad feminists. Too bad there’s a bit too much of them.
youth-fear-and-hope-2020-07-v2final.pdf
Welcome to the future, Futrelle. How much you enjoy it is dependent on how much you actually believe in equality.
@Acid Kritana
You may notice that another commenter said this 10 years ago. The Men’s Rights “Movement” has supposedly been growing since then, but is in the same place. If anything, it’s assimilated into the alt right that it helped create.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Antifeminism#Feminism_was_good.2C_is_bad
That link cracks me up:
“file:///C:/Users/[id number redacted, just in case]/OneDrive%20-%20Spokane%20Public%20Schools/Documents/Keep/PDFs/PDFs%20Organized/All%20Documents/youth-fear-and-hope-2020-07-v2final.pdf”
Our MRA troll cannot be much older than 18 if he (almost certainly a he) is still in “Spokane Public Schools”. Also, “file:///” links don’t link to anything. They are for files local only to the computer which follows them. I found this out when I was ten. Also also,
you are ill-advised to put something personally identifiable, like your ID number for your school district, onto a public website.
@Naglfar
Yes, I can read. I saw the other comments.
Sorry, report is called “YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE TIME OF COVID-19” by HOPE Not Hate.
What are you trying to prove other than you can make a claim about what MRAs believe? I believe that feminism has NEVER been about equality.
@Mabret the Virile Maiden
Oops, wrong link.
As I stated above, the thing is called “YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE TIME OF COVID-19” by HOPE Not Hate.
So, @David Futrelle, feel free to delete that link (and just the link).
Do you know what an “MRA troll” is? It’s a person who pretends to be an MRA just to make us out to be worse. That, I am not. An MRA, I am.
And yes, I am a he.
And you never know my age. I COULD be 18. I go to a high school, for crying out loud. And it’s not like my age matters. You’re not having sex with me, now are you?
I didn’t mean that link, so than you for redacting it.
@Acid Kritana
Then why did you say you only opposed the “bad feminists”? What makes someone a good or bad feminist to you?
Also, you clearly don’t know much about feminism then.
I don’t know how you use that term elsewhere, but here it means an MRA who is also a troll. You seem to be setting up a No True Scotsman of sorts.
I’m lesbian, so you couldn’t pay me to have sex with you, even if you weren’t a nasty misogynist. I just find it interesting to note that you’re the second MRA schoolboy to darken our doors in recent times.
Is this troll the 11 year old again or one of his friends? they are very sensitive about their age and posting on random threads from a decade ago before they were probably born. or at least potty trained.
Also a generation z person here. 22 and very much a feminist and this kid is just a fucking dumbass and he’s probably the junior high kid again. you can tell by the oh so edgy wolf eye he’s got going that all junior high kids seem to like for some reason. Go back to your zoom class kid.
@Lainy
I don’t think they’re the same person as the last one, because the last one was from New York while this one seems to be from Spokane, WA based on the URL he posted. That said, it does somewhat alarm me that there are so many young people getting sucked into the ideology.
On the plus side, that may mean they’re still reachable and it’s not too late.
Wolf eye? Looks like a Siamese cat’s to me.
@Naglfar
I should clarify that, actually. I’ll just use an example. My mom is a feminist. But she never raised me, my brother, or my sister as feminists. Instead, she let us develop our own opinions.
However, she did show us a video, when we were young. In it, was a social experiment. The man was being abused by the woman, until the man defended himself. Everyone was happy and laughing at the woman horribly abusing the man, but when he defended himself, people got sad, mad, and even started to attack him.
My mom pointed out how this was wrong and told us that men could defend themselves on the first hit, and if my brother (at the time, I was still a girl) ever had to defend himself, she would stand by him.
I suppose you could say my mom started my MRA career! Even if it was on accident. However, my mom, who is a feminist, supports Men’s Rights and giving men equal rights. She’s even annoyed at the misandristic feminists!
That is what I call a “good feminist.” Feminists who support Men’s Rights, or at least portions of equality for men and boys. I have met a multitude of good feminists, and I support them fully. I’m even friends with some.
I am friends with some feminists at my school, and even though we don’t agree on everything, we’re still friends. There was one nonbinary feminist friend I had who unfortunately started to ignore me after a debate, sadly. The others, however, have stuck with me.
I know enough about feminism to understand that many feminists believe that only men can rape and men can’t really be raped (despite compelling evidence otherwise), that women aren’t abusive (despite being the majority of abusers), that it’s somehow not misandry when androcide happens, that “gay men aren’t oppressed” (despite the fact that gay men are 5 times more likely to become a victim of a hate crime, and more), that trans men don’t really face hate (though transmisandry is actually quite common), and more.
I know enough that when I told a feminist I had been sexually assaulted, he insinuated that I was a rapist and told me men who claim are “suspicious.”
I know enough to understand that “Kill all men” is hate speech and very Nazi-reminiscent.
I know enough to understand that, as a biracial person (White, Mexican, Native American, Asian), feminists and pro-feminists tend to be obsessed with demonizing white people for only being as bad as everyone else throughout history (and just being more successful in many cases due to things such as the Mattachine gun).
I know enough to understand that men have it worse, but feminists would rather cling onto claims of “equality” while just wanting special privileges for women, such as being much less likely to get cancer and to die from cancer, but getting much more funding than men’s cancer.
I know enough to understand feminism very well.
Good to know what you people use it for. That certainly clears things up.
@Mabret the Virile Maiden
Ew. Why would I want to have sex with you? I’m gay.
Maybe there’s not so many coming over yet because most MRAs don’t actually care enough about this website to come over? However, you may expect a rise in “schoolboy” and schoolgirl MRAs coming over, as long as they find out this website exists.
@Lainy
The “11 year old again”? Good to know people are gathering together to fight against misandry at a younger age. That reminds me, when I was in elementary school, I went up to a girl who was saying that boys could only hit a girl back on the third hit, and I told her boys could hit back on the first time (obviously, since I transitioned at 14, or started my transition then, I was still a girl at this time), and she shut up about it. Good to know it’s increasing, though.
I’m not too sensitive about my age, but I don’t see why you care much about it. Just because I was popped out of the womb later than you doesn’t mean I’m automatically dumber. God, no wonder “Ok Boomer” is a thing.
And who cares what decade this is from? I’m not posting on every article (there’s too many for that), so going to the first isn’t that bad. You could go to the first article on my website (Domestic Abuse/Violence Factsheet #1 – Acid Men’s Rights (wordpress.com) or domestic-abuse-violence-factsheet-1-2.pdf (wordpress.com)), and I wouldn’t care WHEN you came.
@Lainy
Ok feminist.
I don’t even know who you’re talking about lol.
But just to clear things up, I’m a Junior.
Not an 11 year old, I’m afraid.
“Edgy eye wolf”? Pfft. I only used it because I like it. If you don’t, I don’t care. I’m going to be drawing a new picture for my wordpress website avatar soon, though, so I suppose you’re just gonna have to wait until then, aren’t you?
And from what I can tell, most kids nowadays aren’t “edgy.” What generation you from?
Oh right, the older end of Gen Z. Too bad you don’t know how teenagers actually are.
We don’t even use Zoom lol.
@Naglfar
Yes, we’re not the same person. I don’t even know which one you guys are talking about. Good to know we’re on opposite sides of the US.
Like it alarms older people that so many young people are LGBT?
Like it alarms older people that Gen Z has more than twice the amount of atheists as older generations do?
Like it alarms a lot of people that Gen Z are the most racially diverse?
Seriously, grow up.
Sorry that we don’t want men to die horribly because of a stupid draft or want men to be arrested for being abused and calling the cops on the abuse.
Missed one.
@Surplus to Requirements
Misandry ain’t gonna reach us.
I honestly don’t care what y’all think of my avatar. If it really bothers you that much, you can be rest assured that I’ll be drawing a new image soon. Already planned it, so you can relax.
A standard anti-feminist has appeared. They arrived and made baseless accusations against feminists based on a few bad experiences. Then they pretended people here have to take their accusations seriously instead of backing their disparaging characterizations up. It’s the opposite of advocacy.
@Acid Kritana
Hi, I’m a feminist and I also think that men and women deserve equality, and I do care about men. However, I know that the so-called men’s rights movement doesn’t actually care about improving things for men, and just hates women and feminists, so I oppose that movement.
Interesting, I know a lot of feminists and none of them think any of that. You must be hanging out with some strange feminists.
No, I have nothing against any of those aspects of Gen Z. I am alarmed that people are joining a far right hate movement. Unless you think being LGBT is the same as joining a hate group, there is no comparison.
You first, kid.
@Acid,
kid, your preconceptions are showing. Many of the regulars here, possibly most, are LGBTQ; many of us are atheists; many of us are not white; a lot of us are not USAnian (you think it’s normal to have the draft?). Regulars here have never laughed at rape, including the rape of men. Many of us are trans; but you just go ahead and assume a feminist site condones the oppression of trans people. Your preconceptions are all over the place!
Many of us are cis men and yet somehow manage not to be so self-centred as to feel scared of/’attacked’ by feminism (a hint: if a certain behaviour is criticised and it happens not to be something you habitually do, guess what – that critique is not all about you)
On another note, I don’t suppose anyone has any news of Scildfreja? Sorely missed! 🙁
@Naglfar
Hi, I’m a Men’s Rights Activist and I think men and women deserve equality, and I do care about women. I just choose to focus more on men and boys.
That’s where the similarities end, I guess. I would like to point out, that you have a bit of a wrong perception about MRAs. Many MRAs oppose (the bad parts of) feminism, and feminism =/= women. Many MRAs love women! Even though I might never romantically love women, I do love women.
I oppose the bad part(s) of feminism. If you don’t align with the bad parts, then you have nothing to worry about, do you?
I hang out with random feminists. Some of them are wonderful people. Most of them are horrible. But I do like the good feminists.
Good? I never said that YOU were against those aspects. Just a comparison of the other parts and older generations.
If you really think the Men’s Rights Movement is a “far right hate movement,” I’ll need you to take a moment and think. Who do you often hear this from? And now think of a different subject: the fact that most MRAs are not Republicans, nor do they exist on the right. I recall hearing an article titled something like, “Even MRAs hate/don’t like Trump.”
Most MRAs do not like the right. Mainly because the right also practices misandry, but in a similar/different way. They often want men to be sacrificial lambs. Thus, we can never be the same, or even really connected, until the right finally grows up.
You claim that nearly every MRA, if not all, are all homophobic pigs, and yet you whine about me generalizing.
There is a draft. It may not be in use right this second, but men (and male-born people) are required to sign up for it, AKA “selective service.”
Marc Angelucci literally almost got the draft either banned or also used for women, until he got murdered by a psychotic ex-MRA. The judge who ruled that the male-only draft is discriminatory? A latina woman, if I remember correctly.
We have had many other successes, many of them due to Marc Angelucci. I’ll miss him.
We have also had many successes due to women and female MRAs.
Then tell me why feminists so often act like women can’t abuse and all men (mainly the abused in this case) are abusers? If you guys don’t believe in that, and believe in actual equality when it comes to domestic abuse, I will commend you for that.
@opposablethumbs
Like I said to @Naglfar, I did not say that YOU people are the ones thinking like this. It was just a comparison. Perhaps I should clarify that next time.
And I am a trans guy (FtM), who is attracted to dudes. Though I’d probably be a 5 or a 5.5 on the scale. So a little of the B, I suppose? And I’m grayromantic.
I also know of MRAs who are: gay males; maybe one lesbian; a bi woman; bi man; several trans women; several trans men; and more.
See, you’re not the only ones who are LGBT.
And I’m a gnostic atheist. Many other MRAs are atheist. Many other MRAs are also not atheist, but almost every single nonatheist MRA I’ve met is pretty much cool with atheists.
Neither am I. I’m White, Mexican, Native American, and Asian. I have no idea if I’m black or anything like that, but there’s the possibility.
Many other MRAs are also nonwhite.
American, you mean?
Lol, I’ve never heard the term “USAnian” used before. Though I can understand, since America is technically a continent.
No, I don’t think the draft is normal. Less than a third of all countries have a draft. Of those that do, only a few include women, and even then, it’s much nicer to the women.
Then that’s good!
See, I’m not attacking YOU then, now am I?
I can see that.
Many MRAs I’ve met, including one nonbinary one, are trans. Most MRAs, or at least a vast majority, are nontrans, but that’s mainly because the population in general is vastly nontrans.
I never said it did.
Unless if you want to be called a TERF?
As I have stated, I should clarify next time that I didn’t mean y’all specifically.
God, I HATE the word “cis.” It’s so useless and just confuses people. That’s why I use the word “nontrans.” …God, I don’t even believe, and I’m already praying.
Now, onto what you said.
I don’t care how many of you are what. I care how many of you are who. Basically, I don’t care if you are a nontrans man or a lesbian, I care what you fight for. What you believe in. You can tell me what you are, but that won’t matter as long as we are still against the words of the other.
And I don’t feel “scared of/’attacked’ by feminism.” I just don’t agree with it, or at least the majority. If you guys, as a group, are actually okay with men having equal rights (such as equal rights as the abused or no more Male Genital Mutilation/MGM), then I’m perfectly fine with you!
And I don’t know why you’re brining up the “behavior” crap. I couldn’t care less what you think I’m doing. Doesn’t mean I can’t defend myself, just means that I honestly don’t care.
It’s not gonna leave me sleepless, for instance.
I mean, I don’t make jokes about rape, mainly because I do other forms of dark humor, but that doesn’t mean I’m doing it for you or anything. I don’t want your cookies. I don’t want your pity. I don’t want your praise.
I just want y’all to understand that, if you guys are truly for equality, then I’m not the bad guy.
Just understand that I choose to focus on men and boys, and call myself an MRA, because I AM for equality, I just don’t see enough being done for men and boys.
@ acid
Ah so your just a dick who wants to troll and get some attention. Got it. Good job. Run along back to highschool classes now
@Acid Kritana
Many misogynists claim to love women.
That’s odd.
Still making a false analogy.
I’ve been in feminist circles much more than you have and I’ve never heard anyone say that. Either you are hanging out with some highly unusual individuals or you’re making shit up.
Then maybe you shouldn’t have come in with that pretense.
And you don’t think it sounds a bit awkward? Given that you’re a high school junior I’d guess you’re about 17. The word “cis” has been in academic use longer than you’ve been alive. It sounds a lot less clunky.
Out of curiosity, are you a transmedicalist?
I would agree with those statements, but that’s because I’m a feminist. MRAs do not do anything that helps abused men, instead they try to shut down shelters for abused men. They don’t do anything about circumcision other than hijack conversations about FGM.
I’m going to be blunt here. If you truly care about men and boys and want to make life better for that half of the population, don’t involve yourself with MRAs. They do not help men and boys, and make it harder for legitimate actors to help men and boys. Learn about feminism, maybe peruse the blog archives.
@Naglfar
Acid likes to play oppression olympics apparently but then pretend he doesn’t care while writing like essay longs paragraphs for each person that talks to them.
You know how we talked about the right thinking that the left doesn’t own guns because they just revolve around their own memes and think their realty. I feel like that’s a lot of Acid here, he’s been told this is what all feminist think of them, maybe another teenager said something stupid to him so now he just expects that of ever feminist he comes in contact with.
@Lainy
Yes, definitely that’s whats happening here.
@Naglfar
I’m wondering if he was expecting us to start calling him “she” and all sorts of horrible things to he could just validate all the things he thinks he will get, and he’s not getting them here so he has the be the most oppressed person in the world and all the horrible things happen to and no one else could possibly have it as bad or worse then he has it. If this boy is even remotely older then 16 I will be surprised.
@Lainy
It’s possible he expected that, maybe he thinks most feminists are TERFs.
@naglfar
That would be really sad indeed. There are to many terfs that want to hurt trans people for no reason. it really makes me angry that they will do that and hurt another person just because they don’t want to use to correct pronouns. no one deserves that disrespect, even if their being a jerk like our boy here.
@Lainy
So I respond back, explaining what I have said, and you call me a dick.
Thanks a lot.
I can see that you are not a person worth conversing with.
@Naglfar
I could also point out that many misandrists claim to love men, but neither statement adds to the conversation, does it?
Well, I do.
And I was just comparing. Comparing is different than claiming that you believe what they believe; it is just making out similarities.
I’m not making anything up. This is literally what the majority of feminists I have met have said or been like.
This one is a bit confusing. I say that I am not attacking you, and you claim that I am basically making a false claim.
Nontrans is a little bit longer, but it confuses people much less. I know that it has existed for some time, longer than my existence, and I know that it is a root word meaning the opposite of trans, but I just really find it useless.
Pfft. What the hell even is a “transmedicalist”?
I agree with the statements because I believe in equality. It does not predate what I am going to identify as.
When? What PROOF do you have? Last time I checked, it was FEMINISTS who are the ones trying to shut them down.
“Don’t do anything.” What a lie. We have literally marched, campaigned, and more, though mainly marching, in order to stop MGM. Sometimes, we might compare FGM, but the main focus is on MGM.
Always a great start.
/s
Why not?
Since when?
Why would I do that?