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WTF is a MGTOW? A Glossary

On this blog, MRA does not mean Magnetic Resonance Angiography

For newcomers to this blog, here’s a handy guide to some of the strange acronyms and lingo you’ll encounter here and in the “manosphere” in general. (For a definition of that term, see below.) I will update this entry periodically as needed.

First, the acronyms you’ll see most often here:

MRA: Men’s Rights Activist
MRM: Men’s Rights Movement

MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way MGHOW: Man Going His Own Way.

Ok, so what do those terms mean?

MRM: The Men’s Rights Movement: A loosely defined, but largely retrograde, collection of activists and internet talkers who fight for what they see as “men’s rights.” Unlike the original Men’s Movement, which was inspired by and heavily influenced by feminism, the self-described Men’s Rights Movement is largely a reactionary movement; with few exceptions, Men’s Rights Activists (or MRAs) are pretty rabidly antifeminist, and many are frankly and sometimes proudly misogynistic. Those who oppose the MRM are generally not against men’s rights per se; they are opposed to those who’ve turned those two words into a synonym for some pretty backwards notions.

MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way: As the name suggests, MGTOW is a lot like lesbian separatism, but for straight dudes. MGTOW often talk vaguely about seeking “independence” from western and/or consumer culture, and a few MGTOW try to live that sort of zen existence. But most of those who embrace the term have a deep hostility towards and/or profound distrust of feminists and women in general. Many MGTOW refuse to date “western women” and some try to avoid women altogether.  I think the Man Going His Own Way acronym MGHOW adds another layer of confusion to an already awkward acronym, so I use MGTOWer instead.

Some other terms and acronyms you’ll run across here:

Anglosphere: Countries in which English is the primary language, or, more narrowly, those countries that used to be British colonies. They are full of evil Western Women (see below).

Incel: Involuntarily Celibate. A term, and identity, adopted by some dateless guys (as well as some women, but it’s the men we’ll focus on here). While there is nothing shameful about being dateless, or a virgin, or having a really long dry spell sexually — most of us have been there at some point — the term “involuntarily celibate” seems to suggest that the world owes incels sex, and that women who turn down incel men for dates or sex are somehow oppressing them. For those (male, straight) incels who are genuinely socially awkward or phobic, this can be a self-defeating stance that can lead to bitterness towards women. And often does.

Mangina: Derogatory term used by MRAs, MGTOW, etc. to describe guys who disagree with them — e.g., me. You can figure out the various connotations of this term yourself.

The Manosphere: The loose collection of blogs, message boards, and other sites run by and/or read by MRAs, MGTOW, and assorted friendly Pick-up Artists. The primary source of material for this blog.

NAWALT: Not All Women Are Like That. Dudes in the manosphere make so many ridiculous and untrue generalizations about women that they’ve come up with their own little acronym to describe the most common reaction to their nonsense: “not all women are like that.” Remarkably, many seem to think that making a reference to NAWALT is actually some sort of clever rebuttal of their critics.

PUA: Pick-up Artist. PUAs are obsessed with mastering what they see as the ultimate set of techniques and attitudes — known as “Game” — that will enable them to quickly seduce almost any woman they want. There is a vast literature on “game” online, though PUA (insofar as it is not complete bullshit) is at its essence simply a male version of the age-old ploy of “playing hard to get.”

Western Women: Also known as WW. Evil harpies, at least according to many in the manosphere. Contrasted with “foreign women,” a term that (in the manosphere, at least) sometimes refers to all women outside the Anglosphere, but often refers to a subset of these women from poor and/or Eastern countries, mostly Asian, who are regarded as more pliable and thus more desirable to haters of “Ameriskanks” and other WW.

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  1. Mangina?

    Oh wait, I get it! A clever portmanteau of the words ‘man’ and ‘vagina’. Because women have vaginas, you see, not men. But here it’s applied to a man to suggest he’s an honourary female or otherwise lacking in man parts!

    Wow, good one, MRAers. I can’t believe this word hasn’t been thought of before now and that it isn’t used in every single post you make, with its powers of absolute pwnage over feminist-whipped pussies. You should probably start doing so right away, as you will come across as a comedic genius. And not remotely 12 years old.

  2. Right, comet, it’s a juvenile insult, not at all like the feminist-created comedic gems like ‘douchecanoe’, ‘flounce’ and ‘mansplaining’, which could have been penned by Shakespeare himself.

    But hey, if you think you can do better, maybe you’ve got a suggestion. What would you call a hysterical little lapdog who spends his life humping the leg of any nearby woman and growling impotently at men who approach?

  3. What would you call a hysterical little lapdog who spends his life humping the leg of any nearby woman and growling impotently at men who approach?

    MRALieutenant

  4. cute, but doesn’t fit.

  5. Oh Pam, that was perfection.

  6. blockquotecute, but doesn’t fit.

    You’re right, you’d have to insert “hawt” beside “woman” for it to be more appropriate.

  7. Oooops, messed up the closing tag on that one. Wish there was a Preview function here.

  8. Oh Pam, that was perfection.

    Yeah, I snickered a little when it was the first thing that came to mind.

  9. “Right, comet, it’s a juvenile insult, not at all like the feminist-created comedic gems like ‘douchecanoe’, ‘flounce’ and ‘mansplaining’, which could have been penned by Shakespeare himself.”

    Douchecanoe? That’s a new one on me. You’re assuming that someone needs to identify as feminist/read feminist sites in order to find MRAs moronic.

    “But hey, if you think you can do better, maybe you’ve got a suggestion.”

    IOW, ‘I know you are, so what am I?’

  10. Oh, and ‘flounce’? As in, storm off/lose temper in an exaggerated manner? Pretty sure that one’s in the dictionary, guy…

  11. It’s all nice and well that you mock and critize the insane and rabid mysoginy of the so-called MRA’s. There deluded reactionary bullshit nauseating.

    But I think you are being a hypocrite in ignoring the greatest threat to the mainstream acceptance of socially progressive ideas, and a society without the pathetic and counterproductive gender wars.
    Because there is just as much insanity and bigotry from people who call themselves feminists.

    What about the likes of Melissa Farley, Sheile Jeffries, Julie Bindel etc ?
    Their sex-worker bashing, transphobia and general sex-phobia and male bashing are any more noble or excusable than what the MRA’s do. And a lot more harmful because they give feminism a bad name, and actually have positions of influence.

    When I’m in a paranoid mood, I sometimes wonder if those radfems are actually conservative agents trying to destroy feminism from within.

  12. you guys so crazayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! (not actual crazy)

  13. I disagree with the judgement on western women – all women everywhere suck.

  14. I think you need to add TFL = True Forced Loneliness, guys that believes there is a conspiracy that prevent them finding a girlfriend.

  15. Men going there own way?!?!

    LOL!!!!

    How soon can we count on that?

    I want a precise date and time.

  16. March 2010. That was my precise date and time Hindu. After that I just swore off women. I was depressed, hurt, bitter, angry and sad from the ten trillion rejections and excuses of why I could never get a date, a girlfriend, nothing.

    Since then, my work performance has improved. I got a promotion (first in over nine years), my work improved, I started rediscovering my hobbies of old, and I feel okay without medication, without counseling, without empathy, shaming, or maning up so to speak. I actually enjoy the comapnay of women, and have become friends with a few. Platonic. It’s cool.

    John Lennon said once “Oh the guy I offended by my comments about my stance on Christianity? He wants a sincere apology? He can have it. I’m sorry I offended you. I am sorry if it hurt you. My comments were taken and printed wrong. I apologize, if you’re that hurt and you really mean it. Sure. You can have it ya know.”

    Just like that. I got a lot of traveling to do now. Fun things I want to try. I have not blamed women since 2010. My life got better.

    The time was at 4:20 on March 10 to be precise Hindu! You guys are awesome. Later!

  17. You omitted Blue Piller – men who have swallowed the Feminist line so thoroughly they defend their masters. Adopted from the movie “The Matrix”.

  18. Never saw that flick. Saw Keanu Reeves in that band he was in “Dogstar” or something like that in San Jose back in the 1990’s. Swallowing feminist logic? No. I am a huge anti-feminist. I just got tired of feeling sad. In March 2010. I had enough of women. I don’t hate or dislike them, but really I don’t want anything to do with them anymore when it comes to most things. I have so much that I like, and enjoy. I make a good living. I am in my forties with no kids. No x-wife or girlfriends. So much volunteering, hobbies, rebuilding a vintage scooter. I am going to visit the UK next year. When I put “women, dating, relationships” out of my life, instead of being all butt-hurt about it. My life got better. The few female friends I have are just that. Friends.

    Have a great day!

  19. You can’t be anti-feminist and have women friends. It’s impossible to be a friend to someone you don’t respect– and if you’re anti-feminist, you can’t respect women.

    Feminism is merely the belief in equality between women and men (and all genders). You can’t respect someone you don’t feel is equal to you; ergo, you can’t be anti-feminist and have women friends.

  20. Please dear friend, re-read my post. I said I was anti-fimenist, not anti-woman. There is a difference.

    I have never seen a feminist today behave “equally” to man they know nothing about. Please follow your own tennants before you attack mine. :-) Feminism today is women are innocent victims, and men are evil. Feminism used to be about equality, now it isn’t.

    If I cannot have woman friends because I am anti-feminist by your standard, I really feel sorry for you. Hope you get over it, and learn that people are people.

  21. To MorgainePen,

    “Feminism is merely the belief in equality between women and men (and all genders).”

    If this is indeed true why are so many different types of feminism in the world today? I ask this because if feminism is as you say a simple belief in the equality between the sexes then it would seem to me that there would be only one type of feminism not many types which is what we find to be the case today. Furthermore if the fact that this isn’t just one type of feminism leads me to conclude that there must be other constituting beliefs that fall under the rubric of feminism it is just a logical deduction.

    Thank you for reading

  22. I saw Susan Faludi speak in the early 1990’s at my undergraduate in Vermont. I was the only “male” in the audience and she pointed that out, I did not mind that. She was intelligent, and I honestly believe that she did bring up some pointed, solid issues at that time.

    What bothered me were my fellow students who were all women with their take-back-the-night rallies, their activism, their anti-porn stances, their shrill angry voices…….

    They all dated dullards, guys who did date rape, guys who did hit, guys that were abusive, guys who were porn addicts, guys who only could think: sex, sports, beer.

    It took me years to realize that a good portion of these women used “feminism” as a guize to cloak themselves in “victim” mentality when THEY made poor decisions. They went for these guys because they made them “feel” good. When they were hurt by these types of guys I would be the guy who would have to listen for hours about how “horrible” this guy was. Would these women date me?????? No, no…I was always too nice. Doesn’t matter anymore.

    A sensitive guy like myself in “those days” was always sitting in my dorm room alone because I wasn’t exciting like these guys these women supposedly denounced.

    Hypocrites I guess you could say. Like many Christians, and multi-millionaires who claim to have some sort of “brotherhood” or commonality with the poor.

    It was a long time ago. I just feel really great lately.

    People are people. Some good, some bad.

    Catch you all later!

  23. Oh Jason, Jason. You really should have tried turning this around before you posted this. Let’s play:

    It doesn’t take long to realize that a good portion of MRA’s and MGTOW’s use their “movement” as a guise to cloak themselves in “victim” mentality when THEY made poor decisions. They went for shallow and vacuous women because they made them “feel” good. When they are hurt by these women, they rage against half of humanity. Would they date those nice girls who spent years sitting alone in the dorm room wanting a date? Girls who didn’t have perfect asses, perhaps, but who would treat them with kindness and respect. Perhaps overweight girls, girls with bad skin and buck teeth, sure, but if those men cared a little less about their own “feelings” they could have had good relationships with those types of girls — as opposed to being so-called “sensitive” guys who only want to date girls who are beautiful, yet call them shallow bitches for dating handsome jerks; “sensitive” guys who are always found hanging around emotionally vulnerable women until it becomes painfully obvious that their “sensitivity” won’t get them into a woman’s pants even on the worst of her days; “sensitive” guys who wish women would stop caring so much about feeling good themselves and instead concentrate on making “sensitive guys” feel good. And of course, guys who argue that only a woman who has never had a bad relationship is a credible feminist — despite the fact that a good chunk of feminism is a response to women (still) being culturally indoctrinated from childhood to tolerate a shit-ton of bad behavior from men.

  24. You lost me. I really don’t know what you mean by “turning this around” I was not laying blame, asking, or expecting or demanding sympathy.

    I just got tired of armchair feminism, and I just quit caring about looking or wanting a relationship. It’s a wash, you know. After I quit fretting about women, dating, love, or whatever…..I actually now have a few real female friends who are just that. My life is okay.

    My life got better. It really did, and continues to. I was not looking for a challenge or discussion. I just responded to a comment from Hindu wanting to know exactly what time and date I went my own way, and I just answered honestly.

    Please have a great day!

    Peace.

  25. Jason: I really don’t care what choices you’ve made in your own life, whether or not you want a relationship, whether you are happy in celibacy, whether you just want to hook up, etc. I’ve no dog in this matter: as long as you don’t cause damage to anyone else, I don’t care how you live. That’s your business.

    It’s when you argue shit like “feminism is just an excuse for women making poor relationship choices”, or “those girls I was interested in just wanted relationships to make them feel good, instead of treating relationships as a means to reward ME for being a good person”, or “only women who have never had a bad relationship are credible as feminists” — that’s what I take issue with. I don’t know what “sensitivity” means to you, Jason, but criticizing women for wanting to feel good — with the implication that women should instead exist solely for making deserving men feel good — denies women agency and is thus a textbook example of objectification. And hypocrisy, too, since your logic can also be applied that the “Men’s Rights Movement” is merely an excuse for men who have made poor relationship choices. Such positions are subject to criticism regardless of how “honest” it is on your part to hold them.

  26. What is the men’s rights movement? I was looking for what MGTOW menat and was directed to this page. I had no idea such a movement existed, until I found this page and frankly would not join such a movement. Why would I needa “movement” to speak for me? I can speak for myself.

    I think you need to take it easy. I responded to a comment by a poster named “Hindu” and I got all this. If you look at my comment it wasn’t inflamatory or upsetting.

    Have a good day!

    Peace.

  27. Jason: Please don’t worry about my emotions, of all things. Telling someone to “take it easy” is merely a way to dismiss what they say without addressing the substance, and quite frankly, it’s rude.

    Furthermore, the fact that you responded to a comment by “Hindu” doesn’t change the meaning of your comment, nor the fact that in this public medium, anyone besides Hindu is free to talk about it.

    Finally, the parts of your comment that I specifically addressed — again, let’s be clear, not your personal choices, but the parts of your comment I specifically talked about — isn’t any more inflammatory or upsetting than mud on a rainy day. It’s still shit, though, for reasons that I stated.

  28. If this is indeed true why are so many different types of feminism in the world today?

    Putting aside regional differences that necessitate differences in approach, and speaking bluntly, because a number of the most prominent feminists are rich, straight, cis, white with neurotypical brains and able bodies that forget how much things suck for people who are missing one of those categories. But there are also philosophical differences about the nature of that equality, and what an equal society would ultimately look like. But the primary reason is that some rich, middle class, white, straight, cis, able-bodied, neurotypical women forgot about everyone else and decided feminism was over because they were mostly fine. Also because the precise approach taken by feminists in a given region will need to be different.

  29. Jason: Chill dude… you came to talk about going your own way, and people responded. That’s what you wanted right?

    Unless, of course, you figured this was a way to get some digs in at the feminists who ruined your life and drove you into going your own way, and the push back is somehow out of line.

    But hey, if going your own way means no one can respond to you, that you are somehow immune to external criticism… then go.

  30. David,

    something bugs me about your definition of incel. You say that there are “a few female incels”, and that did not fit my experience. So I took a look at the first 60 posts in the Introduction part of an incel forum, and the first 50 of the closest German equivalent. 15 of the 60 (25%) were by women, and 21 of the 50 on the German board (although 3 were by women not personally affected, so it’s 18/47 = 38%). Surveys on forums seem to result in generally similar numbers. While incel is a condition primarily affecting men, there are many women as well; and they are not suffering less. Quite a few are survivors of rape or childhood abuse, or for other reasons have difficulty trusting men. Others are less conventionally attractive and have not found their niche, and there are many other types. One thing that I noticed while doing that research was how many women said something about feeling all alone with their problem (men did too, but it seemed to be less often). It’s hard having to live each day with the knowledge that you are deficient and will not have what is completely normal to everyone else, it’s even harsher to live with the thought that your deficiencies are unique.

    I’m ok with you blaming the incels for their being incel. But please don’t say that female incels are only “a few”. At least relative to the population of incels they represent a good proportion, and their experiences and suffering is real. They are not the statistical aberration of a statistical aberration.

    (I apologize for concern trolling, but I really am concerned.)

  31. How about “Feminazi”. That’s always one of my favourites

  32. “lawyercunt” is a favourite among the PUAs. I suspect this sums up everything they find abhorrent in a woman: Someone who is educated, ambitious, intelligent, assertive, and probably earns more money than they do. Of course, everyone (in the seventeenth century, at least) knows higher education shrivels the delicate female brain and induces hysteria and infertility.

  33. From Will Cuppy – “‘Hysteria’ comes from the Greek for ‘womb’. They believed the womb was unattached, and moved around and tickled women, and made them hysterical. Men, not having wombs, could not be hysterical. When a man threw himself on the floor and kicked and screamed, he was showing character.”

  34. I thought the “Manosphere” was the Domain of The Master and Torgo…?

  35. ION says: “Right, comet, it’s a juvenile insult, not at all like the feminist-created comedic gems like ‘douchecanoe’, ‘flounce’ and ‘mansplaining’, which could have been penned by Shakespeare himself.”

    Comet replied: “Douchecanoe? That’s a new one on me. You’re assuming that someone needs to identify as feminist/read feminist sites in order to find MRAs moronic.”

    That’s one way to totally avoid answering the question Comet! I certainly don’t think ION is saying that someone needs to identify as feminist/read feminist sites in order to find MRAs moronic – does anyone think that? ION makes a very good point, I mean the extreme, mysogynist MRA’s – who are in the minority – are no different to the extreme, misandrist feminists. I wonder if this site is too scared to mock misandry.

  36. Surprised I haven’t made your site yet!

  37. no one here is afraid to mock misandry, though the MRAs have some very weird definitions of what is misandry.

    However, that isn’t the purpose of the site. That’s like calling out a space-loving website for not doing geology commentary because things are just as interesting under the atmosphere as above it.

    Futrelle has a shtick and he likes it. he’s good at it. And the people he attracts like a website that calls out the misogyny of the MRAs and PUAs.

    However – Futrelle and many of the repeat commenters here also comment at, “No, Seriously: What About The Menz?” NSWATM is a site that is almost all about misandry (though it covers more misogyny than this site covers misandry, in my experience, both have a focus and both go outside that focus a lot less than they stay inside of it. We’re just talking about whether it’s 1% or 5%.

    Anyway, your “too scared” jibe is noted and dismissed. It has as much to do with fear as the aforementioned space website “fears” to cover geology.

  38. Clever. You encourage hatred towards men while using their own language to shame them. Even the name of your site is an effort to shame men.

    You’re just a hate-mongerer albeit an intelligent and creative one. Hitler would have just loved you.

  39. Yeah, Casper, because Hitler was all about feminism! All about it.

  40. Au contraire, Casper. Heaping ridicule on a select group of dumbasses is not encouraging hatred towards men.

  41. MGTOW FORUMS!!

    Otherwise play russian roulette with your life by being with “wimmin”.

  42. MGTOW has come from the large proportion of beta males in their 20s who’ve experienced a strong pattern of rejection by the “grrrls” because they were nothing more than nice and in peak health. Like a lot of women who’ve been rejected by men, these beta males have decided to go their own way too (see what I did there with the equality thing), but there are a lot more of them around, hence the MGTOW Forums. MGTOW Forums is basically a place for men to share their stories of rejection and the lessons learned. Of course, with all forums there’s always some sexism, but generally logic and reason takes precedence over blame – something that can’t be said about manboobz’ typically feminist ‘dancing around the issue’ and disposable shaming language approach.

  43. Besides, what’s it to you? A men’s forum is a MEN’S forum. You’d learn a thing or two about (actually being feminine) if you looked at it with less hatred.

  44. RIGHT FlooberDoober, because this is 1950 and the only opinions women are allowed to express are about the fluffiness of kittens. What exactly do you define as feminine? Should we all go back to binding our feet for your satisfaction?

  45. Just a question about the definition of Anglosphere – “those countries that used to be British colonies”?

    One of the first countries that I think of with that definition is India, which I presume is not the category of country that you meant. Despite English being one of very many official languages there, it’s not exactly predominantly English-speaking (except for perhaps within certain classes in certain areas, I suppose, although I’m not certain that’s the case either). Obviously correct me if I’m wrong and you did mean to include the non-“western” colonies, but that part might perhaps need a rephrase. :)
    (And if I am wrong, could I ask your reasons for including such countries?)

    I realise I’m quibbling a bit (sorry!) but I’ve always had the impression that India is considered one of the most important of the former colonies from both a historical and symbolic perspective, and it seems a bit strange to me that it’s grouped with more predominantly anglophone/traditionally-considered countries :/

  46. Mangina huh. Guess the originator of that term hasn’t watched Deuce Bigalow then. It was just a reference to the penis which kinda takes out the sting from an alleged insult. But then some people are just fuckwits

  47. Obviously the context in which the word mangina is most often used doesn’t register with you. The word “enabler” doesn’t have enough sting, so we use “mangina” because frankly, we’re tired of PC doublespeak.

    If you had any shred of decency or honesty, you’d first have to admit that not one MRA has posted anything even as remotely hateful as the SCUM Manifesto, which femmes write off as a a joke, so that they can then proceed to work on getting the best male layers to help convicted females who murder their own children out of jail asap. Get it straight, mangina, male shaped creatures like you, ENABLE female bad behavior when you demonize the men who call it what it is, evil. A mangina is also quite often a man who has no idea that a woman will kick him to the curb when she is done with him, because even the sweetest women hate weak men. Any male lawyer who defends a female criminal he suspects to be guilty is also a mangina.

    Look up Briffault’s Law!

  48. @vklaatu:

    If you had any shred of decency or honesty, you’d first have to admit that not one MRA has posted anything even as remotely hateful as the SCUM Manifesto…

    If you had any shred of honesty or integrity, you’d read the blog that is filled with examples of hateful MRA speak before asking us to admit they don’t exist.

  49. If you had any shred of decency or honesty, you’d first have to admit that not one MRA has posted anything even as remotely hateful as the SCUM Manifesto,

    You’re kidding, right? You guys do it all the time, it’s just not as long. I mean, that’s putting aside that the SCUM Manifesto was probably a parody, and was never published by its author; taking it entirely at face value, you idiots post shit that hateful on a regular basis. we see them in the common

    help convicted females who murder their own children out of jail asap

    Because only women hire lawyers. Men all, to a man, instantly confess before ever getting a lawyer.

    A mangina is also quite often a man who has no idea that a woman will kick him to the curb when she is done with him,

    Yeah, you’re really helping your case here.

    Any male lawyer who defends a female criminal he suspects to be guilty is also a mangina.

    You know nothing of the ethics involved in the law, do you?

  50. *see them in the common trolls. FUck, we have at least 3 regular trolls who straight up want to enslave women, raping and beating all women who are not perfectly submissive.

  51. Obviously the context in which the word mangina is most often used doesn’t register with you. The word “enabler” doesn’t have enough sting, so we use “mangina” because frankly, we’re tired of PC doublespeak.

    Oh please spare me from your male shaming crap, you care so much about men’s right but you could give less of a damn about men who don’t fit your standard of masculinity. Thats what you are doing here, trying to shame a guy by being too “feminine”. fuck you

    male shaped creatures like you

    male shaped? Again with you male shaming crap. I can call you a man despite not agreeing with you. Is that you you rationalize you hate? You aren’t a man therefore I can try to shame you! Its really convenient for you isn’t it?

    not one MRA has posted anything even as remotely hateful as the SCUM Manifesto,

    -the mra that wanted to cut out the voiceboxes of little girls
    -dmk who wanted to force all women into brothels
    -mras who suggest breivik’s shooting was justified

  52. repostinggg

    Obviously the context in which the word mangina is most often used doesn’t register with you. The word “enabler” doesn’t have enough sting, so we use “mangina” because frankly, we’re tired of PC doublespeak.

    Oh please spare me from your male shaming crap, you care so much about men’s right but you could give less of a damn about men who don’t fit your standard of masculinity. Thats what you are doing here, trying to shame a guy by being too “feminine”. fuck you

    male shaped creatures like you

    male shaped? Again with you male shaming crap. I can call you a man despite not agreeing with you. Is that you you rationalize you hate? You aren’t a man therefore I can try to shame you! Its really convenient for you isn’t it?

    not one MRA has posted anything even as remotely hateful as the SCUM Manifesto,

    -the mra that wanted to cut out the voiceboxes of little girls
    -dmk who wanted to force all women into brothels
    -mras who suggest breivik’s shooting was justified

    just a few examples

  53. Heh, I actually did look up Briffault’s Law, and this site came up. So basically, all women only associate with a man if a man is providing something for her right now, and keep no promises once that benefit stops, eh? Wow, women must all be sociopaths.

    On the plus side, the blogger on the site comes to the conclusion that all women are whores, so he and Tom Martin would probably be best friends.

  54. Crumbelievable

    -the mra that wanted to cut out the voiceboxes of little girls
    -dmk who wanted to force all women into brothels
    -mras who suggest breivik’s shooting was justified

    – the 100+ MRAs on The Spreadhead who thought women shouldn’t vote
    – the FEMALE MRA who said that if a woman wore a skimpy outfit, it meant her body was public property
    – The MRA subreddit moderator who wrote that a false rape accuser should have her house burned down and her throat slit
    – The Reddit MRAs who believed that women innately have a lesser sense of justice than men
    – the MRA who wrote that lots of women are conniving bitches “begging” to be raped
    – The MRA who wrote that he would do ansolutely nothing to help a woman being raped
    and the other MRA who seconded this
    – The MRA who admitted he was a violent person, then said that if MRAs’ demands weren’t met, widespread violence would occur and he would do nothing to stop it
    – The MRA who talked at length about detonating bombs in malls in order to kill feminists and manginas
    – The 45 MRAS who upvoted that comment and the many more who saw the post but didn’t bother to condemn it whatsoever
    – The MRA who said that women are like stupid children

    And many, many more!

    I can’t resist taking the troll bait sometimes.

  55. “Besides, what’s it to you? A men’s forum is a MEN’S forum. You’d learn a thing or two about (actually being feminine) if you looked at it with less hatred.”

    Why would women would want to learn about “actually being feminine” from a group of men whose defining characteristic (according to themselves) is that they’ve been repeatedly rejected by women? If that’s the case, clearly most women don’t care very much about what those particular guys think about how women ought to perform femininity (since they already rejected them), so what possible benefit to them would reading MGTOW forums offer?

  56. Besides, what’s it to you? A misogyny-mocking forum is a MISOGYNY-mocking forum. You’d learn a thing or two about (not being mockable) if you looked at it with less hatred.

  57. Definition of WHORE
    1
    : a woman who engages in sexual acts for money : prostitute; also : a promiscuous or immoral woman
    2
    : a male who engages in sexual acts for money
    3
    : a venal or unscrupulous person

  58. I subscribe to Robert Heinlein’s take on humanity:

    “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”

    That, comrades, is a definition of Man, by a man, and I’ve never heard any woman anywhere at anytime aspire to do all that. I’ve personally done many of those things myself, some much better than others. So as far as I’m concerned, unless you’re a MGHOW of some stripe, and bear in mind that I personally participated in the Men’s Movement back in the 90’s, to me and even many women, you’re basically just a male shaped creature. Note that I’m not attaching any serious moral stigma to that, you are what you are, and that’s all you are unless you wish to sets your sights a bit higher.

    Male shaped creatures often enable female shaped creatures bad behavior. Grow a spine. Women are getting closer and closer to getting away with murder, literally, based soely on the vagina mystique alone, i.e. “oh you poor creature, it’s so hard to be a woman, we’ll let you off for killing your children.” Male and female shaped lawyers and judges allow these atrocities all the time, yet men routinely get exocuted for less. Double standards abound. Radical feminists are are actually praised as warrior women for spouting hate speech far more venal than anything on that site or youtube.

  59. “A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.”

    It would seem Heinlein needs to add reading comprehension to his list to hekp your ass understand better.

  60. I’ve personally done many of those things myself, some much better than others.

    Bwahahahahahaha!!!

    dude April Fools day ends at 12 pm.

  61. I know I have not aspired to do all of that because I have a life outside of doing a huge list of random things.

    I did once write a sonnet that I used the same day for another assignment.

  62. That, comrades, is a definition of Man, by a man, and I’ve never heard any woman anywhere at anytime aspire to do all that.

    I can already do most of the things on that list without substantial attempts to have super diverse knowledge, and I have skills Heinlein totally forgot about, like “Write my way out of a paper bag” and “cook”. It doesn’t change that he was stupid as hell to write it, though; specialization is an increasing fact of life, and it ain’t going to be any easier to avoid just because a writer stamped his feet against the future that week (He wasn’t exactly consistent). It does make his incredibly inplausible scifi less defensible though.

    . So as far as I’m concerned, unless you’re a MGHOW of some stripe, and bear in mind that I personally participated in the Men’s Movement back in the 90′s, to me and even many women, you’re basically just a male shaped creature.

    So you’re an asshole with a paper thin excuse. Got it.

    Women are getting closer and closer to getting away with murder,

    Statement assumes facts not in evidence.

    Radical feminists are are actually praised

    And dude, I look at Radfemhub from time to time., because of this very claim (that they’re worse or as bad as the Spearhead). NOPE. The worst you generally see there isn’t horrible to men, it’s horrible to trans people or the poor. They certainly don’t demand the death, rape, or enslavement of men on anywhere near as regular a basis as The Spearhead does, if it does so at all.

  63. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.

    That, comrades, is a definition of Man, by a man, and I’ve never heard any woman anywhere at anytime aspire to do all that. I’ve personally done many of those things myself, some much better than others.

    So far, having not aspired to or cared about this list, and as a fairly ordinary and not especially accomplished twentysomething, I’ve unambiguously done at least 13/22, and have arguably done 17/22, if you count invasions in games, buildings made of Lego and the like, and building things that are not walls (I don’t have any particular reason to build a wall, but I’ve built things like bookshelves), and feel that the fights I had with my brother as a kid were “efficient.” (I sometimes “won” despite being half his size, insofar as I got him to stop and leave me alone, so I guess that was efficient of me?) I haven’t set any bones because that’s something I tend to think should be left to people with medical degrees, haven’t butchered any hogs because on top of not being a butcher, I gave up pork a long time ago, haven’t pitched manure because manure is stinky and I see no reason to seek out unnecessary quality time with it, haven’t conned a ship because I live in Missouri, which is not an area known for its abundance of seafaring vessels, and haven’t died because I’m not a zombie or a vampire. I’d love to hear how you’re ahead of me in this particular list, Mr. Manly Man. :-p

  64. That, comrades, is a definition of Man, by a man, and I’ve never heard any woman anywhere at anytime aspire to do all that. I’ve personally done many of those things myself, some much better than others. So as far as I’m concerned, unless you’re a MGHOW of some stripe, and bear in mind that I personally participated in the Men’s Movement back in the 90′s, to me and even many women, you’re basically just a male shaped creature. Note that I’m not attaching any serious moral stigma to that, you are what you are, and that’s all you are unless you wish to sets your sights a bit higher.

    Oh my sweet Jesus.

    1: That wasn’t Heinlein’s definition, it was the definition he ascribed to Lazarus Long.

    2: Having spent time with Heinlein, and with those who were closer friends of his I can tell you his opinion of MGTOW’s; you wouldn’t like it. For all the problems in his books, and the relics of his time, age, and upbringing, he would look at your “movement” and laugh, mock, and lambaste.

    Because he’d think your premises were shit, your goals loathsome, and your rhetoric puerile.

    3: Insofar as you want to take quotations of Lazarus Long to the worth of Holy Writ you need to take the work as a whole and consider as well:

    Men are more sentimental than women. It blurs their thinking.

    So, about that rationality you are trying to claim…

    If it can’t be expressed in figures, it is not science; it is opinion.

    Got figure to back that assertion about no women wanting/being able to do those things?

    What a wonderful world it is that has girls in it!

    Why are you going your own way?

    A woman is not property, and husbands who think otherwise are living in a dreamworld.

    Substitute “partner” and you are close to Heinlein’s thinking, esp. if he had lived to the present day.

    What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”–what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!

    Got those numbers yet? Or are you still peddling opinion as “truth”?

    And… the one you will choke on…

    Whenever women have insisted on absolute equality with men, they have invariably wound up on the dirty end of the stick. What they are and what they can do makes them superior to men, and their proper tactic is to demand special privileges, all the traffic will bear. They should never settle merely for equality. For women, “equality” is a disaster.

    SO you ought to be pleased as punch that women are asking for equality. You also need to either retract the bullshit you were peddling, or admit that women who get special privileges are merely, per your touchstone’s words, getting what they ought to be entitled to.

    No matter how you slice it, Heinlein’s words mean you need to sit down, shut up, and let the grown ups run the conversation.

  65. I can’t believe people troll the GLOSSARY here.

  66. Creative Writing Student

    ^ Some people have no lives, or are desperately trying to avoid writing a rationale for their poetry. Bad CWS. Bad!

  67. Wait, Pecunium: WHEN DID YOU SPEND TIME WITH ROBERT HEINLEIN? O.O

  68. Molly: It was a longish time ago. I joined fandom in the ’70s, in LA. Heinlein had moved to Santa Cruz by then (Laurel Canyon no longer being strange/hippy enough to his taste), but he still came to town every so often. We belonged to the same club, so he’d be in town from time to time.

    When I was about 13 there was a non-SF based con, about the time Reagan had his famous “Science Fiction Writers Can Help Us Save the World (Western European/US Edition), and I got to sit down with him for about half an hour, just the two of us.

    We had friends (Niven being the only one you’d be likely to know) in common. He was very aware of babies, and children. When my mother was pregnant with my little sister he recalled the general time frame of her due date and called to see how things were going, about two days after she was born. That, or he asked Larry to let him know, and so was able to be timely.

    There are photos of him dandling her on his knee, shortly before he died.

    He was a nice guy, prickly in some ways, and very much a liberal; for someone born in rural Missouri in 1907, and then the Naval Acadamy, etc. He was, mostly, a live and let live libertarian, with a moderate streak of taxes ought to be “for something”. He had some strange (to me/us) ideas about what women were like/wanted, but he would never have ascribed to the idea that they are fundamentally inferior, or grasping/conniving/evil/need to be kept in their place.

    And his books aren’t him. There are chunks of him, but even those aren’t prescriptive. That quotation is, in some ways, the closest to “the genuine article”, but it’s not a checklist, it’s a philosophy. I’ve done (or tried) to do all the things on it (save, perhaps, “die gallantly). I don’t know that I’ve, “planned an invasion”, but I’ve planned my part of one. I’m not so great at programming computers/solving equations, but the rest? I’ve done them to some degree.

    Which doesn’t make me better than anyone else, and wouldn’t make me, “a human being” in Heinlein’s eyes (and what is it that makes a, “man” writing it so definitive, our little MGTOW friend is a bit blinkered, but we knew that).

    To be a human being is, per Heinlein, to be willing to try to do what needs doing (see that list) and to respect other beings, male, female, alien.

    Which vlklaatu (is he planning to die gallantly, thus saving the world when the robot brings him back to life?) has failed completely to figure out.

  69. RE: vlklaatu

    Oh, oh! I’ve shoveled manure in my day! I’ve done more than half those things without trying! (Does building the wall of my tree fort as a kid count? Is free verse necessarily inferior to sonnets?) Also, I’m cool with being a male-shaped creature, if being a man means I HAVE to die valiantly. What if I get a sudden heart attack? Or get hit by a drunk driver?

    RE: Pecunium

    Is there nothing you haven’t done (besides die gallantly)?

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