WTF is a MGTOW? A Glossary

On this blog, MRA does not mean Magnetic Resonance Angiography

For newcomers to this blog, here’s a handy guide to some of the strange acronyms and lingo you’ll encounter here and in the “manosphere” in general. (For a definition of that term, see below.) I will update this entry periodically as needed.

First, the acronyms you’ll see most often here:

MRA: Men’s Rights Activist
MRM: Men’s Rights Movement

MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way MGHOW: Man Going His Own Way.

Ok, so what do those terms mean?

MRM: The Men’s Rights Movement: A loosely defined, but largely retrograde, collection of activists and internet talkers who fight for what they see as “men’s rights.” Unlike the original Men’s Movement, which was inspired by and heavily influenced by feminism, the self-described Men’s Rights Movement is largely a reactionary movement; with few exceptions, Men’s Rights Activists (or MRAs) are pretty rabidly antifeminist, and many are frankly and sometimes proudly misogynistic. Those who oppose the MRM are generally not against men’s rights per se; they are opposed to those who’ve turned those two words into a synonym for some pretty backwards notions.

MGTOW: Men Going Their Own Way: As the name suggests, MGTOW is a lot like lesbian separatism, but for straight dudes. MGTOW often talk vaguely about seeking “independence” from western and/or consumer culture, and a few MGTOW try to live that sort of zen existence. But most of those who embrace the term have a deep hostility towards and/or profound distrust of feminists and women in general. Many MGTOW refuse to date “western women” and some try to avoid women altogether.  I think the Man Going His Own Way acronym MGHOW adds another layer of confusion to an already awkward acronym, so I use MGTOWer instead.

Some other terms and acronyms you’ll run across here:

Anglosphere: Countries in which English is the primary language, or, more narrowly, those countries that used to be British colonies. They are full of evil Western Women (see below).

Incel: Involuntarily Celibate. A term, and identity, adopted by some dateless guys (as well as some women, but it’s the men we’ll focus on here). While there is nothing shameful about being dateless, or a virgin, or having a really long dry spell sexually — most of us have been there at some point — the term “involuntarily celibate” seems to suggest that the world owes incels sex, and that women who turn down incel men for dates or sex are somehow oppressing them. For those (male, straight) incels who are genuinely socially awkward or phobic, this can be a self-defeating stance that can lead to bitterness towards women. And often does.

Mangina: Derogatory term used by MRAs, MGTOW, etc. to describe guys who disagree with them — e.g., me. You can figure out the various connotations of this term yourself.

The Manosphere: The loose collection of blogs, message boards, and other sites run by and/or read by MRAs, MGTOW, and assorted friendly Pick-up Artists. The primary source of material for this blog.

NAWALT: Not All Women Are Like That. Dudes in the manosphere make so many ridiculous and untrue generalizations about women that they’ve come up with their own little acronym to describe the most common reaction to their nonsense: “not all women are like that.” Remarkably, many seem to think that making a reference to NAWALT is actually some sort of clever rebuttal of their critics.

PUA: Pick-up Artist. PUAs are obsessed with mastering what they see as the ultimate set of techniques and attitudes — known as “Game” — that will enable them to quickly seduce almost any woman they want. There is a vast literature on “game” online, though PUA (insofar as it is not complete bullshit) is at its essence simply a male version of the age-old ploy of “playing hard to get.”

Western Women: Also known as WW. Evil harpies, at least according to many in the manosphere. Contrasted with “foreign women,” a term that (in the manosphere, at least) sometimes refers to all women outside the Anglosphere, but often refers to a subset of these women from poor and/or Eastern countries, mostly Asian, who are regarded as more pliable and thus more desirable to haters of “Ameriskanks” and other WW.

  1. grumpyoldnurse

    @ Anarchonist – might I say that I have always enjoyed your posts? If you have a newsletter, I would very much like to subscribe to it.

  2. I have a feeling he means “men have fended for themselves” in a collective way? As in, “men fought the tigers and hunted mammoth and died building civilisation while women sat at home raising kids, which is totes not real work because motherhood comes naturally to them.” Yes/no?

  3. @Anarchonist:

    I also see that you started focusing on my points the moment I revealed that I identify as a man, despite my post not being nearly as elaborately written as those of many others here. Gosh, you misogynistic trolls are so utterly predictable.

    Ooh, does that mean he’ll start paying attention to me once I reveal I’m a man as well? Let’s find out!

    @sunnysombrera:

    I’m positive that’s what he means. MRAs can only really ever argue about collective responsibilities and accomplishments, because when has any of them individually ever actually done anything productive or useful (on a society-wide scale, anyway)?

    Plus, if they want to argue that rights are awarded based on contribution, then they can be assured that “they” have already earned their rights by virtue of another’s work. They can avoid the responsibility (as they see it) while claiming the rewards.

  4. Plus, if they want to argue that rights are awarded based on contribution, then they can be assured that “they” have already earned their rights by virtue of another’s work. They can avoid the responsibility (as they see it) while claiming the rewards.

    That’s the thing that ALWAYS, ALWAYS sticks in my craw with “Meritocracy” bigots. They want people to be judged individually… by the perceived capabilities of other people who happen to share their gender, skin color, etc. The average mouth-breathing sexist wants to be seen as more valuable by latching themselves like parasites to the accomplishments of powerful, intelligent and capable men.

  5. @sunnysombrera

    By that logic, fighting tigers, hunting mammoth and building civilisation doesn’t count as real work either because that stuff just comes naturally to men.

    These MRA types never follow things through to their logical conclusions. I don’t always agree with feminists either, but they at least generally think things through properly.

  6. unknown traveler

    You guys are taking all this to extremes. All I said is we should have an equal society were (more specifically) everyone takes responsibility for themselves based off of their own charactor and not gender. This applies to both men and women. Its really not that hard to grasp.

    Its funny though. I didn’t say anything about women not working, our society benefiting only women, or traditional ideals were women must serve men, or deciding not to change society. But somehow all this just appeared. And beautifully worded as if those words came from my mouth. Isn’t that sexy?

    Now about your notion on equality. It has nothing to do with men getting the last word. It has everything to do with being FAIR and EQUAL between the two sexes. Mind you equility can be achieved multiple ways. One of which is were women and men discuss to an agreement in how they will treat one another. However both men and women have to be willing to negotiate for that to happen. If either party aren’t up for negotiations then only 50/50 equility can be achieved. Which as I stated I’m perfectly fine with. The reality is that just went over your head because you were too busy searching for misogyny. I get that, because I understand how your ideology works. So I’ll give you a pass on that one.

    By the way I engaged you anarchonist because you made some good points. This is an interesting to experience because your the first male feminist I spoken to. In truth I usually ignore you guys. But now we’re getting into the more gynocentric talk. I’m not interested in that. It leads to trying to reason with feminist and thats a complete waste of time.

    Oh and maybe if we all tried changing corporate America for the benefit of people rather then just women we’d get along a lot nicer. After all, even if feminism prevails corporate America will still be calling the shots.

    I could go on to give you your proof but I’m lazy and don’t care enough to do the work. Take that how you will. I’ve spent enough time here and it time to move on.

  7. Shorter totallyobvious: You feeeeemales just aren’t accepting that what I say is profound biotroof without any kind of proof or evidence of any sort, and I can’t really provide any because none exists, so I’m just going to say I’m too lazy to provide any and flounce. LOGIC. COURAGE. MANHOOD. (But you’re cool, manarchonist. because man. brofist!).

  8. I’ll give the flounce a 3/10

    The points all come from the hilarity of him using the excuse that you can’t reason with a feminist as cover for his inability to back any of his claims with evidence.

    I guess we’ll have to trust in his supreme manlogicking skills and take his word for it.

  9. Mind you equility can be achieved multiple ways. One of which is were women and men discuss to an agreement in how they will treat one another. However both men and women have to be willing to negotiate for that to happen.

    Two groups of 3.5 billion individuals can’t negotiate. There will never be a “Man/Woman Summit to Negotiate a Gender Ceasefire,” because that would be ridiculous.

    We’re all just people, dude. Equality comes when all the people are convinced that all the other people are also equal. I dunno how old you are, but there are people who have lived through a cultural shift so drastic that you wouldn’t even recognize where we came from. That process is going to continue as gender roles are continuously challenged, rights are won, and people simply stop thinking about the world in terms of girls vs boys.

    After all, even if feminism prevails corporate America will still be calling the shots.

    Congrats, you’re getting the briefest glimpse of kyriarchy, where gender is only one axis in a variety of various axes that privilege operates. In particular, economic/class power. Yet somehow you still don’t grok that work towards eliminating inequality along any axis is useful.

    If either party aren’t up for negotiations then only 50/50 equility can be achieved. Which as I stated I’m perfectly fine with. The reality is that just went over your head because you were too busy searching for misogyny. I get that, because I understand how your ideology works. So I’ll give you a pass on that one.

    Well aren’t we condescending today. Let me know when you’ve worked out the difference between “FAIR and EQUAL equality” vs “50/50 equility”. Or when you’ve learned how to actually quote people when telling them what they’ve said.

  10. Yeah, that was a weak flounce. A point for flat-out admitting to laziness, but that’s all.

  11. Unknown traveler:

    How about your notion on equality. It has nothing to do with men getting the last word. It has everything to do with being FAIR and EQUAL between the two sexes. Mind you equility can be achieved multiple ways. One of which is were women and men discuss to an agreement in how they will treat one another. However both men and women have to be willing to negotiate for that to happen. If either party aren’t up for negotiations then only 50/50 equility can be achieved. Which as I stated I’m perfectly fine with. The reality is that just went over your head because you were too busy searching for misogyny. I get that, because I understand how your ideology works. So I’ll give you a pass on that one.

    Out of morbid curiosity, what needs to be negotiated, exactly? Examples would be awesome.

    That question out of the way, to everybody else in the previous page giving wonderful feminist reasoning for the problems of toxic masculinity, and how that is the way feminists are trying to get rid of men’s problems that MRAs always list, I agree 100%, but it’s a bit futile to tell them that. That’s really not the solution they want. Toxic masculinity (i doubt they’d call it toxic) isn’t something they view as bad and to them the problems men are facing are due to feminism.

    When the issue of men facing abuse from women(and when they bring it up, it’s always women… I don’t think I’ve heard of them addressing a man facing abuse from a male partner), our solution is more encouragement for men to seek shelter and support, and fight the notion that a man being abused is shameful and makes him lesser. On the other hand, their solution is to not allow the female abusers hide behind the idea that men can’t hit women and allow\encourage men to put them in their place like they feel men should be able to. (Look at Elam’s “satire”)

    They don’t want to get rid of an uneven percentage of women receiving alimony in a divorce by getting rid of the notion that it’s a woman’s job to stay home while the man works and create a society where there’s no social pressure determining who stays at home in a household where the couple decides (and is able) to utilize a single income, thus limiting work experience that theoretically could be needed if something doesn’t work out later (hopefully not). They still want the man to be the bread winner while the wife stays at home. And they definitely don’t want the woman to be able to choose to divorce the man. Also, if the man decides he wants to divorce the woman, he wants a clean break. And apparently get to decide if he keeps the kids or not.

    The one thing I’ve never ever quite understood, and I see it SOOOO much, is the idea that feminists want women to have men’s rights but not men’s responsibilities. What exactly are they saying here? I don’t think they’re only talking about the draft and military service (I don’t think many (any?) feminists want the draft to single out only one gender, and feminists have been fighting tooth and nail to get women into the service…), it seems to be a much broader thing… but I can never find examples of what they mean. Maybe my womanly brain can’t fathom the manly mansponsibilities they have that I don’t (and as a feminist, don’t want (apparently)).

    Hrm… that was kinda longer than I intended.

  12. I want to know about this best friend Katie who’s never introduced herself to me. I’m sure she’s very nice, but I’ll never know if she doesn’t speak up.

    (Perhaps she doesn’t exist in the Southern Hemisphere. That’s totally unfair to leave all us OZ and NZ feminists out of it. We need friends too.)

  13. I propose we make “our feminist friend Katie” a meme right up there with scented candles and living DIRECTLY ON THE BEACH.

    My feminist friend Katie thinks this is a great idea.

  14. My feminist friend Katie agrees with fromafar2013.

  15. Its funny though. I didn’t say anything about women not working, our society benefiting only women, or traditional ideals were women must serve men, or deciding not to change society. But somehow all this just appeared. And beautifully worded as if those words came from my mouth. Isn’t that sexy?

    Oooh, remember that part you mentioned earlier about being able to scroll up and see what feminists wrote? It works on you too.

    Let’s see here…

    “I didn’t say anything about women not working”

    And mind you men have been fending for themselves for quite some time. I don’t see why it’s a problem if women would have to do the same.

    “our society benefiting only women”

    And yes, the patriarchy does exist. But mind you it’s a system that is run by men and designed by men, yet in many ways…. it supports of women?

    “or traditional ideals were women must serve men”

    (Maybe women don’t care for male appreciation.) Thats when it clicked, its so simple. The truth is feminist don’t care for male appreciation. They care male sacrifice. They only care themselves. The needs of women and nothing more. Its so glorious.

    “or deciding not to change society”

    So what’s wrong with men teaching other men to prioritize themselves over women… They should just accept that this is the new masculinity and allow men to live it and teach it as they please…Now whether or not mgtow makes a difference in our culture is irrelevant…

    Now granted, we’re pretty good at reading between the lines, and understand what you MEAN and not just what you literally say, especially in relation to how these ideas work in the real world.

    Now, on the other hand, if you didn’t mean what it looks like you mean, maybe you should clarify?

    Isn’t that sexy?

    Now you’re just being gross and weird.

  16. Asking for clear rational arguments is misandry!!

  17. Now about your notion on equality. It has nothing to do with men getting the last word. It has everything to do with being FAIR and EQUAL between the two sexes. Mind you equility can be achieved multiple ways. One of which is were women and men discuss to an agreement in how they will treat one another. However both men and women have to be willing to negotiate for that to happen.

    Yes, because that’s how the American Revolution worked, and the abolishing of slavery, and suffrage and civil rights! Everyone sat down and talked things through calmly and negotiated a happy middle and everyone was happy forever after! /sarcasm

    -_-;

    Isn’t this an example of a fallacy? … ah, yes. Here it is.

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground

  18. @unknown traveler:

    Since the fine people here have already expertly vivisected your weak little “you’re all so mean!” post, I’ll just address a few small things that still bother me.

    Now about your notion on equality. It has nothing to do with men getting the last word. It has everything to do with being FAIR and EQUAL between the two sexes. Mind you equility can be achieved multiple ways. One of which is were women and men discuss to an agreement in how they will treat one another. However both men and women have to be willing to negotiate for that to happen. If either party aren’t up for negotiations then only 50/50 equility can be achieved. Which as I stated I’m perfectly fine with.

    How are you coming up with these numbers? Seriously? What the heck is “50/50 equility [sic]”? What does it mean? Previously, you said that 50/50 equality is TRUE equality; why are you now saying it’s “only” 50/50 equality?

    You say there are multiple ways to achieve equality, yet you only present us with one. Have you given this any thought at all, or are you making stuff up as you go along?

    Also, why are FAIR and EQUAL in all caps? Is there doubt? Did you seriously not learn anything, still parroting MRA bullshit about feminist wanting to “rule men”? In case it’s still unclear to you, men’s rights are in no danger. They never have been. Claiming otherwise is sheer ridiculousness. Others getting the same rights as you is not taking away from your rights. Losing privilege is not the same as losing rights.

    That is what the MGTOW claim, so I get why you would be confused. The MGTOW is a pure revenge fantasy against all the terrible, immoral feeeeemales that don’t even exist outside of a MGTOW’s fevered imagination. Could you do yourself a favor and just listen to (don’t interrupt, don’t rationalize with biotroofs, just listen to) and try to empathize with actual, living and breathing human women? You’ll find that men and women are really not that different. Your “female nature” claim really does not hold water in the real world where women are more than stereotypes made up by men who hate them. You might actually learn something by stepping outside your mental bubble once in a while.

    Or don’t. In that case, just keep going your own way. That might actually be better for everyone involved.

    This point is extra hilarious,keeping in mind the next one:

    The reality is that just went over your head because you were too busy searching for misogyny. I get that, because I understand how your ideology works. So I’ll give you a pass on that one.

    No, what you said was

    The patriarchy needs to be destroyed so TRUE 50/50 equality can be achieve. How that equality unfolds will be determined by how feminist regard men in the matter. That is if men will even care to negotiate anymore.

    It doesn’t take “searching” to see that in your opinion 1) how feminists regard men will determine what happens after the dismantling of patriarchy, and 2) men won’t want to negotiate “anymore” (giving a vague time limit), since they’re apparently fed up with feminism or something, and won’t want to agree to the terms of equality because feminists were so meeeeaaan to them before.

    In other words: “You feminists should really be nicer to us men, or something scary and ominous-sounding will happen and it’ll all be your own fault.” Spoken like an abuser.

    You should know better than to come to a feminist blog and not expect us to be able to read. We’re not here just for the cat videos, you know. Adorable as they are.

    By the way I engaged you anarchonist because you made some good points. This is an interesting to experience because your the first male feminist I spoken to. In truth I usually ignore you guys. But now we’re getting into the more gynocentric talk. I’m not interested in that. It leads to trying to reason with feminist and thats a complete waste of time.

    Yeah, I made some good points. With my dick. That’s what we men do; we think with our dicks, and that’s why women can never outthink us, since they don’t have dicks. Trans people? Never heard of them, and they probably have cooties. Anyway, did I mention I have a dick? /sarcasm

    I have no idea what you mean by “gynocentric talk”. Feminism? Then why come to a feminist blog in the first place, silly? And what, exactly, do you expect to talk about with a feminist ally, if not feminism? To me, your comment just sounds like “Yeah, we can talk since you’re a dude like me, but let’s not talk about feminism and equality because that’s totally bogus, bro. Anyway, screw them b***hes, amirite? High five!” That’s not how it works, “bro”.

    Nice going convincing us that you are totally not a misogynist by completely ignoring all the women who have replied to you in favor of a dude who replied to you, though.

    Oh and maybe if we all tried changing corporate America for the benefit of people rather then just women we’d get along a lot nicer. After all, even if feminism prevails corporate America will still be calling the shots.

    *Sigh* But it’s people, not some weird un-people who benefit from “corporate America” (I’m not American in any sense of the word, so I’ll refrain from using that phrase from now on). Discussing “people” in the general sense as being oppressed is silly if there are no lizard-people or aliens doing the oppressing (there aren’t, just in case that needed to be spelled out). That’s why fighting for some vague “equality for all” is meaningless; there has to be an oppressive and an oppressed group, otherwise it doesn’t work. “People” is too broad a group, as it includes both the oppressors and the oppressed. That is why it’s pointless to discuss equality through some myopic lens of “egalitarianism”.

    Those who benefit the most from the system are rich white men. Feminism is partly about examining why that is, and how we could change that for the good of all of us. Feminism is about changing the system. It’s about challenging power structures. It’s about social justice and dismantling privilege in all its forms. Why won’t you learn about feminism before criticizing it for something anti-feminists claim it represents?

    ———————

    rant:

    For the record, I agree with you on corporations. My ideology (anarcha-feminism) seeks the complete dismantling of all hierarchies and power structures, politically, economically and socially. Basically, I believe that power (and the craving thereof) is the root of all evil. Corporate rule is just a new version of the same old nobility system. On this we agree.

    However, I’ve also had it up to here with white dude revolutionaries claiming that classism is the most important, indeed, the only axis of privilege and oppression that needs to be considered. In many ways, I’d say it’s probably the least important. Politics and economics are ultimately much less important than social change.

    Revolutions come and go, but in order for all oppression to cease and true equality to be achieved, people need to let go of the false Hobbesian belief that humans can’t peacefully cooperate with each other, that we are doomed to fight amongst each other unless we surrender ourselves to supreme, “more worthy” people. “More worthy” being, of course, powerful and privileged people. Similarly, privileged people need to let go of the idea that they are “more worthy” by virtue of being born a certain sex, race, or other hierarchical position.

    As our society is now, a sudden anarchist revolution would not work. Too many people embrace harmful beliefs about social hierarchy, and we would end up with just another dog-eat-dog system where people seek to rule over each other, probably following the same patriarchal, racist notions as before. The way I see it, once the traditional view of humans as selfish, violent and power-hungry creatures disappears, then we can talk about true political change.

    Got it? Good. Now for the interesting part: Since the default human in our patriarchal system is a man, not a woman (who is indeed actively taught to be a victim), it is first and foremost the traditional view of masculinity, the toxic kind, that needs to go away in order for its harmful ideology to fade from society.

    That is why I, as an anarchist, support feminism with all my heart. Because society is us, and society won’t change until we do.

    Sure, it’s a slow process. You and I may not live to see full equality, but that’s not the point. Any change away from a hierarchical system towards equality on any axis is a small victory. We all have to do our share to make the world a better place not only for us, but for future generations as well. Any change, however insignificant it may seem may still have helped one person, and even one person matters. Even one more little girl understanding that she’s just as capable as any boy, even one more black child realizing the color of their skin does not make them lesser, even one more little boy being taught that girly does not equal bad, even one more person getting how much sexism, racism, homophobia and other forms of bigotry harm humanity as a whole, and it has all been worth it. For the sake of saving one world, and potentially more as they pay it forward. If you can’t see the beauty in that, then I don’t know what to tell you.

    /rant

    ——————–

    I could go on to give you your proof but I’m lazy and don’t care enough to do the work. Take that how you will. I’ve spent enough time here and it time to move on.

    Well, what do you know! Finally a sentiment we can all fully agree on!

    I’ll also have to agree with fromafar2013 that including the completely unnecessary “sexy” in your post just makes you look weird and a tad creepy. Please don’t do that.

    @grumpyoldnurse: Aww, shucks, thanks a lot! No, I haven’t got a newsletter (you mean private people have them too? I didn’t know that). I’ve thought about starting a blog, but I’m just too technically inept for that.

    @kirbywarp: Now you jinxed it! Making a misogynist aware of their misogyny results in them trying ever harder to hide their misogyny.

    —————————

    Okay, after this ordeal, I’m going to go cry into a pillow since I’m getting pretty overwhelmed by feelings of both hope for humanity and despair over all the people still not only not getting it, but actively fighting to keep others from getting it as well.

  19. Holy macaroni, that’s one long teal deer.

  20. Politics and economics are ultimately much less important than social change.

    QFT

  21. @ Anarchonist – if you do start a blog, I would read it, no matter how bad the format was.

    One aside; I read this

    maybe if we all tried changing corporate America for the benefit of people rather then just women

    as a subconscious tell that our travelling friend thinks women aren’t people. If he actually believed that women are a subset of the group ‘people’ wouldn’t he have said “all people” instead? It is, however, possible that I am reading too much into this and that English is not his first language.

  22. I’m not interested in that. It leads to trying to reason with feminist and thats a complete waste of time.

    Then.

    Why.

    The.

    Fuck.

    Are.

    You.

    Here?

    Seriously. “Feminists can’t be reasoned with, so I’m going to go to a feminist blog and attempt to talk to the feminists there about my views on the world that obviously clash with everything they stand for and then I’m going to marvel at the fact that they don’t agree with me!”

    How self-defeating can you get with your self-fulfilling prophecies? You walked in here with the idea in your head that we can’t be reasoned with, then you shove a bunch of macho pro-patriarchy-but-not-really-I’m-totally-for-equality-u-guiz bullshit in our faces, then prance about like you won? What a prat.

    Stick the flounce.

  23. What an amazing coincidence, that the only person on this thread who identified himself as male just happened to be the only one who made “good points” and was worth talking to like a human being instead of scolding and ranting at!

    What are the odds?

  24. Buttercup Q. Skullpants

    In truth I usually ignore you guys. But now we’re getting into the more gynocentric talk. I’m not interested in that. It leads to trying to reason with feminist and thats a complete waste of time.

    Translation: “I don’t like what feminists say, but I’m not all that smart and don’t know how to refute them, and I’m afraid to directly engage with them in case they change my mind or make me look foolish and cost me precious Man Points. So I’ll arrogantly dismiss and ignore them, to maintain the illusion that I am superior.”

    You’ve admitted you’re too lazy to back up your asspinions with proof, and now you’ve admitted you’re too cowardly to acknowledge women, ON A FEMINIST BLOG FILLED WITH WOMEN. Dude, that’s incredibly rude, like going to a party and talking to one person loudly about all the guests right in front of their faces, as if they’re not even there.

    Come back when you’ve learned some manners.

  25. Oh wow. If this thread keeps getting necroed, I’m going to have to start calling this the MGTOW zombie thread. Just like the MGTOW, it keeps coming back to tell you that it’s leaving, and it kind do stinks with rot.

    Per usual, each one of the them comes in saying:
    1. Happy MGTOW, you ladies will be sorry.
    2. Makes broad pronouncements about feminist/women/social dynamics without providing examples or links that leads to credible evidence that support said claims.

    I give unknown traveler’s flounce a 2/10.

    I can’t say that I have anything to add. All of you pretty much covered it.

  26. This thread is like a porch light bulb to the moths of the MGTOW movement. It attracts swarms of them. OOOH LOOK A SHINY LIGHT TO HURL MYSELF ANGRILY AT. They flutter around and around and around and around and around, scorch their wings, then reel blindly back into the darkness.

    Meanwhile, the light shines on.

    Actually, scratch that. Moths are adorable. Except for the kind that eat your sweaters.

  27. Yeah, don’t dis moths! The magnificent, majestic mangina is a moth!

  28. Omg, just catching up on this ubernecro… I laughed so hard I snorted at SSJ’s assumption that men go check out the noise in a house. Yeah, if you base all your relationship info on shitty movies.

    In my house, I’m the one who checks out the noise. Because I’m totally a badass, you guys.

    Or mostly because I have a career in reducing drug use and reoffending rates and so I deal with “convicts” and “addicts” daily and know what I’m doing, whereas Mr. Luna works in a bank and would freak out.

    Or misandry or something.

  29. I’m interested

  30. A real comment about the glossary. Maybe there should be the addition of SJW? It took me a while to figure out what that was and why it was bad.

  31. And by bad, I mean why MRAs and GGers considered it bad.

  32. I was wondering what are your thoughts on this?

    Does Mysandry still not exist? What do the male feminist have to say about this, are they ok with this philosphy?

    http://www.vice.com/en_au/read/is-reducing-the-male-population-by-90-percent-the-solution-to-all-our-problems

  33. @SSJ:

    Male feminist here, I’ll take a look.

    Hmm, let’s see… Kill 90% of men, leave the remaining 10% for manual labor and breeding purposes, leaving the only real people of this world (women) in control and guarenteeing True Equality(tm)?

    … uh, sounds reasonable? Why?

  34. Although, on the other hand, it’s just the one woman that believes this. I’m not sure we can trust her to pull off this completely necessary genocide of the male portion of our species. We need at least one… no… two other women who believe the same thing. Then we’ll be in business.

  35. Are crackpot theories the answer to all our problems? Uh, NO. Because I’ve never seen one that worked yet.

  36. Ah, begging the question are we, SSJ?

    Allow me to fill you in: No, we feminists don’t want to kill all men. And no, one article (From August of last year) about one person who made a video saying they think killing all men (or most men) is a good thing not going to convince us to change our Feminist Hive Mind (All Hail Katie).

    Saying that this one woman represents all of feminism is like saying that Paul Elam or Vox Day represent every single person in the manosphere, and their beliefs are the group’s beliefs. To be quite frank, Feminism is a big, vast group, with a vast number of individuals with individual ideals, thoughts, and world views. One individual doesn’t represent the whole, just like one drop of water doesn’t represent a lake or an ocean. The internet makes it easy for some of those little water droplets make their voices heard, but it doesn’t mean that the entire lake or ocean agrees with it, nor does it mean that that water droplet is a representative of the entire body of water.

    I sincerely wish you manosperhian types would stop marching in here trying to hold us accountable for something one woman said a while ago that you’re still huffy about, so you can hold aloft your notion that sexism against men is a thing (it’s not, bee-tee-dubs. Sexism [or racism, homophobia, ableism, ect] is an institutionalized system of oppression, not “this one lady said something mean about me/all men!”. It’s women not getting equal pay, getting blamed for their own rapes, ect., and having it all be commonplace and pretty fucking regular. “Men are afraid women will insult them, women are afraid men will kill them.” as the saying goes.) and claim yourselves victorious in a battle only you are fighting.

    Seriously.

  37. The fun thing is that if you look at Femitheist Divine’s youtube channel, you’ll find this as the first line in her about tab.

    Femitheist Divine™ (I am not a Feminist.)

    But hey, she’s a woman, so therefore feminism must answer for her. And she has an idea that relates to gender equality, and it has to do with murdering men! This totally proves that feminists are the evil straw people you always claimed they were.

  38. We all to the manosphere, any time a woman does something bad or something they don’t like, she’s automatically a feminist.

    A woman cut them off in traffic? She must be a feminist!

  39. weirwoodtreehugger | March 26, 2015 at 11:46 pm
    We all to the manosphere, any time a woman does something bad or something they don’t like, she’s automatically a feminist.

    A woman cut them off in traffic? She must be a feminist!

    Or if a woman is, to them and their sad peens, “unbangable”.

    “You’re just a feminist because you’re fat and ugly and men won’t fuck you!”

  40. Whereas if I pulled out those terrifying old comments about removing girls’ voiceboxes at birth, or how “men must communize the c*nt”, I’d drown in the onslaught of “Not All Men!” “Not All MRAs!” “Fringe wackos don’t represent us!”.

    So, SSJ, have you stopped beating your wife yet?

  41. Can I marry the Femitheist after she castrates and kills me?

  42. I liked this part:

    I believe we must remove men from the community and place them in their own specific sections of society

    Isn’t that basically what AVFM is? And look how that turned out.

  43. Sorry for spamming the comment section here, but this article is pretty amazing. It’s like she’s discovered every straw-feminist, straw-atheist and straw-“evolutionist” ever, and thought: “ooh, sounds nice”.

  44. @SSJ:

    Yep, echoing what others have said here:

    Misogyny is about the institutionalized belief that women are inferior to men. It’s seeing everything traditionally regarded as feminine as weak, bad, or downright evil. It’s believing that women are naturally subservient to men. It’s believing that men are the natural decision-makers, whereas women are followers. It’s the “bros before h**s” mentality that you have expressed quite proficiently on this thread.

    It’s about restricting women’s bodily autonomy and personal choices in the name of “preserving the moral backbone of this country”. It’s about restricting women’s access to high positions in society. It’s about shutting women out from certain lines of work and hobbies. It’s about making women feel unsafe in public places, in their homes, everywhere. It’s about seeing rape and domestic abuse as no big deal, and usually the victim’s fault. It’s about misogynistic men sending the message “know your place, or we’ll do something bad to you. Oh, fuck it, we may just do it anyway, just because we can.” And as long as society tolerates misogynistic ideas and behavior, they’re right.

    Misandry is some random woman saying something you personally take offense to. It is not institutionalized, it is not seen in every aspect of society. When men are belittled and insulted, they’re being compared to women; That’s not misandry, that’s misogyny coming back to bite “unmanly men”, whom hateful, patriarchal brodudes see as acceptable casualties in their personal gender war.

    Misogyny is a real issue that penetrates so many of the truths we hold as self-evident because of social indoctrination that unlearning it is a life’s work. Misandry is something that white dudebros came up with in order to shut up all discussion on gender issues. And it is pretty damn insulting to try to equate the two.

    As for your link, every woman who says something you don’t like is not a feminist. The person you linked to is not a feminist, and her thoughts are not feminism-y in the least. The fact that you think so just shows that you still haven’t bothered to do your homework on feminism, and are still parroting the manospherian straw-feminist “kill all men” fairy tales.

    And one individual expressing such beliefs is not a terrible threat to the whole masculine gender. Get over yourself.

  45. I predict that MRA types will be beeping and honking about that as long as they have been about ‘male tears’. Maybe even Valerie Solanas.

    “Hey, this extreme non-feminist outlier proves our points! Jackpot!”

  46. MRAs support Ayaam Hirsi Ali, she is a real feminist dealing with real issues and fighting against the injustices in the middle east.

  47. “Middle East”? You don’t even know where she’s from, do you?

    But yeah, cool, I’ll add her to the list of “feminists we are allowed to like according to MRAs”.

  48. Also apparently there’s an MRA approved list of issues feminists are allowed to work on, otherwise they’re horrible misandrists.

  49. Because when I want to know who a “real” feminist is, a group of angry anti-feminists are the first ones I consult!

  50. ssj | March 28, 2015 at 10:36 pm
    MRAs support Ayaam Hirsi Ali, she is a real feminist dealing with real issues and fighting against the injustices in the middle east.

    “Yeah, there’s this one feminist who’s in a very vague area that’s a better feminist than you, neener, neener, neener!” (Bee-tee-dubs, she’s from Somalia, and she’s a former Muslim, who was subjected to some of the more extremist acts, like female genital mutilation.)

    There they go again, trying to tell western feminists that they should be off doing things in “the middle east”. Can you stop trying to impose your Jingoist bullshit on Feminism? Some of us know that we can’t do jack chicken shit for women in those areas beyond give our support to them and do what they ask of us to help.

    Some of us weren’t raised in their culture, some of us aren’t Muslim, some of us aren’t even a person of color, so we don’t have the right to stand up and declare that we’ll “save” them. Every time a westerner steps foot into a situation like this with a “Great White Savior” complex, shit tends to get bad quick. Sit your ass down and listen to the women and/or feminists from those countries and hear what they have to say.

    And no, our issues are not any more “real” because we live in a “first-world country” (I despise that phrase). We still have issues we’d like to work out too. This isn’t the fucking Oppression Olympics, everyone has issues and we’re allowed to talk about and do something about them. Just because someone has it “worse” than you do doesn’t mean you have to sit down and take all the bullshit you deal with in stride.

    However, that doesn’t mean you get to derail conversations with your problems, or the problems of anyone else. Start your own in your own space.

    If that hurts your fee-fees and makes your boner sad, we honestly don’t care.

  51. any *less “real” because we live in a “first-world country”

    Whoops. Wrong word. : P

  52. http://modernwomandigest.com/male-member-size-dangers/

    I guess having a small penis can be blamed on the patriarchy??? yeah *** those guys….

  53. Dude… why you bringing this weak shit here?

  54. SSJ | April 2, 2015 at 12:22 am
    http://modernwomandigest.com/male-member-size-dangers/

    I guess having a small penis can be blamed on the patriarchy??? yeah *** those guys….

    “I’m just going to ignore everything you had to say last time and just re-necro the thread and post another article! Maybe that’ll work!”

    One, that article is not from (again) one woman with one opinion. She doesn’t represent all of feminism. Stop trying to say we’re all bad people because one feminist said something to hurt your fee-fees.

    Two, different people who are attracted to penises have different preferences of what penises they like. One woman’s article about a study doesn’t mean that all women want a big dick.

    Three, I smell projection.

  55. Paradoxical, did you look around the site? It’s… Like nothing at all. There are no serious articles. It’s not even a feminist site. It’s kind of hilarious as hell, this is so weak.

  56. I believe the site is a sock or something like that.

  57. I thought Woody was the saddest, most pathetic troll we’ve had. But I think we’ve got a new contender.

  58. I’m guessing either SSJ didn’t look around the site, or zie assumed WE wouldn’t. Lol

  59. @isidore: Actually, no I didn’t. I read the author’s biography though, and it did kind of smack of “Preachy Western Feminist”. : /

    I also saw a very irritating argument from an MRA on tumblr today who tried to argue with another user that feminism should be helping men not get circumcised anymore (and using tons of straw to argue that fact), and that feminism should be helping men with all their problems because “feminists have all the power” and have had it “since the 70s”. : /

    Some people these days…

  60. males have huge pride issues…

    most fathers I know take great pride on their kids… and they look with great shame at themselves…

    they avoid their own because they feel worthless… a common cause most men abandon their families… they feel they are useless… they just go away…

    your dad is ashamed, his “indifference” is a facade….one that he will NEVER admit….

    he will not bother you with his life… that is his way of thinking…
    what good he is for you?

    you must understand… all of you daughters of dads…
    men are feeling useless…

    they fail… they drink
    they drink…they fail more…
    they get drugs… they fail more…
    all they do is a failure…
    they embarrass everyone… they are a burden…

    they leave…

    ask yourself what can a weak man do if he fails?
    he will admit his weakness and cry for help?
    who will help him?
    other males?
    the women he suppose to impress with its “abilities”..?

    a man knows when he fails…
    running away is his acknowledgment… he is a failure…
    he is a burden…

    society never talks about them…
    the ones that fail….
    there are no “support groups”… “hot lines”….”happy thoughts”…”empowerment speeches”…

    if you are a man… and you fail…
    is your fault and your fault alone….
    you cannot blame women… you cannot blame other males… you cannot blame “society”…. you only blame YOURSELF….

    everything is the man’s fault…
    was he born to deal with all this… was he ever thought… is he strong enough…

    no one gives a fk….
    he is a man…. he is guilty… sooner of later he ends up in jail…
    because that is were all guilty men end up…
    society don’t want them… no one wants them…

    your dad never wanted to leave you… and is not your fault…
    in his eyes he is a useless pathetic piece of crap… he is convinced of this… you are better without him…

    he may be aggressive and proud next to you and never ever tell you that… he may say that he did not care… or whatever bull he may come up…. he may be silent… he will never say it… he will never admit it…

    this is how a man reacts…. you can say is sick… or you can understand it…

    if you want your dad back, never ask him “why?”…
    just stay with him and talk about weather.. visit him and talk about your life…

    do not ever blame him… he already did this to himself because of blame… not because of you… but because he blames itself…

  61. After you told men to “get sensitive” and “show their feelings”…
    now you are “sick of their feelings”?

    really?
    sorry, but you will have to get use to it….
    because men, are learning from feminists… to show and express their feelings…

    and they just started…
    the future is bright… for men

    there is nothing wrong for a man to show its feelings…
    a feminist once told us that….

    yes is exhausting to read about others feelings…
    we know…. we do it all the time….

    welcome to the new world
    where your problems are not the only problems on the planet
    get use to it…. really really good

    and say a big thanks to feminists they sure make this their main agenda

    and yes, if a woman is not guilty of anything because “society”…

    then guess what…. neither a man….

    and yes, I do believe that men need to openly talk and show their feelings

    not because feminists, but because it is a smart thing to do

  62. Oh, FFS, I need to get to work but this is too ridiculous.

    OK, “Cock” (just lovely, BTW/sarcasm) please point out anywhere where anyone here has said that men aren’t allowed to be open with their feelings. Please point that out.

    Second, yeah, when those feelings men are sharing are anger from aggrieved entitlement because women aren’t sexual objects that are bestowed upon them for being Nice Guys(tm), or women are no longer doormats, or women are no longer unpaid domestic servants, or women are actually getting educations and jobs and supporting themselves, or women aren’t bending over backwards to kiss mens asses? Then yeah, you’re going to get some pushback from that.

    Third, men’s feelings have always been privileged over women’s. Women have been expected to be the caring, nurturing ones who provided a “safe haven” for men to come home to. Nevermind what the women were feeling. Women are socialized and expected to put the feelings of others over their own needs. Now, thanks to feminism, women are starting to throw off that dynamic. Don’t like that? Don’t like that women aren’t your emotional doormat anymore?

    Lastly, WTF? You go on and on about how men aren’t allowed to express their feelings and how much pain men are in, and then you tell daughters not to try to establish an emotional connection with their fathers? Just talk about the weather and don’t bother him with all that emotional stuff? Seriously?

  63. The trouble with Cocks/Dicks like you is that you never take responsibility for your own actions or choices in life but instead run away from them leaving your families behind to cope with the fall out and then expect your daughters to visit you but please, horror of horrors, don’t talk about what a loser I am. Let’s talk about the weather instead. What weak men you are. Can’t face up to what you’ve done or the situations you find yourselves in. In fact you don’t even seem to want to change your life for the better or in a more positive way but instead prefer to take the easiest route and walk away feeling nothing but enormous pity for yourselves. It’s pathetic.

  64. Hold on, I need to get this out: ELLIPSES ARE NOT FUCKING PERIODS.

    Dear divines above, it was like listening to someone who’s out of breath talk. And talk. AND TALK. Breathe, goddamnit!

    they avoid their own because they feel worthless… a common cause most men abandon their families… they feel they are useless… they just go away…

    Funny thing, my biological father abandoned my mother and I because I didn’t have a penis. Yeah, he sure must have felt useless about me not having a penis so he could give me his name.

    yes is exhausting to read about others feelings…
    we know…. we do it all the time….

    Reading and actually paying attention are two different things, Cock.

    Complaining about having to listen to women’s “feelings” and actually paying attention to what they’re having feelings about are also two different things.

    welcome to the new world
    where your problems are not the only problems on the planet
    get use to it

    We’ve been used to it. We still have to listen to men winge about not getting the proper amount of blowies from virgins.

    Men have been allowed to complain about everything from day fucking one. Women have just now been voicing their own opinions as well. See, where this little “analogy” of yours falls to pieces is exactly where Sparky says it does: Women have always been conditioned to put the happiness and feelings of others before their own, especially if the person in question is male.

    Your baseline for comparison here is silence on behalf of women. You’re saying that women talk too much, and men should have a turn to speak. No one’s disagreeing that men should have a turn to speak, but you’ve had the microphone in your hands the majority of the time.

    Also, as Sparky said, no one here said men didn’t have problems or weren’t allowed to have feelings and open up about either of those.

    Seriously, we’re well aware men have problems too. But a lot of men’s problems come from the exact same place women’s problems do: The idea that everything feminine is bad, A.K.A. The Patriarchy.

    Women didn’t cause you problems, men did.

  65. he may be aggressive and proud next to you and never ever tell you that… he may say that he did not care… or whatever bull he may come up…. he may be silent… he will never say it… he will never admit it…

    this is how a man reacts…. you can say is sick… or you can understand it…

    if you want your dad back, never ask him “why?”…
    just stay with him and talk about weather.. visit him and talk about your life…

    You DO realize that one of the problems feminism wishes to address about toxic masculinity is this right here, right? The idea that men shouldn’t ever open up about their emotions or problems because it’s seen as “weak”?

    Facing your fucking problems and attempting to fix them isn’t “weak”, it’s something that needs to be done if you truly want things to be better. You have to stand up and be strong for your family. If you turned away from them in a moment of weakness, then fucking say so. Don’t bottle that shit up until it explodes. That’s a super unhealthy thing to do, and it’s one of the things society teaches men to do. It’s bullshit.

    Don’t tell your daughters they’re not allowed to ask why you abandoned them because you’re too scared to talk to them. They deserve to know. They’re in pain too. They have to live with the idea that they were abandoned.

    Do you have any idea what that’s like for a young girl? To know her father abandoned her? To see other girls with their fathers and wonder why she can’t have that too? To wonder why she wasn’t good enough for her father?

    I’ve been there, and it’s fucking hell. If I ever did meet my biological father face-to-face, you’d better believe I’d ask him “why”.

  66. Slight necro, but I just wanted to say that I actually do have a feminist friend named Katie.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 15,818 other followers

%d bloggers like this: