PR for the MRM
The scribbled-out face of the Men's Rights Movement
Sometimes MRAs are infuriating; sometimes they are hilarious. And once in a long, long while they are simply adorable. Consider xavan512 (not his real name), a Redditor who thinks it’s high time that MRAs launched a PR campaign to defend themselves against the mean things said about them by “radical feminist blog’s or other ignorant people” who think that:
“Oh those MRA’s just need to get laid” “They are a bunch of lonely neckbeards” “They are just bitter” “They are probably forever alone’s” “They hate women” “Misogynists” ect.
Basically they are trying to make our concerns appear illegitimate because we must be whiny losers. Or because we “hate” women since we don’t adhere to the feminist dogma.
Ok, you say, so far he’s just being sort of irritating. But here is where the “adorable” part comes in. You see, whenever feminist meanies suggest that MRAs are woman-hating losers, xavan512 proposes, MRAs should respond with “hard evidence” to counter this perception. No, not penis pictures. Something even better: pictures of themselves with actual, smiling girlfriends.
Xavan512 started by posting the picture in the top right. Yep, that’s xavan512 and his actual girlfriend, standing in a field, dressed to the nines (or at least the high sixes or sevens). He’s looking dapper in his suit, accented with a bold red tie, and she of course looks lovely in a totally cute dress with an utterly adorable tiny pink purse. I’m not sure if they’re on their way to a prom, or a wedding, of if they just like posing in outdoor settings.
By the way – I didn’t scribble over the faces on the picture. Xavan512 did that himself, because, he insists, “being publicly MRA is socially taboo.”
After posting this photo, which proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that xavan512 thinks highly enough of at least one human female that he is willing to stand next to her long enough to get a picture taken, this newly self-appointed MR PR guru urged his fellow MRAs “to post a picture of yourself or mention if you have a girlfriend/wife.”
Alas, xavan512’s plan met a certain degree of resistance from fellow Reddit MRAs.
OThomson complained:
Why post a picture of ourselves with our girlfriends, we do not need the Validation of a Women to make our cause just, i’ll freely admit i’m single and looking for the right person because looking for non-crazy, non-privileged, non-annoyance is a genuine trouble these days, i don’t resent Women for that (Ok i slightly resent their position as sexual selectors for our species because it gives them so much power over men) but on the whole i’m an MRA because i want to defend my rights and the rights of all Men.
Francomaistre was even more cutting in his criticism:
I’m sure you propose this with the best of intentions, but I’m with OThomson on this. Trying to engineer some kind of phoney boloney PR campaign with cherry picked images of smiling couples professionally photographed in semi-formal dress in pastoral settings seems like a pretty dramatic mischaracterization of many MRA’s experiences and subtly subverts the movement and concerns that drives many of us to be MRA’s in the first place.
Maybe it’s a separation or divorce situation, maybe we’ve been subject to a false rape or domestic violence accusation, maybe we’re sick of being stereotyped by the media as dim-witted psycho-violent timebombs just waiting to be tripped, or are just generally sick of being treated by second-class citizens by “empowered women” who can judge our sexuality, shame us, and even inflict physical violence on us almost entirely without consequence.
Someone woke up cranky today!
Here’s the thing: the adorableness of xavan512’s picture aside, if MRAs are tired of people calling them misogynists, there’s a much more direct way to challenge this perception – and that is to challenge the rampant misogyny in the MRM. You want examples? Check the archives here. I’m kind of a lazy bastard, and I don’t like doing any more research than I have to, yet over the relatively brief lifetime of this blog I’ve managed to post literally hundreds of pretty outrageous examples of misogyny from the mouths of (or, rather, the keyboards of) MRAs. And that’s only scratching the surface. I don’t read every MRA blog every day. And I only post a tiny, tiny fraction of the misogyny I run across. It is everywhere in the MRM.
If you’re an MRA, and you’re NOT a flaming misogynist, and you want your issues to be taken seriously, don’t post pictures of yourself with your smiling girlfriend. Challenge the misogyny that surrounds you. Get together with other MRAs, and drum the misogynists out of the movement. Build bridges with feminists working on men’s rights issues. Just say no to the douchebags.
My absolutely, positively last post on that atheist elevator thing.
Going down fast.
You know, sometimes it takes a real man to put things into perspective. So it’s good that we have soMENi over on the MGTOWforums to set us all straight on the real lesson to be drawn from that whole atheist elevator controversy:
Considering MEN invented elevators and the electricity to power them, women should avoid MEN’s elevators and use a fucking rope instead to ascend to their rooms.
Oops! Men invented rope too. Oh well, flap your arms b!tch. Doing that might reduce all that excess energy going to your moaning mouth.
And … cut.
That’s a wrap.
There’s nothing more to say.
No more atheist elevator posts for me.
Atheist Elevator Redux, Part Deux: The Return of the Nice Guy
You wouldn't want him propositioning you on an elevator at 4 AM either.
So now it’s all about the “nice guys.” It’s not just that mean, mean Rebecca Watson slandered the good name of all men in the world by suggesting that one amongst their number had committed a somewhat creepy act in an elevator at 4 AM. Now some commenters are accusing her of something like a hate crime against the Nice Guys of the world.
According to cranky sometime-Men’s Rights blogger The Damned Olde Man, the woman he refers to only as “Rude Elevator Bitch” has publicly humiliated a man whose only crime was that he was a little bit shy. Embroidering liberally on the scant few facts we know about the case, Olde Man sets forth a brand new narrative of the incident — based largely on his own imagination –with the mysterious man at the center of the story now transformed into a sweet, awkward fellow he calls Nice Elevator Guy:
By all accounts, NEG appears to be a rather shy, somewhat unconfident nerd or geek who appears to be lacking in the social graces.
When Olde says “by all accounts” he actually means “by no accounts.” We have no idea what sort of personality this fellow has, only that he apparently propositioned Walker in an elevator in Dublin at 4 AM.
It was probably not a good idea to ask REB for coffee just after she finished a lecture on how she is offended by men who sexualize her, especially late at night in an isolated elevator. That would be her point of view which she and all of her supporters have stated quite eloquently. So if one only accounts for REB’s feelings, it was the wrong thing to do. But how about looking at the situation from NEG’s point of view?
That is, from the imaginary point of view of the imaginary character Olde has simply superimposed on a real man we know almost nothing about.
A shy, socially awkward nerd who lacks confidence is likely to feel uncomfortable in any situation where he intends to proposition a woman. But he is likely to be terrified of doing it in a public setting with plenty of people around to witness his humiliation when she turns him down. So from his point of view, an isolated elevator in the middle of the night is probably the ideal location, especially since he was probably never going to have this opportunity again.
Note to shy guys of the world: this is not a good idea. It’s not going to work out well for you.
I’m not quite sure if that’s necessary. I’m a shy guy, and I’m pretty sure most of us shy guys already know that propositioning a woman when the two of you are alone in an confined space is a bad idea. Many of us who sometimes feel awkward in social settings have what is known as “empathy” towards other people and thus are aware when something we do might just make someone else feel awkward. Olde Man continues:
His fear of humiliation is probably not as irrational as her fear of rape and in hindsight, it was definitely more justified. He didn’t rape her, she did reject him. She not only rejected him, she humiliated him, publically, for all the world to see.
Yeah. She “publicly” humiliated a guy she never named. According to a guy who has just written a long post in which he repeatedly refers to her — a blogger who posts under her real name — as a “bitch.”
It’s bad enough to read this bullshit in MRA blogs, where it’s irritating but hardly surprising.
It’s a bit more troubling to find much of this dumb argument repeated – in somewhat more polite language, admittedly – in Psychology Today. In a post entitled “What’s a Shy, Geeky, Nice Guy to Do?” cognitive psychologist Scott Barry Kaufman offers a very similar version of events, in which
a nervous, presumably geeky, socially awkward guy gets on [the elevator] ]with her … [his] heart probably beating fast and palms sweety as heck … .
“Presumably,” “probably” – in other words, these details are simply invented.
While Kaufman acknowledges that the mysterious (alleged) Nice Guy’s approach was “lame,” he, like Olde Man, turns the story into one in which Nice Guys are the real victims:
many entitled, narcissistic males have commented to the effect “what an ungrateful bitch, she should be grateful for being complimented!”, and quite a few feminists have commented “good for Rebecca for scolding men, they need to be put in their place!” All the while, shy, geeky, genuinely nice guys have sat there, reading these extreme comments, no doubt scratching their heads and wondering what in the world they are to do.
What is a shy, geeky, nice guy to do?
Then Kaufman gives some advice on how the Nice Elevator Guy could have handled the attempted pick-up better:
Don’t be creepy. Asking a girl to your hotel room in an elevator at 4 in the morning when the girl has already announced she is tired shows very poor mating intelligence. …
Well, yeah. He continues:
Look for indicators of interest. Any dating coach will tell you how important it is to look for signals of interest. Pay attention to her state. Does she look exhausted?
Generally speaking, when a woman gives a talk about how she hates being hit on at atheist conferences, then later announces that she’s tired and wants to go to bed, these are what you might call “Indicators of Leave Me the Fuck Alone.”
Kaufman goes on:
Does she cringe when you start talking? That’s probably not the right time to put your arm around her.
Can’t argue with that one, really. Cringing: never a good sign.
Kaufman barrels ahead with this mixture of the obvious and the creepy:
Build some sort of rapport first. The guy in the elevator was a complete stranger. There was zero connection. What could the guy have done to increase his chances of receptivity in this particular situation, when she clearly was not in the mood? It’s hard to imagine he could have done anything, but at the very least he could have tried to make some sort of connection.
Or, here’s a radical notion: he could have just LEFT HER ALONE. This one tired lady in the elevator is not the only lady in the world. There will be other chances. Stand down, dude.
But Kaufman, who can’t leave well enough alone himself, goes on to imagine a scenario in which Nice Elevator Guy manages to charm Watson utterly.
RUPERT: Oh, hi Rebecca! I’m a huge fan of yours. I really liked your ideas earlier about skepticism…feminism…blah…blah…And I totally hear you about the guys here. They really are creepy, aren’t they? [Insert witty joke here about how if you were a female at this conference you'd become a lifelong skeptic of geeky men]
WATSON: [Laughs] Yea, thanks for understanding. You were really listening to what I said earlier. What do you research?
Ungghhhh. Excuse me, but I have to go lie down for a moment. The stupid here is too much.
After a bit more of this imagined witty banter, the charmed WATSON is inviting HIM to HER room!
It was at this point that I discovered that there was another whole page worth of this shit. I couldn’t bring myself to read it.
Atheist Elevator Redux
Found on the Men's Rights subreddit on Reddit
Here, found on Men’s Rights Reddit, is a “demotivational” poster that illustrates just why Rebecca Watson’s comments about that now-famous elevator incident, and the ensuing discussions that erupted amongst feminists online (and here, in our longest thread ever), were actually, you know, necessary: whoever made this evidently thinks that the very notion that a RAPIST would ask someone out for coffee first is so inherently and self-evidently hilarious that you don’t even have to explain why it’s so hilarious.
Never mind that, er, rapists often DO invite their future victims out for coffee, to the movies, out for a kebab, etc, etc first. Never mind that if some hypothetical woman had accepted a 4 AM “coffee in my room” invite and been raped, many of the very same guys now ranting about how she’s calling all men rapists would be blaming her for being a “slut” who “was asking for it” by agreeing to said “coffee” date.
(And I’ll just note that Watson did not in fact accuse her admirer in the elevator of being a rapist or even a creep; she simply mentioned that propositioning someone in an elevator at 4 AM is a creepy thing to do.)
And yes, that is Richard Dawkins in the picture. I’m not sure why someone who presumably agrees with what Dawkins said about the case would want to feature him in a poster next to the word “rapists,” but what do I know? In any case, Dawkins is now being hailed as a hero by more than a few of the regulars in the Men’s Rights subreddit — not for his scientific work, or his science writings, or even his atheist activism, but for his douchebaggery towards Watson. The Flying Spaghetti Monster works in mysterious ways, I guess.
Speaking of which — the mysterious ways thing, I mean — can anyone explain the logic behind this comment to me?
Specifically, could you explain the bit about “smack[ing] the shit out of” feminists who’ve stood up for Rebecca Watson? It seems to me that if you’re trying to make the point that Watson and her supporters are reacting hysterically to an innocent invitation to coffee, and that women have no reason to be fearful or concerned or even just mildly creeped out by men propositioning them in elevators at 4 am, it does not exactly help your case to talk about doing physical harm to feminists (or children, for that matter). Doesn’t that suggest, rather, that women should be concerned about strange men in elevators — because of the off chance that one of these strange men could turn out to be, you know, the sort of dude who posts shit like that on the internet?
Sunday Afternoon (here in the Americas, anyway) Cartoons: SomeGreyBloke becomes an MRA
Courtesy of SomeGreyBloke, here’s a cartoon depicting one man’s — well, more specifically, one grey bloke’s — moment of Man-lightenment! And ladies, if you find yourself irresistibly drawn to this grey man with the yellow teeth, you’ll be pleased to know that he’s single!
Female troubles
Truly, they is.
JayJet of Happy Bachelors has a few wise words for men who think it’s even possible to have a “friendship” with a female of the species:
The reason friendships are so tough to maintain with women is that women are conditioned to “use” you. Meaning, if they don’t see you as a romantic partner, they will consider you platonic-friend/cuddle-bitch/money-tool/emotional tampon so you can meet their needs at your expense. …
You’re better off not having friendships with women for these reasons. Your purpose for being with a female is simple: Sex. I’m sorry but anything beyond that is a road filled with pain.
But it could be worse. They could be alien females. And we all know what they do.
That’s right. They inhale your gonads. And not in a sexy way, either.
Let’s let Eddie Murphy explain, in this clip from Bowfinger (which for some reason won’t embed here properly).
Ok, now it’s REALLY alive! The new improved Man Boobz Forum is up!
Click on me to go to the Man Boobz Forum!
Ok, folks, the Man Boobz Forum is now REALLY up, and on a platform that I think will be better than the one I originally chose. It’s got more options (for me and for you all), looks a bit sleeker, and doesn’t force your gender into a box! Go here! Register! Post!
If you registered and/or posted on the original forum, up briefly earlier today, sorry! There’s no way to transfer your registration or comments over to the new forum , so you’ll have to register again. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience but I think the benefits of the new platform will more than make up for it.
Thanks Ami, for advice and help in setting up the new forum. And thanks, Sarah, for seeding the old forum with some great topics. I’m going to transfer those posts over myself.
See you there!
Rape: Not particularly hilarious
Things that aren't funny: 1) This guy 2) Rape
Rape jokes, not made of comedy gold. The San Diego Reader – attempting, rather ineptly, to channel The Onion – recently ran a bit of “almost factual news” about the recent Slutwalks. The title: “Slut Walk Devolves into Rape Run.”
Here’s the lede (as they say in the biz):
It was supposed to be a triumph for women eager to reclaim their sexuality from the threat of sexual violence. But sadly, Slut Walk San Diego went horribly awry as some 50 men, many of whom claimed to be unable to control their animal urges when presented with such a plenitude of hot female flesh, plunged into the crowd of over 2000 sluts in a quest for sexual gratification, consensual or otherwise. Dozens of arrests have been made, and police say it may be weeks before all the snatched panties have been returned to their rightful owners.
See, it’s funny because they were being raped!
Amazingly, the one comment that this lovely article managed to inspire was even less hilarious than the article itself. According to someone calling himself a86d:
Its bs like this that is further going drive culture to FURTHER feminize men and go back to that process of thinking that a man needs to be controlled because hes just a beast. BS we’re not animals, We’ve evolved and people need consequences….in this case …. BURN em. The Dilbert comic writer seems to think that all men need to be castrated because we can’t control our urges, because society forces us men to be a round peg in a square hole…..if you want to live a certain life style….you can find it. Own up, be mature, respectful and if you cross the line EXPECT TO BURN!
I’m not quite sure if all that BURNing is supposed to be directed at rapists or sluts. I’m guessing the latter, but in either case I don’t think I’ll be inviting a86d to my next barbecue.
Man Boobz Mad Libs #1: Love is a battlefield
Chicago New Wave pioneers Phil 'n' the Blanks (pictured above) want you to FILL IN the blanks.
Last night, 540-or-so comments into the Atheist Elevator thread, Ion took a moment to school us all in the cold, hard realities of love in our time. Offering his own formerly flailing but now highly successful sexual career as evidence of this theories, he explained why it’s better to be called creepy than courteous. And apparently, acting like a five-year old will score you heaps of hot poon. Who knew?
As much as I learned from Ion’s autobiographic account, I feel as though there is much more wisdom to be gained from reading the stories of other commenters here. So, using Ion’s tale as a template, I would like to offer the first in what I hope will be a long and successful series of Man Boobz Mad Libs. Simply fill in the blanks in the text below to tell your own tale of heartbreak and triumph, and post your results in the comments below. We will all be the wiser for it.
You know what’s funny? You try to come off as [ ] and [ ], but in fact, I actually used to think like you when I was younger and [ ]. I bought into all the “men are [ ], men are natural [ ]” crap spouted by feminist [ ] and their neutered mangina [ ]. I was concerned about not coming off as [ ] or creepy. I was courteous and [ ] and [ ], I respected women, but I forgot to respect [ ]. And while the [ ] boys, playa gangstas, and abusive [ ]bags were [ ]ing around town with an “I take what I want” attitude and a new [ ] on their [ ] every week, I was hearing “Wow, you’re a great [ ], but I like you as a [ ]. Well, see you later, gotta go have [ ] with the [ ] boyfriend I’ve been complaining to [ ] about!”
So you’re right about the [ ]-puffing part, but not so much about the being [ ]. I’m less [ ] now than I ever was. I put myself [ ]. I don’t apologize for being a [ ]. It took me a while to [ ] up, but I did. And let me tell you, things are better than [ ]. I got my first [ ] after acting ‘inappropriate’ and going for a [ ] the night we first met. A day later, she was the one would wouldn’t [ ] me [ ]. So much for “[ ] give in because of [ ] pressures”, I guess. Second [ ], in college, I [ ] like a five-year old [ ]. Totally out of character, even I was ashamed of my [ ]. Afterwards, she was [ ] me to hang out. Sometime later, I met [ ] I really [ ]. Like an [ ], I decided to play it cool, be [ ], be [ ], take [ ] slowly. Guess what? Zero interest. Learned my lesson then and haven’t [ ] back. As for “friends who will [ ] me”… I don’t know what the [ ] are like where you live, but the [ ] I know just don’t fit your [ ] [ ]. Also, currently half my friends are [ ]. Weird, huh. But uh, keep telling yourself you’re so much better for being a neutered [ ]. I’ll be busy having [ ] in the [ ] world meanwhile.
It’s ALIVE! The Man Boobz Forum, that is.
Jul 8
Posted by David Futrelle
BREAKING NEWS: Because of the gender issue and other issues people have raised with proboards, I will be moving the forum to another platform, probably phpBB. Just give me a few hours! I’ve locked the proboards forum down in the meantime. Post below with any thoughts and/or advice.
You asked for it – well, a majority of those who took the poll did. You got it! The Man Boobz Forum is open for business. Right here, right now.
I hope the discussions here on the blog will remain long and spirited and sprawly, but now you guys have a place to go to discuss, well, whatever you want to discuss, actually (within the limits of the forum’s comments policy, which you should all read). Raise you own issues, link to Man Booby stuff, link to off-topic stuff, link to your own blog, talk about books, talk about Magyck the Gendering cards, plan get-togethers, you name it. One bit of warning: I’m going to try to keep discussions on the forum a little more civilized than they tend to be here on the blog; this means I will be more stringent about the commenting rules and much quicker to ban offenders, temporarily or permanently.
I encourage everyone who regularly comments here (and who wants to post on the forum) to register there using the same nickname you use here. Also, please post a comment here after I approve you (just to verify that it’s really you behind both accounts). If you’re a regular commenter here and you’re interested in being a moderator of the forum, let me know.
Note on gender: Not everyone here identifies themselves as male or female. Unfortunately, proboards requires you to check either “male” or “female” when registering. The good news, for those who don’t fit the gender binary or who simply don’t want people to know what gender they are, is that you don’t have to display your gender in your profile or posts. (Go to your profile, and click “modify profile” and you’ll find a way to “hide” your gender as well as other ways to customize your profile.)
Post any feedback you have about the forum here or on the forum itself.
And enjoy!
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