Category Archives: domestic violence

New Men’s Rights Issue: Women attacking men while giving birth

Is this man in grave danger?

Is this man putting his life in grave danger?

Is there no end to the ways in which women oppress the men of the world? Over on A Voice for Men, Clint Carpentier reports – and I use that term loosely – on a heretofore overlooked form of anti-male oppression: the abuse of fathers in delivery rooms by women who are at that moment literally in the stirrups giving birth.

Yep, we’re talking about women who use 12 hours of labor as a convenient excuse to yell at, and sometimes scratch and bite, their husbands and boyfriends. Apparently, there’s an epidemic of women in labor cruelly attacking men from the comfort and safety of the delivery table.

Carpentier starts off his post by making clear that giving birth isn’t really the big freaking deal all the ladies think it is, anyway:

Giving birth is an amazing feat of zero skill, and it still amazes me. It amazes me that this is the epitome, the pinnacle, the supposed female trump card to all male accomplishments. A man lands on the moon with analogue technology and proves Galileo’s theory of air resistance, but never mind that, another woman gave birth, just as well as any other female animal on the planet. A man creates life in a petri-dish, but never mind that, some broad stole his sperm and created life herself.

Anyway, I’m not knocking the dangers of labor, men know all about the dangers of labor; there really ought to be a better word for giving birth.

And whatever alleged pain women undergo during so-called “labor” apparently pales in insignificance to the pain men suffer from being in their presence in the delivery room. Carpentier has managed to avoid this terrible fate himself – his wife went the c-section route, no biggie – but he has heard tales that would make your skin crawl:

I have … heard stories, have … seen the scratches and bite marks, on the fathers who braved the maternity ward. And these same brave men praise the bravery of the mothers of their children. They proudly display scars the mothers-to-be inflicted upon them during the ordeal.

I’m hoping these scars are only from fingernails and that mothers-to-be aren’t sneaking shivs into the delivery room.

Oh, also, sometimes women in labor yell really loudly:

Sometimes a father will reminisce amusingly about how he’d been temporarily deafened when she had screamed right in his ear for waxing sympathetically over her tribulations.

And apparently it’s only men who are the targets for this scratching and biting and yelling:

I hear these stories only from men. I know, men aren’t the only people comforting these women during birth; some women don’t have a man at the time. But what I don’t hear, are these stories from the female nurses, friends, mothers, sisters, etc, who are there to console and coach these single mothers-to-be. Why is it, I’m only hearing accounts of weathering physical abuse and injury from the fathers?

I don’t know, dude. Do you hang out with female nurses on a regular basis? Do you spend as much time drinking beer and shooting the shit with your wife’s female friends as you do with your own?

You see, if I am correct, and it is only fathers who suffer this abuse, then delivery of such injury is selective. I can see no call for it.

Really? First of all, you haven’t shown that this is abuse and not simply an accident. Second, how many of these female friends, mothers, sisters, what have you, were actually in the delivery room? Because that seems like an important variable to take into consideration before jumping to conclusions based on a dataset of some-dudes-allegedly-told-you-something-once.

In fact, fathers-to-be should avoid the maternity ward altogether, as they are obviously not welcome.

Really again? You imagine an epidemic of anti-male violence by women giving birth based on a couple of stories and a rather half-assed deduction you’ve made from it, and therefore conclude that 1) men should miss out on the birth of their children and 2) shouldn’t be there to comfort their wives as best they can during labor.

If birthing is license to mistreat, abuse, or injure a father in the witness of medical professionals, then what deterrent exists, preventing continued abuse in private? And for that matter, what indication is there that she doesn’t abuse him already?

Woah. Let’s just back up a little here. First of all, dude, you haven’t proven that “abuse of fathers” by women on the delivery table is actually a thing. You’ve offered only a few vague anecdotes – and these anecdotes don’t even make clear whether or not the alleged “ delivery of … injury” – gotta love that evasive wording – was deliberate.

Given the stress and pain of labor, it’s easy to imagine how a woman giving birth might accidentally scratch someone. Maybe the mother in question was holding onto her husband’s hand for support and dug her fingernails in a little too hard and left a mark. Maybe she flailed her arm backwards and accidentally scratched his face. We don’t know, because not only do you offer zero real evidence for any of your claims, but your second-hand stories don’t offer enough detail to know what was going on.

If endangering your own life once or twice provides license to abuse a man, what does that say about our society. Particularly when he endangers his own life as a matter of routine to support you?

Seriously? I know Men’s Righsters love to complain about the fact that many more men than women die on the job – though this complaining never seems to lead to any actual activism on the issue of workplace safety – but the fact is that most men, in the US at least, DO NOT WORK DANGEROUS JOBS. They don’t endanger their own lives “as a matter of routine.” They don’t endanger their lives at all by going to work, at least not any more than women do.

MRAs love to give themselves credit for bravery because they share a gender with a small number of men who do in fact work dangerous jobs. But I’m guessing there are not a lot of lion tamers amongst the Men’s Rights crowd. Somehow I’m thinking that most of them have jobs that mostly involve sitting on their asses in rooms entirely devoid of lions.

Anyway, if the overwhelming majority of men don’t endanger their lives by going to work, they endanger it even less by “braving” the delivery room. Men face no actual physical threat from women who are literally flat on their back, their feet in stirrups, in the process of pushing an entire human being out through their vaginas.

But, hey, women do sometimes yell rude things during labor, so maybe it’s possible that a few of them do scratch or even bite their husbands, though the latter seems like it might be a tad difficult logistically. Some might even do so on purpose. If so, there would probably be some evidence of this somewhere online, right?

Well, I searched for a while using every combination of search words I could think of. I found an assortment of disturbing headlines about men attacking women in and around maternity wards: Guilty: man who punched and kicked pregnant girlfriend outside Poole Maternity Hospital; Man charged with assaulting pregnant girlfriend, staff in hospital maternity ward; Man Throws Meat Cleaver Into Maternity Ward.

I found disturbing statistics about pregnancy and domestic violence, which often begins or increases during pregnancy; according to one 2000 study, some 324,000 pregnant women are abused each year.

On a somewhat lighter note, I found women wondering if it was normal to have a really itchy stomach after giving birth, and another person wondering “why is my bitch digging so much after giving birth[?]” (Don’t worry; they were talking about a dog.)

Amidst all this – and many hundreds of other irrelevant results – I managed to find one example of a woman scratching a man during childbirth.

On a page in which she provided all the gory details of her 28 hours of labor – along with numerous pictures of her newborn – one new mother also posted a couple of pictures documenting the scratches she’d given her husband while in labor. (I’m not giving out the link because MRAs. )

Brace yourself. Here’s one of the pictures, with the father’s face partially blurred out:

New father displays scratches his wife gave him during her 28 hours of labor

New father displays scratches his wife gave him during her 28 hours of labor

If you look very carefully you can see four faint scratches on his forearm. The blogger isn’t a native English speaker, but as far as I can tell from what she wrote about it, she didn’t give these terrible scratches to him on purpose.

The horror!

 

 

 

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Red Pill Theorist: Women are like children. Except you can have sex with them.

This Morpheus dude may have a point.

This Morpheus dude may have a point.

Put on your thinking caps today, because we are going to wade into the highly rarefied world of Red Pill Theory. Our Guest Lecturer today is a totally ALPHA DOG Red Pill Redditor by the name of GayLubeOil — don’t worry, fellas, he’s straight! — who has some important insights for us all on the nature of women.

Namely, that women are basically just overgrown children. Who give blow jobs.

Let’s let him explain, in a post that’s now Number One With A Sticky in the Red Pill Subreddit.

Treating Women Like Children (self.TheRedPill) submitted 8 hours ago by Endorsed ContributorGayLubeOil - stickied post One of the key tenants of Red Pill is that women act like children. There are many reasons for this. Women are not held accountable for their actions growing up, so they are completely new to the concept of accountability. If a woman sucks a dick, she tells a realy long story about how she was put in a dick sucking situation. Women don't realy believe in their own agency. That's why they often believe in cosmic forces like fate and patriarchy, because nothing they ever do is their fault. If women don't take responsibility for their actions, someone else has to. That's why we have to treat women like children. Obviously, some woman is going to read this have a cascade of feels and then deal with said feels in the most immature way possible.  While Red Pill theory has definitely harsh view of women, the practical application isn't as anti-social as our detractors believe.  One of the things that children suck at, is regulating their internal state. They're too little to know if their hungry, sleepy or if they need to go for a walk. When a child throws a tantrum its often not about the toy, there is often some underlying issue you need to take care of.  As stupid as its sounds you can completely avoid a lot of arguments by ignoring everything she says and going for the underlying problem. I cant believe you never told me that you X! Aww is she hungry. She gets this way when shes hungry. Then just feed her some Greek yogurt or something, and the problem will go away. Or just take her for a walk around the block, because shes just anxious from being at work the entire day.  Red Pill holds that male leadership is the cornerstone of a good relationship. Sometimes that means treating her like a child.

After reading all of that, you may have a few questions. Obviously, the most important question is: why Greek Yogurt? Well, in addition to being very popular with the ladies, it is apparently quite high in iron. Let’s let Professor LubeOil explain why that’s so crucial:

GayLubeOil[S] 44 points 7 hours ago* The reason I used Greek Yogurt as an example is that its high in Iron. A surprising number of women are anemic which means they bruise easily. Its obviusly not your fault that she cant get enough nutrients into her body. However You don't want to be seen walking around with a bruised woman. Which is why GayLubeOil recommends feeding your anemic woman Greek Yogurt mixed with pomegranate so you don't look like an abusive asshole. If you are an abusive asshole yogurt and pomegranate will not fix or prevent hemotoma. Sorry abusive assholes.  permalinkparentgive gold [–]Knoxhon_ 8 points 5 hours ago Sorry abusive assholes.  lmfao
Well, with that critical issue taken care of in a totally not creepy or red-flaggy kind of way, let’s move on to some of the serious discussion Professsor LubeOil’s thesis inspired in the Red Pill Subreddit.

Ah, who am I kidding? They mainly just posted comments about how totally right he was and how women totally are a bunch of overgrown children. But saying women are children is totes not misogyny!

Usherai 39 points 7 hours ago For all the accusations of misogyny thrown at TRP, I don't think most guys, even here, go far enough. Women are exactly like children in that without strong male leadership they will ruin themselves by being slaves to their emotions and short-sightedness. Their inability to take responsibility for themselves means that men need to be the ones directing, influencing, and manipulating their emotions into beneficial behaviors and pursuits.  This means that the mindset RP men should have in their relationships with women is one of complete and utter superiority. Your analysis and suggestions are pretty spot on.
And, heck, even if a dude maybe is a teensy bit of a misogynist, what’s the big deal, so long as it convinces him to treat his women properly — that is, like you would treat special needs children.

GayLubeOil[S] 41 points 7 hours ago Even if someone is a blatant misogynist and thinks women are completely inferior to men, that doesn't necessarily translate into him treating women poorly. Lets say you had a special needs child . The kids obviously intellectually inferior, to you and his peers. You knowing this doesn't make you an asshole. Knowing this and admitting this is the first step in being a good parent for this kid. Yea maybe you have to wipe his mouth after he eats or pick up after him a bit more. But pretending that he is a totally normal kid is going to make you a shittier parent than admitting the truth. That's why you should do what men have done for most of human history:treat women like women instead of pretending that they are men with breasts.  permalinkparentgive gold [–]Knoxhon_ 14 points 5 hours ago misogyny isn't about superior/inferior. it's about a hatred of women as a group. this is a common misconception.  permalinkparentgive gold [–]Endorsed ContributorDemonspawn 13 points 4 hours ago But so much of the population has equality disease: thinking someone isn't equal must be coming from hate... because they are equal, don'tchaknow!

Damn those feminazis and their “equality!” Why, it’s almost un-American!

Attention-seeking manosphere douchebag offers how-to guide for abusive boyfriends

Not the model for a happy and successful relationship

Not the model for a happy and successful relationship

Apparently hoping to gin up another flood of hate-traffic to his blog, the attention-seeking human stain whose name rhymes with Batt Gorney has posted what is essentially a how-to guide for would-be abusive boyfriends under the charming title “How to Crush a Girl’s Self-Esteem.”

“Gorney” has conveniently arranged his suggestions into a numbered list, so let’s proceed through them one by one. (If you’re triggered by explicit discussions of psychological and physical abuse, please stop reading now.)

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A Voice for Men boldly opposes respect for women

Hardly a controversial message, you wouldn't think.

Hardly a controversial message, you wouldn’t think.

If you live in New York state, you may have seen the poster above plastered on a bus shelter; or you may have seen it posted somewhere on the internet. The message is pretty simple, and it’s sad that it has to be said: kids are pretty impressionable, so teach your sons to treat women with basic respect.

The purpose of the ad campaign, sponsored by the New York state Office for the Prevention of Domestic Violence, is pretty clear as well: teaching boys respect for women lessens the chances that they will abuse women as adults.

Numerous studies have found that men with sexist attitudes towards women are more likely to try to control their wives or girlfriends with physical abuse. Indeed, one recent study even found that brief exposure to sexist jokes made men more inclined to brush off violence against women, at least amongst men with sexist attitudes to begin with.

Speaking of which, the sexist jokes over at A Voice for Men have unveiled a hilarious new “meme,” which just happens to be inspired by the “awaiting instructions” PSAs we’ve been discussing. And here it is:

From A Voice for Men. I've blurrred the women's faces.

From A Voice for Men. I’ve blurrred the women’s faces.

The logic here is airtight: because some women get drunk and urinate in public, women don’t deserve respect.

I guess men never get drunk and urinate in public, or ever do anything vaguely embarrassing that gets caught on camera?

Is it really asking too much to respect people as people, foibles and all?

Men Going Their Own Way blather endlessly about how women won’t shut up

Sorry, gals! You'll never be as blabby as Men Going Their Own Way

Sorry, gals! You’ll never be as blabby as Men Going Their Own Way

So the nice gentlemen over on MGTOWforums are trying to get to the bottom of what they see as a very important question: Why Can’t They Ever Shut Up?  

Unfortunately, they’re not asking this question about their fellow Men Going Their Own Way and their tendency to blather on and on about the manifold evils of women. No, they’re talking about women and their alleged inability to shut up. And they have some, well, interesting theories to share.

NonNegotiable offers these highly scientific thoughts:

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“Whilst my canteen of a d*ck wast roaming her cavern” and other bon mots from the worst short story ever written

2010-Roosevelt-Dime

I think I may have discovered the worst piece of short fiction ever written. It’s on a manosphere/pickup-artist blog called Colonel Crimson (slogan: “The Colonel of Truth”).

Here’s how it starts:

So I’m in bed with a dime and she says to me, “Willis, what are your goals in life?”

“Simple, Adime,” I respond with my larynx. “To explore the caverns of dimes throughout the world.”

And it only gets worse from there. I would quote the worst bits, but then I’d have to quote the whole thing. Pretty much everything is a worst bit.

There’s some domestic violence, some utterly horrifying descriptions of sex, a lot of mansplaining, and even a sammich joke. There’s an element of self-parody to it — or at least I hope that’s what I’m seeing there — but the author seems to actually believe all the things he’s gently satirizing. You should of course go and read the whole thing immediately.

If you’re hesitating, here’s another sample:

I remind her of her last gentleman suitor. Average height, median weight. Put the schlub in the word schlub. “Do you remember when he strapped on his kneepads and proposed marriage to you?”

“Unfortunately I do.”

“And do you have any recollection of how the beaver felt in that moment?”

“Dry.”

Oh, and in case you were wondering, a “dime” is a Hot Babe 10. Either that or the dude is having hallucinations about talking currency.

A Voice for Men writer laments: “Since the advent of ‘marital rape,’ sex is no longer a loving duty, so it has become whim and weapon.”

Caution: RIng does not transform "no" into "yes."

Caution: Ring does not transform “no” into “yes.”

Has A Voice for Men just declared itself in favor of marital rape?

In the midst of a long and otherwise fairly tedious piece complaining about wives asking their husbands to do their fair share of the chores, Clint Carpentier offers some rather startling thoughts on marital rape laws, and how he thinks they help to make marriage a losing proposition for modern men.

In the good old days, he writes, “sex was a wifely duty she was obligated to provide as per the terms of marriage.” But “since the advent of ‘marital rape,’ sex [in marriage] is no longer a loving duty, so it has become whim and weapon … .”

Yep. Apparently “being raped by your husband” is really just a way to fulfill your “loving duty” as a wife.

So, Carpentier concludes, if wives demand that you do the chores around the house, and you can’t rape them at will, what’s the point of even having one in the first place? After all, he argues, in an age of washing machines and readymade meals chores are easy, and men can get “once per day of blasé sex” from “any street-hooker” or splurge on “mind-blowing sex once a week [from] a well trained call-girl.”

And so, he writes,

If women are demanding that their husbands do their “fair share” of the chores, then why do men need wives at all? In man’s attempt to make their wives lives easier, they have reduced the wifely duties to next to non-existent. Why, women? Why oh why would you drive those final coffin nails of obsolescence in? Aside from children, there’s no benefit left to having a wife.

Well, if the only “benefits” you can see in having a wife are someone who will do the cooking and cleaning and whom you can rape at will, then, no, there is no benefit to you in having a wife now that marital rape is illegal. And there is certianly no benefit to any woman in marrying or dating or possibly even being in the same room as you.

Where have all the good men gone? Well… where have all the good women gone?

That’s right: A man who considers marital rape to be a husband’s right honestly thinks that he’s one of the good ones.

AVFM’s Paul Elam loves to rail against the evils of traditionalism and chivalry. Interesting that marital rape is one element of traditionalism he apparently has no problem with.

Men’s Rights Redditor remembers the victims of Marc Lepine by complaining “we’re all supposed to cry about how hard it is to be female. “

A vigil to honor the victims of the massacre at the Ecole Polytechnique.

A vigil to honor the victims of the massacre at the Ecole Polytechnique.

Today is the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women in Canada, an annual event to honor the victims of mass murderer Marc Lépine, who gunned down fourteen women at the  École Polytechnique in Montreal in 1989. Lepine, driven by a poisonous misogynist ideology, specifically targeted women, yelling “I hate feminists” before opening fire on one classroom of female students.

Reading over his suicide-note-cum-manifesto today, I was struck again by how, well, familiar it all sounded. While only a few MRAs have explicitly celebrated Lepine as a hero, his views on women and feminism would not be out of place on most Men’s Rights forums. Here’s Lepine, in his own words. (I’ve broken the wall of text into shorter paragraphs.)

[T]he feminists always have a talent for enraging me.

They want to retain the advantages of being women (e.g. cheaper insurance, extended maternity leave preceded by a preventive leave) while trying to grab those of the men. … They are so opportunistic that they neglect to profit from the knowledge accumulated by men throughout the ages. …

Thus, the other day, people were honoring the Canadian men and women who fought at the frontlines during the world wars. How does this sit with the fact that women were not authorized to go to the frontline at the time??? Will we hear of Caesar’s female legions and female galley slaves who of course took up 50 per cent of history’s ranks, although they never existed?

I’ve seen complaints virtually identical to these — I hesitate to call them arguments — reiterated many times over on places like A Voice for Men and the Men’s Rights subreddit.

Speaking of the Men’s Rights subreddit, here’s how the regulars there honored the victims of the massacre today: someone posted a message that today was the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women (this is actually a different day, in November), and, well, this is some of what ensued.

MRB2012 gave us the quote in my headline:

MRB2012 8 points 6 hours ago (12|4)      Her explanation included how it all started with how a bunch of people who were labeled feminist were shot.  This is a reference to the mass shooting committed by Mark Lepine. Most murder victims are actually male, but because of this one guy who targeted women we're all supposed to cry about how hard it is to be female.      permalink     source     save     give gold     hide child comments  [–]enzikio 2 points 3 hours ago (2|0)  I didn't know about Marc Lepine until your post, but it looks like his page was updated with a feminist slant with this great quote      A few men's rights activists seek to rehabilitate Lépine as hero of the anti-feminist cause.  A look at the sources are a joke. They all appear to reference a single person who apparently made some comments that agreed with what Marc Lepine did. No where do their sources rise to the evidence of the quote above.      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]muttmonster 1 point 6 hours ago (2|1)  Isn't that also the guy who yelled, "I hate feminists"?      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]darklycan51 -3 points 4 hours ago (5|8)  To be fair there's some times i've considered doing that to feminists... lol

7Vega worried that awareness about violence against women was taking up too much of everyone’s time.

7Vega 11 points 6 hours ago (14|3)  How many fucking days do we have for violence against women?      permalink     source     save     give gold     hide child comments  [–]muttmonster 6 points 6 hours ago (7|1)  Yeah, I swear we just had one, and that's why google had a black ribbon on it's page. And they also use a white ribbon for the same thing?      permalink     source     save     parent     give gold  [–]7Vega 4 points 6 hours ago (7|3)  Soon all colors will be associated with violence against women.

And JohnKimble suggested that violence against women is really all their fault anyway.

JohnKimble111 3 points 4 hours ago (3|0)  Given that most domestic violence is initiated by women and a lot of domestic violence is mutual, then the best way to stop violence against women is for them to stop assaulting their male partners.

The greatest human rights movement of the 21st century, folks.

 

A Voice for Male Students: Misquotation, Schmishquotation!

Is THIS your quotation from Marilyn French? No? Um ...

Is THIS your quotation from Marilyn French? No? Um …

Is there something about Men’s Rights Activists that renders them utterly incapable of admitting a mistake? The other day, I performed a bit of rudimentary factchecking on a collection of allegedly “misandrist” quotes assembled by  Jonathan Taylor of A Voice for Male Students.

Among other things. I pointed out that the drastically truncated version of a Marilyn French quote he posted completely misrepresented the actual meaning of what she had said, making it appear that she was charging the majority of men with killing, or beating, or raping women and/or molesting their own daughters:

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Paul Elam of A Voice for Men: In His Own Words

Paul Elam on 20/20

Paul Elam in a web-only clip from the 20/20 segment that never ran on television.

Paul Elam, the founder and primary animating force behind the website A Voice for Men, is probably, for better or worse, the most influential figure in the Men’s Rights movement (or, as he prefers to call it, the Men’s Human Rights Movement).

Elam is also a fierce misogynist with a penchant for angry, violent rhetoric full of only-slightly veiled threats. But don’t take my word for it. Perhaps the best way to get to know Mr. Elam is through his own words.

So here are some of Elam’s thoughts on a variety of issues, taken from postings on his own website.  I have linked each quote back to its source on A Voice for Men.

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