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Open Thread: The Iowapocalypse, Trump’s State of the Union, Impeachment, whatever

As usual, there’s A LOT going on.

So enjoy this open thread. No trolls.

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Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Snowberry
I agree fully. There are so many legitimate, demonstrably real things to criticize Graham for. Let’s avoid talking about him in ways that do splash damage to other groups. Saying that homophobic politicians are probably gay crossdressers doesn’t offer meaningful criticism of the person in question but are harmful to marginalized groups. I’ve seen a similar thing with liberals calling Ann Coulter “Man Coulter” and trying to say she’s a trans* woman. We can do better and take the high road.

O/T: Has anyone else noticed that Britain has a bigoted comedian named Graham Linehan and America has a bigoted politician named Lindsey Graham? This is almost certainly a coincidence, but it’s interesting to note the similar names.

Tovius
Tovius
7 months ago

@WWTH
Thank you for saying something. Conspiratorial thinking really pisses me off.

numerobis
numerobis
7 months ago

Diego Duarte: the caucus results have nothing to do with the app. There’s no possibility for it to have influenced the final results. Buttigieg is, it seems, quite popular in Iowa — about as popular as Sanders.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
7 months ago

https://twitter.com/AlxThomp/status/1225517136149458944

Oh shit.

Another recently departed staffer, also a field organizer, granted anonymity because she feared reprisal, echoed that sentiment. “I felt like a problem — like I was there to literally bring color into the space but not the knowledge and voice that comes with it,” she said in an interview.

She added: “We all were routinely silenced and not given a meaningful chance on the campaign. Complaints, comments, advice, and grievances were met with an earnest shake of the head and progressive buzzwords but not much else.” A third former field organizer who was also granted anonymity said those descriptions matched her own experience.

Oh fuck pls no not like this.

Fortunately it seems to only be isolated in Warren’s Nevada team. Hopefully she and her staff can well fix these issues. Wouldn’t want her to drop out before Joe Biden of all people.

numerobis
numerobis
7 months ago

kupo: your view of open source is a blast from the past — the last time I really heard those arguments hold much sway was around the turn of the millennium.

Open source software won IT professionals over when it proved itself to be good *at security*. It did that quite convincingly in the early 2000’s.

Most open-source projects (like most closed-source projects) are poorly managed dumpster fires, at best. But a project that is key infrastructure will have lots of eyes on it.

ChloroFluoro
ChloroFluoro
7 months ago

I don’t think we should use language which could be seen as feminizing to describe Lindsey Graham, even if it’s not intended as such./

What’s wrong with being feminized? It’s only wrong if one believes that being a woman or being feminine is in someway inferior.

He already gets shamed a lot for being a gay crossdresser despite the fact that there’s no evidence that he’s gay or a crossdresser and it’s not shame-worthy even if he was.

Certainly agree with you there. The only shame in being a crossdresser is being a hypocritical, secret crossdresser who makes other crossdressers’ lives miserable.

And that’s if he’s not being shamed for being a pedophile, a transwoman, or even a drag king (and yes, I saw someone do that, they shamed him for being a woman trying too hard to pretend to be a man). Most of those people are supposedly liberals. Let’s do better than that, and call out that kind of stupidity on our side.

Well, if I’m reading between the lines here correctly, then I am only a “supposed” liberal because I don’t meet up with your exacting standard of being so excruciatingly correct in never, ever possibly offending anyone in any way to the point that if I do not express myself to your liking, than I am “shaming” people and need to be “called out for my stupidity.”

And if I am being paranoid or overly sensitive (a distinct possibility, I do have my issues) for interpreting your dog whistle phrasing as being directed at my comments, then I must accept that fact that–while you can wax pedantic on behalf of the feelings of crossdressers or gay folk, (something that you are able to do with admirable calm composure and subtle phrasing to be honest)–it seems that my own feelings do not signify.

I dealt with enough of that in college. I can never be woke enough, liberal enough, progressive enough or tolerant enough to satisfy some people. Clearly, when the image of Lindsey Graham dressed as Scarlett O’Hara popped into my head, I lost all standing as a moral being.

I must go now– and become a Republican. My first task will be to face my inferiority as a woman, since “feminizing” is such a distasteful thing. My second task will be to return to patronizing Chick-fil-a and have one of their brownies which have been haunting my dreams.

BTW, Lindsey Graham as Scarlett O’Hara is funny, dammit! Because the Scarlett O’Hara schtick is a caricature of frippery and appearance over authenticity. I could imagine Melania or Ivanka in a huge, hoop skirt. I would not picture Nancy Pelosi in such ruffled overkill, because she doesn’t have time for such nonsense.

Anyway, I guess that I have blown it now. Thanks, David, for what you do here.

Snowberry
Snowberry
7 months ago

@Clorofluoro: You are correct in that there’s nothing wrong with “being feminized” (though that’s a weird way to word it). But there is something wrong with purposefully misgendering people or otherwise misidentifying them. If Lindsey Graham is closeted in some way and ever decides to come out, that’s his choice. We don’t get to decide who he is.

Under normal circumstances, it wouldn’t be a big deal to describe his personality as “Southern Belle”, but given the kind of gender crap he already gets, people are going to interpret that wrongly. In other words, it’s not abusive in of itself, but helps reinforce abuse which already exists.

Not quite the same thing, but back when Trump was elected people started calling him descriptive phrases which used the words “Orangutan” or “Baboon”. And then the racists were all like “see, SJWs are total hypocrites, they know it’s absolutely okay to call the N-words ‘apes’ and the only reason why they don’t let us is because they hate white people.” It’s questionable whether we should be calling people animal-words, but anything related to apes should definitely be off-limits as long as they’re regularly used as a slur to dehumanize minorities. It helps normalize overt racism even if it’s not used in a racist manner.

Catalpa
Catalpa
7 months ago

@ChloroFluoro

By making a joke about Lindsey Graham bring a southern belle, you bring to mind common and derogatory tropes about femininity being lesser and shameful. Even if this wasn’t your intention, “lol, that dude is gay/a crossdresser!” jokes are too ubiquitous for this not to be brought to mind, and a lot of people are going to immediately assume that is also the punchline of your joke. Because that’s usually the punchline of jokes like this. It’s perpetuating an unpleasant stereotype.

(And even leaving aside that, the stereotype of an overly sensitive pearl-clutching ninny automatically being a woman isn’t a great stereotype to be putting forward either.)

Ergo, the joke isn’t a great one for this environment. Don’t put words in our mouths, we aren’t saying that makes you, personally, a terrible, homophobic, sexist, unwoke bigot. It means that you have something that you can learn from and improve upon. Ideally this is supposed to be a “hm, I didn’t think about it that way” moment, not a “I am being personally crucified by the commentariat for being insufficiently progressive!” moment for you.

Amnesia
Amnesia
7 months ago

Long time no post, but I need to vent about something. So, recently I’ve been commenting on a local news Facebook comment section, because it is pretty much infested with ultra-conservatives in the area and desperately needs other opinions. Well, I recently made a comment in support of the new Red Flag law Virginia is trying to pass, and my god, the pushback. So much preaching about their precious 2nd Amendment and insistence that it would just be a slippery slope to Nazis and telling me to go look up the history (as if there would be no way to have a differing opinion on said history) and no actual substance. Honestly, the intellectual laziness is what bugged me more than anything.
It was just so incredibly annoying and so tiresome and there isn’t really anybody offline to really complain about it to. So, yeah. That.
Also a friend had people yelling at her daughter for being in Girl Scouts because ‘THEY SUPPORT PLANNED PARENTHOOD!1!!1’ So I’m just really pissed off with the area I live in.

NOBODY
NOBODY
7 months ago

I’ve seen a similar thing with liberals calling Ann Coulter “Man Coulter” and trying to say she’s a trans* woman.

I have never seen real leftists initiate this dreadful misogynistic joke.

(Yeah,transphobic is the obvious take, but it implies there is only one legit way to be even a ciswoman)

The people I recall leaning hard into this joke are either radical frauds and scensters from the libertarian right or people who have some connection to reactionary conspiracy politics.

Not saying a person with real liberal values wouldn’t laugh with it, but have never seen it irl outside the internet.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Amnesia

insistence that it would just be a slippery slope to Nazis

We’re already there, but for all the opposite reasons than what conservatives complain about. I would say the irony, but we all know that it’s deliberate.

Universal Kami
Universal Kami
7 months ago

@NOBODY

It can be both transphobic and misogynistic.

NOBODY
NOBODY
7 months ago

Well, if I’m reading between the lines here correctly, then I am only a “supposed” liberal because I don’t meet up with your exacting standard of being so excruciatingly correct in never, ever possibly offending anyone in any way to the point that if I do not express myself to your liking, than I am “shaming” people and need to be “called out for my stupidity.”

……

I dealt with enough of that in college. I can never be woke enough, liberal enough, progressive enough or tolerant enough to satisfy some people.

While I think the first part is a slight exaggerating, you are not wrong. And the reason this happens… especially in college… boils down to privilege.

I don’t know how many times a trustfundista insisted on arguing with my actual working class experience. But they are never wrong because “super woke!” And invariably white. The most obnoxious examples include mocking and gaslighting people who have actually had their lives threatened by police because they were taken for a person of color.

One person who has engaged in this behavior is a regular commenter on this site.

So while there are good points about avoiding unnecessary splash damage, it’s really rich when it comes from a community with filters so bad, all one has to do is parrot super wokeness to be accepted.

NOBODY
NOBODY
7 months ago

@Universal Kami

Yes, I thought that was the point.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
7 months ago

@Amnesia

Welcome back!

Well, I recently made a comment in support of the new Red Flag law Virginia is trying to pass, and my god, the pushback. So much preaching about their precious 2nd Amendment and insistence that it would just be a slippery slope to Nazis and telling me to go look up the history (as if there would be no way to have a differing opinion on said history) and no actual substance. Honestly, the intellectual laziness is what bugged me more than anything.

This is pretty much what I said earlier in the thread. Conservatives aren’t so much against gun control laws because of “muh 2nd amendment!” I was reading earlier that the NRA had even opposed “taggants” in explosives on an anti-terrorism bill.

Taggants are microscopically color-coded particles that act as a sort of fingerprint that would allow federal authorities to track the explosive back to its user.

Why would they do that? Well, because conservatives are very well aware that most acts of terrorism taking place on US soil are committed by them, against women and vulnerable groups who tend to vote democrat.

At this point the only reasonable explanation that comes to mind is that they purposefully want to let these terrorist acts happen because it consolidates their power by mowing them the “undesirables” in their ideal society.

They only offer words and condolences because of plausible deniability.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@NOBODY

So while there are good points about avoiding unnecessary splash damage, it’s really rich when it comes from a community with filters so bad, all one has to do is parrot super wokeness to be accepted.

I don’t know where you got that idea. I (and presumably Snowberry) were not trying to attack Chlorofluoro in any way. Criticizing something someone said is not the same as a personal attack on everything about them. Learning from mistakes is an important part of life, and none of us are perfect. I’m sorry what I said was so upsetting, I certainly did not mean it to be that way.

The reason we have to do this is, there are actual people here who can be harmed by the splash damage. So writing us all off as collateral damage is not good for the community or for us. For example, I’m a trans* woman. Mocking Graham by saying he’s secretly trans* are harmful to trans* people like me, so I’m going to call that out. It doesn’t mean the person saying it is bad, it just is a request for them to not say that again.

@Diego Duarte

they purposefully want to let these terrorist acts happen because it consolidates their power by mowing them the “undesirables” in their ideal society.

For sure. Half of Republican speeches are simply stochastic terrorism calls with the idea that one person will act and get rid of some Democrats.

kupo
kupo
7 months ago

kupo: your view of open source is a blast from the past — the last time I really heard those arguments hold much sway was around the turn of the millennium.

Can you guys seriously stop the personal attacks? I don’t care if you disagree with me or if your experience with open source has been different from mine. That’s great, I’m glad you have had better experiences!

But these personal attacks are too much. Just stop.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
7 months ago

@ChloroFluoro – You said:

I was not speculating about Graham’s sexual orientation, (nor do I care).

crossdresser =/= a ‘sexual orientation’.

If you are referring to trans people, being trans is a *gender* orientation. You can be trans and straight, bi, gay, lesbian, whatever. Being transgender only refers to someone’s gender.

The Southern Bell trope just popped into my mind because something about the “righteous” outrage that Graham affects has a pearl-clutching, fan-fluttering, “Oh-mah-delicate-nahves” sensibility that is different from the pompous outrage of others on the right.

It also makes people think of a man who’s wearing a dress, which is so often tied to trans women (who are not men in dresses, to be clear! They are women wearing whatever the hell they want). But to the general public, that is what the image you mentioned will call up, a non-passing trans woman.

You originally said –

(And no, I am not shaming cross dressers, but I bet Lindsey would at the drop of a ruffled sun bonnet.)

But this being ‘his secret’ says a few things –
1) – all haters are actually the thing they hate most. No, he’s the cis’ and the straights problem.
2) The worst thing in the world is to be trans, or to like ‘women’ things. No, it isn’t.
3) People would rather sell out an entire nation than admit to being trans, or liking ‘women’ things. No. Terrible people would rather sell out an entire nation than risk losing their power.

How about we don’t speculate over what sort of dirty-dirt someone has on the republicans? Because we’ll never know, unless it gets leaked.

All you’re doing is hurting trans and queer people, right now. :/ Maybe stop. It’s really no different for someone (who I assume is) on the left to do this, than someone on the right.

*resets the timer for how long it’s been since I have had to explain that no, the homophobe/transphobe/whatever is not secretly queer in some way.*

ETA: Oh geez, there was a whole other page that I hadn’t seen yet. Sorry if this has all already been covered!

Viscaria
Viscaria
7 months ago

It seems really unfair to me that some folks who are disagreeing with Kupo on this thread are doing so in a way that calls her experience, which she has clearly laid out in this thread, into doubt. I don’t know whose opinions about open source are right. I only like 12% understand what open source is. But I know if someone has expertise in a field and takes a position, “You’re lying about your expertise” is not a counterargument, and neither is “Nobody in the field currently believes that” (so you must be lying about your experience or just not keeping current with your work). Sometimes people who know their shit disagree with you. That doesn’t mean they don’t know their shit.

I don’t know my shit at all, so you can all feel free to condescend to me about what is or isn’t believed about open source code in this the year 2020.

Jesalin, Goddess of Lust & Pleasure
Jesalin, Goddess of Lust & Pleasure
7 months ago

Well said Viscaria!

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
7 months ago

Honestly, my second take is that for voting machines, until there is a regulatory and independent test setup at least as strong as that used for casino slot machines, it really doesn’t matter whether it’s open source or closed source. Not to mention end-to-end physical protection for the machines, which is a lot harder for machines that have to be in every polling district rather than just inside one casino. (My first take is still that software-controlled voting machines are just inherently a bad idea.)

And considering how much Republicans hate regulatory agencies, and the fact that the U.S. still allows partisan groups to draw district boundaries and run elections, I think I can safely say this is a complete non-starter without serious changes in the U.S. electoral culture.

(In Canada, the electoral map is drawn up by career bureaucrats for a reason.)

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
7 months ago

So, stupid Google has evidently lowered the reverse image search filesize limit from 5MB to 1MB, which is bad, because whereas images over 5MB are uncommon images over 1MB are quite common.

Worse, nowhere did they announce or document that they were changing this.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

@Surplus
That’s just odd. I wonder why they did that. Usually new technology means these things go up, not down.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
7 months ago

Yeah, that’s what I thought, but you can see for yourself. Drop in anything over a meg and it will come up with a page claiming “secure connection failed”. Business as usual for smaller images. It’s not some transient glitch, either: a) it’s consistent every time, and b) it’s been this way for a couple of months now, long past the point they’d have changed it back if it was inadvertent. The only reasonable conclusion is that the new behavior is policy rather than accident.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
7 months ago

@Surplus:
I’m not as certain about that, because I’ve seen all sorts of ways that ‘secure connection failed’ can come up that don’t even have anything to do with either end of the connection. (To the point where I literally had a file that failed to transfer through a router on every attempt but would succeed if one byte shorter or one byte longer.) Some HTTPS modes can be ridiculously sensitive to file size (or transfer time), especially once you get things like transparent proxies getting in the way.

Granted, I’d want to run checks with a network tracer running before making any proclamations other than ‘there are ways that might be happening that aren’t under either your or Google’s control’.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
7 months ago

I can (still) upload files of that size anywhere else, including images, including to HTTPS sites (e.g. Facebook). Whatever changed, changed at Google. And whoever changed it, didn’t change it back, even after months.

Meanwhile:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/02/checks-and-balances-trump-has-swept-away/606013/

I am very worried about this so-called “presidency” now. It looks like this year’s will be the real “Flight 93 election”: the only chance left to preserve some semblance of (small-r) republican rule is to get rid of Trump with a sufficiently overwhelming vote in November that it will overcome whatever thumbs Rapepublicans see fit to put on the scale for Trump and leave a large enough Dem margin of victory that none of them can credibly claim the results are fraudulent and that Trump should have won.

On the other hand:

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/02/06/rachel-bitecofer-profile-election-forecasting-new-theory-108944

This says it’s Dems’ election to lose. They might even be able to win if Biden is the nominee. Might.

cubist
7 months ago

sez Diego Duarte:

After criminally prosecuting Trump and taking away all of his properties, to pay for all the damages that would likely be awared, I would eminent domain the NY Trump Tower and repurpose it as a government building.

You sure about that? The Angry Cheeto has a long-standing history of cutting corners to save money. Best to do a thorough inspection of the place, to make sure it’s actually structurally sound and yada yada, before handing it over to anybody who does real work.

Snowberry
Snowberry
7 months ago

Yes, well, if said angry cheeto flees the country to avoid state-level prosecution in New York, New Jersey, and possibly Maryland, his properties in those states might get confiscated. Depends on whether his spawn manage to claim ownership. I’d think that this is less likely if he goes to prison; even if it’s effectively a life sentence, he can technically retain ownership so long as someone pays the property taxes and any other licenses and fees, and then grant them all to Jared Kushner or whoever in his will. This is just a guess, though – I don’t know how property seizure normally works in those states, only that rich people tend to get treated more generously by the legal system.

I don’t think that his Florida properties would be confiscated, unless he gets really stupid and his supposed former allies kill him before he can transfer ownership. And even then, his spawn will probably find a way to claim them.

Naglfar
Naglfar
7 months ago

O/T, but somewhat relevant to this blog:
https://youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=o9PkufxEd9w

Graham Linehan is even more awful than usual lately.