By David Futrelle
The AskDoctors subreddit is designed to be a place that people can ask doctors the sorts of questions they might ask some doctor they’ve managed to corner at a dinner party — “hey doc, does this look infected to you?” The topics currently under discussion in the subreddit include “White stuff coming out where stitches were,” “How do you treat a stab wound?” and “Severe farts.”
A couple of days ago, one angry incel called GreekSymmetrics decided to ask a rather different sort of question, demanding to know “Why are modern urologists/endocrinologists so misandristic and ignorant?”
GreekSymmetrics was apparently furious at his doctors for telling him that his somewhat smaller than average penis was no big deal.
Hold up, you might say. Wouldn’t a heterosexual dude with a smaller dick be glad to hear that small dicks are normal and that most women don’t really care about penis size, as numerous surveys have shown?
But no. Incels are so devoted to their victim status that they’ve convinced themselves that every alleged physical imperfection they have is a HUGE deal that will prevent them forever from winning over the girl of their dreams.
And they get pretty testy about it, as GreekSymmetrics’ long rant males clear. Brace yourself, because here it comes.
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
Now you might find yourself wondering about one of GreekSymmetrics’ claims: if small-dicked men were eliminated from the gene pool during caveman days, why are there still men with smal dicks? Don’t worry! He answered this crucial question in a followup comment:
The small penis gene hasnt evaporated because since the modern civilization women began to accept weaker unmasculine men with lots of resources and Money, of course they werent sexually satisfyed by them, but they received a stable home and income from them which why they gave birth to their Kids as a exchange …
This is precisely observeable if you take a look how the jaw size and facial masculinity of men declined when marriage came into Play at the times of the modernization
I would try to verify this experimentally, but my calipers are in the shop.
H/T — r/Cringetopia, via r/TheBluePill.
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A lot of words were used, statistically some of them should have been good. Oh well
Bloody hell, dude. It’s not your penis that’s the problem, it’s the giant dick that it’s attached to.
So this is where Incels admit that they’re lying, they’re not after long term relationships and they are just mad they cannot have as much casual sex as they want?
It’s mind blowing that you consider yourself a victim because people are interested in pursuing long term commitment with you!
Also, from my casual sex days…I do not recall ever having asked a man about his penis size before sex. It’s almost as if that is not how it works…
I guess whatever he needs to tell himself to avoid facing up to the fact his horrendous personality and attitudes are what are offputting.
This comment from Lady_EtherealDoom is golden:
So, maybe some TMI warning as I discuss some sexual exploits!
As a (mostly) straight chic, I’ve had both good and bad sex with dudes over the years. And some of the best sex I’ve had was with “below average” guys in terms of dick size. They also happened to be guys that tried to make sex fun (different positions, dirty talk, indulging in some of my kinks) and (and this is the important bit) they actively cared about my enjoyment.
The worst sex I ever had was with an extremely well endowed dude who honestly thought pumping in and out as hard as he could was great. When we started having sex, I asked if he was gonna use his hands at all, and his answer was a befuddled “What for?” That night was actually painful and I spent more time keeping his from…fully penetrating that actually enjoying myself. That was the first and last time we had sex.
So, no Mr. GreekSymmentrics, your possible partner’s dissatisfaction does not come from penis size, it comes from you treating women like interchangeable vaginas that have no passions, kinks, or opinions of their own.
XKCD has a comic for just about any topic
I mean as someone who’s partner does have a large penis, it’s the creativity, positions, oral sex, and dirty talk are what make our sex lives fun. I prefer a large penis but if you don’t know what to do with it, it’s a waist. kind of like having a gourmet kitchen but no idea how to cook. In that situation you want the Gordon Ramsey of small dicks.
umm, dude? You keep using that word “dimorphic.” It does not mean what you seem to think it means.
From, IIRC, the Greek (ironically), and means “two forms.” The phrase “sexually dimorphic “ refers to species in which the average body size of one sex is larger than the average size of the other sex. You know, like spiders, or gorillas… or humans. It has precisely nothing to do with penis size, or penis size preference.
I have a question. Is it me, or do women tend to tolerate it better when they have small breasts compared to when guys have small penises? I think what this has to say is that women don’t seem to be hooked on sex as much IMO, but I’m not sure. I also believe that guys who don’t really care about penis size tend to be in relationships where sex doesn’t matter or have conservative attitudes towards sex themselves.
Something about this guy is weak and underdeveloped, all right.
Unfortunately, it’s his personality.
A Chadly penis vs. a non-Chadly penis? A reason to wake up in the morning vs. no reason to? An exciting, fun-filled, easy-peasy life vs. the life of an incel?
Sob.
OT but a brand-new book about Silicon Valley and the alt-right might be of interest to Mammotheers; Amanda Marcotte interviews the author
Trolls have taken over our democracy. Silicon Valley helped
Andrew Marantz, in his new book, “Antisocial,” explores how techno-utopianism decayed into alt-right madness
Amanda Marcotte
https://www.salon.com/2019/10/08/trolls-have-taken-over-our-democracy-silicon-valley-helped/
The ideal response to GreekSymmetrics.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA
Wasn’t even posted in the real AskDocs sub. Probably tried posting it there but most likely go auto-deleted by the bot.
Yeah… it… it isn’t his dick keeping him from getting laid. It’s him. It’s 100% him and his attitude.
Nobody likes a whiner.
@Catalpa
Maybe his dick is short because he put 3/4 of it into his personality.
Also, isn’t 4 inches relatively normal penis size? I think the average size for an American man is something like 5 inches and change, so it’s a little below average, but not abnormally small or anything.
Because I apparently love cringing in discomfort, I decided to seek out this “Dr. Georg Pfau” and found this exchange on a looksmaxxing* forum.
Based on that forum post, I gather that Dr. Pfau is an Austrian “men’s doctor” who, among other things, advocates for testosterone supplementation in most men.
(He also has a website, which is in German, which I cannot read)
The discussion then devolves into how large a “normal sized” testicle should be (apparently, the size of a chicken’s egg, a claim met with substantial incredulity by most of the other posters, somewhat counterintuitively).
@David you can have this for free, if you want
*looksmaxxing (n.) a “cope”, or coping technique, that incels** engage in, involving maximizing their physical attractiveness within the limits*** of their natural physical form
**Or other men who feel that they are not getting enough of the sexual attention from women that they deserve
***Such as skeletal dimensions, including but not limited to wrist circumference and canthal tilt
It’s not just his personality. Surely some women will be repelled by his random use of capital letters?
Hey, RV97 – I usually just lurk here, but someone needs to tell you that women’s satisfaction or dissatisfaction with their breasts has NOTHING to do with their interest in sex. For instance, my own breast size was slight to moderate, reaching a C cup only during my brief breastfeeding days, but my interest in sex began with puberty, ran me ragged until I was in my 30s, and even since menopause has been a nice, steady even force in my life, though it certainly gets me in less trouble than it did when I was younger.
My understanding is that’s how most of us work, whether we’re big or small breasted women or large or small dicked men.
Maybe you should try reading something factually based about sex instead of getting your ideas about women and sex from really-old men’s magazines. I can’t imagine that even modern porn suggests that small breasted women aren’t that interested in sex.
Coming back to add that sex has more to do with hormones and brains than the arrangement of fatty tissue in one’s mammary glands. (Tried but I was too late to get in the edit window. Sorry!)
Someone has some adorable ideas about lesbians if he think all we do is oral.
@Otrame
In biology “sexual dimorphism” means something that is different between biological sexes. Not just body size, but things like color, teeth, etc.
I’m agreeing that he doesn’t know what it means. What exactly IS the relationship between lesbians and sexual dimorphism? Does he think that all lesbians actually have pensies? Does he think that all lesbians don’t have penetrative sex? Does he even think? We may never know.
Steph:
Well of course not. You can just select a man with masculine frame and chiseled jaw angles, and without fail, a large penis will follow.
Lainy:
“Do you like your sexual satisfaction raw, medium or well done?”
Talonknife:
Well, it certainly stands out from most clitorides (that is, if you only want sexual dimorphism).
@Another Laura
OK, but I wonder if women can have a similarly intense dissatisfaction for having small breasts. I know that for practical reasons, women with big breasts have it bad and do have discomfort from it, but that’s about it as far as I know.
I think Laura beat me to this but RV97 – sex and sexual satisfaction has nothing to do with breast size. Nothing whatsoever.
As for women tolerating small breasts better well some probably just don’t care about breast size but there are clearly those who are significantly bothered enough to get surgery. But even then it has nothing to do with sexual satisfaction.
Funny that the guy’s ‘nym should be “GreekSymmetrics”. You know, those Ancient Greeks who, along with the Romans, are routinely held up by MRA chuds like these to be the founders and insurmountable peak of “Western” virtue? They thought big penises were funny. Absolutely hilarious– so much so that their comedies used to feature scenes with actors running around with big gag dongs attached to their costumes. Apparently, the Ancient Greek ideal was to have a small-to-medium-sized penis with a long foreskin…
Another Laura:
I don’t think rv97 meant that, but rather “do women with small breasts often feel somehow deeply inadequate?” I don’t think men’s penis size or penis size satisfaction is related to their sex drive, either.
As for penis size anxiety, it often gets rationalized in terms of what women supposedly prefer sexually. Not very surprising, since that approach at least makes some sense.
However, sometimes it is hinted or outright noted that it doesn’t really have much or anything to do with sex or women. Rather, men just intuitively feel that having a large penis is a value in itself – the larger, the better. Something about impressing other men. As a man, I can feel a faint hunch of this myself.
This would explain why the cultural ideal of extremely large penis keeps popping up (sorry), why penis size is typically discussed in terms of length rather than girth, why men often seem to disbelieve information on women’s sexual preferences, and why some men get confused when their penis turns out too big for a specific woman. Such thing as “too big penis” just doesn’t compute.
The screed quoted in OP is really something. Contentwise, it reads like carefully crafted trolling from someone who’s well familiar with what women say they want, and responds with empathetic “nuh-uh” all the way down. In style and length, however, it does give an impression of a genuinely passionate rambler.
Also, “sexual dimorphism”, while present in humans, is not particularly marked compared with other species. This is in line with our near relatives like chimps– you have to get to gorillas and orangutans before there’s a significant variation in body mass between the sexes. And even then, we’re not talking about creatures like spiders where the females are often tens of times the size of the males; or those weird fish where the males basically implant themselves in the females’ skin, shed every organ but their testes and reduce themselves to some kind of permanently-attached, quasi-parasitic, always-on-tap sperm pump– though, presumably, this is the ambition of many men in the MRA/incel community…
To give a quick translation of Dr. Pfau’s homepage:
EVOLUTION! Feminism is bad for men! Only helps SOME women! EVOLUTION! MEN NOT BAD! EVOLUTION!
And an incessant need to stress the age of humanity to show that EVOLUTION made men into men and women into women and did we mention Evolution already?
Also: All his awards are printed-out facebook awards.
I really want to introduce this guy to Walter. They’d get along great.
Love the sarcasm here. The absolute clueless incredulity that women might want more out of life than painful jackhammer sex. The slackjawed amazement that the medical establishment hasn’t come up with a cure for smaller than average penises (they MUST be suppressing it!).
What is it he expects from doctors? To be shamed and told his life is over? To be prescribed a bunch of expensive supplements that are useless at best, dangerous at worst? Painful, risky surgery? And yet all of these options are preferable to treating women respectfully.
I’m starting to revise my definition of incels. Sex isn’t their primary objective. They would much rather be “right” than get laid. They’ll believe the most idiotic conspiracies, perform outlandish mental gymnastics, and spout Gish gallop nonsense till the cows come home rather than entertain for one second the horrible prospect of having to be nice to women.
That actually sounds pretty appealing. At least romantic twinks would be able to talk about something other than their penis size and T levels.
His science is wrong, though. Women have 3.4 x 10^46 erogenous spots. Evolution was bored one afternoon and couldn’t find anything on TV.
Great, go live in a cave, then. Quick! Your house is feminizing you as you speak.
When will this idea of progressive evolution die? We are not “higher”: evolution doesn’t work that way. We are more or less fitted to our environment, as our ancestors were to theirs.
Also, one way “cavemen” were superior to modern humans: I bet there weren’t caveman incels. Sitting around complaining that their foreheads sloped slightly too much for Ur-Stacy.
BTW, do we have confirmation that this guy identifies as an incel? He certainly sounds highly incel-ish, but then again there’s all kind of ranty haters just running loose around internet.
I’d hate to unfairly offend the concerned incels who try to post whiny comments on this blog, blaming David for some other progressives using “incel” as a relatively generic insult for various haters and losers, when the term properly applies to a very specific community of hateful defeatists.
I have trouble believing there are postmodern incels also, ones who actually believe that the male brain and the male character are vastly superior to a woman’s and that it’s only incels’ wrist circumference and canthal tilt that make it impossible for them to get dates.
Isn’t this just some elaborate, long-running prank?
@I’d hate to unfairly offend the concerned incels
In teh immortal word of Göring: you decide about who’s an ince here.
‘Sup, @yzek. “I know you are, but what am I?” doesn’t work when none of the posters here are in the least bit bitter that they can’t attract the sexual partner of their preference. Y’know, like incels are.
So, what next? Gonna post more pictures of Barbies?
Oh man, so much to unpack here. Other commenters have pointed out the misuse of the term “dimorphism” and their own experiences, but I do have some “there but for the grace of God go I” desire to tease out where the anxiety comes from. It’s not one I’m entirely unfamiliar with, but it’s also not one that I fretted over either.
Because I was well aware quite early, as early as reading the sex ed materials when I was going through puberty, that donger size was variable and mostly irrelevant. I actually recall one book saying straight-up “A lot of pornographic material will focus on people with exaggerated proportions. Don’t use it for comparison. It’s fantasy.” I’ll admit it’s a fantasy I’ve indulged in, but I’ve been keenly aware since that it is fantasy.
I draw a lot of lewds and thus a lot of dongers, and plenty of them adhere to this fantasy (it helps that porn offers plenty of references). They also are attached to men (and women) who have fur and tails, so they are in fact entirely fantastical. My main human character actually possesses a more average length and he’s meant to be an archetypal sexually-indulgent rakish bard with a notorious history of pleasuring men and women alike to the point that he has it down to an art. What to say, what to touch, when to touch it, reading bodily responses, that kind of thing. The summation of a sexual career devoted to shared pleasure rather than just his own.
There’s a lot of cultural stereotypes and shorthands embedded in the OP’s screed and none of them resemble reality.
@Ariblester
The size of chicken eggs?
Okay, I have seen enough porn to know that can’t possibly be true.
Someone who DOES have testicles that large should be seeing a doctor, and definitely one more qualified than Pfau.
To be totally fair, that wasn’t from Pfau (AFAIK), that was coming from the guy bringing up Pfau (who was apparently very concerned that his testicles were shrunken).
If his small penis isn’t the problem, then his horrible toxic personality is. That’s something he could change, but that would require work. Better to just ignore every evidence to the contrary and howl about how all women, the medical profession, and data collection are in league against his ever getting laid.
@lumpiuna
Oh the rawest of raw. So raw that it’s still moving and making noise lol. ( that was a joke about us perfering sex without condoms when it’s just us. I’m not that great at jokes).
At this point I’ve given up hope for any redemptions for any incel. If they want to live sad and pathetic lives while putting in no work to change that it’s on them. One of the first things I’ve learned from being an addict and in therapy with other addicts is that you really want to have to get better in order to do so.
Ok, as far as the gist of it goes, it’s standard Incel fare/bullshit… but why all this random capitalization?
It makes me feel like I’m reading Emily Dickinson again, although it’s certainly less poetic.
That, or playing Sunless Sea/Cultist Simulator, since Alexis Kennedy loved using those as well. Shame he turned out to be yet another harasser in indie devs culture, which made me kinda… disinclined to ever played his titles again.
Half way through OP’s rant, I started to wonder if his randomly capitalized words were some sort of incel-secret-message. All I found were:
PANS
BAP
FAR
WAM
Probably not. Disappointing. I thought I found the key to understanding the incel mind. /sarcasm
rv97: re breasts = penises
I don’t find that parallel compelling for two reasons.
1. Girls and women wear their breast on their fronts which leaves the size and shape clearly visible behind their clothes. The size and shape of boy’s and men’s penises are entirely concealed from incidental view. Since breast size is easily observed, it can be more ubiquitously judged.
2. Breast size is judged on deviation from the expected norm. Small breasts are terrible. Large breasts are terrible. Developing breasts too early is terrible. Breasts not developing soon enough it terrible. Basically, unless the person with breasts develops them at exactly the right time in the exactly correct proportions, there will be merciless taunting. Thanks to porn, penis size usually has a general anxiety of “too small” around it for the owner. Since people keep them covered and are generally anxious, a taunt of “small dick” can generally get a **cough** rise out of them.
Cat Mara: Re ancient Greek theater.
One of our local theater companies shares a similar enthusiasm for plush prosthetic penises over costumes. Fun times.
I attempted to track down this doctor he mentions at the end and found this website…given it’s content I dunno if I found the right doctor
http://www.gaymed.at/willkommen/
@Ariblester
You’re not an incel, I get it.
My opinion on penis size is that if a potential partner cares about sheer size that much, they could buy sex toys in sizes and shapes no regular human man could hope to achieve anyway, so there’s really no point in worrying about it.
@arilester
I mean yeah. I can kind of see that. Once I got sick and convinced myself with google that I had somehow caught the white plague.
Breast= penis size thing
Not equivalent but in my women in pop culture class last year I learned that a lot of women are concerned about the size of their vuvla lips. That there is a rise in women who get surgery to make them smaller because you know, anything big on a woman that isn’t breast, must be shrunken down.
Also, off topic, it’s about wedding stuff again, but this one is cute, I promise. I got a bowtie collar for my fiancés’s bulldog for him to wear in the in the wedding. It is the cutest damn thing I’ve ever seen. He looks like dapper doge.
As someone with congenital hypopituitarism, I would just like to say that 4″ is huge, relatively speaking. Yet, somehow, I don’t have any of the major hang-ups which are apparently supposed to come with such a shortcoming. That’s possibly also due to the congenital hypopituitarism…