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By David Futrelle
Homophobes and transphobes do so love their slippery slope arguments.
If you give rights to gay people, or trans people, they claim, its only a few short steps to accepting pedophiles as a legitimate “lifestyle choice.” Then it’s on to cats marrying dogs and people marrying toasters.
Trouble is, more than a few of the “traditionalist” types who yell the loudest about the imaginary SJW push to normalize pedophilia also think that it’s perfectly normal — if not God’s will — for adult men to marry girls in their early teens.
In their minds, “real” pedophilia is a Satanic evil, but “hebephilia” and “ephebophilia” — sexual attraction to adolescents — is basically what God and nature intended.
Now some of these galaxy-brained “jailbait” obsessives have even begun to argue that the only way to fight “real” pedophilia is to set the age of consent at puberty and give men like them free reign.
In a thread on “Red Pill sexuality” on the Holla Forums, one jailbait theorist called Nathaniel Butler argues that age of consent laws should only protect pre-pubescent children.
“The true red pill is simple,” he writes.
Only heterosexuality should be legal and it should be full heterosexuality not the current restricted heterosexuality.
Nothing good could possibly follow an assertion like that.
That means it should be heterosexuality as God/nature intended so that the age of consent law should … simply be [that] pre-pubescent=illegal and people should not only be allowed to have sex from the start of puberty but they should also be allowed to get married then if they want too.
Later in the discussion, one Levi Torres (who sounds suspiciously like a socjkpuppet of Mr. Butler) went a bit further.
Agreeing with another commenter who suggested that “pedophilia [will be] the next big thing pushed by the left,” Torres suggested that age of consent laws set at age 16 or higher actually help pedophiles because they allegedly confuse the public into lumping the bad pephoophiles in with the (allegedly) good hebephiles and ephebophiles like him.
The left, Torres claims, has
already successfully blue-pilled … too many people into believing a false definition of paedophilia. The REAL SCIENTIFIC definition of paedophilia is sexual attraction to PRE-PUBESCENT CHILDREN, not sexual attraction to young adults under an unnatural government-created [Age of Consent].
Dude, as I’m sure you’re well aware, girls typically hit puberty between the ages of 11 and 14, if not younger. These are not “young adults.” They are still children.
The reason they’ve got people to believe the false definition is so that they can create so many repressed heterosexuals who believe that they’re actually paedophiles so will eventually support the legalisation of paedophilia.
I’ll let Leslie Jones respond for me here:
Torres continues:
The way to stop paedophilia being legalised is to change the [age of consent] to pre-pubescent=illegal and red-pill everyone on the FACT that only those attracted to pre-pubescent children are paedophiles and that all other heterosexuals are normal.
Being attracted to girls under 16 but not pre-pubescent is 100% normal and is the natural way of things and had been regarded as such since the first humans up until quite recently.
Dude, that’s enough computer for you today, you piece of shit.
If you need me I’ll be here quietly banging my head on my desk.
I don’t even know how to respond to this
Move over.
Thats right. It shouldn’t be based on whether a child has the mental development and emotional maturity to consent to sex. It should be based on whether you find her sexually attractive or not. It doesn’t matter if she’s not legally deemed mature enough to live on her own without the protection of a guardian. As long as she’s barely developing breasts, she totally has the mental and emotional capacity to consent to having sex with creepy adult men. So if she does “willingly” have sex with old men, they weren’t taking advantage of her. It was her own decision and she should take responsibility for it.
Oh, let’s let forget the blatant assumption that all men are closet pedophiles. Guh, I feel so grossed out.
I wonder if he would have a problem if we turned this around and addressed it to women:
Considering that I’m watching Leaving Neverland, about the abuse committed by Michael Jackson right now, I’m finding pro child abuse shit even less amusing than usual. Just disgusting.
If a female’s brain is too developed (and full brain development typically occurs after sex organs and other parts mature), she may not be attracted to these doods! If they command her to have sex with them, she m,m,might turn them down! Or tell them to pound sand! Waaa!
It’s not always the physical attributes of these young teens the creeps find attractive, no matter how much they protest to the contrary. What the creeps like are the underdeveloped critical thinking abilities and ease of manipulation these children possess. Of course, they’ll whatabout with, “but teen girls are *very* mature these days; juveniles are charged as adults in crimes, etc.”
Thanks, Dave, for keeping an eye on these disgusting folk for society’s sake.
I’ve had a few clients who were pedophiles, and all bar one’s interest in underage children was due to children being easier to manipulate and dominate than adults.
Which is probably why you hear large parts of the manosphere advocating treating women as children.
I don’t think it’s your head that needs banging.
This is the argument I’ve heard from Fundamentalist LDS-types who want permission to marry a string of 13-16 year olds as soon as they’re physically capable of conceiving them. Tom Green in particular cites this argument as essentially “natural law” (gag) that once the female body is prepared to conceive, then she’s old enough to marry, and that this has been how it’s been for 95% of human history. Ignoring, of course, the fact that the average age of the onset of menstruation has dropped from 16-17 in the 19th century to 9-11 in the latter half of the 20th century, thanks to better nutrition and other environmental factors, possibly hormones in the food supply amongst other things.
Historically, there were very young women married off, but it was considered unusual and cruel to have sex with the child brides until they were around 15 or 16. Margaret Beaufort, mother of the eventual Henry VII, was married and pregnant at 13, and it was seen as utterly horrific and most contemporaries acknowledged that it damaged her for the rest of her life. She only had her one child, never got pregnant again, and this was chalked up to being wedded and bedded far, far too young — and that the Tudor family was too aggressive to have her wealth and their dynasty secured, so they abused her for their own ends. People got this in the 15th century. Red Pillers are a great argument against the idea that society naturally improves and moves forward.
It’s also worth noting that age of consent laws were also developed, especially in the States, to have a means to prosecute child abuse and molestation when there weren’t really many laws surrounding child abuse at all. These laws were originally written to make sure men like these doorknobs couldn’t abuse young women. Weird how that was a thing and is still a thing…
@weirwoodtreehugger:
Admittedy I didn’t fully follow it at the time it was happening, but I had the impression that Michael Jackson was occasionally inappropriate due to a combination of stupidity and a childish mindset, not a pedophile who engaged in child molesting. That’s still enough of a reason to keep him away from kids, though probably not enough of one for criminal punishment. Is the version I heard whitewashed? Or is the “MJ’s a pedo” version the opposite of whitewashed? Or is it a conflicting mess, where the truth will never be known?
I’ve just read a summary of Leaving Neverland. Based on testimony from victims, it really was far, far worse than was reported in the press.
CONTENT WARNING: SEXUAL ABUSE VERY MUCH IN EFFECT HERE
https://www.vulture.com/2019/03/leaving-neverland-michael-jackson-allegations.html
Those men are really sick. I wish the FBI would get wind of this and investigate them. I know that won’t happen, but I wish it would.
Phil Robertson of Duck Dynasty fame has advocating marrying women as young as possible, before they get too uppity. He apparently thinks around 15 years old is old enough.
@Chunky Spaghetti Sauce:
Ummm, where are you getting this consent thing?
Permit me to rephrase this in actual entitled, sexist-jerkface language:
the same bullshit that make a woman responsible for a man’s rape-boner if she wears a skirt or some particularly fetching eye shadow makes a girl responsible for a
hebephile’spedophile’s rape-boner if she, well, exists.Consent never enters into it.
CN: Child abuse
I do remember at that time there was testimony from a victim about the way his genitalia looked that did make the press. But there was eventually a sort of collective amnesia about everything once the court battle ended.
I remember before the allegations went public I was weirded out by his love of hanging out with boys. I was a kid myself at the time, but I could see it and feel it. I was not surprised at all when the allegations did come out and I’ve always believed it was true.
It’s a little weird to me that so many people believe he’s innocent. The red flags were strong.
Let’s not forget the other horrifically offensive argument from our new pal:
Sorry dude, but while homosexuality is illegal in way too many countries, LGBTQ people will continue to demand equal rights. They’re never going to live in shame again, especially not when assholes like you believe that grown men exploiting vulnerable kids is somehow morally superior to relationships between consenting adults of the same gender.
tim gueguen
That it such a tell about their mental & emotional confidence as adults and men. But that self-awareness go right over their heads.
I figure that if they think a girl is mature and responsible enough to “use” their dick, she is mature and responsible enough to “use” their credit cars and automobiles. No?
The idea that historically women/girls married in their teens is complete bullshit.
Yes, royals married off their children young to secure alliances or property before the child could die in one of the many possible ways which are now preventable.
But this was not true for most people.
For example, the average age a marriage in 1619 (in Europe) was 23 for women and 26 for men. It held basically constant at those numbers through the 1950’s when it dropped to 20 (for women) and 24 (for men). Today (in North America) it is 27 for women and 29 for men.
It has never been the norm for teenagers to routinely get married.
The bit about his genitals wasn’t really reported in my country, but I agree about the collective amnesia. And we see the same thing happening with R. Kelly, Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, etc.
@WWTH:
The brain bleach must have been flying off the shelves the moment the 24/7 news cycle had finally moved on.
@doethreetwoone:
Not in the so-called “Western European marriage pattern”, at least:
But outside of that pattern, marrying off recently post-pubescent girls to men in their twenties or older was widely practiced.
Leave God and Nature out of this, you disgusting bucket of bloody snot. Girls don’t want you, and neither do grown-ass women. There’s yer red pill, motherfucker.
Also (with all the warnings), girls as young as 3 are being married off for food right now in Yemen.
I do not for an instant believe that this sort of fuckery is limited to Islam, either.
And I really, REALLY don’t want to know what cultural shifts a famine will bring to North America, if it comes to that.
Why men?
@Ooglyboggles:
Well, as lionesses of a pride will with a lion, there may be some human women that might come together as a collective & decide they’ll tolerate one cis man in their community for sexual and breeding purposes.
If that’s what they decide they want, I won’t judge.
Crip Dyke, responding to Chunky Spaghetti Sauce:
It certainly seeems these particular creeps don’t think sex in terms of consent – despite often using the term “age of consent” – but in terms of normativity, like most conservatives. They seem to take for granted that the reason “real” pedophilia is wrong is obviously because it’s unusual, nontraditional and non-reproductive, not because of consent issues.
I do wonder if it’s genuine, or if they’re actually self-aware about being sexual predators.
In many of the cases of European royals marrying young (very often as children), it was for political, dynastic reasons. The marriages weren’t consummated for years, sometimes decades, later. In some cases, the couple did not even meet each other in person until a similar period of time had elapsed because one or both parties had been represented by proxies during the marriage ceremony!
Yahbut he was talented. And rich. And famous. Gotta give him a pass, even though you’d know damn well that John Doe, the clerk or factory worker who liked to share his bed with young boys, was an abuser.
Wow, this guy REALLY wants to sexually abuse children and he’s REALLY bad at hiding or justifying it. I find it interesting, and painfully predictable, how selective these guys are about what’s “natural” or not based on what they personally want to do. I have a feeling that if someone broke into this guy’s house and started beating him mercilessly while explaining that assault laws didn’t exist in ancient times and they are fairly recent in human history, he wouldn’t feel quite the same way about it. Often the reason laws exist is the exact same reason we look back at history as a prime example of how NOT to do things, rather than the other way around, so saying “we used to do it this way” is the exact opposite of how you make a good argument.
Crip Dyke,
I’d advise finding some model other than lions! Mother-daughter lineages are indeed the core of a pride. But typically, a small group of lion “bros” (often literal brothers) drive out the previous males, kill any young cubs, and go on to father the next generation, expelling their own sons at puberty but mating with their daughters, until they in turn are driven out. The similarity to fundamentalist Mormons is remarkable.
@Hypatia’s Daughter
That’s a good point. These creeps only focus on physical development and the body. They couldn’t care less about mental/emotional readiness. As far as they’re concerned, women never develop mentally beyond age 12.
I mean, if we’re going to cite biology, sexual/physical maturity in humans is a long process. Puberty is just the beginning of it, not the end.
Take away the appeal to tradition and appeal to nature fallacies, and these guys wouldn’t have any argument left.
They’re trying so hard to justify it to themselves, though. Bless their hearts. “Creeping on 13 year old children is just a 100% normal activity that I, a 100% normal person, normally engage 100% in. It’s not at all wrong, which is why I have to constantly reassure myself how 100% normal it is.”
This is a common cry among conservatives. They believe homosexuality and transexuality are perversions (in some cases also divorce and artificial contraception), so if you allow those you are on a slippery slope to pedophilia, in spite of the fact that ages of consent have been generally going up- often pushed by liberals and leftists.
Is it wrong that I believe pedos should be at the very least castrated?
@Cindy
I, unfortunately, have a lot of experience with pedophiles (don’t ask why), and while many of them are human garbage like this guy who are only interested in justifying everything that they want to do so they don’t have to feel guilty about it, a lot of them fully realize and accept that it would be 100% wrong to act on it no matter what, and that it has nothing to do with “society” or whatever, but rather psychology and basic ethics. They know that their desires are pure evil, an unquestionable wrong, but they can’t make it go away, so it’s nearly impossible to live with that and not develop a pretty deep resentment of yourself and everyone else like you. It doesn’t help that 99% of the time you hear people even bring up pedophiles, it’s in an overwhelmingly negative way, and perhaps rightfully so, but it makes you feel like the whole world hates you, and it isn’t long before you feel like you deserve it.
The worst part though, which most people don’t think about, is that it can start really young, cause you can be born with it or, probably in most cases, it can come from some childhood trauma, so by the time you start developing sexual attractions, it’s already too late for you, your life is pretty much over right there. You’re just a kid, but you have to learn how to deal with one of the most serious and heavy subjects there is, completely on your own, because who can you talk to? Who can help you with this? Even as, say, a 14 year old, you’re smart enough to know you can’t tell people this stuff. So now you’re completely on your own, and you have to go through being a teenager, which is confusing and frustrating enough as it is without having to deal with this horrible affliction that you know next to nothing about on top of it, all while you rapidly start to hate yourself and your confidence and self-esteem crumble into dust and you can’t even tell anyone why. It’s a constant internal hell of guilt, shame, self-loathing, uncertainty, and hopelessness, because you know it never goes away, this is your life now.
But lets say, by some miracle, some cosmic mistake, you manage to get over whatever trauma caused this curse on you and you overcome your affliction. Lose the attraction. You are officially “normal”, like you always dreamed…but nothing feels different. Nothing changes. Because all the damage has been done. You lived with the guilt for too long, you absorbed too much hate, your confidence isn’t coming back from the dead, it’s all gone. Essentially, you died a long time ago, your body just hasn’t realized it yet. Now you float through life like a drone, knowing it will never get better, not knowing the point of anything, broken and unfixable. Despite achieving what you thought impossible and realizing your wildest dream, somehow you feel more hopeless than ever. And it didn’t have to be that way, you could have had help, if there was any available, but it’s too late now.
My point is, being a pedophile rots you from the inside, and while some choose to become toxic waste because of it, and deserve every bit of scorn they get and then some for that, others just suffer immensely in silence. Those are generally the ones you don’t hear about though. And I don’t think they deserve more suffering.
@KG
We absolutely should NOT have sympathy or admiration (!!) For pedophiles and your “corrections” on the usage of the term are distractionary at best. David has been notified of your disgusting comment.
I once saw a guy give an argument about Juliet being 13. How it was romantic when Shakespeare wrote about it but creepy when he actually tries to groom a 13 year old and girl and I was like “last time I checked Romeo while he was still to old for her, was 17 and a still a teenage boy, not an adult man.” and if I recall the play correctly the nurse or her mother were really upset about the dad saying the she was old enough to marry. They wanted to wait a few more years with concerns for her health.
Romeo’s age isn’t explicitly stated in the play, only that he was a “young” man. Which puts him anywhere from 13 to 25 by my reckoning ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
Using the “half your age plus seven” rule would make Romeo at 17 still a little too old for Juliet, though. (Eight and a half plus seven makes fifteen and a half.)
Lord Capulet is actually not in favor of marrying Juliet off so early:
To the contrary, Juliet’s mother was pretty chill about marrying her off at thirteen-going-on-fourteen — because she was, too:
And the Nurse is also in favor; she misinterprets Juliet’s line of “It (i.e. marriage) is an honor that I dream not of” as meaning the exact opposite, and reacts approvingly.
In any case, “Romeo and Juliet” is a tragedy, not a romance. The titular characters barely know each other! Six people die in it (Mercutio, Tybalt, Paris, Romeo, Juliet, and Lady Montague), all for stupid reasons!
@Ariblester
It’s been a long time since I read the play and yes it is a tragedy. Just our society still likes to view it as a romance I suppose.
One of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to literature and theater is when people think Romeo and Juliet is romantic and that the two characters represent an ideal couple. Just no.
Please be mindful of the fact that some of the commenters here have been sexually abused, some as minors, and therefore refrain from arguing semantics in a way that seems to be downplaying the seriousness of sexual abuse.
In case anyone was wondering, Roseanne did not learn anything and continues to dig the hole she’s in
http://dlisted.com/2019/03/04/roseanne-barr-returns-to-slam-metoo-accusers/#more-328227
At this rate, she’s headed for a job either in the Trump administration or Fox News.
No worries 🙂. I just thought I’d provide some more context. My last few lines were general snark, not directed at anyone in particular. Sorry if they came off as too strong.
Yeah. At best, they’re a cautionary tale of the folly of youth and the dangers of infatuation. At worst, they’re two lambs sent to the slaughter because of their families’ irrational feud, shepherded along by a priest with an agenda and suspiciously easy access to poisons.
I recall seeing a documentary on YouTube about a town entirely populated by pedophiles in Florida (iirc).
Most of the people who live there are all convicted sex offenders who served their time in prison, but obviously can’t go back home.
However, they have a strict screening process, and one of the things an applicant has to do is admit they were wrong and show remorse.
Those people have more moral fiber than any of these human wastes.
@Dr Thang
Sorry, not buying that “pedophiles are victims of their own urges” shtick.
People from all genders and sexual orientations have to deal with our urges not being fulfilled. Most of us experience being sexually attracted by people who simply do not reciprocate, regardless of their gender and orientation, and ours for that matter.
Being sexually attracted to children is not something that just “happens”. I do get some people may have it in them since they have consciousness or as a result of abuse. But it essentially comes from a predatory mindset, usually not restricted to sex.
Your speech sounds to me like someone who would say: “some people just have an urge to be violent to others, but they refrain from it because they get it’s evil”.
If you have violent thoughts all the time, you have a violent mindset which produce those urges to hit others. If you have sexual thoughts about children, you have a predatory mindset which feeds those urges.
I don’t buy for one second that “it can’t be changed”. Pedophilia is not about sexual attraction to other people, it’s about being turned on by ignorance and vulnerability. That’s predatory, plain and simple, with a side of incapability and/or fear to relate to others as equals who can set their own boundaries and make you respect them.
Totally off-topic, but TMZ and the New York Post are both reporting that Luke Perry has just died.
UPDATE: It’s been confirmed by ABC News and ComicBook.com.
Re: MJ,
I had family living not far from Santa Maria, CA, where one of his trials was held. This particular family member (retired) liked to go to a casino in the Santa Ynez Mountains, and the bus she’d take would pass Neverland. She always told me it creeped her out.
As for MJ’s trial in Santa Maria, I was shocked to see it devolve from a criminal trial to a trial on the manner in which the prosecutors behaved or asked questions. I remember one juror interviewed after the trial who said she thought the prosecuting attorneys were rude in how they asked questions, so that sealed the deal for her, and she voted not guilty. I worked at the time with some MJ fans, and they were delighted with the not guilty verdict. Sigh.
Is contract Jack gone? I thought he was kind of funny for thinking I’m immodest for wearing my laziest outfit that consists of leggings and a hoodie and yet didn’t like the fact that Bookworm is covered up in a way he didn’t approve of. The irony was great and I was kind of hoping he might stick around a bit longer.
RIP, Luke Perry! 🙁