By David Futrelle
The Internet’s incels long ago adopted Isla Vista killer Elliot Rodger, the maladjusted twentysomething who murdered six in cold blood as a kind of revenge for his “involuntary celibacy,” as a patron saint of sorts.
Now they are doing the same with Nikolas Cruz, the Florida teen who allegedly murdered 17 students and teachers at a high school in Parkland, Florida today. On Incels.Me — the web forum that Reddit’s incel population migrated to after the admins at Reddit shut their forum there down — one enthusiastic commenter got the discussion started by posting a thread titled “A hERo rises on this day of incel exclusion (Florida Valentines Day School Shooting).” (All links in this post go to archived pages.)
The capitalized “ER” in “hERo” is of course a reference to Elliot Rodger.
In the thread, assorted incels cheered as the details of the shooting came out over the course of the day, declaring their “immense respect” for their new “HERO.” And some wondered — with more than a little justification — if the shooter wasn’t one of their fellow commenters on Incels.Me.
“Respect to him if he kills over 60 normies,” a commenter called Towncel declared. “Hopefully he isn’t just using 2 pistols and actually has an assault rifle,” he added in a followup comment.
Vman, a prolific commenter with over 2500 posts on the site was already set to declare Cruz his new idol.
holy shit its on valentines day! what a fucking hero! we have a new model! PLZ BE UGLY PLZ BE UGLY. WE NEED INCEL AWARNESS
Spicycurry was a little more reserved. “Watch the news blame incels rather than the femoids who mock us and oppress us,” he groused.
lonelyistheworld has a rather different fear. “The media will probably try to cover up the fact that he’s an Incel,” he complained. “The elites know that there’s a huge problem with lonely men in the west.”
Naturally, many of the commenters hoped that most of the victims would be “femoids.”
“Hope his roastie kill count is high,” Reddit_is_for_cucks opined
Roastie contribute nothing to the society anyway, sll they do is shopping and suck chads dick and get free stuff from cucks
Incel_Dikshit concurred, expressing his hope that the shooter had “snagged some degenerate roasties and depsrate beta orbiters with him.”
“Roastie” is a favorite incel slur for (cis) women, whose labia are thought (by incels) to resemble roast beef.
Many of the commenters took great pleasure in the fact that this murder spree took place on Valentine’s Day. “LIFEFUEL,” declared one. “The best Valentines Day in history buddy boyos.”
When several commenters expressed their uneasiness at this open celebration of mass murder, they were denounced as “Jooz.” Indeed, one prolific commenter called knajjd went so far as to justify the murder of young girls because, in his view
female children can, at best, be considered a timebomb. even if you believe that children are totes innocent creatures, etc. etc. that argument makes no sense since they’ll inevitably develop into roasties.
Comments like these continue for page after page; all of those quoted so far come from the first three pages of what is currently a ten page thread.
It didn’t take long for some of the commenters to wonder if the shooter hadn’t frequented Incels.Me. Several mentioned a recent Incels.Me thread in which a lurker posted an elaborately detailed threat to shoot up his former high school and other schools in the area (including an elementary school north of his high school) on February 12 before escaping by blending in with the those fleeing from the scene.
More than a few of the details match up with what happened today. The alleged shooter today targeted his former high school. There is a middle school northwest of the high school, though it is more west than north. Some reports suggest the shooter escaped the school by blending in with fleeing students. The date of the threatened rampage was only two days different from the actual assault. The gun he reportedly used is similar to, though not the same model as, the one mentioned in the post.
You can see the screenshotted post here.
It’s certainly possible that the threat posted to Incels.Me was nothing more than a fantasy, and that the similarities between it and the events that unfolded today mere coincidence.
EDITED TO ADD: But even if Cruz wasn’t the anonymous commenter on Incels.Me, he may well have thought of himself as an iucel. The Daily Beast reports that someone calling himself Nikolas Cruz left a comment on a YouTube video a year ago declaring that ““Elliot rodger will not be forgotten.” (Meanwhile, a self-described paramilitary white supremacist group in Florida is telling The Beast that Cruz had trained with them.)
Was Cruz an incel, a white supremacist — or both, or neither? The clues to his motivation are certainly unsettling. As is the existence of a forum overloaded with so many bitter, furious young men who look upon mass murder as a kind of righteous retribution for the refusal of “roasties” to offer them sex.
NOTE TO REGULAR READERS: I was planning on returning to regular posts here shortly. I’m sorry it had to be with a story on this horrendous incident.
Pies are in.
It’s far worse in the US than here in the UK, for obvious reasons, but the same pattern is there. (One of the less pleasant tasks in the regiment for officers is keeping track of suicides among our discharges. 🙁 )
Young veterans especially are at risk – the under 29 age group (males 32 per 100k, females 29 per 100k compared to 8 and 3 per 100k for civs) . The suicide risk rockets once the soldier is discharged – rates are roughly at par with civilians for active duty male personnel, slightly above civilian for active duty female personnel due to the more final methods chosen.
Sorry for multiple edits.
I hope this link works because you have to see this. One of the Parkland kids eviserating the NRA advert.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1875672706064573&id=1691667177798461
The idea that someone would be incapable of feeling safe without possessing a firearm is both disturbing and saddening.
Explains quite a few Facebook comments I’ve seen, though.
Alan Robertshaw, could you confirm or debunk that paracetamol suicides have decreased in number since the packaging was changed?
@ Robert
I can’t; but I bet these people can.
http://www.bmj.com/content/346/bmj.f403
@Lucrece,
Fantastic job with the figures; thank you for the efforts!
I’m kind of done with this. If Joaquin is trolling, it’s a revolting choice of topic to play games with. If they’re sincere, they’re not engaging in good faith, and certainly not taking anyone’s points seriously, with the constant goalpost shifting. I mean:
@Hexum, don’t be flippant about male suicide here (or any suicide). It’s not an MRA issue because they don’t care, but it’s definitely a men’s issue and many of us care about it a lot.
Scilfreja:
Finally something we can agree!
I know, moving IS expensive, otherwise i would have done it AGES ago, i’m not discussing that.
My point is, the “West” are pretty much consistent in their policies.
The USA is the only Western country that allows semi-decent gun rights (that National Firearms Act of 1934 is a complete abomination, though).
Are there any other developed contries that can offer the same?
WWTH:
https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gun-control-australia-updated/
I got my numbers from this site, i may have misread the info, i can agree on that.
Alan:
That was a low blow, you know i cannot argue with a victim (not without feeling like a POS). I remind you that gun control has a strong lobby too, at least worldwide.
Back to gun-control:
Think of this: if you cannot prevent drugs or people from entering the country how are you going to prevent the creation of a black market of guns?
How are you going to locate the hundreds of MILLIONS of guns in the USA?
If you have ANY idea, no matter how may it sound, please feel free of sharing it.
Mish:
It’s not like i’m not taking your point seriously or acting on bad faith, but, like i pointed out in my firsts posts, i have a bias on the matter.
I don’t live in a violence free society, for one thing, and no matter how many arguments you may present, the idea of feeling safe by disarming myself seems EXTREMELY counter-intuitive.
I already shared my experience of facing a gun.
Being armed would have changed anything? not sure, but i still feel angry because all i had to protect myself was a damn Swiss Army Knife. Somehow i forgot to tell the other dude that carry a gun without permit was a crime, silly me!
Just one more thing:
Last time i checked a Troll was someone who provokes or offends on PURPOSE.
If anything i feel like i am the one being trolled, i you feel offended by my ideas, consider that i’m not the one trying to stripe you of your constitutional rights!
Good night!
sorry. I should have remembered that my sarcasm ( concerning what MRAs should do about certain male behavior).
I agree with you that that can be a problem for men.
But…. suicide is not a male issue in any case. More women attempt suicide than men. If anything, that makes it a woman’s issue. Not that it’s a competition, but it’s a people problem, not a gendered issue. MRAs never seem to mention that stat about women, somehow.
If men are just better at killing things, including themselves, we have a problem. One that could easily be allieved with him gun controls in place
@joaquin,
So, I present to you a litany of things you were wrong about, and your reply is “see, I’m right”?
I’m going to try to be gentle here, but what I have to say is sort of harsh. I apologize.
You aren’t motivated by facts, you’re motivated by fear. By your own admission. Fear compels you to arm yourself, fear compels you to get angry about anyone who suggests guns should be controlled. Fear makes you think that the death of schoolchildren in horrible shootings is an acceptable loss in order to quell your anxieties. You’re afraid.
And you have good reasons to have that fear – in the place you live. In the United States, reasons for owning a gun are different, and generally they’re the source of problems. They’re far from the solutions to those problems.
You have every right to be afraid – like you said, you live in a society with a lot of violence in it. And that’s awful, you don’t deserve that. But that’s not the situation that the United States is in. The violence in the United States isn’t systemic gang warfare or cartels or things like that. It’s normal everyday conflict, barfights and brawls and domestic violence, just where many people involved have a fucking gun. The vast majority of these people wouldn’t go get a gun if they weren’t so easy to buy. And we know that, because in other societies with the same traits, but with gun controls, they don’t buy them.
The facts are in, and in the broadest strokes of the brush, they paint clearly. Gun control laws work in reducing homicide and suicide deaths. Gun control does not significantly impact freedom. Diffusion of guns across borders is not generally significant enough to reduce the success of gun control.
(And regarding your factcheck article, it supports by way of correlation the position that gun control is an effective tactic in reducing homicides. Did you read it? The fact that a scientific study doesn’t find conclusive evidence doesn’t mean it finds no evidence.)
I’m really sorry you live in a place where guns are more prevalent, and violence more systemic. You don’t deserve that. No one does. But don’t begrudge the United States solutions for reducing its own violence because you can’t imagine it working where you live. Your anxieties are clouding your vision on this one.
May your fears leave the harbour in your heart and never return. I hope you stay safe.
Eeeemmmm and what motivates the people who want gun control?
The death of schoolchildren IS a tragedy, but car accidents and diseases kill many more, we could also focus on that, or Mental Care, i don’t know.
And i still don’t have an answer regarding the effectiveness of a gun ban or some other measure, the failure of the War on Drug does not make me very optimist.
Laughter at Bigots:
It is the same guy.
Good memory/eye.
@PeeVee
Honest question (and much respect about it) – how the fuck do you remember them all? They blur together for me into a boring sameness.
Alan Robertshaw, thank you; that is very much appreciated.
Shadowplay,
Well, this one was particularly easy, as Laughter linked it, and the quilted avis matched, lol. (Even though he used two different emails to generate 2 different quilt avis.)
But (unfortunately) I have a good memory for the bad things people repeat online.
Sounds like it could be a wee bit of a curse at times. 🙁
Sorry, was just curious as to if it was native talent or fearsome organisation! 🙂
Shadowplay,
It is a bit of a curse, at times, lol.
But it does help to bust trolls.
But for sockpuppet-busting expertise, WWTH and SFHC are the absolute best at it!
They do rock! 🙂 You three make one hell of a troll team. Know I appreciate you all.
So, how long before Joaquin pops up in another thread screaming that feminists don’t care about male suicide and/or suicide rates prove that men are oppressed and feeemales aren’t? A week, maybe two?
It isn’t a men’s RIGHTS issue is what I meant.
What I hate most about this is that MRAs use the deaths of men as a talking point, To chide society for not doing anything specific about it, all the while knowing that there is plenty of work (not enough, perhaps, but plenty) being done in a genderless manner. To present it as a men’s issue is to suggest that female victims do not suffer as much, and are less important
Of course we should all care. That’s the point of talking about it, isnt it?
There was a moment when I realise that, in a war of words, there’s no such thing as debellatio: that some people will simply ignore whatever you say and continue blurting their rancid thoughts all over everyone, like the end of Akira but with rhetoric. You cannot win, because there is no mutually-agreed concept of victory. You can just keep fighting more and more pointlessly.
Joaquin:
You have said your piece. Despite your best attempts, you have failed to convince. We have said our piece. We, evidently, have also failed to convince. Further words on either part would be of limited use. You may depart now.
If it is important to you, you may regard this as being honourable on your part. Perhaps you may believe that we could not handle your truthbombs, or some other nice story; whatever makes you happy.
@ joaquin
But we do! Just about every time there’s a safety issue spotted with vehicles, legislation is introduced to mitigate against further deaths.
http://mentalfloss.com/article/28155/how-jayne-mansfield-changed-design-tractor-trailers
Same with disease. That’s why there’s medical research.
It’s not a zero sum game. It’s not like we’re going to say “Ok doctors, stop working on those new vaccines, we need you to set up a firearms registry”
EJ:
Agreed, it’s a moot point, i just learned that mass shooting represent 2% of gun related deaths, according to a gun control site.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/2/21/17028930/gun-violence-us-statistics-charts
So yes, i disagree with you, none of the points you raise are valid to me, but whatever.
And where did i blamed feminists for suicides and all that? can you find any post where i expressed such a thing?
I don’t care about feminists do with their lives anymore.
But but it seems YOU haven’t given up on attacking other people’s Constitutional rights.
Joaquin sputtered out:
Aaannnd…I’m bored of this now. Just go away – you’re clearly on the wrong blog (see: comments above) and your debating skills are terrible, which makes you very uninteresting.
Come back when…how’s never for you?
I’ve been away a bit, so I’ve missed the replies here. Shame, that! I’ll do that now.
The desire to minimize homicide and injury, by reducing the availability of murder weapons.
C’mon, now.
Turns out we can do all of those thing simultaneously!
As the inestimable Alan pointed out, we already require licencing, insurance and registration for cars. Howabout we just do the same for guns? Have to take a test beforehand, have to register your firearms, have to take out firearm-insurance. I think that’s an awesome idea.
Diseases? We do that too. Country-wide immunization programs, yearly vaccination-drives to get people to vaccinate, all of that. I agree, let’s do more of it!
Mental care is something that’s desperately needed, I completely agree. We don’t do nearly enough. We need to provide way better mental health care, and we need to reduce the stigma of mental illness.
We can do all of these things, despite your suggestion that it’s an either-or problem. It’s not.
(Your fallacy, incidentally, is called the false dilemma. It’s common when emotions are high, or when one is depressed or stressed.)
The US certainly has deeper issues than just a blanket gun control law, I’ll give you that. There’s a culture of gun worship in the United States, it seems, and a culture of violence that goes along with it. That would have to be addressed as well. I’m not sure how to deal with that, it’s a tough problem.
The literature isn’t sure about how effective gun control is in the United States; some papers claim it works and others claim it does not. This is in the context of a state-by-state control system, however, and I can’t really find much to suggest the study of a nation-wide control system. Other countries which have done so have had good results, in general.
None of the results I’ve seen, of the US-centric analyses, have come to the conclusion that gun control would increase homicide rates, though. So the scientific community is currently landing between “not sure” and “probably effective”.
That’s where the science is on it! Now you know.
I’m going to guess that that won’t convince you, though. Just a hunch.
Have a lovely day!
For a non-American, you certainly seem to have a boner for the 2nd Amendment. Not that it actually says what gun fetishists think it does or anything, but it’s pretty funny.
All of your posts are pretty much just a combination of these two images
http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/img_7127.jpg
+
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/america-boner.gif
=
Joaquin
@Scild
To be fair, the US has both large animals and a hunting culture. And while I personally don’t love the idea of hunting, it does give some people an entire year of meat who may have struggled to afford red meat otherwise.
No need for things like AR-15s though.
@Joaquin
So, you say that you want a gun because you had a gun pointed at your head, but I’m really struggling to understand how a gun would have helped you in the situation you described. Do you think that a criminal, who already had his gun out and pointed at you, would have sat and waited for you to get your gun out and shoot him? Are you just going to walk around town with your gun out and pointed at everyone, just in case someone may think about pulling a gun on you? What, exactly would be your plan be here?