By David Futrelle
It’s a rarity in this year of terrible, but tonight has been a night of actual good news! Dems are winning elections, and Reddit has banned the toxic cesspool known as the Incels subreddit! Celebrate while you can in this open thread!
No trolls. Fuck trolls.
This is the first time a wall of news notifications hasn't been a nightmare in god knows how long pic.twitter.com/NpTaW5QK6e
— Ashley Feinberg (ashleyfeinberg.bsky.social) (@ashleyfeinberg) November 8, 2017
Dems have won all three of the marquee off-year races — NJGov, VAGov, NYC Mayor — for the first time since 1989.
— David Weigel (@daveweigel) November 8, 2017
Democrats decimated Republicans across the country tonight, at every level and in every branch of state government.
— Seth Abramson (@SethAbramson) November 8, 2017
Thanks, Trump!
And this is the icing on the cake:
Trans woman Danica Roem (D) just defeated anti-LGBTQ candidate Bob Marshall (R) in Virginia, becoming the first trans state legislator in America.
— Laura Bassett (@LEBassett) November 8, 2017
The man who wrote the anti-trans bathroom bill just lost the election to a trans woman. Let that sink in. https://t.co/KFEZXSYvMy
— Laura Bassett (@LEBassett) November 8, 2017
Oh, and there’s this:
Jeff Sessions' DOJ Drops Prosecution Of Woman Who Laughed At Jeff Sessions https://t.co/slOPOhmLYN pic.twitter.com/ekRsU1RJAq
— Curt and Frank 🏳️🌈 (@curtandfrank) November 7, 2017
Let’s all celebrate by laughing at Jeff Sessions!
Meanwhile, on Reddit:
Reddit has banned the Incels subreddit. About fucking time; it was a cesspool of misogyny and violent hate. pic.twitter.com/8RieXtxZLN
— David Futrelle (@DavidFutrelle) November 8, 2017
HEALTH NOTE: Though cheered by tonight’s news, I’m still dealing with a shitstorm of health issues. I will return to regular posting as soon as I can, but I’m not sure when that will be. Thanks again for your patience and your support!
Excellent. My comment in that article was both relevant and bait. I got what I wanted. I’m trying to better define what it is I’m doing.
One aspect of it is that I feel nothing unbearable when they insult me and during the exchanges, I think it’s routine-breaking anxiety. That’s useful. I always get amused when they insult me and enjoy taking that apart.
The first four commentators were different flavors of strawman among other things. One of them is doing “obviously mentally ill” and I’m preparing a good shame for that one. The pure personal mockery is fun but of secondary interest.
The resistance they have to directly quoting the accuser is a vulnerability and a pressure point since they claim to be about evidence. That resistance overwhelmngly seems extends to you when you they come to challenge. This can be worked with.
@WWTH
Please don’t shut up. I love your posts. And agree with you.
Seconded!
@Jesalin
It’s simpler and less ominous than that. Addicts are people. People have an absolutely amazing ability to justify their wants and desires in the first place – addiction co-opts this ability for it’s own benefit. I know it seems like I’m giving addiction the attributes of a living being there – because the fucker is alive.
Can I ask you nicely not to say this sort of thing, please? It’s not true (certainly for alcohol, anyway, and some drugs – the ones that rewire your nervous system). There is no such thing as cured. There is only containment.
I know it’s a fussy thing to pick up, but thinking “I’m cured” almost inevitably leads to thinking “one drink won’t hurt.” After all, what damage can it do? I’m cured! And the fall off the wagon commences. After 8 years sober, this is something I know in my soul. Which is why I’m 8 years sober (and why my sponsor is 30 years sober).
Agree.
Edit to add: Thirded!
Thanks again for the thoughts all. And I love the wombat 🙂
On this continuing saga, not only did these people not call me at the last minute, nor call and offer any flimsy excuses, – they didn’t call me at all. And “getting together” to “do something for mom” – was their idea.
And then they blow me off?
🙁
But. These people always disliked me for reasons I cannot discern, they might feel guilt that I did it all, not only for my mom, but for my grandma too, when she was elderly. We (me and my mom) took care of her.
I’d say they’re maybe not capable of such insight, but they are rather over emotional and high strung, and educated people, so you’d think some thoughts about their past asshole behavior might creep in….
But they’re the types to lash out and blame others, anyway, I already know what kind of people they are, so I never expected much.
And with this, they have confirmed my thoughts.
@ Laurel G,
I thought of the above for you too, I think it’s great that you’re willing to give the benefit of the doubt to people, that’s a good trait to have, don’t worry.
And so is being open minded, but that goes both ways. When you see or experience people behaving in ways you didn’t think possible, you have to recognize that too.
Which it does look like you are able to, so I think you’ll be fine 🙂
It’s always great to see someone too, who does take the time to question and try to be open minded. This is a good thing.
Be open minded enough to allow for any other possibility too…..
Goes for all things too. It looks like you know this LG, and I’m sure you’ll do fine carrying on as you are 🙂
It’s hard too, to find out we may be wrong about people. What I think is the more practical application here, – celebrities? Most of us don’t interact with them. So don’t get too crushed over them. Pay more attention to who you deal with in everyday life.
Potential BF, GF, SO, or even job or school opportunity – seems great!
Be careful. Due diligence. Do your own research. Be careful. No need to be fearful of things either, just keep your eyes open and think.
I think you’re fine LG, don’t worry 🙂
@WWTH
Addiction treatment does suck. I can’t see how leaving your concerns out fixes it.
@Z&T
My Mom used to say “If you could pick your family, there’d be a lot less pain in the world.” Smart woman, she was.
Get the lawyer sorted out? I’m following your problem and sending you good wishes – just not great at expressing sympathy.
Also forget that thing about court jester, gadfly is closer. I’m trying to see what I attract.
Gal Gadot Will Reportedly Leave the Wonder Woman Universe Unless Brett Ratner Is Fired
Page Six isn’t exactly reliable, but I can believe this, it fits her. And she’s at the one moment where she has the clout to succeed.
(Why yes, I do admire her. 😛 )
@ Shadowplay,
Thanks for your thoughts. Yes we’re getting there on the paperwork.
Your mom does indeed sound like a wise person 🙂
Well, I sure didn’t mean I’d shut up permanently! Just that it’s kind of obnoxious to criticize the way things are when you aren’t offering a great solution. Other than making mental health care free or cheap so that people are less likely to abuse substances as self medication… I don’t know what to do about it.
Not that I think it’s likely that Weinstein or Spacey are actually sex addicts or that being a sex addict excuses sexual harassment though.
Actually on topic 😛
A rather nice profile of Andrea Jenkins. She sounds rather amazing.
@Jesalin
“1. I think the high failure rate is built-in. “
Interesting, but what’s your evidence or reasoning behind this?
” 2. You’re only cured when you can be around the problem substance and not feel compelled to drink/smoke/etc.”
No No Nope nope no. Once you have a particular pathway in your brain, it never really goes away. I’m not saying that you can’t strengthen or weaken pathways by either using them or not, but the brain isn’t quite so pliable that a problematic pathway ever disappears.
Or….
“thinking “I’m cured” almost inevitably leads to thinking “one drink won’t hurt.” After all, what damage can it do? I’m cured! And the fall off the wagon commences. After 8 years sober, this is something I know in my soul. Which is why I’m 8 years sober (and why my sponsor is 30 years sober).”-Shadowplay
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS FRAME THIS SHIT UP AND PUT IT ON THE WALL THIS.
Oh and Shadowplay, CONGRATS. 🙂
“Rape and other inappropriate behaviour towards women are not, are never a case of addiction and no rehab treatment is ever going to make a difference.”
I agree! I wrote a whole paragraph about how sex addiction is the new “drinking problem” that rich white men use to weasle out of accountability. And both sex addiction and alchoholism and drug addiction still exist, and most sex addicts and alcoholics and herion addicts still aren’t sexual assailants, or murderers, or abusive.
I like to think that someday men like Weinstein will stand in front of the pearly gates, and on their long, long list of abuses that they will be punished for, they will burn for delegitimizing a mental illness to a point where sufferers feel they have to rely on reddit self-help groups to get *any* help for compulsive masturbation.
“Nymphomania, or more accurately, hypersexuality, is a different animal altogether.”
Hypersexuality is a symptom, not a disease itself. And not all sex addicts have a high libido.
“4. Sex addiction is bullshit, it does not exist. It’s an excuse.”
Anything that releases dopamine has the potential to dysregulate your brain’s reward circuitry and become addictive if it’s done enough, whether it’s sex, spending, gambling, gaming, or surfing the internet. I wish it wasn’t true, but it is.
But if you want to argue, I’m giving you a big [citation needed]. Here, I’ll get you started;
“Moreover, we reviewed available neuroscientific literature on Internet pornography addiction and connect the results to the addiction model. The review leads to the conclusion that Internet pornography addiction fits into the addiction framework and shares similar basic mechanisms with substance addiction. Together with studies on Internet addiction and Internet Gaming Disorder we see strong evidence for considering addictive Internet behaviors as behavioral addiction. Future research needs to address whether or not there are specific differences between substance and behavioral addiction.”
“A revolutionary paradigm shift is occurring in the field of addiction that has great implications for assessment and treatment. While “addiction” has historically been associated with the problematic overconsumption of drugs and/or alcohol [1], the burgeoning neuroscientific research in this field has changed our understanding over the last few decades. It is now evident that various behaviors, which are repeatedly reinforcing the reward, motivation and memory circuitry are all part of the disease of addiction [2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10]. Common mechanisms among addiction involving various psychoactive substances such as alcohol, opioids and cocaine; and pathological behaviors such as uncontrolled gambling, internet use, gaming, pornography and sexual acting out have also been delineated.
As a result of the growing neuroscientific evidence, the American Society of Addiction Medicine (ASAM) formally expanded their definition of addiction in 2011 to include both behaviors and substances:
“-NCBI
And So On
@WWTH
“One of the big problems with trying to ban sexy attire IMO is that sexiness is so subjective and a lot of times people are turned on by attire that isn’t skimpy or tight.”
Fair point, but I also think that the vast majority of straight men will find women in bikinis and tight leggings sexually arousing, and the vast majority of straight women will find men in tight pants sexually arousing. Since sex addicts have a “reboot” period where they’re not supposed to masturbate, and during which many try to refrain from sexual fantasy, I think it’s fair enough to ban the things that most would find arousing. I mean, it’s not like it takes much when you haven’t masturbated in weeks*.
I just can’t stress enough that it is rehab, it’s not like I’m in favor of banning sexy clothes, porn, bars, or scratch ticket machines outside of rehab.
“I should say that I’m skeptical in general of the way that inpatient addiction and eating disorder treatment centers control every aspect of patients lives.”
I think food addiction is a lot different than other addictions because you can go your life without having sex again, or masturbating again, or gambling again, but you still have to eat 3 times a day or you’ll be dead within weeks.
And I agree that the level of control they have is infantilizing, but some things are just dumb to expose addicts to when they are just trying to take their very first baby steps out of addiction. Like I wonder if they have scales in these places? I hope not, you know, walk before you run and all that.
@kupo
“Still do not appreciate the condescending tone towards me wrt the straw argument you made up for me, but whatever.
Well I was annoyed and confused, but I wasn’t trying for “condensending”. Sorry kupo, my bad.
*If it seems like I have personal experience with this, I tried to go nofap in support of a friend that was having some problems. It was a “fun” month.
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
People forget that all of us, all the time, play roles dictated as much by our circumstances as by our decision or volition or morality. It’s only when we consciously and conscientiously examine our place in our world and the roles we expect, and are expected, to play that we can be fully aware of our own and others’ behaviours and the way they are influenced or dominated by other people and the roles they play, find themselves in or actively choose to play.
The role we most often occupy is bystander. The other main roles are bully and victim. (you can also include allies as sub-categories of all three groups.)
There’s a great book about schoolyard bullying that explicates some of the weird stuff teachers have to deal with. (My husband came home spluttering from work one day. The previous day, he and other teachers had intervened on behalf of a kid who was being bullied mercilessly. That day, he’d had to intervene when that kid was himself part of a group setting on another poor victim. I told him to read what was on our own shelves.)
The most important thing is to recognise not-quite-schoolyard-blatant bullying for what it is in workplaces, social groups and families. And not to be a bystander. That book leads onto specific strategies that can be used in schools which aren’t necessarily applicable to any but the worst kind of workplaces. However, the underlying principle that the main people to empower and to encourage are bystanders – not to support bullies or their allies, to silently, or openly support victims wherever possible, is applicable everywhere.
Bullying is either the road to acquisition of social power or a “natural” component of many people’s idea of what it is to be a powerful person. Name it, call it out, ally with the oppressed victims if you can. Support people who – eventually – find the courage to speak up on their own or others’ behalf.
@WWTH
This sounds like a great solution to me. I know it wouldn’t eliminate substance abuse altogether but boy would it help. Not to mention all the other issues it would help with, like homelessness.
It would certainly help. Not as much as you might think for those who are full on hooked, as the biggest stumbling block to an addict getting any sort of treatment (I’m in the UK – we HAVE free mental health care, as overloaded as it is) isn’t the availability of treatment. It’s the addict themselves.
You know the phrase rock bottom? It holds true – an addict will generally not seek treatment until they hit rock bottom. Further, it doesn’t matter if friends, family, strangers, think someone is rock bottom – it’s the addict themselves who has to think that. And people are remarkable adept at ignoring things and keeping on digging. It’s one of the reasons that court ordered rehab has such a dismal success rate.
Now, opening up about mental health in the first place is a powerful tool. Catch the potential addicts (many of whom are using to make things they may not even be able to define somewhat bearable) before they are completely hooked. Make it perfectly OK for someone to say to themselves “OK, I’m hitting the bottle a bit hard. Why?” and find answers.
Just my thoughts. Consider it my witness 😛
Anyone else seen this? Facebook is working with our e-safety commish on a new strategy to deal with revenge porn. It involves sending your nude/sexy pics to … Facebook so they can hash them to prevent uploads. What could go wrong?
@Shadowplay, thx for your comments on addiction. They’re appreciated ?
Anyone even mildly tech savvy knows how to defeat that anyway. Append a random byte to the file — most formats ignore that — or re-encode with different compression quality and blammo, different hash. If it’s an image similarity metric (not really a “hash” but sometimes called that) those are usually defeatable by small amounts of rotation, or adding a watermark to the image, or other alterations.
How do I know this? Because this sort of thing has already been tried, heavily, by deep-pocketed groups: the MPAA and RIAA and others trying to prevent online copyright infringement. Futilely.
@mrex and everyone else
I shouldn’t have left that last line out of my quote. Apologies for any confusion caused. My assumption was that it referred to the “sex-addicts” themselves and I thought that less offensive than asking other people to dress “modestly”. But I realize now that that’s not necessarily the case. Plus selectively quoting is always bad and I should know that. So, my bad.
@Shadowplay
Congratulations!
Maybe they should just try to develop an algorithm that prevents uploading anything with nipples…
@LittleLurker
No worries. I can understand where the offense comes from, and if the rehab didn’t treat sex addicts I would be furious. Think I was being a little too pissy myself, but I feel a little sour whenever it seems like people may be discounting behavioral addictions. My bad as well!
Now I wonder, do they advise sex addicts to abstain from any sexual activity forever? I imagine they’d rather try to teach self-control and moderation.
It’s possible to live without masturbating, but you probably can’t avoid being frequently exposed to temptation, depending on what turns you on. I suspect the main challenge would be controlling your sexual thoughts and internet browsing, rather than physical masturbation, let alone partnered or predatory sexual behaviors.
@Arctic Ape
My guess is that the short answer to that would be completly abstaining from everything is temporary until the addict can finish going through psychological withdrawal*, but the long answer would be that every addict is different, and if masturbation triggers a relapse, then it probably is worth it to avoid it forever.
Although, I’m not a sex addiction specialist, and I don’t know if this ever really happens. But I will say this, self-control goes out the window once addiction comes into play. And behavioral Addiction doesn’t respond to self control any more than drug addiction.
Addiction also doesn’t cause predatory or abusive behavior. These guys are making a category error to get out of trouble, and a stupid one at that. Just think about it;addiction isn’t curable. If they’re being predatory because of “addiction”, they should be shot on the spot, because they’ll never be cured, and even in jail they just won’t be able to stop preying on their fellow inmates or the cops and people working in jail either.
They can’t have it both ways. They can’t claim to be unable to control poor behavior in some cases, but then be perfectly capable of controlling themselves when there’s consequences.
*Yes sex addicts can go through psychological withdrawal just like you see with other psychological withdrawals like with cocaine and gambling. They feel like shells of people, sleepless, etc.
Latest from Paul Elam:
I’m confused; what does the ‘A’ stand for in MRA again?
Holy crap, Lars Von Trier’s studio sounds like an awfully toxic place. And look at this quote from Peter Aalbæk Jensen, allegedly the main abuser there:
“It’s ok for me to sexually harrass and bully people because I’m an adored leader” is what you hear in a cult compound, not a company.