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MRAs: It’s unfair that more women than men go to college. Also MRAs: College is for suckers!

Also MRAs: The gender imbalance in college is MISANDRY

By David Futrelle

Found this meme on Twitter, posted by Lauren Southern, the horrendous alt-right islamophobe antifeminist who may not technically be an MRA (I don’t know if she’s ever called herself one) but is certainly MRA adjacent. I’ve seen numerous MRAs, including some who complain endlessly that there are more women than men in college, making essentially the same argument.

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GenJones
GenJones
3 years ago

I find it ironic that so many alt-right people claim to appreciate their heritage, but shit on the humanities. Oh, you’re just referring to your color group “identity”, but studying and preserving the rich cultural history of literature, art and philosophy is useless liberal crap.

Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
3 years ago

A co-worker of mine went to one of the for-profit tech schools so beloved of our Sec/Education… his skillset (computer drafting) was 4 years out if date when he graduated because the school’s software hadn’t been upgraded. Luckily, my workplace hadn’t upgraded OUR software for four years….

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

TheKND:

because surgeons are meatheads

I suspect you have a million stories, none of which you can tell!

Oh, and thank-you for your service.

This Handle is a Test
This Handle is a Test
3 years ago

Two things on the trades vs degree debate:. On the one hand the average salary of degrees get inflated due to being a mean (two finance fucks getting $20 mill each covers a lot of teachers earning less after five years than they did when they started). On the other, the elephant in he room for high paying trades is that it is very hard on the body and likely few could work until 62-65. With the decline of unions and their pensions who’s going to cover shortfalls in retirement and healthcare? Not that it’s the plan but I could be an accountant part-time until I’m 70 if I had to, that is an unlikely option for a trades worker.

Nanny Oggs Bosom
Nanny Oggs Bosom
3 years ago

My Dad, after years in trades, now teaches health and safety, and black trades (welding, plating, that sort of stuff – the name comes from trades that basically started out as the stuff blacksmiths did); he had to stop working on the tools in his early fifties because if the heavy wear and tear on his joints and his back is seriously messed up. He usually has three or four girls or women in a class of ten. They are chosen on their skills and drive.

He regularly tells me how proud he is of the girls, because back when he was an apprentice girls just didn’t go into the trades, and he’s seen an increase of women going into traditionally masculine trades. He says 16 year old girls are usually easier to teach and more sensible than the boys, especially around the dangerous stuff. They listen more and take notice. He was particularly proud of a ‘farmer’s daughter’ who was top of the class a couple of years ago.

I went to university before the fees got shoved up ridiculously high, I didn’t pay fees because of a low family income and got a full loan entitlement, as well as a few grants for being from a low income family. I think I’m £15,000 in debt for my BSc Natural Sciences (chemistry and earth sciences), and by the time I’m finished my MA Creative Writing it’ll be up to £25,000. Not bad for two degrees.

I’m sure these MRA twits would say I’m doing a humanities post-grad degree because I couldn’t make it in STEM. On the other hand, the truth is I’m doing my MA in creative writing because I enjoy writing. I’m broke because I’m ill and can’t work, not because I did a ‘degree in something stupid’. Ooh, I got a whole £7 in royalties for my first novel today!

Every penny spent on my education has been worth it; university is more than the time spent in lectures and seminars. It’s the first experience of living independently for a lot of people, usually away from their home environment. It’s the chance to meet people who are different from you and what you’re used to. It’s experiences from activities and the chance to grow emotionally as well as intellectually. MRAs probably wouldn’t think they are valuable because they can’t be monetised.

Citizen Rat
Citizen Rat
3 years ago

@Knitting Cat Lady

I’m hoping to apply to a Master’s degree in Germany next year. Not only is it much more affordable than a MBA in the States but I’d come out of it with a third language.

“Women are not made for STEM” is such bullcrap. The students who were consistently top-of-the-class when I was studying Chemical Engineering were mostly all women.

epitome of incomprehensibility

University fees in the States are punishingly high, but how do you go from there to “people who choose university must be stupid, especially women, who all study useless things”?

Also, bullet points are generally meant to be read vertically, not horizontally (in the absence of other indicators). So, since “Doesn’t give a shit” is right under “Makes $70k a year”, we can assume Mark doesn’t care about his salary. 🙂

Vicious Babushka
Vicious Babushka
3 years ago

“Got a 4-year degree in something stupid”

Only stupid people think mathematics is stupid.

NicolaLuna
NicolaLuna
3 years ago

So I’m currently doing a degree in Environmental Science, working full time and being a single mum to 2 boys. And every time I get a good result back on my assignments it’s going to feel even sweeter knowing that I’m misandering all over the place 😀

I’d like to see any of the MRAs juggle that much stuff. Paul Elam can’t manage one thing at a time, let alone 3.

epitome of incomprehensibility

I think I’m £15,000 in debt for my BSc Natural Sciences (chemistry and earth sciences), and by the time I’m finished my MA Creative Writing it’ll be up to £25,000. Not bad for two degrees.

@Nanny Oggs Bosom – this still sounds expensive to me! But your fields of study are cool (as if you needed approval from a random person, but still)!

I applied for a similar program after my undergrad – didn’t get in, but I ended up taking an MA in literature. The academic degree is needed for my current job, but a Creative Writing MA (or MFA, at is it in some programs) teaches you a lot about publishing and gives you the impetus and guidance to complete a longer work. Plus, as you said about school in general,

It’s the chance to meet people who are different from you and what you’re used to. It’s experiences from activities and the chance to grow emotionally as well as intellectually.

I miss having the writing workshops that I had in my undergrad – luckily, I found an awesome writer in my community who does non-pricey ones, and I’ve taken two of her writing classes this year.

About university costs. I’d also like them to be free, or at least affordable. You can’t solve income inequality without addressing systemic racism and education fees (thinking of you, Trump, and not in a fond way). Even if lower university costs lower the “value” of a degree in some fields, the greater access to education is more than worth it.

Luckily I was born in Quebec and did my BA here (at Concordia) – I could pay for most of it myself. I went to Ontario for my MA, and even with salary from tutoring and being a teaching assistant, I ended up owing $6,000 to my dad, which took me 2 years to pay back. Still not much compared to some student debt.

MrsObedMarsh
MrsObedMarsh
3 years ago

I can’t decide whether to be amused by or mad at this guy:
comment image

Latte Cat
Latte Cat
3 years ago

It’s like when children complain that their sibling/friend has something they don’t, not because they like that thing, just because the others have something they don’t.

Imaginary Petal
Imaginary Petal
3 years ago

@Buttercup

Thank you. 🙂

Schnookums Von Ghostface Fancypants Killer
Schnookums Von Ghostface Fancypants Killer
3 years ago

Whenever the MRAs get all STEMlord and suchlike I always like to remind myself “Admiral Grace Hopper would fuck their shit up. With Mathematical Precision, even.”

Talonknife
Talonknife
3 years ago

I’m literally sitting in the middle of my university campus as I read this. Most of the ladies I know on campus are doing way more difficult degrees than me (although to be fair, I haven’t actually declared a major yet…)

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

MrsObedMarsh:

I can’t decide whether to be amused by or mad at this guy:

Holy crap, I hope that’s not real, because, damn! I’ve been holding doors for people, regardless of gender, since around the time doors were invented, and it appears there are whole areas of door-holding dynamics I was woefully unaware of. Not once have I thought that it implied some kind of power differential, or that it was an economic transaction. I have wasted my life!

Does “amousing” mean “amusing and arousing”?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Mrs Obed Marsh,

I’m going with both.

On the one hand, fuck him for getting angry at someone for being polite to him. It takes a special amount of entitlement to think women are conspiring to tear him down via door holding emasculation.

On the other hand, the irony is pretty hilarious. Anti-feminists often trade almost certainly apocryphal stories about angry feminists yelling at them for holding a door. Yet, it’s one of their fellow manospherians who is the one ranting about the horrors of having a door held for them.

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
3 years ago

Why don’t incels just become sex workers then? Doesn’t that tick all the boxes?

Z&T
Z&T
3 years ago

Hi again all 🙂

Relatively new here too and haven’t posted lately because I have been helping my sick friend. Yes the &T half of we miscreants. She’s better now.

We both did study mechanical engineering in school. This is an urban area with enough (more so then, than now) mfg. and as others said about ‘trades’, people in mfg. often wind up there due to relatives too.

Or you’re directed that way via college academic counselors.

It isn’t that difficult, don’t let people scare you away!

@ Virgin Mary –

You inspired a few thoughts too, I was remembering that you said you grew up in a (my paraphrasing) ‘conservative’ area, with a ‘religious’ family?

We here came from “conformist suburban” areas too. Might not be exact same, but from what I see you say – the attitudes are similar.

We got out 🙂

And since you mentioned music, I was thinking of one of my faves –

And for this performance, where she stood in for Kurt Cobain, the only introduction needed – was her name 🙂

Ladies and Gentlemen …..Joan Jett

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
3 years ago

This incel dangleberry wants the Canadian government to issue him with a white woman.

comment image

Wonder what the PM did with his letter?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

At the risk of being all Americasplainy, I’m going to go ahead and tell him how the women of Canada and Justin Trudeau feel about this proposal

comment image

The pink pussy specification was particularly retch inducing.

MrsObedMarsh
MrsObedMarsh
3 years ago

Moggie: I’ve also been in the habit of holding doors for people since I was a kid.

I wonder how many people we’ve pissed off over the years.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
3 years ago

@Virgin Mary Probably the PM’s staff had a good laugh before shredding it. 😀

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

I like the assumption that Megan knows who Mark even is. There’s no explanation for how they know each other. I mean, they probably didn’t go to college together. What’s the connection, and why would she be so incensed by his educational path?

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
3 years ago

@z&t

I got out, but I still get angry and upset about all the pain they put me through, even siding with my dad when he beat me because it was discipline. I’ve just found out this week my cousin has a boyfriend, and I’m happy for him even though he hasn’t spoken to me for 19 years, since he was persecuted for being gay and had to marry a woman under false pretences. The sad thing is that they had a son who he isn’t allowed to see, the whole thing would have been different if he was allowed to be honest about his sexuality in the first place. 🙁

Paradoxical Intention - Leader of the Deathclaw Damsels

This is the song that never ends

Yes it loops on and on my friends

Some jerkass started singing it

not caring what it was

And he just goes on and on just because

this is the song that never ends [ad infinitum]

In good job news though, I have an interview at a temp agency on Monday! It’s a small step, and it’s not really a promise of a job in my field, but it’s a start!

I also applied to the state university since they needed a designer.

DerangedDan
DerangedDan
3 years ago

Can we add “nautical murder enthusiast” to Southern’s credentials? She was one of the bigger names behind the alt-right murderboat, at least until she got kicked off Patreon for it. Not sure if she’s still backing it.

History Nerd
History Nerd
3 years ago

Conservatives tend to argue that career/vocational education is better because you’re learning actual job skills. That’s true that you’re learning job skills, but you’re typically learning a limited set of skills that apply only in a specific field. Once that skill set becomes obsolete though, you can end up in a bad situation and it can get really hard to switch careers. Lots of people went into educational programs focused entirely on magnetic tape data storage or other electronics systems that nobody uses nowadays. Plus, many career/vocational programs don’t give accurate employment statistics, they might not track whether people get placed in skilled or unskilled positions, often there’s little data on whether graduates advance or stay employed in their fields, etc.

Another issue is that there’s more of a focus on bootcamps and various “alternatives to college” that you can complete in just a few months. Traditionally, people were told to be very skeptical of any program you can complete in just a few months unless it’s advertised as a few courses. Even if you can get through all the work in a 4 year program in a few months, you’re going to get less out of it than if you took more time. Your brain needs time to learn something.

A liberal arts degree can be better for improving your ability to learn new skills if you challenge yourself to learn the theoretical foundations while you’re in college, and many employers only care that you graduated and have a bachelor’s degree. You don’t necessarily need to find work in your major field for college to help you in your career. Though I wouldn’t say that whether you go to college somehow determines your worth or that everyone needs a 4 year degree.

Steven Dutch
Steven Dutch
3 years ago

Juniper posted: “Last week we had our district meeting, and one of the things discussed was how 61% of our students are female and 49% are male.”

I take it there were no math professors on the panel?

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

Maybe 10% were nonbinary and identified as both?

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
3 years ago

@Axe – Obviously Mark is fixing Megan’s toilet, because she flushed feminine products down, ignoring all the warnings, and is too helpless to use a plunger (LOL DEGREE IN COMPARATIVE FEMOIDOLOGY AND SHE CAN’T EVEN HANDLE BASIC HOUSEHOLD TASKS).

While Mark was tinkering with the pipes, they got to comparing their income, student loans, and educational attainment levels.

As one does.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Buttercup
Then, cos she can’t find a job and is in so much loan debt, she’ll tell him she can’t afford to pay the bill, and yadda yadda boom goes the dynamite. I mean, this is all MRA wank material anyway, right?

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
3 years ago

Axecalibur:

I like the assumption that Megan knows who Mark even is. There’s no explanation for how they know each other.

I thought “Mark” was a stand-in for less academically educated people generally. “Megan” is the snotty intellectual who goes to college in part for status reasons. She dismisses non-academic people generally, despite possibly even not knowing any.

Although it’s not really clear who is being mocked in this poster.

People who study academically?

People who study “something stupid”?

Women because they study more than men?

Women because they study stupid fields?

Women because they can’t compete in real jobs?

History Nerd
History Nerd
3 years ago

I think some STEM bro MRA’s might be in the “academic danger zone,” which is unfortunately a bit too easy to describe with bullet points:

– You’ve proven to yourself that you’re capable of highly difficult and complex academic tasks, like acing a really difficult programming project or math exam.

– You might mistake your above-average intellectual socialization with other aspects of your personality, like your level of dark triad personality traits and ability to compartmentalize whether you act morally or immorally around different people. Lots of smart people get through life with low levels of dark triad traits and lots of compassion and concern for others.

– Expertise in one area makes you think you’re an expert in every area. The “every academic field is really just a branch of physics” syndrome.

– You might realize that certain subjects are easy for you, so you put in the work to get an A or B but not the work to really learn something substantial.

– You think being smart means other people need to treat you like they exist to serve people like you, not in the To Serve Man cookbook sense. You think your 4.0 GPA in computer science means you deserve an elite tech job regardless of how you behave.

epitome of incomprehensibility

@wwth:

At the risk of being all Americasplainy, I’m going to go ahead and tell him how the women of Canada and Justin Trudeau feel about this proposal – “a world of no”

No argument here 🙂

@Paradoxical – That’s great! Wishing you luck!

BritterSweet
3 years ago

@ Virgin Mary

Calls the Canadian PM a F****t, yet still expects him to do him a favor. Expects him to enslave people and hand them out like belongings despite being a SJW. Calls the actual refugees rapefugees (more than implying he’s against allowing them in), yet still expects Canada to open its borders to incels. Pfft, wow.

History Nerd
History Nerd
3 years ago

The 61% and 49% might be the means of each percentage over a number of years. People can have a bad habit of citing descriptive statistics as though they’re the “true” values. What if, for instance, you had one or two years with significantly more women than men and that’s enough to make the means an unreliable summary of trends?

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
3 years ago

I saw this posted on facebook recently, and it’s quite an eye opener. Computer programming used to be considered a female preserve because it was considered an extension of clerical work and languages. Then, in the early eighties, they concerted the effort into marketing computers to boys and masculinising the products.

https://edtechmagazine.com/higher/article/2014/11/did-computer-science-gender-gap-begin-1984

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
3 years ago

I actually remember most of these ads from when I was a child!! No wonder they drove girls away from computing with this kind of propaganda.

http://www.funstockretro.co.uk/news/20-of-the-most-sexist-gaming-adverts/

Cheese Chocobo
Cheese Chocobo
3 years ago

Ah, MRAs, as inconsistent as they are wrong. It’s almost amusing, in a morbid fashion, to see how they say completely contrary things with all sincerity.

I would call myself a feminist but whenever I do everyone shits all over me sooo
I would call myself a feminist but whenever I do everyone shits all over me sooo
2 years ago

Nice, a flame war. *eats popcorn*
Edit: or maybe not? Welp, I’m still gonna eat my popcorn

David Copefield
David Copefield
1 year ago

Various factors affect the number of women and men in colleges: a period of time, trends, specialty, etc. When I was in college and studied marketing and working with advertisement copy examples, then naturally the number of women we had was small. Also, if you take into account philology or teaching, where they were more. And I think that this situation should not concern MRAs, as there are more important problems.