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The Daily Stormer praises alleged “honor killer” of London teen for “defending his race”

“Honor killing” victim Celine Dookhran (Modified photo from Twitter)

By David Futrelle

Andrew Anglin, publisher of the neo-Nazi tip sheet DailyStormer.com, doesn’t usually have many nice things to say about Muslims, especially Muslims living in the West. But he’s made an exception of two young Londoners, Mujahid Arshid, and Vincent Tappu.

What makes these two fellows “honorable,” in Anglin’s eyes? Arshid has been charged with the brutal rape and murder of 19-year-old Celine Dookhran and the kidnapping, rape and attempted murder of another young woman who survived her assault; Tappu has been charged in the kidnapping of both women. According to prosecutors, the two were enraged that Dookhram, of Indian descent, was planning to marry an Arab man.

And so, while acknowledging that the violence inflicted upon these two women was “gruesome,” Anglin actually praises the alleged killer and his accomplice for their “hardcore defense of [their] race.”

In a recent post on The Daily Stormer (archived here), Anglin declares

the men who did it were defending their race, and as extreme and gross as the act was, you have to have a little bit of respect for them.

Reveling in the bloody details of the crime, Anglin writes admiringly that

These guys kidnapped women of their own race and raped them, and after one escaped with her throat half-slit, they chopped the other up and stuffed her in a freezer.

Because the women were race-mixing.

Anglin goes on to urge white men in the west to emulate the two — at least up to a point.

So I’m just going to throw this out there: imagine if white men cared this much about their own women race-mixing. …

I’m certainly not implying White men should be kidnapping White female race-mixers, raping them and chopping them up and shoving them in freezers for fucking n***ers. Although honestly, I wouldn’t feel bad if that happened, it is more than our women would require to get back in line.

Instead of murdering “race-mixing” white women, Anglin suggests that white men simply harass them viciously in public.

If we had a movement to shame these whores, that would go a long, long way. If you see these people in Walmart, for instance, look the white woman directly in the eyes and say “how does that n***er dick taste, whore?”

You can’t get in trouble for that. Her buck is not going to attack you in a Walmart, and if he does he’ll be arrested and it will get in the media. Which is good. They won’t print your name, because you are the victim, but they will say that you made a “racially insensitive comment about the woman’s mixed race relationship.”

You can also yell from your car. If you see women with someone of another race, slow down, roll down your window and yell: “n***er-fucking whore! What does your father think????”

Just start doing this.

Now. …

If you look a woman in the eye and call her a n***er-fucking whore, she will remember that for the rest of her life.

Do it.

Once again, it seems the main difference between American neo-Nazis and the Islamist fanatics they so often denounce are the colors of their respective skins.

H/T — FSTDT.com

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Dalillama: Irate Social Engineer

@kupo

We don’t need another word for crazy; we need to examine why we’re trying to use that word each and every time we start to do so and to address the actual problem we’re seeing rather than brushing it off as “crazy.”

I think that there’s a need for a concise term for, essentially, someone who is deliberately divorced from reality. I.e., the recent Juicebro thread where David wondered if he’d gone “off the deep end”. Now, I don’t think that Mikey boy has experienced a psychotic break, nor that he’s experiencing any type of mental illness. He’s simply not connected to reality anymore, because he’s surrounded himself for too long with people who are constantly trying to outdo each other with hyperbolic improvised propaganda. It’s the same phenomenon as the people who were convinced Obama was going to take their guns, or that Pizzagate was a real thing, or Alex Jones and his lizard people, etc.

@Axe

Any reason you ask, or just curious?

Etymology is a thing for me, so basically curious.

@Grumpy

I think people tend to attribute racist opinions far too much to personal failures of individuals and not nearly enough to the well-organized propaganda campaign that has been carried on by the US Right Wing for over 40 years

Try 400 years, you’ll be closer to the truth.
@Otrame

The result is that many cities here are spread out, going horizontal instead of vertical

This was not purely a result of automotive availability. It was a deliberate policy decision (well, a series of them, made mostly between 1945 and 1970), aimed, as I noted above, at perpetuating racial segregation and economic inequality in the face of increasing pressure for civil rights laws, many of which have been rendered essentially toothless by such backhanded measures.

Still Fiqah
Still Fiqah
3 years ago

Hey. I’m TRULY sorry if I made anybody feel bad for not being able to drive, for various reasons. FWIW, I BARELY got my driver’s license well after high school, and had a permit when I entered undergrad in the Nineties. I come from a place with an active, visible driving culture (South Florida). Even if you couldn’t have your own car, you were expected to somehow have one – even if you were dirt poor like I was, and worked during the school year and on breaks for shit like text books and food. I’m permanently banned from my elderly mother’s empty-nest bad-ass Mustang, after an unfortunate incident of backing into our mailbox 20 years ago. It…it never stops hurting.

I KNOW this is far from universal. Part of why I moved to New York was because the MTA is a miracle of public transit, and I could be assured that I would never, ever have to parallel park, which isn’t even something TAUGHT in Florida. (We have massive parking lots and valets. I mean…LOL)

What struck me as hilariously absurd is that the vile, putrid, ceaselessly enraged, embittered, entitled, frothing racist pint of fucknuggetry that we call Andrew Anglin is scowling in a photo with his DRIVER’S PERMIT. Like…except for their beaming grins, THIS was the photo my friends all took after their quinceanera parties! How is this…I mean. No motorcycling license? No CDL? No HAZMAT? I…you’re mean-mugging with a junior license with that same air of unprovoked defiance that these people reserve for their avis in front of the stars-and-bars? It’s just…no.

Can a person be a bad-ass with a permit? Hell, yeah, they can! MY friends were. But this dude? Nope.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Dali

Etymology is a thing for me, so basically curious

Totally get that 😀

I think that there’s a need for a concise term for, essentially, someone who is deliberately divorced from reality

I worry that any such word will either come from a place of ableism or will be used, predominantly if not exclusively, in an ableist fashion. I’ve little faith in the decency of the general public. Personally, I’m OK with this lexical gap remaining unfilled under the circumstances…

Conspiratorial/conspiracist might work for what you seem to be describing tho. That’s probably as safe a word as any 🙂

@Fiqah

Hey. I’m TRULY sorry if I made anybody feel bad for not being able to drive

Yeah, I was gonna say something about that but forgot when I got home. That and the repeating ‘tiny’ thing. Height don’t come so easy to all of us. It’s cool. Just resist that urge a little harder next time 🙂

GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina
3 years ago

@Kupo: Cognitive skills may not have been the proper term, because I certainly wasn’t talking about spatial skills. I’ve always thought of it in a computer analogy. Mental illness is a hardware problem, a structural or chemical dysfunction that makes it more difficult for a person to function. You may well be able to treat the issue, but you can’t remove and replace the brain. The issues I’m talking about are poor reasoning and critical thinking skills, which I see as analogous to programming/software issues — you might be able to correct these deficiencies with better education, at least at earlier ages before a person’s beliefs have been ossified. So I do think we need a word for a person with this sort of problem which is clean of all reference to mental illness. At WHTM we seem to be stuck with words like “asshole” and “shitstain” and “shitgibbon”, which don’t really specify this particular problem, and which also have the deficiency of implying that bad thinking is the result of personality flaws (which IS probably part of the story), which probably cannot be remedied, rather than poor training in intellectual skills, which might be remediable. And in particular, a better emphasis on teaching better intellectual skills might pay a lot of dividends, while assuming that the “deplorables” are simply natural assholes that are going to happen no matter what we do seems defeatist to me.

@Axe: I grew up in the 50s and 60s so I know fairly well what things were like then. One of my earliest memories is hearing a news item about an attack on Nat “King” Cole and my father trying to explain to me why people would attack a SINGER. I grew up in a totally white area — in school I had just one African American classmate, for one year only (he was from a local orphans’ home). Racism wasn’t much of an issue for obvious reasons.
When I was 15 my aunt in San Francisco gave me a trip out there, and I spent some time with a boy of my age who was planning to be a priest — he was the protege of an older priest who was close to her late husband’s family in Louisiana — and I don’t want to even THINK about what might have been going on there. (This was a priest who owned a private plane …) This was my first exposure to outright racism, and I was shocked. So, while I know that there isn’t any way that I could have grown up white in the US in that period without some dose of racism, I think I was lucky enough to have gotten a fairly weak dose.
My problem with what you say is that I think it’s virtually impossible not to have acquired some degree of racism as a white person growing up in the US, but IMO that doesn’t mean you are doomed to being a racist person. A lot of effort has been put into encouragement of diversity and diminishing racist ideas. This afternoon I ran some errands, thinking about this thread as I went. I went to pick up vegetables at the local Unitarian Church, and on the door was a poster with a diverse group of people with the caption “We all belong here. We stand by each other.” A tiny thing, obviously, but a baby step in the right direction. I went to the grocery store and a black guy in a mixed race couple with an obviously mixed-race child — which you wouldn’t have seen in my area 20 years ago — held the door for me because I’m obviously mobility-challenged. I saw two other young women with children who were obviously browner than they were. Change is happening. Not fast enough, of course — it never is.

My point is that instead of helping racism to die out, the Republican Party has cultivated and nurtured it. Over the last 50-60 years there has been a lot of study of what you might call marketing psychology, and that has led to the development of a lot of techniques for bypassing people’s rational defenses by manipulating fear and anger. Even a relatively banal thing like peanut butter was promoted with the slogan “Choosy moms choose Jif,” which obviously played on a woman’s fear of being not considered a mom who cared about what her kids ate. The Republican racist campaign depends on fairly sophisticated, well-financed techniques to keep poorly-educated people scared and angry. So it seems to me that dismissing the results of such a campaign as “Well, they were racists anyway,” basically concedes that white people are racist by NATURE and there’s really not much you can do about it.
I don’t blame you the slightest bit for feeling the way you do, but as a white person I’m not prepared to accept that white racism can’t be ameliorated and maybe even cured. Unfortunately for me, part of the cure is that my generation has to pass away.

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
3 years ago

@Nanny Oggs Bosom

Whoops! No, my lovely mother-in-law wasn’t born in the 18th century. I hadn’t had my coffee yet. It was still pretty early in the morning here.

RE: Drivers Licences

My sister-in-law never got her DL. Living in the suburbs of a small New England city, it was just about impossible for her to get a decent job in the city, without that DL. She relied on her brother, my husband, to drive her where she needed to go. To my great resentment. Or, she took the very inadequate bus.

For awhile, she lived with her parents in a town known as “black suburbia”, because of its large number of African-Americans. She had the nerve once, to complain she was the only white person riding the bus!

@Troubelle

Yes, you’ll have to get your DL, good luck when it comes time to take the driving test. Seriously, consider applying for Federal jobs. Sorry, sorry, for beating a dead horse, but you’ll be glad you did. The Feds have strong regs and procedures in place to prevent discrimination. They WANT to hire women and minorities. OK, I’m through talking about it.

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
3 years ago

@Dormousing_It

Perhaps I can get the DL over winter break.

And I’ll keep the Federal idea in mind, assuming the government machine doesn’t break within the next few years. I do have an alternative via my mom’s company (which is not averse to hiring family in the slightest), and I eventually want to strike out on my own, but…well, I just want to have a secure living wage.

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
3 years ago

@Troubelle

Heh. First office job I had, was in the company my mother worked for. It was a summer job. I wasn’t permitted to work in her department, that was all. It was data entry, and tedious as hell – this was long before the internet, even before modern software like Windows was in wide use – but it was something to put on my resume.

epitome of incomprehensibility

@Still Fiqah – not offended! Just curious! And Anglin’s badass posturing is pretty mockable.

@Dan Hoan, @Sinkable John – That sucks. Nobody should treat you as a lesser person for not driving.

@Scildfreja – Oh, I’m also in Canada! Just the other side of it. I live in the city where Roosh V got beer dumped on his head. 🙂 And my dad’s from Maine. I just feel kind of… provincial?… not having been a lot of places, so sorry for my alien-from-Mars sort of questions (“Are motor vehicles a status symbol in your culture? Hm, how interesting.”) 😀

@wwth – Minneapolis-Saint Paul seems a bit like Montreal & environs – trafficky, with a lot of places joined to one metropolitan area. Probably could use more trains. Those things can be expensive, though. I’m paying around $115/mo for a combined train-bus pass and I’m not that far from downtown.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
3 years ago

Going back to the original topic for a moment, I have a question.

According to my extremely limited understanding of such things, ‘honor killings’ are generally done by a woman’s immediate family. However, if these two links are anything to go by, Dookhran’s immediate family do not sound at all happy about what happened to her.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/local-news/celine-dookhran-murder-family-pay-13392019.amp

https://www.google.com/amp/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4750098/amp/Inquest-hears-honour-killing-victim-19-throat-cut.html

Assuming they’re not putting on a show for the press, they seem genuinely upset by the murder. Especially, if as reported in some sources, the killer is one of their relatives (I’m guessing some degree of cousin IF that’s true, but that’s only a guess, not fact).

So who, according to London’s rumor central anyway, is supposed to have ordered the ‘hit’ for this to be considered an honor killing? The parents were reported to have disapproved of Dookhran’s dating an Arab guy, but that wouldn’t necessarily mean they wanted her dead because of it.

Is this killing more likely a case of the parents going “will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest” in front of the wrong people, or more like two guys who wanted to assault and kill some women choosing two whom they thought were ‘safe’ to kill by their community’s standards?

Any thoughts on this, those who know way more about honor killings, Indian Muslims, and London than I (barely) do?

ETA minor typo and grammar fixes.

Lady Mondegreen
Lady Mondegreen
3 years ago

If you look a woman in the eye and call her a n***er-fucking whore, she will remember that for the rest of her life

Sorry, sweetie, but you would be forgotten in a hot minute. You’re not the only random asshole in the world, and most of us really don’t obsess over the things random assholes say to us.

Jesalin
Jesalin
3 years ago

I think that there’s a need for a concise term for, essentially, someone who is deliberately divorced from reality. I.e., the recent Juicebro thread where David wondered if he’d gone “off the deep end”.

For them and those who have the critical-thinking skills of the average banana, I prefer ‘shit-witted or semi-sentient shit sack’.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
3 years ago

If you see these people in Walmart, for instance, look the white woman directly in the eyes and say “how does that n***er dick taste, whore?”

If this Trump-era white-dude-disinhibition fad continues, pretty soon they’ll be masturbating in the streets and flinging feces. These are the creators and keepers of civilization?

Banananana dakry: Fat, Short-Haired, and Deranged
Banananana dakry: Fat, Short-Haired, and Deranged
3 years ago

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants

IOW, they will have the same morals and behaviors of a chimpanzee in a zoo and for less reason. And yet somehow they will try to spin public wanking and shit-flinging as an inherently superior behavior that sustains civilization.

My head and the wall want to make friends now.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

@Jesalin : I am not against calling them name, but it can be good indeed to have a term to distinguish people who have a mental diseases, and people who use their brain wrong.

Jeroen
Jeroen
3 years ago

@Redsilkphoenix

Any thoughts on this, those who know way more about honor killings, Indian Muslims, and London than I (barely) do?

I know next to nothing about honour killings, but I was asking myself why a honour killer would rape them first?

Then I remembered this: http://women.ncr-iran.org/iranian-regime-s-misogynist-laws/1825-female-prisoners-who-are-virgins-must-be-raped-before-execution-to-prevent-them-from-entering-heaven

So, yeah… I don’t even know what to say about that…

YV
YV
3 years ago

If you see these people in Walmart, for instance, look the white woman directly in the eyes and say “how does that n***er dick taste, whore?”

“Definitely not as bitter as yours, asshole.”

You can also yell from your car. If you see women with someone of another race, slow down, roll down your window and yell: “n***er-fucking whore! What does your father think????”

What the hell is up with these people thinking that all dads just despise the idea of their daughter being in an interracial relationship?? Not every man older than 50 is a racist POS.
If I came home with a black boyfriend, worst case scenario would be that my dad would make him listen to all his jazz records.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ redsilkphoenix

So who, according to London’s rumor central anyway, is supposed to have ordered the ‘hit’ for this to be considered an honor killing?

For prosecution, and sentencing, purposes it’s irrelevant who actually initiated or committed the murder; it’s the motivation that counts. Theoretically a totally unconnected third party could commit a murder and it could still be an honour killing, even if all the family and friends were completely happy for the couple.

It’s rather like Nazi’s attitude of calling people ‘race traitors’ even if the actual people involved think the whole concept is daft. If a Nazi committed a murder to ‘uphold the honour of the white race’, then that would fall within the definition; even though he had no prior connection with the victim.

Hope that makes some sense. Here’s the CPS guidance on the issue.

The definition of honour crimes we use is the cross government definition namely that Honour-based violence is a crime or incident which has or may have been committed to protect or defend the honour of the family and/or community.

TheKND
TheKND
3 years ago

It’s such a weird and alien mindset to me. These people claim to love their race and culture, but they are so eager to surrender all decent parts of it and become just as vile as the “inferior” races that they hate.
Oh, and kids, don’t ask random women in Walmarts how “n***er dick tastes like”! You come off as very jealous. There is enough n***er dick for everyone

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
3 years ago

Oh, and kids, don’t ask random women in Walmarts how “n***er dick tastes like”! You come off as very jealous. There is enough n***er dick for everyone

“Free samples are thataway. I think today is chocolate chip cookie day, though.”

Schnookums Von Fancypants, Ghostface Fancypants Killer
Schnookums Von Fancypants, Ghostface Fancypants Killer
3 years ago

Oh, and kids, don’t ask random women in Walmarts how “n***er dick tastes like”! You come off as very jealous. There is enough n***er dick for everyone

Ah, a vital part of America’s favorite pastime. Who can forget cheering for your favorite baseball team while the vendors walked up and down the aisles “Get yer n***er dicks! Red Hot N***er dicks! Two for a dolla!”

Robert Walker-Smith
Robert Walker-Smith
3 years ago

I just remembered a conversation with my younger sister about my first husband. He was Chinese-Panamanian, and I was somewhat uneasy about introducing him to my father; I was just out of college and this was my first really adult relationship. As it turned out, they got along just fine.

She told me, “Don’t you get it? You were Dad’s last hope for a Catholic son-in-law and you came through.”

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

@Fiqah, <3! It's okay my duck!

@Troubelle, and #Driving,

I only got my learners' and drivers' when I was 25. A year later I was navigating dense traffic, and a year after that I was working in another city entirely, with a five hour drive when I wanted to visit home. My income had tripled and my work was much, much more secure.

It feels intimidating – I remember that! But it isn't so bad once you're settled. The only thing I can really suggest is that when they tell you that you should keep a big buffer of space in front of you, they mean it. Driving is not really about pointing the car in the right way. That bit’s easy, honest. The important part is communicating to other people what you’re doing, and making sure they (and you) have the time to respond.

You can do the thing!

@epitome of incomprehensibility, woo, canadafriends! Don’t worry about feeling provincial. You are! You’re from a province after all. Here in Alberta our cities aren’t that big, and they all sprawl – the city limits are very wide and they’re just lines on a map, so suburban creep is a huge issue. Makes our buses and light rail really inefficient (ineffective?), moreso than the east coast cities I’ve visited. Like, there’s a legitimate issue in how long it can take to get around on a bus compared to a car, because the routes have to be so long. Troublesome!

@GrumpyOld SocialJusticeMangina

Mental illness is a hardware problem, a structural or chemical dysfunction that makes it more difficult for a person to function. You may well be able to treat the issue, but you can’t remove and replace the brain. The issues I’m talking about are poor reasoning and critical thinking skills, which I see as analogous to programming/software issues — you might be able to correct these deficiencies with better education, at least at earlier ages before a person’s beliefs have been ossified.

goes cross-eyed

Erm… the metaphor between brain “hardware” and brain “software” is … oh, dear. Well. It’s bad. Shudderingly bad. I don’t fault you for holding to it my duck! Everyone does it. It’s basically a modern interpretation of mind-body duality, and we have an strong impulse to think that way. Daniel Dennett does a great job talking about this in a lot of his writing. It’s by far the most common and most intuitive way to think about how the brain works. So please don’t think I’m picking on you!

It’s just, well. Wrong. Wrongety-wrong. What you’re calling “software” is the “hardware”. Mental illness can and and often is based on bad thinking habits. Those bad thinking habits are indistinguishable from the biological process on which they are based.

How we think now affects how we think later. How our brains operate now influences how our brains operate later. This is two ways to make the same statement.

Now – your actual point! I completely, 100% agree that we need to improve education when it comes critical reasoning skills. We need to do this so very desperately. Mental hygiene should be taught alongside sex ed, health classes, and PE! Should be a requirement! How to be self-critical, how to investigate a subject, how to avoid biases. All directed at self improvement and not directed at critiquing or correcting others. Yes please!

As for a word-that-means-poor-reasoning-skills, I’m sort of with Axe in that it’d be co-opted by ableism. The ableism problem is that we associate mental issues with bad behaviour, and use words to express that. Adding a new word to a slice of that bad-behaviour side of the network would automatically associate it with the other ableist language. It would start the hard work of breaking those associative links, though, if it was properly chosen to associate with people-who-have-mental-issues-are-not-bad words, though. It’d have to be chosen very carefully, and language doesn’t really work that way.

I suggest that instead we focus on calling them awful, instead of broken. Call out their poor reasoning skills directly if you want, but I think that calling them terrible without using ableist language would be more effective and natural at breaking the semantic links between ableist language and bad behaviour. Just my opinion, though!

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
3 years ago

@Scildfreja

I don’t know if high schools still do this today, but when I was in high school in the 1980s, we were required to take a course in media literacy. If today’s schools don’t, they need to.

Maybe if older generations had taken this course, so many of them wouldn’t be hooked on Fox News.

Ellesar
Ellesar
3 years ago

look a woman in the eye and call her a n***er-fucking whore

I know that this is not meant to be funny, but what Anglin has totally missed is that a lot of men shout vile abuse at women from the safety of their cars already. Just walking down the street minding one’s own business can be enough to be subjected to verbal abuse.

Those of us who have experienced this on an industrial scale just learn to block it out – rather like the best way to cope with a crying baby who does not respond to soothing. And if a man did that to my face I would just think that there was something wrong with him – and I’d be right!

Yes, vicious abuse is something we do not forget, but tbh there is such a range of it that being called a n****r loving w***e once by a Nazi is going to fade into obscurity behind all the threats to our body integrity and safety (yes, I am talking rape threats, but lots of other stuff too).

You would think that Anglin MIGHT be able to work this out, as surely he must be aware of how much misogyny is in daily life – seeing as he embraces it himself.

Ellesar
Ellesar
3 years ago

TBH the death of Dookhran was not down to Islamist extremism so much as the attitude of those particular men towards Arabs. Certainly the ownership of women by men that is part of fundamentalist ideology creates the mindset that makes it possible, but ostensibly the shame was around her dating ‘outside her race’ rather than religion, and that is even closer to Nazi thinking.

Jesalin
Jesalin
3 years ago

@Dormousing_it

I don’t know if high schools still do this today, but when I was in high school in the 1980s, we were required to take a course in media literacy. If today’s schools don’t, they need to.

That was part of English class (now called Communications) for me. By the time I finished that unit I was paying close attention to the way various media presents information. The words that are used, the words that aren’t used, the phrasing, etc. It really needs to be taught!

Critical thinking skills need to be added back into the curriculum too!

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Scild

The ableism problem is that we associate mental issues with bad behaviour, and use words to express that. Adding a new word to a slice of that bad-behaviour side of the network would automatically associate it with the other ableist language

Yep! Thanks for wording it all fancy like 🙂

@Grumpy

Racism wasn’t much of an issue for obvious reasons

Imma need you to explain that one. Cos all I see is your community being seeped in and based on racism. Unless you were being sarcastic. In which case, humorous indeed 🙂

This was my first exposure to outright racism, and I was shocked. So, while I know that there isn’t any way that I could have grown up white in the US in that period without some dose of racism, I think I was lucky enough to have gotten a fairly weak dose

This just shows the blinders you had. Again, the fact that you only ever interacted with 1 brown kid in school, cos literally everyone else in your town was white is because of the outright racism you only think you first saw in SF. You got the full dose, fam. That’s what it looks like

it’s virtually impossible not to have acquired some degree of racism as a white person growing up in the US, but IMO that doesn’t mean you are doomed to being a racist person

Remember when I said that I agreed that it’s not individual failures of individual white persons? That it’s a collective failure among white people as a group? Yeah. Read that part again. Cos your #notall is boxing shadows

My point is that instead of helping racism to die out, the Republican Party has cultivated and nurtured it

Problem with this narrative is that the Republicans didn’t encourage racism in a vacuum. They accepted the racists that fled the Democrats after the Rights Acts of the 60s. VRA passes in 65, Nixon takes the south in 68. As I said, the southern strategy and the propaganda machine refocused racism that was already there. Total racism didn’t increase, it just changed animal mascot

The Republican racist campaign depends on fairly sophisticated, well-financed techniques to keep poorly-educated people scared and angry. So it seems to me that dismissing the results of such a campaign as “Well, they were racists anyway,” basically concedes that white people are racist by NATURE and there’s really not much you can do about it

Yes, people are, largely, scared and angry by nature. They don’t need to be kept that way. They just need to know who to be scared of and angry at. Jews used to be despised back in the day, then something something Israel, and, all of a sudden, those same racists are fawning over their ‘Judeo Christian values.’
As far as white people specifically, you’re missing the forest. White folk aren’t genetically predisposed to racism or anything. Black folk, indigenous folk, Latinx folk, Asian folk, etc etc are just as scared and angry as white people. They just have something worth being scared and angry about: fuckin white folk

I don’t blame you the slightest bit for feeling the way you do

Uh huh…

as a white person I’m not prepared to accept that white racism can’t be ameliorated and maybe even cured. Unfortunately for me, part of the cure is that my generation has to pass away

Oh, it can be ameliorated. A more diverse country does that automatically. Both by there being a smaller percentage of white people to fuck everything up for the rest of us and cos people are less bigoted when they know, live around, work with people who’re different than them. I don’t care about fixing individual racists. No time, no spoons, not my job. A better society to live in, on the other hand, comes from a more melted pot. So, yeah, wish you, as a person, a long and healthy life. But y’all as a gen gotta go

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
3 years ago

@Jesalin

I’m happy to hear it’s part of the curriculum. Although, it seems to me, young people today are savvier to media’s various manipulations than older generations tend to be. Could be because of the internet.

Yes, critical thinking needs to be taught to everyone in the US, not just the kids. I’m not exempting myself.

Jesalin
Jesalin
3 years ago

@Dormousing_it

I’m not sure if it is anymore, it was when I went to school though…about 25-30 years ago. I still remember the section on subliminal advertising, I never looked at TV the same way again.

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
3 years ago

@dormousing it

I can drive a car, I know I can, but even at 40 I have had a terrible mental block about it. My father would never let my mum drive, as he said women were terrible drivers, and was always making jokes about it to his mates. He also thought it would help to keep her at home if she couldn’t drive off and leave him, and he wanted to save money, he had control of all the finances and her having her own car was out of the question. I wanted to learn to drive at 17, and he second to sit with me, but he kept swearing and grabbing the steering wheel all the time and made me lose my nerve. He died in 1998, and I still feel too shaky to get behind the wheel. I tried a few driving lessons three years ago, and it was going great until I got assaulted, then I lost my nerve again. I really hoped I’d get back into a position of confidence where I coukd drive, but I still feel like as a biological female I’m incapable of it. 🙁

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

<3 Virgin Mary. Maybe try go-karts or bumper-cars? The principles are the same, and they're designed to be bonked into things. Also, can be fun!

mrex
mrex
3 years ago

@Schild

“Even our cities are planned out to favour driving so heavily that they can be hard to get around in if you walk. Major roadways often don’t have sidewalks,”

Sidewalks? Oh, you mean those things that are used by cities to shove mountains of snow onto during the winter? ;p

“Designed to suit cars and trucks instead of growing overtop of older pre-automobile systems, strictly enforced traffic laws, and a population that has the basics of traffic law and safety drilled into them as part of their childhood education.”

I get that you’re comparing the US to India, but I still wonder where the hell you’re referencing in the US? Certainly not many cities in the Eastern seaboard. Or at least not the ones that haven’t been burned down and rebuilt.

@Axe, GOM

“No. If you’re convinced by propaganda to hate people cos they’re a different color than you, you’re a racist.”

They’re certainly racists, but I think “brainwashing” is a better word to use than “propaganda”. Especially since the target audience includes small children.

It’s a long, long road to combat internalized racism, and it is 100% on white folks that more of us don’t do the work.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@mrex

I think “brainwashing” is a better word to use than “propaganda”. Especially since the target audience includes small children

Propaganda is a tool, brainwashing is a process…
Also, I don’t like the term brainwash for small children. Brainwash implies they’re being reprogrammed. That they thought one way, but that view was washed from their baby brains . Except no. It’s not brainwashing, it’s regular, basic teaching. It’s the banal lessons and cultural learning inherent in growing up white in a white supremacist society. That’s what white people need to understand. It’s just how the machine works. Same with my sexism. I wasn’t brainwashed to have misogynist thoughts and beliefs. I literally couldn’t help picking those things up simply by being male surrounded by patriarchy

It’s a long, long road to combat internalized racism, and it is 100% on white folks that more of us don’t do the work

When you use the word “internalized” before racism, you’re referring to brown people’s racism. Thus, you’re saying that it’s white people’s job to deal with the racism exhibited by PoC, not their own. I’ll assume you meant that white people need to police themselves and each other. Which I obvs agree with. Just watch your wording, eh?

Lumen8
Lumen8
3 years ago

I got to this part:

So I’m just going to throw this out there: imagine if white men cared thi–

Jaw dropped, brows furrowed, low, long gasp of horror.
This blog makes me do that. A lot.

Then it got worse.

Why does fear drive these people directly into thoughts of horrible violence? The fear must be terribly, terribly great. I’m just perplexed as to how it gets so strong, in a world where most of them probably have no reason to be so afraid in the first place. Is it the anonymity? The silence? Boredom?

I want to say it’s the availability of dark internet dens where they can bounce their hateful ideas and fantasies off one another, like everything else in the Manosphere and the dark, racist corners of the internet, but that just leads me back to the realization that there’s nothing to be done about that, other than trying to coax a few out into the light again.

And… well. Fat chance of that ever happening.
What a depressing thought.

(((VioletBeauregarde))): Crooked Nasty Social Justice Necromancer
(((VioletBeauregarde))): Crooked Nasty Social Justice Necromancer
3 years ago

It never ceases to amaze and disgust me how anyone can hail a fucking murderer as a HERO! Also, I just *love* how Anglin refers to white women as “our women”. I belong to nobody but ME, fuckface!