Categories
#gamergate 8chan a new woman to hate antifeminism doubling down douchebaggery empathy deficit entitled babies evil SJWs harassment men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny YouTube

Thunderf00t rebuts charges he commands a hate mob by unleashing a hate mob on a woman who made this charge

Thunderf00t: Pleased with himself
Thunderf00t: Quite pleased with himself

Phil Mason, better known online as Thunderf00t, is a scientific researcher and YouTube bloviater who’s turned his hate-crush on video game critic Anita Sarkeesian into a surprisingly lucrative part-time job; his seemingly unending stream of YouTube videos attacking Sarkeesian, many of which have drawn hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube, have without a doubt contributed mightily to the harassment directed against her by the online mob known as #Gamergate.

Now Mason is trying to defend himself against charges that he has become the de facto leader of a vast hate mob that harasses Sarkeesian and other women … by encouraging his followers to harass a woman who charged him with exactly this.

And a good number of Mason’s 400,000 YouTube followers have taken him up on this challenge, flooding the Yelp page of the business the woman runs with her husband with fraudulent one-star reviews and besieging her and her family business with angry and harassing phone calls (at least one of which the perpetrator has put online).

The story of this particular debacle began this past January when the YouTuber who calls herself Laughing Witch sent a letter to Mason’s employer, accusing the YouTuber of harassing Sarkeesian and other women and repeatedly suggesting that he and his followers were a bunch of Nazis. Her email was part of a letter-writing campaign by a number of feminist Youtubers who hoped their letters would get Mason fired from his research job.

Mason, who apparently faced no repercussions from the letter-writing campaign, decided last week to retaliate against Laughing Witch — real name Jennifer Keller. He posted a video about Keller’s letter, following up with a second video posting her name as well as screenshots from the web page of Porcelain Tub Restoration, the company she runs with her husband.

While Tunderf00t didn’t explicitly command his army to harass Keller and her husband, he suggested to his supporters that they post their thoughts about her on the business’s Yelp page — and they did, cratering the company’s rating with literally hundreds of fake one-star reviews.

Yelp has been removing the most obviously fake ones, as well as those referencing her letter about Thunderf00t, but many remain up as “not recommended” (in other words, questionable) reviews, including a number of clearly trollish ones accusing Keller of being a Nazi.

1.0 star rating 10/22/2015 When they came to remodel, i noticed their dismay i had a menorah, i ignored it and told them where my bathroom was. At first i thought it was my paranoia, but then...they starting putting the tiles in such a manner that swastikas were drawn in between the tiles. Then they dropped a very expensive soap and it broke, when i reacted, a short haired woman said: 'What? Is that you granma?' When they finished the work in the bathroom i was less than pleased, i wanted them to leave my house. They proceded to where my menorah was (I should mention i'm not jewish, it seemed practical for a quake or something) and the short haired elderly woman broke it and groped me, saying 'I haven't eaten kosher for a while'. At this point i told them to leave, and the woman exposed herself to me while yelling verses of mein kampf, saying Hitler had a point, but he should have killed all men as well, she refered to Hitler as the feminist who never was, a lonely tear drop running down her face. They left, well, she defecated on my garden and then they left. It would have been fine but the tiles were a bit bent, so 1 star.
Click for larger version.

These negative reviews, as ludicrous as many of them are, have apparently hit the business hard. Keller and her husband have set up a FundAnything page in an attempt, they say, to make payroll in the wake of the attacks on their and their company’s reputation online. On the FundAnything page Keller’s husband, Paul Burns, writes:

We are getting slanderous lies about our services and people posting deplorable images on review sites, as well desecrating our star ratings and customers calling. No one clicks to a service company with 1 star rating. 

According to Burns, the 26-year-old “family based service business with 14 employees” may be forced to close “because of a brutal mob attack on our social review sites.”

Mason’s response to this campaign being waged in his name? Another video, in which he declares that “Karma [is] ONLY A BITCH, if you are one!”

Except that this isn’t “karma,” a supernatural force that Mason, a self-avowed “skeptic,’ presumably doesn’t believe in anyway.

This is an organized harassment campaign, instigated and encouraged by Mason himself.

While I’ve enjoyed Laughing Witch’s videos in the past, I think the letter writing campaign was wrong. Writing employers is a low blow. And despite Mason’s many flaws as a thinker and a human being, he’s no Nazi.

But the wave of harassment he’s brought down on Keller — and which he has not made even the slightest attempt to rein in  — is indefensible.

And it’s getting worse by the day: 8chan’s Baphomet forum, a haven for malicious doxers and harassers, has now jumped aboard this harassment train, targeting not only Keller but her supporters as well. They’ve doxed one other YouTuber already, and are working on doxing others.

In a Baphomet thread, one anon happily reports that the attacks on Keller are causing her great distress:

Anonymous 10/21/15 (Wed) 20:11:27 No.98799>>99454 File (hide): 1445476287252.png (84.73 KB, 623x808, 623:808, 1.png) HOLY SHIT ATTENTION ATTENTION FELLOW BAPHIES!!! POSSIBLE SUICIDE MIGHT HAPPEN REPEAT SUICIDE MIGHT RESULT! Pic related but read this twitter thread for more context https://twitter.com/kflogan/status/656987823195693056 Apparently being triggered to near deadly levels, Kevin the cuck is apparently begging for Thundiecuck to delete his videos exposing laughing bitch. Thundercuck has finally been promoted to ThunderpossiblynotmuchofabitchthanIthought after saying he won't do it unless she does it first. She's having a nervous breakdown and her company may actually go down!

While Mason at first suggested that he would call off the attack if Keller apologized to him, he has since refused to accept her apology, and seems positively gleeful about the pain he’s caused her and her allies.

The internet has officially hit another new low.

I’ll post more on this as it develops.

NOTE: Thanks to Daily Kos blogger idlediletante (Margaret Pless), who provided me with a number of tips on this story. She’s written three posts on the subject so far:

Family Business Brigaded on Yelp by MRA YouTube Stars

Phil Mason is Working With Baphomet to Ruin DC Business

How it Feels to Be Targeted By An Internet Hate Mob: One Man’s Story

 

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

371 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

dhag85 | October 27, 2015 at 7:04 pm
Why would it be wrong to inform Patreon about a user breaking their rules?

Because when TF does something “wrong”, it’s not really “wrong”, just “karma” according to those who slobber all over his shoes and throw their money at him.

So, he didn’t really do anything “wrong”, he’s just delivering justice to those who deserve it! [/OBVIOUS SARCASM]

Felipe is just bullshitting. They know as well as we do that TF’s in the wrong.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Iris Scanner | October 27, 2015 at 7:06 pm
Paradoxical Intention,

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Thunderf00t/Phil Mason did not dox Laughing Witch. Laughing Witch enthusiastically displayed her own real name in the video where she gloated about costing Mason his job (for disagreeing with her on the internet). She specifically bragged about using her own real name in the letter she sent that falsely accused Mason of criminal behavior and being a “Nazi.” She doxed herself and made a big show of doing it.

Again, I’m descended from Missourians. Show me.

If you have proof that this occurred, show me. If you don’t, it’s all just conjecture on this point. I know you lap up all the shit that TF puts out, but c’mon. Use your brain.

Even if you’re right (and I sincerely doubt it), and LW did use her real name in the video where she “gloats” that she got TF fired, he still posted the Yelp page for her business and is trying to make it go under.

Still doxxing, still in the wrong.

The current Patreon brigading attack on Mason will most likely fail, but that’s only because Patreon will actually care if the charges against Mason are true.

I’m pretty sure people can just link the video. Or his many, many tweets on the subject. Or how he admitted to it and says she deserves it because she didn’t apologize to his liking.

Oh, and you still haven’t told me how David “hinted” that we should report TF’s Patreon. Still waiting on that, but I won’t hold my breath.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

Hypothetical question; lets say that the ‘harassment’ campaign works and thunderfoots patreon account is suspended . Other then him no longer getting payed by his fans to make youtube videos what would be the long term effect on him?

Iris Scanner
Iris Scanner
5 years ago

As far as David Futrelle seeding mob action in his OP, I see what David did as equivalent to what Mason did when he showed the Yelp page for LW’s business in his video responding to LW’s attempt to get him fired from his job. Mason didn’t actually call for any action. (Disagree? Show me.)

Mason just casually mentioned that LW’s business has a Yelp page. Just like David casually mentioned that Thunderf00t has a Patreon. And the results were the same — their respective mobs took action.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

The world would be better off without all of them, and I don’t actually care if any gamergaters with depression take that the wrong way. That’s how fucking livid I am.

Come on. We’ve asked you to knock it off with this kind of talk before. Hinting that people should commit suicide is not okay.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

I see what David did as equivalent to what Mason did when he showed the Yelp page for LW’s business in his video responding to LW’s attempt to get him fired from his job. Mason didn’t actually call for any action. (Disagree? Show me.)

We can scroll up and read David’s post, you know. Nowhere did David dox him, publish his private info or in any way hint that we should do anything.

Apparently you have enough awareness to understand that doxxing and harassing is wrong. So why are you defending Thunderfoot still? Your attempts to deflect by acting like David has done something equivalent are weak and nobody is buying it.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Iris Scanner | October 27, 2015 at 7:18 pm
As far as David Futrelle seeding mob action in his OP, I see what David did as equivalent to what Mason did when he showed the Yelp page for LW’s business in his video responding to LW’s attempt to get him fired from his job. Mason didn’t actually call for any action. (Disagree? Show me.)

Except that one, David doesn’t nearly have as many followers as TF, and two, we’re not all ravenous anti-TFers who would do anything to see him destroyed. We don’t like him, but we don’t want his life ruined for it.

We’re not the same as his fanbase, who are notable anti-feminists who can, and have, done anything and everything to silence their critics. We’re not a hate mob, and we’ve never doxxed anyone. We don’t “brigade” Yelp pages to ruin someone’s business. The two groups are not comparable.

Quite frankly, if we “silenced” every critic against feminism, David wouldn’t have a blog anymore.

Mason just casually mentioned that LW’s business has a Yelp page. Just like David casually mentioned that Thunderf00t has a Patreon. And the results were the same — their respective mobs took action.

So why mention her business at all? Why bring it up? Why mention it, even in passing?

David mentioned TF’s Patreon because it’s relevant to the discussion. He has Patreon supporters that support his YT videos, which he used the money from to make a video doxxing LW. This is breaking Patreon’s rules. He’s making content that harasses and incites harassment against LW.

LW’s tub refinishing business had nothing to do with TF’s beef with her. At all. It’s irrelevant.

TF’s Patreon account directly funded the video where he doxxed Laughing Witch. That’s relevant to the conversation. TF’s using his Patreon funding to doxx people. LW just so happens to have an unrelated business.

False Equivalence is False, Felipe.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Still waiting on the proof that LW somehow doxxed herself too, but again, not holding my breath.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

Mason just casually mentioned that LW’s business has a Yelp page. Just like David casually mentioned that Thunderf00t has a Patreon. And the results were the same — their respective mobs took action.

No, thunderfoot said that his followers should leave their thoughts about her on her yelp page. David didn’t say anything about use doing anything about his patreon page.

Bryce
Bryce
5 years ago

@Iris Scanner

Dear oh dear…. Patreon isn’t Mason’s primary source of income, whereas LW’s business is hers. There’s no equivalence.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

Also, the business belongs to Laughing Witch’s husband too. Even if she deserved this – she doesn’t, but just for the sake of argument – what did her husband do to deserve it. Neither David or any of the commenters have suggested anybody take any kind of action that would harm any of Thunderfoot’s family members.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

Wait… where did David say anything about, or link to, TF00t’s patreon?

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

@Kirby: Nowhere, actually. I thought that David mentioned it in passing, but Ctrl+F’ing the page reveals no mentions of the word “Patreon” in the article.

My bad on that one.

But, it does make Felipe’s argument even less coherent. I didn’t think it was possible.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
5 years ago

@PI:

Yeah, I thought so. It was possible I was just missing something…

Kinda shoots Iris Scanner’s post in the foot as well.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

At the start of the article there is a link to a story at the dailykos about anti-feminists who make money on their hate. Thunderfoot was one of the hate mongers featured and its there you will find the link to his patreon page. In other word you need to click on a link here that says nothing about a patreon page then click on another link that will take you to the patreon page.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

@Fabe: So that means that the Daily Kos linked to it, not David, so if anyone’s “hinting” that people should go “brigade” and “harass” TF, it’s them, and not us.

Iris Scanner
Iris Scanner
5 years ago

Paradoxical Intention,

Even if you’re right (and I sincerely doubt it), and LW did use her real name in the video where she “gloats” that she got TF fired…

Oh, Jesus. I’ve just realized you are bloviating on this issue without even having seen the Thunderf00t video that you are expressing such confident opinions about.

It is not even in dispute that LW doxed herself. She has taken all of her videos down, but Mason includes the relevant parts in this video, the one you haven’t seen but are expressing opinions about.

In that video, you can see her pointing to her own real name on a computer screen, showing off the letter she sent to Mason’s employer. (That letter falsely accused Mason of engaging in criminal behavior and being a “Nazi.”)

Since you are obviously still catching up, here is the basic story to date:

1. Thunderf00t/Phil Mason attacked feminism on the internet.

2. So Laughing Witch and others attacked Mason’s income.

3. So Mason attacked LW’s income.

4. So now Mob Mammoth is attacking Mason’s income from another angle.

Please note the point at which the dispute left the realm of ideas and became about trying to get someone fired from their real job in the real world.

Bryce,

Dear oh dear…. Patreon isn’t Mason’s primary source of income, whereas LW’s business is hers. There’s no equivalence.

Well, I guess not — if you leave out the part about LW trying to get Mason fired from his job, his primary source of income.

But that’s probably an important part, considering that the campaign to get Mason fired was the act of aggression that set this whole thing off.

Mason did not go after LW until she tried to take his job away from him. Before LW’s actions, the disputes they had were entirely in the category of disagreeing about ideology on the internet.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

@paradoxical

Yeah pretty much but try telling that to Iris.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

Yes laughing witch did go after his job first,something David said was wrong and I think I have to agree . It failed and she apologized but that wasn’t good enough for thunderfoot who decided to do the same thing and then act like he didn’t do anything at all.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Good lord, it’s like Felipe isn’t even trying to listen anymore. They’re just constantly going on repeat, and then completely ignoring it when they’re called out and wrong.

1. Thunderf00t/Phil Mason attacked feminism on the internet.

2. So Laughing Witch and others attacked Mason’s income.

3. So Mason attacked LW’s income.

4. So now Mob Mammoth is attacking Mason’s income from another angle.

Please note the point at which the dispute left the realm of ideas and became about trying to get someone fired from their real job in the real world.

– There were people who agreed that LW shouldn’t have gone after TF’s real job, myself included.
– That still makes TF a piece of garbage for showing LW’s Yelp page to his ravenous followers
– She only posted her name, he dug up the information about her business and willingly put it on his video even though it has nothing to do with their argument
– And he’s still not only doing illegal shit, but he’s also breaking Patreon’s rules, and using his Patreon money to make videos doxxing people

This isn’t a “Well, she did it first, so it’s okay!” kind of argument.

TF isn’t absolved of all guilt because she did it first. He’s still in the wrong, he’s still a piece of shit, and he is still breaking Patreon’s rules, and thus is still worthy of reporting to Patreon.

Not only that, but I still stand behind what I said earlier: LW’s business is completely irrelevant to the tiff they had, while TF’s Patreon is directly funding the video he made.

And I will also reiterate what other people said: This doesn’t hurt just LW, but also her family and employees. He’s using his fandom as a bludgeon against all of them, and that’s doubly shitty.

This also isn’t a “Well, you’re wrong for doing this, but it’s okay for TF to do it because reasons!” argument.

Sit the fuck down, Felipe. You’re still wrong, and will continue to be wrong.

ColeYote
ColeYote
5 years ago

Can you guys stop engaging Iris? You’re just encouraging him.

biff
biff
5 years ago

@Iris Scanner, LW did strike first, there’s no dispute. Trying to get TF fired was wrong, no doubt about it. TF’s response, however, was way out of proportion to the wrongs made against him. If someone insults you, even to your boss, are you then justified in completely ruining that person’s life and the peripheral lives of their supporters by organizing a hate mob to destroy them all? Such an utterly vindictive response is not what I’d expect from an adult man, but rather from a petulant (and sadistic) child wielding far too much power for his maturity to handle.

Iris Scanner
Iris Scanner
5 years ago

So if someone decided that you didn’t deserve to have a job because you disagreed with them on the internet, and they wrote a letter falsely informing your employer that you are a criminal and a Nazi, and they did this as part of a gang effort, you would just take it? You wouldn’t hit back?

You wouldn’t try to send a message to warn away any future harassment of a similar kind?

Again, these people tried to get Mason fired by sending vicious lies about him to his employer. It’s not clear to me that he had one obvious course of action that he should have taken in response to that aggression. If you think there is a better way to respond to people who send vicious lies to your employer to try to take away the job you love and the income you need, what would that be?

Lithp
Lithp
5 years ago

[quote]No, thunderfoot said that his followers should leave their thoughts about her on her yelp page. David didn’t say anything about use doing anything about his patreon page.”[/quote]

Seeing as his fans don’t USE her business, & thus have no relevant thoughts on it, there’s literally no way to interpret this but “post spam & flames to punish her for what she did to ME.”

The only reason I haven’t reported him to Patreon yet is because I couldn’t find where in the video he said this.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

@lithp

Exactly! Thunderfoot did this whole ‘nudge,nudge,wink,wink’ thing while David did nothing of the sort . yet Iris keeps insisting that David did encourage use to harass him by reporting his patreon page by link to a article on another web site.

Fabe
Fabe
5 years ago

@Iris

so you think the only proper way Thunderfoot had to respond to what Laughing Witch did to him was to do the exact same thing to her even though we agree that it was wrong for her to do it in the first place?

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Iris Scanner | October 27, 2015 at 8:52 pm
So if someone decided that you didn’t deserve to have a job because you disagreed with them on the internet, and they wrote a letter falsely informing your employer that you are a criminal and a Nazi, and they did this as part of a gang effort, you would just take it? You wouldn’t hit back?

You wouldn’t try to send a message to warn away any future harassment of a similar kind?

Again, these people tried to get Mason fired by sending vicious lies about him to his employer. It’s not clear to me that he had one obvious course of action that he should have taken in response to that aggression. If you think there is a better way to respond to people who send vicious lies to your employer to try to take away the job you love and the income you need, what would that be?

Putting aside the fact that TF didn’t even get fired, so there wasn’t any damage done to his income or his job…again, some of us agreed that what LW did was wrong. Do you not read, or are you too busy knee-jerking all over the place in a very sorry attempt to justify doxxing and harassment?

Yes, it would be awful for someone to try and get me fired over shit I never said and shit I never did. Yes, it would be awful for someone to lie to hurt my reputation and my income.

No, I wouldn’t try to ruin their fucking lives over it, nor would I try to destroy their business and the livelihoods of everyone working for them. I would NOT go and dig up personal information about them and use my followers to harass them and attempt to not only ruin their lives, but the lives of their employees and significant other. I would NOT mock them while they were suffering a mental breakdown. I would NOT entice my followers to drive this person to a mental breakdown. I would NOT attempt to make an example out of them like TF is doing now.

I would report it to my employer and to the police and run as much damage control as I could, and not pull this petty, destructive, “an eye for an eye” bullshit, which, may I remind you, is illegal. He incited his fanbase to harass LW and her business. That’s harassment. That’s illegal.

What LW did was wrong, and she apologized for it and shut down her channel. What TF did is inexcusable, and he’s continuing to do it, solely because he can.

What TF is doing isn’t “karma”, it’s petty fucking revenge, plain and simple. He’s getting a kick out of ruining the lives of LW and of everyone around LW, and that’s bullshit. He’s running a goddamned hate mob that is going to possibly drive LW and her husband out of business, and might even drive her to suicide if her mental breakdown gets worse.

On top of that, he’s also funding this little vendetta against LW via Patreon, and, again, that’s breaking Patreon’s rules.

But, it’s all okay, because she attempted to do it first, right? It’s all okay if she loses her livelihood, and her employees lose their livelihoods, and hell, it’d be a-okay if she killed herself, right? Because she did it first, and that makes it okay.

Fuck off, Felipe. You’re a piece of garbage too.

Nunya (@ottodidenari)
5 years ago

Lithp

It’s the one where the title is ANITA SARKEESIAN FAN TRIES TO GET ME FIRED and
has a pic of Anita in the thumbnail.

And yes, to all… there is nothing wrong with reporting these violations of the TOS, they are not light violations either. It’s why they wrote the TOS. They don’t want people making money of doxing or encouraging fraud or harassment. And it’s malicious doxing as well, which is the langauge of the TOS.

I included that video, and the Karma is a Bitch video, and news articles
in the evidence box.

He made seven thousand dollars making those videos.

——————————————————-
Also we can just disagree that writing letters to get someone in trouble with various authorities is not ok, but it’s free speech, and she believed what she wrote. What is happening now is not free speech but what is worse, it’s perpetual harassment with no end.

So people acting like this is all equal or a zero sum game are assholes.
Phil gloated that no harm came to him.

He also called the FBI on a Muslim man back a couple of years ago. They had a video exchange on you tube. It is laughable to attempt to say there was a “death threat from a Muslim extremist”. Nobody buys that. Phil shit his pants and he also tried to ruin that man’s life. So all this fainting and being vexed is phony crapola. If these people believed what they said, then

then they believe that Phil deserves what he got. But they don’t. And the chan boards that were incited, do they really just want “reciprocity”? No. People are having orgasms over harassing someone and making up reasons why they deserve more abuse, and that’s about what’s going on.

And who cares if LW tweeted David? So what? How dare she want an article on this? How would that invalidate her apology? It doesn’t. She’s VERY sorry she did this, trust.

Frostbite883
Frostbite883
5 years ago

Frank Spencer: Was Laughing Witch within her rights to contact Thunderf00t’s university? Of course. All universities have policies on the use of social media by their staff (although I can’t find the one at Thundy’s place, probably because it’s in Czech), and they usually stipulate that staff must ensure that there is clear separation between personal opinion and professional association. Phil has not only shot videos from his lab he’s also made explicit reference to his scientific authority (granted ultimately by his institution) and even given acknowledgment to his Youtube viewers and Patreon supporters in a published paper, ultimately funded by his institution.

Exactly. LW, Bewildered Ape and jenny were right into being a part of the letter writing campaign. Oh, and mockingbird, delphi_ote, milkshake fan, freemage, Iris Scanner, The Golux and everybody else, please take time to watch these BA videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0F9LLSohaI – Open Letter to Institute of Organic Chemistry and Biochemistry, CZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYQNkN66YuA – Thunderf00t Is A Liar: I Lie To Deflect Criticism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNnmBBd3bQM – Explaining The Open Letter: What Is Respect?

Frostbite883
Frostbite883
5 years ago

*well within their right

Lithp
Lithp
5 years ago

[quote]Exactly! Thunderfoot did this whole ‘nudge,nudge,wink,wink’ thing while David did nothing of the sort . yet Iris keeps insisting that David did encourage use to harass him by reporting his patreon page by link to a article on another web site.[/quote]

It’s such a weird claim…he linked to an article which in turn mentioned it to show that Thunderf00t was well paid to say these things.

And it’s not even hard to find someone’s Patreon account, the whole point is that they’re public. Otherwise, people wouldn’t be able to become your patrons, & you wouldn’t get paid.

[quote]It’s the one where the title is ANITA SARKEESIAN FAN TRIES TO GET ME FIRED and
has a pic of Anita in the thumbnail.[/quote]

Oh, I see, it’s in the description. Well, that’s all that I need, then. Also:

[quote]So it turns out theres nothing actually wrong with someone writing to someone elses employer.[/quote]

Is this an attempt at sarcasm, or is he admitting that the letter wasn’t illegal, but still refusing to admit he’s being petty & hypocritical anyway?

Mewens
Mewens
5 years ago

What a shitshow. Paradoxical basically sums up all my thoughts, but I’ll add this:

Why is it so damned predictable that, if you write something that’s within spitting distance of critical of Tf00t, aggrieved man-children trip all over themselves to be the first to scribble “NO U” in feces everywhere?

Sure, you get the occasional monocled gentleman who can string enough words together to make a sentence, but most of ’em … “rabid” comes to mind.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

So, someone by the name of “Sad Monkey” just did a drive-by on my YouTube channel, and I invited them to come here and say their piece instead of spamming the comments section of my last video.

If you can say your shit there, you can say your shit here.

Tessa
5 years ago

What was in the letter exactly? Like did she actually call him a nazi? Or state he shares viewpoints with nazis or something like that?

I personally see nothing wrong with a letter writing campaign and find boiling down everything to “going after his job” or affecting “him in the real world” or stuff like that. Things said on the internet is just as real as off the internet. Those guys are the ones who like to pretend that the things they say online aren’t real. As if it’s some make believe place and they’re not hurting people they harass. Anonymity doesn’t make you less responsible for your words.

Back to the point, methodology is important. Let’s compare:

1) A letter or letters to the university regarding their opinion about his behavior, one that the university officials can read and decide for themselves.
2) Harassment of the family and reviews of a service they never used on Yelp, Even Yelp recognizes they are lies.

Her videos have nothing to do with that business, but Universities often have policies about this kind of thing.

Viscaria
Viscaria
5 years ago

This comment is way late but ah damn that link of Iris’ in their first comment really did link to the 9th comment on this entry, which I would have realized if my phone hadn’t been so slow and awful, so now I’m embarrassed. Anyway.

@ColeYote was there something else you wanted to discuss other than Iris’ comments? Because it’s totally cool to talk about your thing and just skim right by the trolly comments. I don’t know about everyone else, but I do that all the time when I’m not in the mood for bullshit. That way leaves space also for the people who ARE in the mood for hashing out the bullshit to do their thing but also for you to do your thing as well.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Oh, and I did see your bit about how “That video wasn’t Patreon funded!” bit Sad Monkey, and I’d like to raise a point:

Whether that video was funded directly by Patreon is moot. The point is, he’s using Patreon to make YouTube videos, and that was a YouTube video. He’s still making money per video. Rationalize that however you want, but the fact of the matter is he’s still getting paid for it.

Tessa
5 years ago

“find boiling down everything to “going after his job” or affecting “him in the real world” or stuff like that”
That should be: ” find boiling down everything to “going after his job” or affecting “him in the real world” or stuff like that to be to vague and only serve to destroy details that are important.”

Sorry.

delphi_ote
delphi_ote
5 years ago

“TF isn’t absolved of all guilt because she did it first.”

Exactly. I shouldn’t have to repeat that this is a logical fallacy called “tu quoque”, but I just did. We named this kind of wrong thinking a long time ago, because it’s obviously wrong. Arguing that something is ethical/unethical based on what someone else did is something a 5 year old does, not a grown adult. “But mommy, he did it first!” If this argument worked, stealing and murder would be ethical by the same flawed reasoning. It’s lazy, dangerous thinking. KNOCK IT OFF!

Orion
5 years ago

If we’re considering it a sin now to call attention to and criticize someone’s crowdfunding pages, someone should have a word with Phil Mason about that. I believe he has shared some thoughts in the past about a certain Kickstarter run by Sarkeesian.

Seriously, it doesn’t matter who “started it,” but if reporting perceived abuse of crowdfunding sites counts as “starting it,” than Futrelle didn’t start anything; Thunderf00t and his buddies did.

TraciM
5 years ago

Good news is that Yelp took down many of the stupid reviews however they are getting around Yelp’s work by posting photos of the twitter arguments. I reported the photos so hopefully that will get Yelp on the ball.

delphi_ote
delphi_ote
5 years ago

“I personally see nothing wrong with a letter writing campaign and find boiling down everything to “going after his job” or affecting “him in the real world” or stuff like that.”

The man should be allowed to have a personal life and be able to express his personal opinions without feeling like every moment of his life is going to be used against him by his employer. People constantly say and think things that they’re boss won’t agree with. That’s their right when they’re not working.

I’m not interested in living in a world where everyone’s employer owns every minute of their life and polices their every thought. Threatening a person with that fear over a disagreement is wrong. For all your talk of people treating the Internet as different than the real world, you seem to forget that nobody would run to tell someone’s employer about something they said at a bar or an open mike night or at an AA meeting. Why is this okay when it’s on the Internet?

Pannic
Pannic
5 years ago

Well, generally people at open mic nights and AA meetings aren’t commanding lucrative hate mobs.

Tessa
5 years ago

@Delphi_ote: There’s a big difference between a personal life and a public persona in which he uses the job credentials to give himself credibility.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

@Delphi_ote: I have to agree with Tessa on this one. This isn’t like him going to a bar and saying racial slurs, this is him going on the internet, representing the university by claiming they’re the ones giving him credentials, and then spouting bigotry.

Then he’s representing them, and that can reflect poorly on them. If he didn’t say that he’s from that specific university then there shouldn’t be an issue. But he waves that stuff around, and it’s part of his public persona.

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

As was discussed earlier, he’s posted his videos from his place of employment. He’s brought his work life into his whole You Tube celebrity persona. He’s actually lucky he hasn’t gotten in trouble because his employer as every right to fire him for that.

Lithp
Lithp
5 years ago

I think, at least in this specific case, it’s fair to let the employer know. That doesn’t mean I think all such letter campaigns would be valid or the employer should always act on the claim. Though at least stating that they don’t endorse Thunderf00t’s nonsense couldn’t hurt. Because he kind of does claim that he’s arguing from a position of expertise & academic discourse, which is clearly not true.

Though, as someone I talk to on Skype brought up…does Thunderf00t have female colleagues? If so, how do they feel about his propensity to set his fans on people, mostly women, who criticize him or just talk about their opinions in general?

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

So, the Sad Monkey thing is over. They were civil at first, and then when I told them that I wasn’t going to watch a TF video to prove their point because obviously TF is biased as fuck and I simply am not going to give him views (though I thanked them for taking the time to provide links to attempt to prove their point), they went into a “This is why I didn’t want to debate you, you don’t know anything and you won’t listen to anyone else, and you said you didn’t have time to watch his videos (no I didn’t, I said I didn’t fucking want to and stated why), but you typed out a really long response to me (it wasn’t that long and I’m a fast typist)! *implication that I think his university endorses his views because they didn’t fire him*, yadda, yadda, yadda”.

Oh, and they didn’t want to post here because David wasn’t approving their comments fast enough apparently. Go figure.

Anyways, I’ve deleted their comments off of my channel, so it’s not cluttering up my videos with unrelated spam.

weirwoodtreehugger | October 28, 2015 at 12:21 am
As was discussed earlier, he’s posted his videos from his place of employment. He’s brought his work life into his whole You Tube celebrity persona. He’s actually lucky he hasn’t gotten in trouble because his employer as every right to fire him for that.

Agreed. If he’s bringing his place of employment into this, they have every right to know what kinds of things he’s saying while he’s using their name and their resources to make his videos.

If he said it in a bar, or in the privacy of his own home without any ties to the university, I can see saying “yeah, that’s not cool, that’s doxxing”.

Bryce
Bryce
5 years ago

Say for the sake of argument Mason wasn’t involved in doxing or using credentials inappropriately, would it still be right to contact his employer based solely on his opinions? Because if it’s really about his views on feminism and Islam then a campaign to have him fired is an attempt to punish him for those views. It’s then disingenuous to try and justify it some other way or claim to care about an institution’s reputation. (If he has incited harassment then this is beside the point, but hypothetically.)

It opens up a can of worms as to what is legitimate criticism of social movements, ideologies, religion, what is just hate, and who should be pronouncing on that.

Kat
Kat
5 years ago

MRAs: Attempting to silence their opponents since before MRAs gave themselves that silly acronym.

It’s what they do.

It’s who they are.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
5 years ago

@delphi_ote

I know you’re a regular, but I’m side-eyeing the hell out of your both-sides-are-bad freeze peaching in this thread. Your obsession with what LF did and barely-nominal recognition of what TF did reminds me of nothing more than your stock-standard “SARKEESIAN IS A TIME-TRAVELLING COMMIE-NAZI WEREWOLF! SHE SECRETLY CONTROLS THE WORLD FROM HER VOLCANO MOON BASE! SHE KILLED JFK AND VOTED FOR BUSH! Oh, and the harassment is bad, maybe, I guess. Anyway, HER FATHER IS HITLER…” #GamerGate false neutrality.

Also, reporting somebody for a drunken rant about “Those damn [n-words]” to their employer isn’t as unheard of as you think. Because they might have coworkers who’d be unsafe around them. That drunken racist at the bar might physically attack his black coworker; Thunderbigot might physically attack his female coworker.