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In creepy Reddit megathread, thousands of women recount the first time they were perved on by a grown man

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So there’s a giant, growing, and extremely creepy megathread up on Reddit at the moment, and for once, the creepiness isn’t coming from inside the Reddit. Well, less of the creepiness is coming from Reddit than you might expect.

Yesterday, you see, a Redditor known as BA_Baracus posted a couple of simple questions to AskReddit: Women of Reddit, when did you first notice that men were looking at you in a sexual way? How old were you and how did it make you feel?

This wasn’t the first time he’d posted a question to his fellow Redditors; he’s posted a bunch, including “People of reddit with eyes that point in different directions, which one of them is usually looking at me?” and, er, “Recent rape victims of Reddit, how did it happen, and what the hell were you doing in India?” None of these questions got much of a response.

But this time, well, thousands of “women of Reddit” stepped forward to tell the horrifying yet in most cases completely unsurprising stories of the first time men started perving on them, in many cases before they were even teenagers.

Here’s a sampling of some of their stories. TRIGGER WARNING for extreme fucking creepiness.

Age 8, followed to a department store changing room

intoon 130 points 1 day ago  Holy shit, this thread is depressing, but (sadly,) makes me feel like I'm not alone. I was 8, had wandered away from my mom at Kmart. A creepy 40 something white guy in construction attire stared at my chest and butt, and followed me all around the store. I even went into the changing room to get away from him (stupid idea I know, but c'mon, I was 8!) he FOLLOWED ME INTO THE CHANGING ROOM. Tried to pull and shake the locked stall door open that I was hiding behind. I sat, curled into a ball on the changing seat, staring at his dirty work boots just on the other side of that door, terrified. Thank god a woman walked in to try on some clothes, saw him, and screamed at him to get out. After he had left, I ran out and found my Mom. I will never forget how frightened I was. I had no idea what he wanted with me, but the way he stared and his aggression trying to pull that changing room door open made me feel so sick and ashamed of my body and I wondered what I had done to make him come after me. I'm so crazy over protective with my kids and I'm sure some of it stems from that incident. I have to fight my anxiety anytime I take them to a park, or museum or even family gathering. They are always within my sight.

Age 8, molested by a landlord

DevilNTheDeepBlueSea 86 points 1 day ago  I was 8 when a landlord in Germany put his hands down my pants while I was feeding a rabbit he gave me. I ran away, he butchered the bunny that afternoon. I was 11 when a relative of my mother's husband (in his mid-thirties) tried to French kiss me. I told my mother & she found that "hard to believe". I was 16 and almost raped by 2 older guys (mid 20s) in a parking lot in Hawaii (daylight), until a construction worker walked up to stop it. At 17 I worked for a mobile equine vet who once called me in to his office where he was masturbating. I quite that job & caught hell from parents for being fickle. At 18 I was fired from a job for not giving head to a manager, embarrassed (AGAIN), I lied to friends/family about something stupid that I did to cause the job loss. I was 20 when a friend of my aunt offered me a ride home, he tried to rape me, that turned into a fist fight with him leaving mad & calling me crazy. At 26 a small animal veterinarian (50s) tried to corner/fondle me & 2 other assistants regularly. My husband thought women exaggerate these types of things, that it's rare. We're divorced. Should I continue? No, I did not dress provocative or act "flirty". And I don't think it matters if you're beautiful or just a girl. Or how old or experienced. It's insulting, shameful, & almost always very hurtful.

Age 12, at a bus stop

Cuddlebunz 208 points 1 day ago  I remember the first time pretty clearly. I was a mix of scared/angry/confused and I was only twelve years old. I was waiting at a bus stop alone, when a guy who was probably in his late twenties/early thirties came riding past on his bike. He slowed right down and whistled at me. When I ignored him, he turned on his bike and slowly rode right past me. I remember being pretty freaked out at how he leered at me. Twelve year old me had no idea what to do. He turned around and rode by again. Luckily a woman showed up to the same stop so I moved to stand near her. He finally rode off when he saw I wasn't by myself anymore (or maybe was bored I wasn't responding?) It was fucked up. Some men can be so disgusting.

11 or 12, walking to and from school

mermaids_singing 856 points 1 day ago  11 or 12. I remember walking to and from school (6th grade in the US) and having guys yell stuff out of cars. A couple times I had to hide out in a local coffee shop on the route home because I was getting harassed. Once because a carful of maybe late teens/early 20's dudes kept circling the block and asking me to ride with them and once because some older dude was walking the same way and kept talking about my tits and ass. I was 12 and had no idea how to deal with this so I started wearing baggy boy clothes....it lessened but didn't stop. I spent years working htrough my issues over this.

Age 12, waiting for carryout

WinstonScott 1052 points 1 day ago  When I was 12, my mom and I were at a small, carry-out only restaurant waiting for our order to be ready. This older guy, who looked like he was about 20 came in. He just stared at me, open-mouthed. I had to walk past him to fill my drink, and he said, "Hey baby. Give me some of that T & A." I didn't even know what T & A was! He even positioned himself so I would have to walk past him again when we left the restaurant, and he made another comment where he called me "Princess." Anyway, when we got in the car, I just broke down crying. I was so ashamed. My mom had had no idea that any of that had just occurred, and I told her that I didn't know what I had done wrong. I thought for sure I must have looked him at or done something to make him think that it was OK to talk and look at me like that. My mom assured me that it was nothing that I had done, and I that now that I was developing, things like that were going to happen a lot more frequently. If I had been older, the whole incident would have been fairly innocuous. But I was only 12 (and I definitely looked very young even though I had boobs and hips) so it was mildly traumatizing. What I find so disturbing now that I'm an adult, is how frequently, older, grown men would look and make sexual comments at me from the ages of 12-17. Like I said before, I looked very young, and I didn't dress provocatively. There's no way they could have mistaken me for 18+.

Age 11, creepy step-grandfather

vodka_titties 1579 points 1 day ago  I was 11. I had started to grow my boobs, and my step grandfather cornered me in my parents room one day. He stuck his tongue in my mouth and grabbed my boobs. I didn't know what to do so I pushed him away a little, said "abuelito did you want a hug?", and hugged him. Ughhh. I was scared I was going to get in trouble and that my parents would think I was making it up. They believed me, but just told me to avoid him for the rest of his stay.

Age 12, creepy step-uncle

BattleReady 2658 points 1 day ago  I was 12. I remember I was doing yard work for a step-uncle when he would constantly casually make "Huh" sounds and stand directly behind me when I would pull weeds. Suspicions were confirmed when he took me to lunch at the mall and offered to buy me tiny dresses and low cut shirts. I stopped associating with my step family after that as that's all they ever did.

Age 10, wearing a Lion King backpack and light-up shoes

lionking

Age 12, creepy cell phone salesman

Serae 3700 points 1 day ago  This...1999 or 2000? I was 12 and my mom was getting me a cell phone. This was before cell phone were as common for kids to have. I came home with my cellphone and got my first call. It was the young guy who set us up with the phone and the plan. He called to tell me that he thought I was hot and that he has my number since he set me up with my phone. I just small talked him, being overly nice as I wasn't really sure what to do. My mom noticed me on the phone and asked who I would even be calling (the phone as basically to call her and only her). I told her that the guy that sold us the phone was trying to get a date with me. She grabbed the phone and yelled into it, "She's 10 years old and you should be ashamed! If you ever call again I'll go to the police." He got off the phone quickly. I looked at my mom and said, "But...I'm 12?" "He needs to feel the additional shame of being a pig." And that was the moment I first noticed that someone was looking at me in a sexual way. My mother ended up going to the store and getting the guy fired. Apparently this wasn't the first time he'd used his job to get numbers of women to call. This time he got fired. That was also the year other things occurred, but this was the first.

Age 11, walking home from the beach

ALighterShadeOfPale 3919 points 1 day ago  Around age 11, myself and my cousin (she was also 11) were walking from the beach to the cottage (in shorts and t shirts). A car with three men began driving slowly next to us, asking for directions and for us to get in to show them where some campground was. We went into a convenience store and used their phone to call our grandmother to come get us. (Pre cellphones). The men were parked in the parking lot and followed our car to the cottage, which was set back from the road, had to go through trees and such to get to it. They parked out on the road by the entrance. My uncle (cousin's father) was told they were parked there and went out with his shot gun to ask if there was any problems. They didn't stick around. From that point on I became more aware of the yelling out car windows, the stares, the requests to get into vehicles (seriously, guys, does this ever work?)

Age 12, in Blockbuster (with bonus Reddit creepiness)

Flowsephine 4673 points 1 day ago*  I remember being in Blockbuster when I was 12 and having a man comment on my ass loud enough that multiple people turned around to glare at him. When my shocked mother informed him of my age he turned bright red and left the store. Edit: I can save a lot of you a lot of time and tell you that I HAVE NOT posted in /r/gonewild. The most you'll find in my post history is a very cute dog. Edit 2: As requested, here's the dog. 75% Australian Shepherd and 25% Heeler. I'm so glad he's been eye bleach for a lot of you, but don't forget what we are actually here to discuss.

14, eating a lollipop

glitterbugged 5006 points 1 day ago  I was 14 in a restaurant with my parents, sucking on a lollipop, when some dude approached to let me know that he wished he was the lollipop. I thought my dad might actually murder him. Age 12, eating a banana

sakana-no-ko 3577 points 1 day ago  This is sort of like what happened to my sister! We were at a fair and eating frozen chocolate covered bananas. I was 17 and she was 12. This white guy walked up to her and goes "Wow, it looks like you're eating a big black dick! Ha! You look good eating dick" and then a black guy behind him goes "Wish it was mine!" What disturbs me the most about that is I was right there, eating one too, and while I looked young, I could have been legal. She at 12 looked more like she was 10, she was so young looking and they chose to prey on her instead of an adult-looking target.

Naturally, some Redditors decided to add to the creepiness:

pretendtrainw00w00 2825 points 1 day ago*  When I was about ten years old, I developed breasts but hadn't really noticed yet. I was wearing a shirt with no bra, when a boy in my class kept passing my desk over and over again. About the fifth time, I looked up at him to see what was going on, and he was staring right down the v-neck of my top. That was the moment my entire damn life changed. Edit: For those wondering what it is like to be a woman, the creepy PMs have officially started. From a post speaking about my breasts when I was 10.

And all this makes pretty clear just why we need age of consent laws:

CheezIt624 3453 points 1 day ago*  I was 12, already gone through puberty and was pretty developed. I learned very quickly that men don't care if you're 12 as long as you LOOK like you're 17-18. This is why I argue so strongly for consent laws. I was fucking 12 with Beanie Babies and Sweet Valley High books and shit, and grown men were trying to fuck me because I was a C cup and looked older. And I liked the attention, because all any girl wants is to feel wanted and mature and adult. It's why we start fantasizing about our first cars and sneak cigarettes from our parents - we want to feel older and cool. I didn't know I could say no to these men, and I felt so much older and mature when they'd pay attention to me, and so that began a rough few years of letting men have sex with me. I phrase it that way because that's what it was - did I say yes? Yes. Did I want to? No. I was scared to say no to these older guys. It took till maybe 18 or so before I realized I didn't have to do anything I didn't want to. Edit: And I've already received my first PM saying 12 year old slutty me wanted it.

Of course, many of these creepy guys are well aware that the targets of their creepiness are a long way away from being “legal.”

I_Dont_Own_A_Cat 1151 points 1 day ago*  I was 12, already gone through puberty and was pretty developed. I learned very quickly that men don't care if you're 12 as long as you LOOK like you're 17-18. The worst part is that plenty of men who catcall well-developed young teens don't really think they look 17 or 18. They know perfectly damn well they are catcalling 11-15 year olds. They know perfectly damn well 11-15 year olds are "easier" and safer to harass, for the reasons you stated in your post. My body developed pretty young, but I remain short and babyfaced. Even in my early 20s, I occasionally would get hit on by adult men who said or did things that indicated they thought I was very young with big breasts. Asking where I went to high school, etc. Those men didn't think that I was older-looking, they specifically targeted that I was very young-looking. Two different times I've had a men flat out say state, with mild disappointment, they thought I was younger when I told them my age, once after randomly asking if I like to party and offering to buy me alcohol while I was walking down the street.

Check out the thread for countless more stories like this.

H/T — u/Iwillpixiecutyou on Reddit

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Myriad
Myriad
5 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger

Yeah, that sounds like what probably went down. I don’t know if he will have any awakening himself to the stark reality that we seen to occupy. One can only hope.

M.
M.
5 years ago

I’ve mentioned this enormous asshole composed of smaller, haemorrhoidal assholes guy before. I was 15, he was a 25-year-old Internet groomer, long story short, he raped me almost every day for three straight months. Highlights include the entirety of my sexual knowledge beforehand being “Boys have penises, girls have vaginas, sex makes babies and diseases, boys like sex but girls don’t” (hooray for abstinence-only sex ed), him holding a gun to his head every time I told him to stop and exactly three of my dozens of friends believing me (and it turned out one of those three had also been raped by him). I and his other victims were lucky in the end, though; he still has a decade left on his 25-year sentence with zero chance of parole.

I thought he just wanted to talk about Pokemon… =/

weirwoodtreehugger
5 years ago

That’s horrible. I’m glad he’s in jail where he belongs.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
5 years ago

@StaciCakes:

“There are a TON of creepy, predatory men out there. People don’t even understand what we go through, way younger than we should ever have to put up with it.”

And that boggles my mind. Given how frequent and ‘natural’ it is, how come it isn’t common knowledge?

I am very much convinced that there is a conspiracy of silence around this issue, of the kind described by Alice Miller (whose books I strongly recommend to all survivors of childhood abuse, and not only sexual; another person worth reading is Andrew Vachss http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches.html — may gods bless him and keep him strong and healthy for years).

@autosoma:

I understand your modesty, but you are a decent man in my (and not only) book. Any man who does not abuse girls (and boys) and women is. It may only seem like too low of a bar to decent people who do not quite realize how common abuse is.

And a man who stands up to abusers, in any way, is positively a hero. I am very serious.

ssaly88
5 years ago

My first experiences with this sort of thing were when I was between 9 and 12. It was a guy my mom worked with, and he was always making comments toward me about how I was his girlfriend and how pretty I was. My mom always told him that he was just teasing me and that he didn’t really mean it. I didn’t know how to tell her that even if he was just joking, it made me feel gross and it was WILDLY inappropriate. I kept telling him to stop too, but he never did.

I actually got molested by my babysitter’s brother when she went out for a few minutes to the store. He told me to close my eyes and then shoved my hand down his pants. I knew what was happening, but I didn’t say anything for YEARS, because I thought I had done something that made him want to do that to me. I couldn’t say what it was, but I was convinced for a long time that it was my fault it happened.

Funny thing is, I was always a gangly thing – My boobs were never big, I didn’t develop an ass until I was 19, and if you cut my hair I could probably have passed for a little boy instead of a girl. I got a lot less of the attention I’ve read about in the comments here and on Reddit, but I still got it. I was uncomfortable with it then.

And a fucked-up finish to my tale: when I got older, and I noticed that some girls got more of this unwanted attention, instead of feeling lucky, I felt INADEQUATE. Like I was less attractive than them because I hadn’t gotten as many cat calls or molestation attempts. I knew that was a really fucked-up feeling to have, and I knew that this weird jealousy was just rape culture speaking, from hearing my whole life that these assaults were just compliments to pretty women, but it took me so long to get rid of that irrational envy I had for women that had story after story after story about men being inappropriate and gross with them.

@Bina: Thank you! I was beginning to feel like I was the only person on the planet who thought that it was fucked up and not normal for a grown man who raises a child to woo her when she gets older. I have a real love of father/daughter relationships in media, especially if the man acting as father is not actually a blood relation to the girl, so things like Les Miserables are really near and dear to my heart. If anyone recognizes the character in my gravatar, she and her male guardian are my current fictive kinship fix. So, naturally, I feel really grossed out when people start twisting those relationships into something sexual, especially when they try to pass off the “he raises her and then takes advantage of her later” thing as ROMANTIC. It’s actually gotten to be a trigger for me at this point. Needless to say, I’m finding it hard to be in fandoms with my favorite father/daughter characters in them now, because there are so many people who want to wax poetic on how cute they are as a romantic couple. Granted, these are just fictional characters, but I can’t help thinking about the real instances of this that happen all the time when it’s mentioned, and apparently, neither can the people who think it’s sweet. They often talk about real life to justify it in fiction too.

Sorry for the wall of text. Just had to get those things off my chest.

Tea
Tea
5 years ago

8 years old. Three teenage boys (maybe 17-19 years old, possibly older) followed me into the elevator in my apartment building. They told me to take off my pants. I sobbed while fiddling with my zipper and lied “It’s stuck”. One of them said, “That’s enough, we scared her good” and got out of the elevator. I came home shaken up but didn’t tell my parents because I thought something “dirty” happened and they would punish me.

When I was 13, a middle aged man on the subway licked his lips and patted his lap to indicate he wanted me to sit in it.

Corinn
5 years ago

One of the only good things about being trans with a very hostile/abusive family is that I never received sexual harassment until I was older and came out full-time. Since my family forced me to perpetuate the lie that I was a boy, I wasn’t subjected to leering horny creeper guys.

After I came out though? Wooooow. The level of harassment varies, but recently I had to threaten a former customer with a restraining order because he would not stop calling and texting me pressuring me to make myself more sexy for his dick. Not even a week later, I get followed home by a creepy creeper who stopped at my apartment door and started jerking himself off through his pocket while staring at me. After I slammed the door in his face, he kept trying to climb over my patio fence to try and get inside. I was about to call the police, but a neighbor started yelling at him.

So much of the sexual harassment I get is much more blunt and direct, skipping over the less creepy flirting and goes directly to pressuring for or demanding sex. Sometimes even right on the spot. Cis women may get harassment, but when it happens to trans women, the creepers throw caution to the wind and go directly for the kill.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

I do bet that the guy who started the thread probably thought he’d get all these fun, sexy stories about young women in their late teens having sexual awakenings. Because of male privilege he didn’t realize how common it is for adult to men to creep on young women. It’s not fun and sexy it’s scary.

Ugh. If there was one thing that I never wanted, early in my teens or late, it was to be “sexually awakened” by an older man. Father figures aren’t erotic for most girls, or most grown women either. And for them to step out of their parent-like role and into that of a “lover” when a girl crosses some supposed maturational turning point (or even worse, just proceeding with grooming and rape regardless of how young and small she is) is abhorrent. It appears that men like to read Lolita as an ideal romance, while women and girls understand it as a cautionary tale. We don’t need “initiators”. We want partners. Why is that so goddamn hard to understand?

Oh yeah: Abstinence-only feeds right into that, doesn’t it? A girl is kept “pure” so that some geezer (assigned by the church or chosen by her parents?) can wipe his dick on her and imagine he’s been given back his youth. Comprehensive sex-ed is therefore the devil, because it gives girls the language and the power to say BACK OFF, MISTER, I DON’T WANT YOU. The scariest thing in the world to an abuser is that his victim might actually stand up and use her voice, because what comes out is bound to dash his entire fantasy of himself as “seducer”. So he rigs the system to ensure as much silence from her as possible. Ghaaah.

@Bina: Thank you! I was beginning to feel like I was the only person on the planet who thought that it was fucked up and not normal for a grown man who raises a child to woo her when she gets older. I have a real love of father/daughter relationships in media, especially if the man acting as father is not actually a blood relation to the girl, so things like Les Miserables are really near and dear to my heart. If anyone recognizes the character in my gravatar, she and her male guardian are my current fictive kinship fix. So, naturally, I feel really grossed out when people start twisting those relationships into something sexual, especially when they try to pass off the “he raises her and then takes advantage of her later” thing as ROMANTIC. It’s actually gotten to be a trigger for me at this point. Needless to say, I’m finding it hard to be in fandoms with my favorite father/daughter characters in them now, because there are so many people who want to wax poetic on how cute they are as a romantic couple. Granted, these are just fictional characters, but I can’t help thinking about the real instances of this that happen all the time when it’s mentioned, and apparently, neither can the people who think it’s sweet. They often talk about real life to justify it in fiction too.

You’re definitely NOT the only one! I love Les Misérables, the book (haven’t seen the latest movie or the musical, so I don’t know how far they diverge from the original). I think the reason Jean Valjean is a hero is because he doesn’t abuse what little privilege he’s managed to scrape off the surface of the rotten society he lives in. He goes to prison in the first place for stealing bread to feed his starving sister and her hungry children. So it’s natural that it would be abhorrent for him to use his so-called “advantage” as Cosette’s guardian to push his luck with her. She’s not his plaything, but his younger, more vulnerable comrade in the struggle. And she’s the closest thing he has to a daughter. He also sees the painful way her mother dies (from the side effects of a life of prostitution and dire poverty), so that too plays into his refusal to harm her; he wouldn’t dream of plunging her into the same cesspool just for a little dick-fun. I think the reason he takes her under his wing is because he was deprived by 18 years’ imprisonment of the chance to care for his sister and her family. He has, in that sense, an undone duty to complete. To “seduce” or “marry” Cosette is to violate his own self, because his whole life has become a mission to protect the weak, and to prevent injustice from perpetuating itself.

autosoma
5 years ago

We have two daughters aged 6 & 9, which is the age that a combination of sexual assault and sexualization occurred to my wife, this is quite triggering for her as she remembers back. Its made much worse by her having a father who is a child psychologist who (allegedly) specialises in child sexual abuse who rejects what she says. This is quite tough on her as I am aware that parents are often the last to know, but I support her in her choice of no-contact.

This and reddit have been an eye opener for me, I guessed it was pretty extensive (from knowing niceguys(tm) and general dickheads in the pub and the workplace) but the extent is quite horrific.

I wish I knew what I could do to support my wife and ensure that when shit like this happens (and I hope it doesn’t, but my hope for a better society gland has shrivelled over the years ) I can muster the necessaries to support through it.

@aunt edna I’ve met very very few men I would consider decent maybe three or four, so thank you

technicolorstatic
5 years ago

You know, I don’t usually comment on anything. Combination of usually being on my phone and just reading other folks saying it better. My story isn’t all that traumatizing, just frustrating and sad. But I added to the pile. I hope people feel less alone reading these. I did. I know it’s disheartening to see how many women’s initial sexual experiences are abusive. But I hope that people gain some perspective from it.

lkeke35
5 years ago

I think I was present once when this happened to one young girl I met.

It was almost summer vacation and school had just let out for the day. Me and my Mom been on an errand and had just come in the house. After about fifteen or thirty minutes there was a knock on our door and this little girl was standing there, in her school uniform. I think maybe she saw us coming into the house. She couldn’t have been more than eight or nine and she was terrified. In my entire life I’ve never seen a child look more frightened. She was crying and wringing her hands and asked my mother and me if she could come inside.

We’d never met her this little girl, but she felt she could trust us. We let her in and she told us that some man in a car had been following her home and she was too scared to walk home. So she pretended like our house was her house. She told us he said stuff to her but she didn’t tell us what he said. We calmed her down and found that she lived just a couple of streets over. We told her we’d wait until my brother got to our place and he would escort her home, which he did.

This happened about ten years ago and I have never forgotten the look of terror on that little girls face. I don’t know what my brother said to her Mom or how she was handled at home.

I have a niece the same age as her and I’m going to assume that this little girl was given the same advice we give my niece. The same advice given to me again and again and again, everytime I walked out of the house.

If you feel unsafe in public, for any reason, find an adult you trust, a woman if possible, explain to her what’s wrong or just stand close to her. If possible get her to call a family member and memorize family members phone numbers. Or go into the nearest public place, a library, a large store. When in a department store, find a shop clerk, any woman in uniform, that you feel she feels you can trust.

Yep, grown women can follow this advice too.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
5 years ago

@autosoma:

Your last sentence is depressing (in that very low number of decent men you know), but I believe you, of course.

I remain hopeful against hope because I’m married to a decent man, we’ve raised decent sons, and I see men like you, Alan, and other commenters here, as well as in other corners of the web (and world), including those who dedicate their lives to fighting misogyny, like David, and child abuse, like Andrew Vachss.

As long as decent people, men especially, bravely speak out against the misogyny that allows other men treat women and girls like things to use and abuse for their own pleasure, there is some hope for us, still. The vocal minority of morally correct individuals has the power to influence the world, if only in incremental ways.

I am also a psychologist by training, and helping victims of abuse has been part of my work. I can tell you that for your wife’s father to disbelieve her is unconscionable (and also rather unprofessional; the fact that he specializes in child abuse is chilling).

As a survivor — or transcender, to use Vachss’ term — of child abuse, and a mother myself, I believe I can imagine what your wife is going through. The transcenders usually don’t tell their parents (or anyone else) because of their shame and entirely justified fear of being disbelieved. When they manage to summon the courage to speak out and are met with disbelief, particularly from their parents, it is devastating and deeply alienating, perhaps unforgivably so.

She needs to do what she considers right for her to heal not only from the abuse, but from the secondary trauma of being disbelieved by her father. If that involves no contact, so be it.

What you can do is be there for her, which you are already doing, and support her decisions. What all transcenders need is a compassionate witness, someone who will hear their story and pain, and, first and foremost, accept its truth.

I would suggest that she (and you) read Alice Miller’s books (if she has not read any yet). They are therapeutic in themselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Miller_%28psychologist%29#Writings

lkeke35
5 years ago

Misogynists try to create social situations where women are beaten down and demoralized and blamed for their bad behavior, no matter what they do. It’s the reason that women are constantly being given conflicting rules for how to be around men they don’t know, castigated for not taking responsibility for their own behavior, blamed for all of mens behavior, etc.

When you do behave responsibly, in an effort to protect yourself, it’s misandry and you should stop being mean to men and smile more and yada, yada, yada. When you tell men to accept responsibility for their behavior towards women it’s misandry. Dressing nice is misandry, not dressing nice enough to please men is misandry, getting fat, being too thin, not performing femininity to some random guys exact specifications such that he feels perfectly comfortable screaming at you about this in the streets.

And then men like this have the nerve to disingenuously ask why we act the way we do, or don’t trust them or even hate them. They blame us for all that. I say they need to blame the handful of men making life Hell for the women in their lives, the women they would like to have in their lives (but can’t get close to them because-misandry!), the women they’d like to compliment, but can’t the women they’d like to smile at or get their phone numbers.

The reason why decent men can’t act decent towards women in public is because of the half dozen indecent men we just spent dodging the company of that morning, that day, that week and by the time we reach them, our patience for yet more more man, wanting our attention for some damn reason or another, (no matter how decent a person he thinks he is), is at an end.

Men need to understand that the people messing it all up for you, are other men, not us.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

Thanks for all the hugs and well-wishes for me and my story, and nthing it right back to everyone else in the thread.

I feel I should mention this happened to me over a decade ago, and my abuser is firmly behind bars (even after an appeal).

The first trial was my freshman year in high school, then two and some-odd years of peace and trying to work out my feelings, and then BAM. Senior year, and I had to go back to court to relive my trauma in front of another jury. I remember sitting in the hallway with my mother crying into her arms, begging for her to not make me go back in there. And I know she didn’t want to let me go. But I had to. I did. And now he’s gone.

There’s been issues in my family since my brother and sister are his biological kids, and my brother never quite got over the fact that his father’s gone (he screamed at me once that I “took him away” from him, and I’ve never really gotten over that), but we’ve worked it out the best we can, and we try to stay in touch.

As for those who haven’t experienced harassment: Good. I thank the heavens above that you haven’t, and may it forever stay that way for you and yours.

lkeke35 | April 12, 2015 at 1:44 pm
Men need to understand that the people messing it all up for you, are other men, not us.

QFT.

lkeke35
5 years ago

Corinn: I didn’t know that about trans women. I just assumed you’d get the harassment, but in the exact same form as cisgendered women.

So, apparently,creepazoids just throw any and all caution to the winds, when it comes to transgendered women, huh? They don’t even try to pretend to be decent.Wow!

anarchodin
anarchodin
5 years ago

As a socially awkward man, I really have just the one thing to say: Wow.

Being one of these men is a huge fear for me. It seems like it should be for any sane guy. Why isn’t it? Our culture really is disturbed. Curiosity I’d understand, but it really isn’t that at all past early teens. I just … don’t get it.

lkeke35
5 years ago

Bina: Well we’ve seen over and over again that the most frightening thing in the world, for such men, is to be told they can’t have something. abstinence teaching fits right in with that. Women and girls are kept too ignorant of themselves to say no.

What such men want, is a bunch of women and girls who don’t know or understand that their bodies belong to themselves and they are the only ones who get to choose what they can do with it. What you just said explains so many of the Warren Jeffs of the world and all their female purity BS.

I believe it’s the reason so many cults get started,anyway. Cults are often grooming colonies, so that the leader can have a captive harem of women and young girls they can use for themselves or give away as gifts to their creepy friends.

jaygee
jaygee
5 years ago

Thanks to everyone who shared their stories, and all the sympathy and hugs for people who suffered trauma and/or assault should they choose to accept.

I’ve led a fairly sheltered and fortunate life. I’m a cis hetero woman, but catcalls and street harassment is not a normal part of my life. I’ve actually only been hollered at from a car once in my life, and I was maybe 15, possibly 16. I was walking to the library or grocery store one summer’s day wearing some jean shorts. I don’t even remember what was said, but I did not feel afraid.

As far as the OP from Reddit, the first time I noticed sexual attention from guys, it wasn’t even really me that noticed it. In my freshman year of high school (so 14 or 15 y.o.), one of my guy friends in swim class told me I shouldn’t swim backstroke. I forget if he implicitly or explicitly said the other guys were looking at my chest. It made me feel a bit self conscious then but didn’t really affect me much.

I actually recently (within the last 5 years, and I’m 28) learned about how common street harassment is for a majority of women. I’ve never had creepy attention from older men, or really any negative attention from men in general. I don’t know how I managed to be so lucky in this respect. (I am average looking and a quiet person who is not terribly fashionable, so maybe I manage to be invisible.) I did learn that one of my childhood friends was molested by an uncle. One of my other friends gets hollered at a lot, usually about her booty. My mom just this year told me about some 20 something year old man in her village jerking off to her when she was maybe 5. She said he lured her to the long grass with a cookie.

I can understand some people being surprised at the stories shared, but it seems out of line to discount people’s lived experience.

autosoma
5 years ago

@aunt edna – yes your are right about decent men, I was thinking more of my immediate IRL circle. Regarding my wife dad, I once spoke to him about it and he was more interested in protecting his professional reputation than supporting his daughter, so when she decided on NC it was an easy support. Sometimes listening to what she says is a difficult listen and I have no idea what to do and feel worthless/anomic for not being able to do anything.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
5 years ago

@lkeke35:

“I believe it’s the reason so many cults get started,anyway. Cults are often grooming colonies, so that the leader can have a captive harem of women and young girls they can use for themselves or give away as gifts to their creepy friends.”

This.

Scratch the surface of any religious or similar cult, especially one led by a male guru (and almost all of them are), and you’ll find sexual abuse and perversion right underneath. Gaining free and easy sexual access to many naive girls, women, and boys (and sometimes men) is typically the unspoken (and un/subconscious) reason for the cult’s rise and existence.

Catalpa
Catalpa
5 years ago

@gilshalos

There are definitely upstanding dudes out there too, which makes some of these assholes’ behavior even more inappropriate because, no, you shitstains, most dudes wouldn’t rape someone if given half a chance.

I was pretty lucky through my childhood, barring a few incidents of sexual harassment, and the first guy I dated was in university. We slept over at each other’s dorms all the time, but I wasn’t comfortable with the idea of having sex. (This was prior to my realization that I was ace, but I’d latched onto the ‘saving myself for marriage’ reason, because I REALLY didn’t want to have sex).

I was sleeping in the same bed as a guy who I was dating, who I kissed and made out with in bed some, and you know what sort of sexual things he did to me? Absolutely nothing. He never tried to go below the belt, because he knew I didn’t want to. He never tried touching me when I was asleep and vulnerable. It never even occured to me that someone else might have.

Rape isn’t something that should be expected to happen in these sorts of situations, or in ANY situations, and people who believe differently, that rape or ignoring consent is justified if ________, are absolutely despicable.

Aunt Edna
Aunt Edna
5 years ago

@autosoma:

Some dad, your FIL.

It is a very difficult listen. It does not get easier and one never gets used to it. It is a natural reaction to feel anomic for not being able to do anything about the abuse itself.

There is nothing you can do, other than show her your support in the many various ways you already do. And that’s plenty.

From the perspective of time and experience, I can tell you that the pain usually, though not always, lessens, even if it probably never entirely goes away for most.

smithshadow
5 years ago

I must share one story I heard from a male friend in Texas which disturbed me deeply. He admitted he knew a group of men who waited outside High Schools in order to choose their new girlfriend when they became tired of their current ‘underage’ girlfriend.

autosoma
5 years ago

@aunt Edna

Thank you again; some solid words there my wife starts actual real therapy Tuesday, I’m elated and terrified at the same time, I’ll try my best, I’ll make some mistakes along the way supporting her – hopefully nothing that will be retrograde to the changes that she undergoes. My wife’s advice to me about what I should do is, let her rant and nod my head – seems fair enough.

I really liked what @ikeke35 had to say about blokes ruining it for blokes – I’ll use that next time I meet geezers who are PUA’s,MRA’s and MGTOW-ers (which will be on about 36 hours there is one decent fella at this meet up – the other guys think were either aliens or not real men) whining about – well you know what they whine about.

Robert
Robert
5 years ago

I was hoping that the OP had been inspired by a desire to give women an opportunity to speak their truths in a (relatively) safe way, and expose these behaviors for what they are – abusive, cruel and manipulative.

I wish I still could.

Full disclosure – I have two sons, one just turned eighteen, the other almost fourteen. I have not seen either of them exhibit any of these behaviors, and sincerely hope that it doesn’t happen at all. I don’t think it does.

because reasons
because reasons
5 years ago

@Alto Fronto Thank you. It’s left its scars for sure, but I have worked through the bulk of it and am finally in a healthy, loving relationship (after years of abusive ones with creepsters).

@sunnysombrera Thanks to you too. Since I never knew any “father figure” that wasn’t abusive and pervy, my idea about fathers, male role models, and men in general was pretty warped. As I said, I still get grossed out when I see a dad with his kids (because part of me immediately assumes he’s a predator), but I’ve learned to tell myself that #notalldads, basically.

@Supernova Your story reminds me of a time I was with my mom getting gas and she told me one of the male attendants had said (to her) “Your daughter is really pretty, she should smile more.” I was like “Wtf? He should mind his own goddamn biz” but she told me to take it as a compliment and that he was flirting with me. UGH. That kind of stuff did NOT help- it basically told me my instincts towards creepsters was wrong, or at the very least, rude and unlady-like. Which unfortunately is how society still deals with girls/women. Always be nice above all else, be pretty, don’t be fat, remember to hate your body, other women are just competition, men are gods, etc etc. It’s 2015, FFS! When is this gonna end?!

Also, seconding whoever thanked everyone for sharing! You are all brave, we are all survivors of something, which is what makes us so strong and awesome. And Thank you so much to David and the rest for giving us a SAFE place to share our stories! HUGS for everyone! (Oh, and some kittehs)comment imagecomment imagecomment image

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
5 years ago

Oh my god, I just thought about how the MRA are just gonna dismiss this shit.

Why.

because reasons
because reasons
5 years ago

@WWTH

I do bet that the guy who started the thread probably thought he’d get all these fun, sexy stories about young women in their late teens having sexual awakenings

My thoughts, exactly! He was probably imagining his post turning into some version of Penthouse Forum or whatever it’s called. Women recounting their earliest sexual experiences, with older guys…oh, boy! Time to get out the wank-lotion! Fuck. Him.

And I’m sure even with all the disturbing accounts he got instead, he’s still sitting in a pool of his own spooge. Because as sickening as it is, the thing that gets these guys off more than anything else is seeing or hearing about a woman being vulnerable, getting dominated or abused/harassed, or in their minds “getting what’s coming to her” or “being shown the ways of proper ManlyMen love.” Gross. K, off to wretch and cry.

because reasons
because reasons
5 years ago

@Banana Jackie
Of course! Everyone knows women just looooove playing the victim for all the attention they get! In reality, these ladiiieeez probably loved every second of it. Also, wimmenz are always bitching about this stuff like it’s bad…when any man would loooove to be “sexually harassed” or “molested”, because logic.

Ew.

Dawn Incognito
Dawn Incognito
5 years ago

@Catalpa:

I was sleeping in the same bed as a guy who I was dating, who I kissed and made out with in bed some, and you know what sort of sexual things he did to me? Absolutely nothing. He never tried to go below the belt, because he knew I didn’t want to. He never tried touching me when I was asleep and vulnerable. It never even occured to me that someone else might have.

I’ve been thinking about my first boyfriend for quite some time in this fashion. I was about 16, his parents were gone for the weekend, and we were fooling around. He tried to put his hand in my panties and I kinda froze up and told him to stop. He did, and although I stayed there for the remainder of the weekend, and we continued fooling around and slept in the same bed together, he did not try again. No pressure, no nothing. Just doing things that I was comfortable with.

I shouldn’t be so grateful for this. It should be a normal story. But I know that had he tried to pressure me, I would have eventually acquiesced even though I didn’t really want to. I almost wish I had some way of thanking him for not being a selfish boundary-violating asshole. It’s apparently a big fucking deal.

Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
Banana Jackie Cake, the Best Jackie and Cake! Yum! (^v^)
5 years ago

@because reasons

Whhhhyyyyyy did you saaaay that it was bad enough thinking it noooooooo

Dawn Incognito
Dawn Incognito
5 years ago

Also, in the way of brain bleach, I give you CHICKCAM!

[ustream id=538640 live=1 hwaccel=1 version=3 width=480 height=302]
Broadcast live streaming video on Ustream

(lessee if that embeds properly)

because reasons
because reasons
5 years ago

@Banana Jackie
I know. I feel gross for saying it. I’m sorry! We need more brain bleach, stat!

@Dawn
I wish it wasn’t a big fucking deal to find a decent man who respects boundaries. But, you’re right. I have encountered a couple and I felt the same way- like I should send them a fruit basket or something for being decent towards me. As for the other douchepervs in my life, they need a basket full of shit delivered to them.

BritterSweet
5 years ago

Internet hugs (if they’re wanted) to everyone who had such awful experiences. It’s sad and telling just how much that Reddit thread became a megathread because of just how often it happens. Even sadder yet somehow not surprising that certain Redditors are being gross about it too. Some of the posts were edited to add how the posters received disgusting PMs in response to their stories of being molested and harassed *as kids.*

I was very fortunate to have protective parents who warned me at an early age of child molesters and kidnappers (or “the bad man/lady”), taught me to use words like vagina and penis without embarrassment, and drove me to and from school. The only problem is it was framed in the stranger danger fashion and didn’t address what if it was someone I knew. There was an uncle who, as I grew into my teens, would lean in closer to me than I was comfortable with at family gatherings and once took a picture of me when I was asleep. When I told my parents it made me feel uncomfortable, they said it was harmless and cute.

At age 17 I had just finished high school and had a summer job at Chuck E Cheese. I was working at the prizes counter when a man old enough to have grandkids was telling me to smile for him with a creepy grin of his own. What I felt was a sort of combination of nervousness and protectiveness of the children. My guard was up until he finally left, without any kids in tow, and I spent the rest of the day suspicious of what he was doing at a Chuck E Cheese.

Kane Thari
5 years ago

Wow, this is really eye-opening. I’m sixteen and lucky enough to be pretty sheltered and not have any stories like these yet, but they’re all awful. Hugs to anyone who had to go through this.

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Cults are often grooming colonies, so that the leader can have a captive harem of women and young girls they can use for themselves or give away as gifts to their creepy friends.

Exactly. I’m sure that the original Mormon cult (and their various fundie offshoots today) got started just so a greedy guy could have the pick of the girls for himself, and/or use them as leverage to acquire shit-tons of money and property. The really unbelievable part is that they brainwash girls for it by telling them they won’t get to heaven except with the help of their polygamous husband. So those “marriages” are called “celestial marriages”. No doubt it’s heaven on Earth for him, and hell on wheels for the girls. And not too surprisingly, in the really fundie-fundie cults, the girls are married off as soon as they hit puberty. Because to leave them without “celestial husbands” at such a “dangerous” time is too tempting. They might start finding boyfriends their own age, and that’s not kosher. The outside world is “Babylon”, and the spectre of rape is held over their heads there. No, better to tie them down as soon as possible, trapped in a cycle of pregnancy and more pregnancy, so they never get a chance even to think of a different life.

wordsp1nner
5 years ago

I’ve mentioned this before, but I haven’t gotten sexually harassed to the extent that many women have, especially by strangers. My biggest problem was senior Spanish class, and when he finally provoked me into making a scene, the teacher told me that sometimes boys do things to get girls attention. I decided it wasn’t worth it to tell her anything else.

A few years later, I sent her an email telling her that what she’d apparently missed was a year-long campaign of harassment and when she brushes off “minor” problems it sends the signal that she won’t listen about major ones. She did apologize and I hope I she changed her behavior.

My sister, though… my sister is a fucking magnet. Just this week a guy at Starbucks used the name on her card to try to friend her on Facebook. She’s going to complain to the manager, but her first instinct was to find another Starbucks.

But our Dad is really supportive–his suggestion for when older men hit on her when she was still underage was to give them his cell phone number. She never, as far as I know, did, but I would have loved to hear that conversation. (The military recruiters were fairly aggressive towards me, and I felt bad being rude to them on the phone. He didn’t. They stopped calling. It was great.)

Ellesar
5 years ago

How disgusting (but not at all surprising) that this is being used by men on Reddit as wank fodder.

I have read many accounts of the sexual abuse of children on EverydaySexism and it always makes me think – things are WORSE for girls and young women than when I was young.

But of course it happened to me too. I was 9 and groped genitally by a 40+ man when I was walking home from school. I still remember what he looked like – real stereotype of a paedophile. I went to the swimming pool a lot when I was 9-11 and it was very clear that many men perved on me and my friends. By the age of 11 I was well aware that men 30+ were not safe people to be around.

I was treated as if I was a prostitute quite often 12+. The general consensus about this kind of behaviour was ‘oh well, there is nothing you can do about it’ – it was the 70s and I do not think that many adult women around me had been empowered AT ALL – they taught us Stranger Danger, but my own mother minimised what happened to me all the time.

For some reason old men approached me ALL the time. Middle aged men were the worst – I didn’t get much crap from teens or 20s at all – in comparison. Now I am a middle aged woman I feel SO distrustful of men my age because in my personal experience middle aged men lust after the under 15s most of all.

The ONLY thing to do about this is to be loud and unashamed. Make a lot of noise. Make it clear that you know that he is a perve. DO NOT let them get away with it. Yes, people WILL call you crazy and aggressive, but if it gets one of these men away from yet another girl, and lets that girl know that there are adults looking out for her then it is worth it.

Paradoxical Intention
5 years ago

For people being harassed for someone’s phone number (in the United States), there’s a fake number you can give them that tells them off for being creepy when they call it, instead of outright rejecting him and risking him getting violent:

New York, NY: +1 917 512 2833
Chicago, IL: +1 312 697 1778
London, GB: +44 20 3095 4193
Toronto, ON: +1 647 496 0921
Montreal, QC: (438) 793-7247 (in French!)
Monterrey, MX: +52 81 4170 7141
Tel Aviv, IS: +97237630163

If you’d like to know more, click this!

Of course, there are guys who will insist upon calling it before they get you out of their sight so they can be sure, but you can give him this number and try to get away in the meantime.

Stay safe out there!

(Sorry, I posted this in the wrong thread earlier. My bad.)

ssaly88
5 years ago

You’re definitely NOT the only one! I love Les Misérables, the book (haven’t seen the latest movie or the musical, so I don’t know how far they diverge from the original). I think the reason Jean Valjean is a hero is because he doesn’t abuse what little privilege he’s managed to scrape off the surface of the rotten society he lives in. He goes to prison in the first place for stealing bread to feed his starving sister and her hungry children. So it’s natural that it would be abhorrent for him to use his so-called “advantage” as Cosette’s guardian to push his luck with her. She’s not his plaything, but his younger, more vulnerable comrade in the struggle. And she’s the closest thing he has to a daughter. He also sees the painful way her mother dies (from the side effects of a life of prostitution and dire poverty), so that too plays into his refusal to harm her; he wouldn’t dream of plunging her into the same cesspool just for a little dick-fun. I think the reason he takes her under his wing is because he was deprived by 18 years’ imprisonment of the chance to care for his sister and her family. He has, in that sense, an undone duty to complete. To “seduce” or “marry” Cosette is to violate his own self, because his whole life has become a mission to protect the weak, and to prevent injustice from perpetuating itself.

The movie and musical don’t deviate too much from the general storyline, so it still has the same adorable relationship between Jean Valjean and Cosette. The book is actually one of my all time favorite novels, it’s so amazing!

I agree with everything you said about Valjean’s feelings towards Cosette. They needed each other because Cosette was in an abusive environment and needed a good adult in her life to give her everything she needed, and Valjean cared for her so unconditionally that it never would have occurred to him to hurt her in that way. It’s so wrong that people pervert those kinds of relationships, and it happens so often in my fandoms that I barely feel even safe participating in them anymore.

LBT
LBT
5 years ago

We were first raped when we were eight. It only got worse from there on out, and we didn’t manage to escape the raping till we were seventeen.

Those were nine very long years. (And we still had people creeping on us until last year, because even at twenty-seven, we still get mistaken for being in high school sometimes.)

On the plus side, I’ve come out publicly about it, am making comics about it, and warned my younger brother and the family. None of them are actually DOING anything about it, but fuck them, we’re out now, and we can at least help other people (and make some money off the whole fucking thing, which helps).

because reasons
because reasons
5 years ago

It was seeing people on television talk shows telling their stories of abuse that finally got me to thinking “I’m not crazy, this wasn’t MY fault, and I don’t have to be silent or ashamed anymore!” (sorry about the c-word but that’s how I felt at the time) So thank goodness for brave women (and men) who speak up! I agree, it is the only way to make any progress. I haven’t been super vocal about my experiences, but I’m also not shy about discussing it when the topic comes up.

The only ones who should feel disgusting and ashamed are the predators!

LBT
LBT
5 years ago

Yeah. Over the years, I’ve started being more and more open and forceful about it, in part because a LOT of multiples I encounter have horrendous life histories and desperately need to know they aren’t alone.

That and I figure that if half a dozen kids getting raped aren’t enough to influence my family’s behavior, the slight whiff of possible public shaming might do the job. (This is a very minor thought for me, and only comes up because of how they reacted when they stalked my blog and found me mentioning the incest publicly. You’d think I’d called them Nazi Klansmen from Mars.)

CL
CL
5 years ago

Yeah, the FIRST time this happened to me is a story I don’t tell. But in re: the last couple reddit posts, that’s so, so true. Once when I was a senior in college on a flight back to school this guy was talking with me the whole time. He was cute and I enjoyed talking with him, he gave me his number, I was intrigued. It got weird at the end when he asked me, while I was wearing my college sweatshirt & class ring on a flight into the city said college was in, ‘so, are you still in high school?’ No, no I am not. Did I call him? No, no I did not.

Ibis
5 years ago

Walking home from school at age 12. Guy in a car turns into a driveway, blocking the sidewalk in front of me and proceeds to strike up a conversation (I think it was something innocuous like directions or the weather or something) so I approach closer–just close enough that I see his pants down and he’s giving himself a good wank. When I told my mum later what had happened, she called the police to come and get a statement from me. I distinctly remember thinking that she was overreacting, that it was no big deal. I must have been so accustomed to being perved on by that point that I didn’t see it as that far out of the ordinary, though I don’t recall any specific prior incidents. Other than a hug at about the same age, maybe younger, with an adult male relative that went on a bit too long and involved an erection (I’m pretty sure that was unintentional and I never brought it up to anyone and there was no further questionable attention on his part).

because reasons
because reasons
5 years ago

@CL Aw, yes. That certain class of creepster who seems ok at first, even charming…then finally lets something slimy slip out and the red flag sensors go off. Ugh.

@LBT I can relate to the family reaction-thing. I never said a word to anyone about my abusive father until around 3-4 years ago. And I quickly went from being one of the “favorites” to the black sheep and was basically shunned by his side of the family. They all thought he was the Golden Boy and wouldn’t believe anything I said. Thankfully my mom stood by me (she already hated him for other reasons and the news of his years of abuse made her want to kill him). But it was freeing, in a way. I definitely found out who was really in my corner.

thephilosophicalprimate

Apparently someone doesn’t want this information being shared; your website is being reported as a problematic link at facebook, almost certainly due to false reporting.

LBT
LBT
5 years ago

RE: because reasons

Yeah, in our case, the grandfather was main perp, abused many people (including our mother) but everyone is still weirdly in his thrall, even now. We went from Golden Child to Black Sheep too, facilitated by us suddenly going “crazy” and therefore no longer being trustworthy. (Never mind that our crazy was A TRAUMA DISORDER.)

Bina
Bina
5 years ago

Aaaand I think now might be a good time to drop some Maru right here:

If it fits, Maru sits. And if it doesn’t fit, he’ll still try and try and TRY to sit.

And when he’s all tuckered out from the hard work of sitting in too small a box, he’ll just fall asleep on the couch like an old man…

Linax5
Linax5
5 years ago

so if flirting with a guy or dressing sexy gives him the right to do with me what he wants?

Like really?

Flirting is actually a heahlthy thing. If someone flirts with me I make sure I keep some respect…not creeping him around or follow him

Yep even if he has no shirt on. there is healthy flirting. and there is also molesting someone and creeping around, knowing that the other person isnt okay with that.

I feel sick that these girl have the need to say ”ohh but I wasnt flirting when he molested me”….oh come one as if flirting gives him an excuse to, intentionally, make you feel like shit