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Pickup guru Roosh V: End rape by making it legal

Roosh V: End rape by legalizing it
Roosh V: End rape by legalizing it

“Game” guru Roosh Valizadeh is tired of hearing that “men can stop rape.”

As far as he’s concerned, the problem isn’t men — who already know that rape is bad. No, it’s women.

Looking back on his own life, he wrote in a blog post yesterday (archived here),

I saw women wholly unconcerned with their own safety and the character of men they developed intimate relationships with. I saw women who voluntarily numbed themselves with alcohol and other drugs in social settings before letting the direction of the night’s wind determine who they would follow into a private room. I saw women who, once feeling awkward, sad, or guilty for a sexual encounter they didn’t fully remember, call upon an authority figure to resolve the problem by locking up her previous night’s lover in prison or ejecting him from school.

Evidently, in Roosh”s view, women are at fault when they enter a bedroom with the wrong man, but men aren’t at fault for being this wrong man. It’s a convenient argument for Roosh, who by all accounts including his own is one of these wrong men. Indeed, in his e-book Bang Iceland he admitted, rather nonchalantly, that he once raped a woman who was too drunk to consent.  As he described the events of that evening:

While walking to my place, I realized how drunk she was. In America, having sex with her would have been rape, since she legally couldn’t give her consent. It didn’t help matters that I was relatively sober, but I can’t say I cared or even hesitated. I won’t rationalize my actions, but having sex is what I do.

Now back to the rapist’s proposal to end rape:

By attempting to teach men not to rape, what we have actually done is teach women not to care about being raped, not to protect themselves from easily preventable acts, and not to take responsibility for their actions. At the same time, we don’t hesitate to blame men for bad things that happen to them (if right now you walked into a dangerous ghetto and got robbed, you would be called an idiot and no one would say “teach ghetto kids not to steal”).

I’m pretty sure that we already do teach “ghetto kids” — and non-“ghetto” kids — not to steal. And we put adults in prison for it.

It was obvious to me that the advice of our esteemed establishment writers and critics wasn’t stopping the problem, and since rape was already on the law books with severe penalties, additional laws or flyers posted on dormitory doors won’t stop this rape culture either.

Well, it didn’t stop Roosh. But it does stop others. While still horrifyingly common, rape rates have dropped considerably over the past several decades, helped by laws like VAWA and the sort of rape awareness campaigns that MRAs and other misogynists have always railed against.

But never mind, because Roosh has figured out what he thinks is a much better solution:

make rape legal if done on private property. I propose that we make the violent taking of a woman not punishable by law when done off public grounds.

What!?

While Roosh thinks that “those seedy and deranged men who randomly select their rape victims on alleys and jogging trails” should still be jailed, if only to keep them off the street, he argues that “on private property, any and all rape that happens should be completely legal.”So how would this, er, solution end rape?

If rape becomes legal under my proposal, a girl will protect her body in the same manner that she protects her purse and smartphone.

Apparently in Roosh’s imaginary world, women are more concerned about the well-being of their iPhones than their own bodily integrity.

If rape becomes legal, a girl will not enter an impaired state of mind where she can’t resist being dragged off to a bedroom with a man who she is unsure of—she’ll scream, yell, or kick at his attempt while bystanders are still around. If rape becomes legal, she will never be unchaperoned with a man she doesn’t want to sleep with.

I was going to ask “what if her ‘chaperone’ decides to rape her,” but there’s no point in trying to address any of Roosh’s argument here logically.

After several months of advertising this law throughout the land, rape would be virtually eliminated on the first day it is applied.

Uh, how?

Without daddy government to protect her, a girl would absolutely not enter a private room with a man she doesn’t know or trust unless she is absolutely sure she is ready to sleep with him. Consent is now achieved when she passes underneath the room’s door frame, because she knows that that man can legally do anything he wants to her when it comes to sex.

Roosh seems to think that rape only happens when drunk women invite strangers wearing “I HEART Raping Women” t-shirts into their apartments. In fact, as RAINN points out, only about a quarter of all rapists are strangers. Roughly 40% are friends or acquaintances; another 30% are in a relationship with the victim, and 7% are family members. In other words, most rapes are committed by people that the victim knows and trusts.

Bad encounters are sure to occur, but these can be learning experiences for the poorly trained woman so she can better identify in the future the type of good man who will treat her like the delicate flower that she believes she is. After only one such sour experience, she will actually want to get fully acquainted with a man for longer than two hours—perhaps even demanding to meet his parents—instead of letting a beer chug prevent her from making the correct decisions to protect her body.

I don’t even know what to say to this. It’s not just that Roosh seems almost inhuman in his utter lack of empathy. It’s that the women he has the most contempt for are the very women he targets as a “pickup artist,” women at bars who are open to the possibility of casual sex.

Because women will never enter a man’s apartment without accepting that sex will happen, he can escort her to his bedroom and romantically consummate a relationship after it was certain he proved himself to be a good and decent man the woman fully trusted.

Does Roosh actually think he comes even remotely close to being a good man who is worthy of any woman’s trust?

It turns out that we don’t need more laws, policies, and university propaganda that treat every man like a criminal and every woman like a mild retardate—we need more common sense that can only come from making rape legal.

Yes, dear reader, you did just read a sentence in which the idea of making rape legal is described as “common sense.”

Such a change will provide a mature jolt to American women who have been babied for too long, who are protected and coddled as if they have no agency or intellect of their own. If a woman is indeed a child then maybe we really need to keep promoting “rape culture” as a way to keep them safe, but if they are actual adults, which is often claimed, then we can start treating them like adults by allowing them to take responsibility for the things that happen to them which are easily preventable with barely a strain of cognitive thought, awareness, and self control.

Huh. Earlier, Roosh compared rape to property theft. If the two are analogous, why isn’t Roosh advocating that we get rid of the laws that make theft illegal. By Roosh’s logic, don’t laws against theft “coddle” property owners and deny them “agency and intellect?”

Let’s make rape legal. Less women will be raped because they won’t voluntarily drug themselves with booze and follow a strange man into a bedroom, and less men will be unfairly jailed for what was anything but a maniacal alley rape. Until then, this devastating rape culture will continue, and women who we treat as children will continue to act like children.

Roosh seems a little confused as to who is acting like a child here.

So is Roosh being facetious here? Is this just a Swiftian “Modest Proposal?”

Certainly, Roosh is being deliberately provocative — no doubt hoping to generate as many pageviews as possible from whatever controversy ensues.

And I’m fairly certain that he is not altogether serious about his proposal, which would effectively mean that no woman would ever go home with him or any of his readers ever again.

But I don’t see a Swiftian satire here.  Roosh’s “argument” here, such as it is, repeats “arguments” he’s made in earnest many times before. He may be taking these arguments to their logical extreme, but he doesn’t seem to be doing so in an attempt to refute them. He clearly doesn’t give a shit about actually preventing rape. His absurdist “proposal” seems mostly to be an excuse to express his contempt for feminists and his hatred of women in general.

Roosh’s fans, for the most part, don’t seem to see the post as satire. Some echo his contemptuous attacks on women.

atlantaOthers second his Men’s Rightsy attack on feminism as something that “infantalizes” women.

shangiA few bring up the name of Jonathan Swift.  LoftBoy thinks Roosh’s proposal is “rediculous” enough to be satire, but thinks it just might work.

loftBut the smartest take on the satire question comes from a commenter who is no fan of Roosh.

rabzee

 

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Nixy
Nixy
4 years ago

Can you please not use std stigmas, about hpv please, it’s anti feminist. Otherwise, thank you for writing this.

Sofia van der Linde
Sofia van der Linde
4 years ago

A lot of girls and young women only become severely drunk due to drinking culture. They are often pushed into this by peers and older men. Drinking culture overlaps with rape culture. On average, men tend to be able to consume more alcohol and keep their wits than women for the simply reason they have more blood to dilute it into.

If you refuse to consume alcohol or severely limit your intake you are considered a bore. If you do not keep track of your intake you risk being preyed upon. The game is inherently rigged against women; particularly young women and girls who have yet to build tolerance to both alcohol and peer pressure.

Mae
Mae
4 years ago

No, Pierre, this isn’t satire. Piss off.

S Lee
S Lee
4 years ago

Why should women change their behaviour because of how men want to harm them? Is he saying men aren’t able to control themselves?

King
King
4 years ago

This guru has troubles with his life due to one single reason: he does not know that the world is centered around women. All of the world’s operations have one sole purpose: serving and protecting their women. Women are the world’s treasures because of their fertility power. We cannot risk to lose any one of them, or the confidence of any one of them. If women want to dress like that or drink like that, you must let them be. If you can’t agree with the way the world’s women are like, simply go die. That’s your only choice. Our world can lose 90% of men without any real harm, and any men that don’t agree with others, we can simply solve that by letting him die. We cannot do that to women. That’s why you have to obey women’s wishes and let women be, because they make the choice, not you.

Concerned citizen
Concerned citizen
4 years ago

This man is a pathologic, narcissitic to the core. Women who are raped are traumatized. I might like to add that although we may be strong and completely capable of making conscious choices concerning men; we can be overpowered physically. That’s why its called victimization. Please, for a moment lets entertain this rapists ideology. I’d like to think, fair is fair, right? I noticed that he didnt address raping men. I proposd that we add to his new nderstanding and standards of what constitutes rape. That’s right, its high time we declare Open season for the random sodomy of men. We must distribute posters, flyers, and the like. We must rid society of its bias about sex with men.dispelled the stigma of a man satisfying his urges by raping a man’s butt instead of a woman’s vagina! We must demand equal rights for rapists. Sex with a man, hetero or homosexual relations is to be promoted- double time to even the score. Afterall, Boys will be boys, men will be men. I say let’s campaign for it, promote the cause, I mean dont you believe that men should enjoy being raped too?
I am grateful that there are very few twisted thinkers that spew this kind of bile. I am saddened that there could be even one person that would listen to this boy-man’s rhetoric.
When did society DE code to stop being concerned for the safety and wellness of all? In my opinion, his suggestions could be deemed hate speech to advocate crimes against women.

josh
josh
4 years ago

This is complete bullshit. It’s completely fine for a man to do any of those things but when a women does she’s inviting someone to take her? Women should be able to do what they want without being under the constant fear of being judged or harmed in any way.
It’s like suggesting “hey let’s legalise murder so people will start being careful as to what they do and who they hang out with”.

Abby
Abby
4 years ago

This could have SERIOUS consequences for women everywhere. Not only does this completely deny women the right to their own bodies, this law would say that if, let’s say, a Girl Scout came into your yard to sell cookies. The girl could be 17, (still an age to be a Girl Scout and old enough to not have any sex be considered statutory rape) this would mean that the SECOND she stepped into your yard, your “private property” you could jump on her and rape her and it would be completely legal. This dude thinks that all rape stems from women drinking and being too incapacitated to do anything to stop the man.

Sheila
Sheila
4 years ago

He is an asshole.

MS Harris
MS Harris
4 years ago

I am a 37 yr old man, I have been to many parties and have seen both sexes completely wasted and I have been completely wasted and can say I do know what I’m doing and any man who says they don’t is a liar and when they confront a woman who is messed up they know exactly what they are doing. So any excuses or lies you are trying to say or do out there is only going to get you in trouble.. because if my wife or daughter come and tell me that a man raped them then I’m going to blow a whole through them. Even if you try to get it passed to be legal or not on private property you still have to be an adult. if not an idiot. Because the things you say you’ve seen I have also and yes being a man I made sure that the women were not messed with. And the guys that were around me and the girl(s) acted like men and not like you and your immature friends. So like I said if you or any of your guy friends agree with what your saying and think its OK to do what they want when women are messed up then I’d advice you to watch your back. Because I have something that will say different and have no problem spending time for it.

Joanna K
Joanna K
4 years ago

Let’s make theft legal. It will encourage stores to lock up more carefully.

sisha
sisha
4 years ago

It’s rather pathetic the rooch has to get a woman drunk by whatever lies possible in order to get her to his place, then rape her to feel empowered. He must be so frightened of the opposite sex. Obviously not capable of a real relationship because of his absolute fear. Almost feel sorry for the little thing.

captain-murasa
captain-murasa
4 years ago

What a steaming pile of trash this motherfucker is. Yeah… “It’s all the woman’s fault for getting drunk. God forbid she has fun and gets drunk once in a while. It’s all he fault because she tempted me”… are you fucking serious? You just can’t take responsibility and control your own primitive instincts that you have to force someone to have sex with you? How mentally low can you get?

Why?? Why can’t women drink and at the same time be assured that no one will touch them? How is them being severely drunk an opportunity to take advantage of them when the majority of women just want to enjoy themselves without being threatened and scared for their lives. This is ridiculous. As women, we have full rights to our own bodies. We’re not owned by men. Leave us the fuck alone, fucking pigs!

Smarty
Smarty
4 years ago

Lets take out all the stop lights and stop signs. It will make people driver safer

Greg
Greg
4 years ago

Why not make killing sex offenders legal. So let me get this straight of this guys mother daughter sister wife or whoever he held dear he wouldn’t have a problem with someone raping them.

Hilary
Hilary
4 years ago

Who the hell do you think you are??! Well let’s see…we can reverse your logic and we’re out for drinks, you’re getting a little drunk and I, powerful female that I am, decide you made your bed, you asked for it! I take you home and have my way with you forcibly with a dildo, so you can feel the violation and see how vulnerable you are and hey, it’s ok, you were drunk and I’m entitled, because I AM WOMAN! YEAH!😤

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

Oh Hilary. Being opposed to men raping women who are too drunk consent does not actually mean we are for women raping men who are drunk to consent. Please point out where anyone here advocated for raping men.

And what’s with the drive by trolls with female names who are just happening to defend Roosh/attack David?

It’s not fooling anyone. We know it’s men who are Roosh fanboys.

Baruch
Baruch
4 years ago

First…the guy admits to raping a drunken woman and he clearly feels fine about it. Strike one. Strike two…rape is an act of commission, therefore it is the rapist who is at fault. He fails to see this. Strike three, Roosh exhibits all the signs of being a psychopath. He can justify anything, with charm even, with no empathy or conscience about how his actions might effect others.

This type of person should be considered a dangerous psychopath, who will prey upon women obviously, but is also aggrandizing himself among other men who have similar psychopathology or are just lost, the way any cult leader preys on their followers.

Men, following this guy will lead you down a path you don’t want to go down. Really.

Kimberly Brown
Kimberly Brown
4 years ago

He may be making a “modest proposal” (a book/story). I don’t agree with his suggestion to make rape legal on private property, but he has insight about issues men face. He does have compassion for men.

EJ (The Other One)
EJ (The Other One)
4 years ago

he has insight about issues men face.

Hi Kimberley, welcome to the site. Have you checked out our comments policy?

I’m a man, and I feel that Valizadeh hasn’t commented at all on any of the issues that I face, let alone had insight into them. (Unless you consider “help, my dick isn’t wet because nobody wants to sleep with me” an issue.)

Which specific male issues do you feel that Valizadeh has insight into?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
4 years ago

@ Kimberly

he has insight about issues men face. He does have compassion for men.

I would have to disagree.

One of the minor differences between Roosh and his mysogynist fellow travellers, such as MRAs, MGTOWs or Incels, is that he doesn’t even pretend that he’s trying to address the purported ‘men’s issues’ that the other groups use as cover.

His schtick is purely ‘Hey guys, here’s 10 things those fatcats in Washington won’t tell you about how to get laid!”

Bit even then he’s not doing for the men. He’s seen a group of naive and desperate schmucks he can exploit and he leeches off them.

He’s the classic snake-oil salesman.

Newt
Newt
4 years ago

Woah, Roosh being in the news really attracts the driveby necrotrolls.

@King:

All of the world’s operations have one sole purpose: serving and protecting their women.

Really? How do unrealistic beauty standards, sexual harassment, restricting birth control or denying education to women and girls achieve that?

Women are the world’s treasures because of their fertility power.

Did you know that a lot men are fertile, too?

We’re not living in some post-apocalyptic scifi setting. People of all genders are valued for more than just their ability to breed.

WeirwoodTreeHugger
WeirwoodTreeHugger
4 years ago

If this troll is going to take a female username, you’d think he’d at least try to pretend he’s really a woman.

Kimberly Brown
Kimberly Brown
4 years ago

@EJ
I read the comment policy. I don’t see anything that violates the policy.

We can probably agree he is immoral and doesn’t treat women well. Though this may not always be the way false rape accusations occur, he does undetstand it becoming an issue for boys and men. I believe it would be hard to relate to other men if it has never happended to you. It’s like explaining snow to someone who has never experienced before?

I knew a friend who made a false accusation of rape on a guy I knew. I did have a chance to talk to the guy at a later point in time. I regret I did not intervene at the time. Consider having your family, friends, and classmates shun you and/or kick you out of the house. A lawsuit or accusation could hurt your chance of having a good job for many years. Fearing any woman you get close to will make another false rape accusation.

I am merely empathizing.

@Alan Robertshaw

Feel free to disagree. I am not saying he isn’t a snake oil salesman.

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

We can probably agree he is immoral and doesn’t treat women well.

Doesn’t treat women well? That’s quite dismissive. Rape isn’t like not calling or texting when you say will. It’s a huge violation.

Though this may not always be the way false rape accusations occur, he does undetstand it becoming an issue for boys and men.

What false rape accusation? He admitted to rape.

It’s not a false accusation to call it rape when you don’t stop something when your partner asks you to. It’s not a false accusation to call it rape when the victim is too drunk to consent.

What makes you think it’s becoming an issue? There are no more false reports file for rape than there for any other crime. There’s no epidemic of innocent men jailed merely on the say so of a woman (yes, I’m aware it has happened, I’m saying there’s no spike in it recently nor is it an epidemic). The fact that in the US there are hundreds of thousands of untested rape kits sitting in storage should tell you that rape not investigated, let alone prosecuted is a much bigger issue than false accusations will ever be.

I think what meant to say is “uh oh, people are starting to treat rape that isn’t of the stranger jumping out of the bushes variety a tiny bit more seriously. This is becoming an issue for rapists.”

I believe it would be hard to relate to other men if it has never happended to you. It’s like explaining snow to someone who has never experienced before?

Maybe EJ hasn’t experienced tons of rape accusations because he isn’t a rapist. Just spit balling here.

I knew a friend who made a false accusation of rape on a guy I knew.

How do you know for sure it was false? People don’t like to think their friends could be rapists, but a rapist doesn’t wear a nametag. They can look like anyone and they can seem nice. See the link I dropped in the most recent post, as opposed to the thread you’ve necro’d. It nicely summarizes the research.

.

Consider having your family, friends, and classmates shun you and/or kick you out of the house. A lawsuit or accusation could hurt your chance of having a good job for many years. Fearing any woman you get close to will make another false rape accusation.

Consider having your family, friends, and classmates shun you by calling you a whore who was asking to be raped, calling you a liar, calling you damaged goods, harassing and bullying for “ruining” your rapist’s life. Imagine fearing any man you get close to will rape you. Because the former is the reality for so many women and girls. The latter is the reality for all women and girls. False rape accusations are the reality for a tiny minority of men.

I’m just empathizing here!

weirwoodtreehugger
4 years ago

It’s still cracking my shit up that “Kimberly” has taken a female nym but is not bothering, even a little to try and come across as a woman.

Kimberly Brown
Kimberly Brown
4 years ago

If this troll is going to take a female username, you’d think he’d at least try to pretend he’s really a woman.

If giving my opinion is being a troll, then under your standards I am a troll.

We can probably agree he is immoral and doesn’t treat women well. Doesn’t treat women well? That’s quite dismissive. Rape isn’t like not calling or texting when you say will. It’s a huge violation.

Let’s hang everyone who has ever been accused of a heinous crime. Regardless of whether the accused has said some or a lot of stupid stuff. *facepalm* Innocent before presumed guilty doesn’t exist evidently.

Though this may not always be the way false rape accusations occur, he does understand it becoming an issue for boys and men. What false rape accusation? He admitted to rape.

As I said in another post if you believe he is guilty, then go out and help to get him prosecuted. Otherwise, apparently your guilty of standing by and doing nothing, while a potential criminal is out there committing future rapes.

It’s not a false accusation to call it rape when you don’t stop something when your partner asks you to. It’s not a false accusation to call it rape when the victim is too drunk to consent.

I agee! It sounded like he was drinking to. So, he not she has more personal responsibility then her if she doesn’t say no or enthusiastically consents.

What makes you think it’s becoming an issue? There are no more false reports file for rape than there for any other crime. There’s no epidemic of innocent men jailed merely on the say so of a woman (yes, I’m aware it has happened, I’m saying there’s no spike in it recently nor is it an epidemic). The fact that in the US there are hundreds of thousands of untested rape kits sitting in storage should tell you that rape not investigated, let alone prosecuted is a much bigger issue than false accusations will ever be.

I was wrong. I should say I don’t know. A lot of the academic research on the topic is behind paywalls. I agree there should be something done about the hundreds of thousands of rape kits. But, I believe having a fair trial on rape cases is important.

I think what meant to say is “uh oh, people are starting to treat rape that isn’t of the stranger jumping out of the bushes variety a tiny bit more seriously. This is becoming an issue for rapists.”

I believe it would be hard to relate to other men if it has never happended to you. It’s like explaining snow to someone who has never experienced before?
Maybe EJ hasn’t experienced tons of rape accusations because he isn’t a rapist. Just spit balling here.

I knew a friend who made a false accusation of rape on a guy I knew.
How do you know for sure it was false? People don’t like to think their friends could be rapists, but a rapist doesn’t wear a nametag. They can look like anyone and they can seem nice. See the link I dropped in the most recent post, as opposed to the thread you’ve necro’d. It nicely summarizes the research.

.

Consider having your family, friends, and classmates shun you by calling you a whore who was asking to be raped, calling you a liar, calling you damaged goods, harassing and bullying for “ruining” your rapist’s life. Imagine fearing any man you get close to will rape you. Because the former is the reality for so many women and girls. The latter is the reality for all women and girls. False rape accusations are the reality for a tiny minority of men.

Fair enough the situation is terrible for both men and women. In what universe is the following statement a common view shared by the media or prevalent news source: “A whore who was asking to be raped”. It sounds like you are being dismissive of guys.

It’s still cracking my shit up that “Kimberly” has taken a female nym but is not bothering, even a little to try and come across as a woman.

Everyone has a handle.

Newt
Newt
4 years ago

But, I believe having a fair trial on rape cases is important.

Who here has claimed otherwise?

Note that a fair trial is a requirement before imposing a punishment. When someone confides in you that they’ve been raped, you don’t need to wait for the outcome of a trial to show some basic human sympathy.

Consider having your family, friends, and classmates shun you by calling
you a whore who was asking to be raped,

In what universe is the following statement a common view shared by the
media or prevalent news source
: “A whore who was asking to be raped”.

In what universe is the gossip of family, friends, and classmates the same as the reports of the media or prevalent news source?

dhag85
dhag85
4 years ago

I wonder if “Kimberly” felt like this really Had To Be Said.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
4 years ago

In what universe is the following statement a common view shared by the media or prevalent news source: “A whore who was asking to be raped”.

I was unaware that the Steubenville and Cosby cases happened in a different universe to ours.

dhag85
dhag85
4 years ago

I was unaware that the Steubenville and Cosby cases happened in a different universe to ours.

^^^^^^^^^^

Jenny
Jenny
4 years ago

Each one of can saveguard all the instances (Myself I counted so far well over 100)
when Daryush Roosh Valizadeh have described himself raping girls, and was teaching advices to his readers to do as well.

Daryush Roosh Valizadeh is not only a pro-rape-advocate
but an actual serial rapist, by every standard.

Like for example the original version of “When No Means Yes” by Roosh, when he describes how he forced 2 girls who were resisting,
and crying “No! No!” how he penetrated them anyway by holding them down with his muscles. Daily Mail caught that one.

Daryush Valizadeh himself describes and admits to:

– few actual rapes in Bang Iceland where he says that he went with the intention to “rape white girls”

– few rapes in Bang Poland, 2 rapes in “No Means Yes” original post (that, the same as many others, he edited and deleted partially, this way destroying evidences against him)

– few rapes in 30 Bangs,

– few rapes in Bang Ukraine, etc

I would not be surprised that Roosh actually has made more rape victims and rape survivors than Bill Cosby during his lifetime

Jenny
Jenny
4 years ago

@David

consider making also a new article about Roosh’s obsession with
being a serial killer, with mass shootings, building paramilitaries in Poland and in Eastern Europe, etc

People who know Roosh from real life say that he has no limits,
and considering his obsession with Hitler…

this is something that we readers would like to know more about:

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