Categories
$MONEY$ a voice for men antifeminism evil sexy ladies ha ha I tricked you infighting manginas men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny MRA paul elam post contains sarcasm

A Voice for Men publishes an article so extreme and hateful that it makes even Paul Elam gag

Emma Watson: The woman who nearly destroyed A Voice for Men
Emma Watson: The woman who nearly destroyed A Voice for Men

Yesterday, A Voice for Men published an article so extreme, so hateful, so beyond the pale, that even Paul Elam, the site’s founder, was taken aback by it. Elam, who said he hadn’t read the article before other editors on the site posted it, claimed in a comment that when he finally did read it, it made him literally sick to his stomach.

Today, he took the extraordinary step – for AVFM – of taking down the article and offering an apology for publishing a piece so “counter to every aspect of our mission and values.” (It’s still up, for the time being, in Google cache; the original can also be found here.)

So what did this terrible, terrible article say? Brace yourself.

It said that Emma Watson’s recent United Nations speech on feminism … made some good points.

While the author of the piece, a tech dude turned “dating expert” named Jeb Kinnison, took the standard MRA swipes at the alleged evils of third-wave feminism, he argued that Watson’s version of feminism represented a kind of “equity feminism which is equally concerned with men’s rights.”

Then he described Watson as “very, very smart, and wise beyond her years … .”

I know, I know. Horrifying.

But that wasn’t even the worst part of Kinnison’s piece. In his conclusion, he actually suggested that

The smart and civilized aren’t spending their time nursing grievances based on sex, gender, race, or religion. If only the most intelligent voices were as amplified as the voices of ignorance and hate promoted by the grievance-mongering misandrists of third-wave feminism as well as insecure male misogynists.

Yes, that’s right: An article in AVFM actually acknowledged that some of those in the Men’s Rights ranks might actually be – gasp! – misogynists.

Naturally, such heresy could not stand. In the comments, a fight broke out between those who hated the article, and those who also hated it but felt that criticizing AVFM about anything was terrible and counterproductive and, hey, remember to donate to AVFM during the Fall Fundraiser!

In the former camp, the most outspoken critic was Nick Reading of Men’s Rights Edmonton, posting under the alias Eric Tiberius Duckman, who bluntly warned that

This article is disgraceful. If uncle Jeb here imparts any more of his mangina wisdom on AVFM, I’ll be seriously considering pulling my support and encouraging others to do likewise.

Elam was having none of this – very poor taste, especially during AVFM’s Fall Fundraiser! He responded to Reading’s threats to take his ball and go home with an indignant comment defending the editors who ran Kinnison’s piece and tearing into prodigal Nick:

[O]ur editors did their job and I am 100% supportive of that.

To be even more frank, even less appealing to me than this article is tantrums and ultimatums from readers attempting to exert editorial control by threatening to leave if they see content they don’t like.

Then apparently Elam decided that he didn’t support the editors 100% after all. In another comment, he declared that

This is the most overly generous, myopic interpretation of Watson’s speech I have seen, including feminist websites. It is literally embarrassing in its reductionist dismissal of issues unique to men and boys. …

I could write an entire article on what is wrong with this piece, but I am just too busy right now.

Throwing up.

Once he finished up with this, he took the piece down.

And AVFM’s Fall Fundraiser was saved!

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

233 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
katz
6 years ago

Eric Tiberius Duckman

Eric Tiberius Duckman

Eric Tiberius Duckman

That’s the sort of name Charles Dickens would give a villain if he were alive today.

Anarchonist
Anarchonist
6 years ago

@Jeb Kinnison: Please, dude, just stop trying to draw a comparison between MRAs and feminists. This blog deals with extreme expressions of misogyny, a considerable lot of them originating from AVFM. There is no similar blog dealing with alleged misandry, because

a) you’d be hard-pressed to find feminists making as terrible claims as MRAs do (unless you interpret things in ludicrous conspiracy ways, or in pointless fundie terms such as “destroying traditional values” etc.), and

b) misandry is not actually a thing that’s happening. Women calling men out on privileged bullshit is in no way equivalent to the very real issue of institutional misogyny that affects social, economical and political aspects of society and puts women at a disadvantage.

———————————-

Thanks, bunnybunny, for posting that link. I felt there was something off about several of the points Watson brought up, and this post highlights them in a way I could not pinpoint. Most importantly: this is not about men. I can attest that nobody becomes an ally because they’re primarily interested in how a certain injustice affects them personally. Such an ally would not be a very good ally to have. It doesn’t really work that way.

I mean, I get Watson’s point – that gender issues are a problem that men need to acknowledge as well – but there are more than a few problematic points in the speech. Personally, I side-eyed the claim that “[m]en don’t have the benefit of equality, either”, since that paints an awfully equal picture of society, something that is plainly untrue. If men didn’t benefit from gender inequality, there would be little reason for it to exist.

Don’t get me wrong, Watson’s awesome, but seriously now. Men aren’t going to go to pieces if you point out that they’re the primary benefactors of a patriarchal system. The ones who start whining about “man-hating feminazis” are not the ones you’d like to have in your company in the first place.

————————————

Oh, and count me in with the people who fell for David’s well-planned surprise twist. For a fleeting, hopeful moment, I imagined Paul “fucking their shit up gives me an erection and also they’re damn near demanding to be raped” Elam being disgusted by misogyny of some nigh-eldritch proportions.

Shows what I know.

Shut up, Woody.

Shaun DarthBatman Day
6 years ago

@ Tabby

*waves from the North side*
I actually moved out of Duckman’s riding this spring.

Heretic
6 years ago

Heh…not that I am for “equity feminism” but I took the original article as a good sign; maybe AVFM is being infiltrated by moderates? One can dream.

Cassie's Major Domo
Cassie's Major Domo
6 years ago

Quoth the Eternal Leader of AVfM:

To be even more frank, even less appealing to me than this article is tantrums and ultimatums from readers attempting to exert editorial control by threatening to leave if they see content they don’t like.

Gee, Paul, that “threatening to leave” business, that’s almost like a… boycott! You know, a move that many activists take when they are doing activism. I know that you have no idea what that looks like, and of course you wouldn’t expect it from your own flock, and they are being activist about your awful website, but this is still more activist than anything you do, which is to write misogynist rants and take people’s money.

Shaun DarthBatman Day
6 years ago

“Altch: your condescension is duly noted. The microaggressive term “dear” is especially precious.”

Says the dudebro who unapologetically misspells a name…
Anyway, since we have a real life MRA,I am going to let y’all in on my daily act of misandry. Random white dude on Twitter told me I’m not a real feminist, so I’m going bra shopping without a flamethrower. Also, when he started whining about how all his exes “falsely” charged him with rape, I blocked him. Blocking dudebros on Twitter is MISANDRY!

Emmy Rae
Emmy Rae
6 years ago

I assume “all of my exes falsely accused me of rape” = “I am a rapist”.

If you keep doing this well with your daily acts of misandry, the FemBorg will up your quota.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

David, you raised my hopes of Elam meeting some of the garbage his folks spew and having a massive epiphany of epic proportions…

… and then such disappointment mixed with “I really should have guessed”.

AVFM, you know why moderates don’t agree with you? Hint: maybe because of these shenanigans.

Shaun DarthBatman Day
6 years ago

Emmy, so do I.

And, does tweeting #feministfacts count? Because if it does I’m meeting it.

Alex
6 years ago

I…for a good few seconds I had hope that there was something Paul Elam found too hateful and violent. Now I’m kind of sad. 🙁

Shut up, Woody.

strivingally
6 years ago

Jeb: you’re so close to an epiphany, dude. Soooooo close.

In a way Elam’s a victim of circumstance (I use the word victim here very loosely) – he’s made his entire career out of being the most woman-hating of the woman-haters, and the fact his commentariat keeps catching up to him forces him to get steadily worse and worse to remain the top dog.

The fact that someone can’t even point out that there are woman-haters on the anti-feminist side without being vilified at AVfM pretty much proves what we’ve been saying about ’em all along – they’re willing to sacrifice pretty much any other principle if it means they can blame a woman for something, and they indulge in exact the echo-chamber ideological purging they accuse feminists of.

Hey, remember that brief, amusing two weeks earlier this year when Paul Elam tried to rein in the worst of his followers’ behaviours because they’d be getting press attention surrounding the conference? It’s pretty telling that even the blandest, even-handed coverage was lambasted by Elam for its supposed anti-man bias, and that’s when the media awas seeing AVfM on its best behaviour.

vaiyt
6 years ago

I understand the tone of Watson’s speech. She’s trying to reach out to the uncooperative, and it’s hard to not make even the tiniest bit of compromise just for the hope that your message will get through.

Little Blue Dress
6 years ago

Speaking of cookies… There’s a Reddit story about how a “feminist” parent supposedly baked vagina cookies for *2nd graders* and then flipped out on the teacher for not serving them. I’m calling bullshit. It’s so ridiculous. What’s sad is that the story is making rounds as if it really happened. http://www.donotlink.com/bsw1

Shaun DarthBatman Day
6 years ago

Totally true, I saw it on “Death to Smoochy”.

No…wait…those were penis cookies.

justabrowngirl
6 years ago

Well, in Whineville they say – that the Elam’s small heart grew three sizes that day… And then it deflated and turned once again into an empty dark hole.

You had me for minute there, David.

chaltab
chaltab
6 years ago

I’m just taken aback at Elam feeling the need to *apologize* for mealy-mouthed article that offers women some bare-minimum human decency while still disingeniiously blaming feminsts for the woes of men. I mean, if anyone should be apologizing it’s Jeb for talking out of both sides of his mouth, but Elam’s reaction is just astonishing. “I’m sorry we published an article by someone who doesn’t hate women enough. We here at A Voice For Monsters Men strive to only bring you the most hateful sexist screeds on the internet.”

Ledasmom
Ledasmom
6 years ago

Women haven’t given men a formal invitation, so they haven’t joined in.

I swear I saw recently in “Cosmopolitan” (I was in a waiting room at the time) the sex advice “Send his penis a formal invitation,” and since then that is all I can think of when I see “formal invitation”. I do not know how one would address such a thing: “Mr. Happy, North Pants, Denver”, nor do I know how a penis would open it – paper cuts! Apart from these quibbles I am sure this advice is as good and reliable as everything else in “Cosmo”.

cloudiah
6 years ago

I’m hit-and-run posting today, so sorry if this is too off topic even for this place, but it seems important to announce to you all that FEMINISM IS OVER. It has been utterly destroyed. This has been the engine of its destruction.

It has been nice knowing you all, but I think we all know when we’ve been beaten. Who knew that all it took to annihilate us was a bunch of images, unsupported assertions, and URLs? None of those was enough on its own, but if you combine them into one big rancid tumblr post (using the feminazis’ own SJW weapon against them!) it is overpowering.

Feeeeemales, hand over your bon bons. Manginas, hand over your … sex that you’re not getting from the feeeemales.

It’s over.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

They won’t get my bonbons.

seasnakes
6 years ago

Even if we take the whole “there are feminist/social-justice groups who will instantly eject anyone at the first sign of a heretical thought!” thing at face value, I’ve never understood how “sometimes, some groups of people can be a bit mean and circlejerky” logically leads to the conclusion “therefore, any political beliefs they hold are obviously false”. If I take, idk, a class on string theory and the teacher is kind of an asshole, does that mean the whole concept of string theory is wrong and false and bad?

@Jeb: that’s not what ‘microaggression’ means. You may be thinking of condescension, or passive-aggression.

cloudiah
6 years ago

SURRENDER YOUR BON BONS! THEY’VE FOUND THIS IMAGE:
comment image

cloudiah
6 years ago

AND THIS PROVES SOMETHING TOO!
comment image

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

That was really sad.

They’re still not getting my bonbons.

cloudiah
6 years ago

AND THIS THING WAS MADE UP BY 4CHAN BUT STILL PROVES SOMETHING ABOUT FEMINISM BECAUSE REASONS:

http://ectoplasmrainbow.tumblr.com/post/88669763984/colorsofsocialjustice-rtrixie-d1reese

cloudiah
6 years ago

AND FINALLY … THIS:
comment image

cloudiah
6 years ago

And the reviews are in!

“This is insanely good. It’s a long read but it’s totally worth it, i think it’s the best thing i ever read about feminism. I’m going to keep this one and share it as much as i can, because it’s well written, and it never goes into “free violence/free bashing” ; it always explain WHY, and it goes in the details. Thanks a lot for sharing this one!”

~BurritHawk

“I hope this becomes one of the sub’s top posts. More people should read this and see through the bullshit.”

~ProcrastinHater

“I cried reading this. Well done.”

~theclassicneil

“A single tear rolls down my cheek as I finish reading it, it was just so damn beautiful.”

~popwobbles

Seriously, I can’t tell if they were just masterfully trolled

katz
6 years ago

“A single tear rolls down my cheek as I finish reading it, it was just so damn beautiful.”

comment image

seasnakes
6 years ago

@cloudiah It, uh… proves that stupidstagram is probably more into girls than boys? Lesbians existing = misandry?

… what am I saying, not having sex with men is ALWAYS misandry. As is having sex with lots of men. Or having sex with some men and not others. Misandry everywhere.

Shaun DarthBatman Day
6 years ago

I’d like to update my daily act of TMI misandry…today I had no sex.

cloudiah
6 years ago

my daily act of TMI misandry

That should be a tumblr

Shaun DarthBatman Day
6 years ago

My 5 year old has started the daily act of misandry…she now counts male vs female characters in her TV shows (more male characters than female in Dora, for example) and movies. Since we’re now on my favourite topic, the daily act of misandry.

cloudiah
6 years ago

Someone just posted this dramatization of the response to that feminism-ending piece on r/amr:

MIDDAY, INTERIOR: FEMINISM WORLD HEADQUARTERS

We open on a dolly shot of BRIAN, a harried, unpaid beta-male
intern rushing down a dimly lit eco-friendly hallway. His arms are full
of a large wad of green and white dot-matrix printouts. The paper is
new-old-stock from a local carbon-neutral vintage paper store. Some
pages fall away as he runs.

After turning a corner and kowtowing to his female superior, he bursts
into a WORLD DOMINATION WARROOM.

BRIAN
It’s over. We’re finished.

A misandrously tall woman with fiendishly short hair is standing over
the center table. She turns to BRIAN as he enters. To the two women
seated at the table she smirks and says

ANDREA
Men.

All laugh, except BRIAN who is exasperatedly submissive.

BRIAN
They have finally done it. They’ve produced a counterargument so
airtight that we will never recover from it.

The women look at each other nervously. BRIAN unspools the paper wad
onto the table, flattening it with his feminine hands. He is not
allowed to lift, not even military press. SWOLE is forbidden here.

All scan the sheets, mumbling as they read. A woman in suit blurts out

LUCY
Oh my god.

ANDREA
LUCY, we’ve seen this innuendo and specious reasoning before. Look,
they even have that 4chan thing with the #EndFathersDay stuff.

LUCY points to a page below. ANDREA scans down one page and a
horrified look twists her face. She sees

ANDREA
JPEGs. They have JPEGs. And some have sentences underlined with
red MS paint lines.

ALL WORRIEDLY MURMURING

ANDREA depresses a button on her necklace. The lights dim and go red as a
klaxon sounds. A mass evacuation is initiated, many are killed fleeing
the as the self-destruction fire takes hold of the building.

DUSK, EXTERIOR: ANDREA, LUCY and the others are gathered on a
windswept hill overlooking the burning wreckage of the headquarters.

ANDREA
We feared this day, but have prepared for it.

She dons sunglasses.

ANDREA
Activate the embedded assets.

She shoulders a battle-worn AK-47.

ANDREA
The Gender Wars have begun.

CUT TO BLACK

HEAVY METAL MUSIC SWELLS

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

samantha:

all we were going to talk about were MEN and place curses on MEN and how we all wanted their boy-parts to shrivel up

How tempting it would be to say, “Carry on like that, fella, and that’s exactly what we’ll do to you.

Shaun DarthBatman Day
6 years ago

The Female:Male character ratio is misandrist.

Well done!

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: cloudiah

What’s so frustrating about the ‘not oppressive’ argument is that… well, I’ve NEVER said I find street harassment oppressive. I find it frightening and go to elaborate lengths to avoid and defend myself against it (including Kid’s recent Goon Spray), and it’s harmful to me.

Shouldn’t that be enough? If large segments of the population are getting harassed on the street because of their demographics, shouldn’t we be CONCERNED?

But what do I know, obviously one Internet macro totally trumps my argument.

wordsp1nner
wordsp1nner
6 years ago

I think my favorite bit of the Giant List of Misandry is the Marilyn French “All Men are rapists” quote, for the usual reasons and because he cites it as “Marilyn French, Authoress”. Because clearly women can’t just be authors. That is only for men.

Also, here is a Giant List of Misogyny from r/TheRedPill I linked earlier, for comparison:

http://www.np.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2hca1j/lots_of_quotes_about_women_to_prevent_relapses/

katz
6 years ago

Also, the way they’ve laid out NotAllWomen makes it look like NoTallWomen.

…I’m making this into a Twitter hashtag. (Not sure if tweets embed.)

http://twitter.com/gwenckatz/status/515670681330003968

http://twitter.com/gwenckatz/status/515670741799280640

http://twitter.com/gwenckatz/status/515670950218452993

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

That Jeb dude said:

One point to remember: the mistreatment of individual women is close to a non-problem in the highly-educated, wealthy precincts of the Anglosphere, where third-wave feminists now have to fudge statistics about rape and equal pay to justify an ever-more-intrusive sex-based HR bureaucracy.

Fudged?

CDC population samples based on 5000 participants…fudged?
DoJ stats that include upwards of 17K cases…fudged?

That is a goddamn large population sample as sociological studies go. That is government research out of federal agencies which, despite your tinfoil hat theories, have not been taken over by the Feminist Cabal.
The numbers are probably pretty damned close to accurate.

THIS is PRECISELY why I can’t engage with MRA’s, even though I think men DO have serious issues that DO need addressed…like depression and isolation.

You can have opinions, but the thing is, you DO NOT GET TO HAVE YOUR OWN EFFING FACTS.
MRA’s literally have their own facts. When you make a reality that doesn’t correspond to what both experience and data show me, I’m not going to climb in.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

Aw, crap, I fed the blockquote mammoth…

Shaun DarthBatman Day
6 years ago

blahlistic, that just makes it harder to hunt, right?

thebewilderness
thebewilderness
6 years ago

Street harassment is very oppressive in some communities. Many women do not dare leave their homes unescorted for fear of assault. Here in the US we drive more htan should be necessary because of street harassment.

BritterSweet
6 years ago

You got me too, David. For a moment I thought that 1.) Elam seemed to have a little bit of human decency after all, and 2.) This was going to be something once-thought-IMPOSSIBLY horrible. I even had brain bleach ready for it.

But alas.

Oh well, I still want to share the brain bleach anyway. Here.

samantha
6 years ago
Reply to  cloudiah

Who knew that all it took to annihilate us was a bunch of images, unsupported assertions, and URLs? None of those was enough on its own, but if you combine them into one big rancid tumblr post (using the feminazis’ own SJW weapon against them!) it is overpowering.

Ahh, cloudiah. I should have known for the past fifty-odd years that we feeeemales and our puny little feeeemale minds were just too weak, and we are just too pointless, to win…NOT!

I read the below on the reddit you linked to:

[–]EminentHorizon 4 points 3 hours ago

Seriously. This is perfect for the sidebar and for anyone new to the site looking to see why there are other women pushing against the feminist wave.

permalink
parent

I love the image. People who push against waves tend to, you know, drown.

samantha
6 years ago

How tempting it would be to say, “Carry on like that, fella, and that’s exactly what we’ll do to you.“

I know, right? At the time, though, I had a hard time just keeping a straight face. After he left, I did laugh myself sick. When I told Z about it, she laughed and waved her hands in the air, saying a few booga-booga’s.

BTW – he did call the following week and try to explain to me why he was right in feeling the way he did. He did, however, feel that he had yelled a bit too much.

On the serious side, it did make me think about how frightened so many men really are by women, especially women who get together…without a man to keep us in line…

kittehserf
6 years ago

Samantha – goes back to the old thing, doesn’t it: they’re afraid we’ll treat them the way they treat us.

vaiyt
6 years ago

the mistreatment of individual women is close to a non-problem in the highly-educated, wealthy precincts of the Anglosphere

“Do you want some veiled racism to go with this denial?”

samantha
6 years ago
Reply to  kittehserf

Samantha – goes back to the old thing, doesn’t it: they’re afraid we’ll treat them the way they treat us.

Well said, kittehserf. Of course, it does beg the question – why do they not treat us the way they would like us to treat them? Their fear would then be gone.

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

Ledasmom: I do not know how one would address such a thing: “Mr. Happy, North Pants, Denver”, nor do I know how a penis would open it

Some men are gifted in the trouser department, some are very gifted, and then there’s the very few of us that are down right prehensile…

But we don’t like to brag.