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Frats are under seige by drunken women, warns overgrown, overtan frat man on Forbes.com

Frat boys know how to handle their liquor
Frat boys know how to handle their liquor

 

We learned earlier today that evil females are trying to destroy one of the few remaining safe spaces for men in our culture – professional football. Now we learn that evil drunk females have their blurry sights set on another man space: College fraternities.

The brave soul bringing this crucial information to the men of the world? The impressively tan frat man Bill Frezza, who presented his case in a post on Forbes.com with the subtle title

Drunk Female Guests Are The Gravest Threat To Fraternities

Alas, the Femborg Collective must have caught wind of this little breach in security. The piece was quickly taken down, and Frezza was relieved of his duties as a contributor to Forbes. (You can still see the Google cache version here though.)

So what did brother Frezza argue? Basically, that drunken women are actively infiltrating American frats – and threatening to bring them down by being drunk and female. While frat brothers are carefully policed by well-meaning elders like Frezza – the head of the alumni house corporation for his MIT fraternity – the ladies are uncontrolled and uncontrollable:

Fraternity alumni boards, working with chapter officers, employ a variety of policies designed to guide and police member behavior. Our own risk management manual exceeds 22 pages. The number of rules and procedures that have to be followed to run a party nowadays would astound anyone over 40. We take the rules very seriously, so much so that brothers who flout these policies can, and will, be asked to move out. But we have very little control over women who walk in the door carrying enough pre-gaming booze in their bellies to render them unconscious before the night is through.

(Emphasis mine.)

Damn those drunk gals, all liquored-up on booze that our frat brothers didn’t provide, honest, come on we all know those bitches were drunk when they got here right fellas let’s keep our goddamn stories straight.

Yes, boozed up males also show up at parties, sometimes mobs of them disturbing the peace on the front steps. But few are allowed in, especially if they are strangers. … [I]t is … irresponsible women that the brothers must be trained to identify and protect against, because all it takes is one to bring an entire fraternity system down.

So how exactly do these terrible gals do their damage? A variety of devious ways.

Alcohol poisoning due to overconsumption before, during, or after an event. Death or grievous injury as a result of falling down the stairs or off a balcony. Death or grievous injury as a result of a pedestrian or traffic accident as the young lady weaves her way home.

That’s right. Some of these gals are apparently willing to give up their own lives in order to make frats look bad.

Oh, but some use an even more devious weapon:

False accusation of rape months after the fact triggered by regrets over a drunken hook-up, or anger over a failed relationship. And false 911 calls accusing our members of gang rape during a party in progress.

It’s gotten so bad that Frezza feels compelled to tell young frat brothers that maybe it’s not such a good idea to have sex with drunken women, or even to bring them to your room for a game of Jenga.

Never, ever take a drunk female guest to your bedroom – even if you have a signed contract indicating sexual consent. Based on new standards being promulgated on campus, all consent is null and void the minute a woman becomes intoxicated – even if she is your fiancée.

The solution? Lower the drinking age to 18. That’ll show ’em!

No, really.

Unless and until the drinking age is reduced to 18, students relearn how to pace themselves while drinking, and individuals are held responsible for the consequences of their own behavior, rather than blaming the institutions that house and educate them, the only defense is extreme vigilance.

This is how you can tell that Frezza really did go to MIT. Because this is STEM logic at its finest.

Oh, I noticed this at the end of his piece:

Bill Frezza is the President of The Beta Foundation, the house corporation for the Chi Phi fraternity at MIT.

Ha ha, what a beta. He’s so beta he’s the president of Betas.

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katz
6 years ago

Adrian: Why, why, why couldn’t you get to “that being said” and then go “Do I really need to say this next part?”

cloudiah
6 years ago

Men can be raped by women, Adrian. WTF?

Puddleglum
6 years ago

@cloudiah, Adrian is here to tell us what ‘real’ rape is, and what’s not, bless zir heart…

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Adrian acts like there’s an epidemic of people who consented while kind of drunk turning around and calling it rape, reporting it and that resulting in a conviction. Bullshit
.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

@Adrian:

A few years ago it occurred to me that only men could commit rape (please don’t throw some viagra or using tools scenario at me here) and when I realized that only men could do it and I thought about that fact it seemed to me that it was at the core of inequality between men and women and it disgusted me.

Get the fuck out of here. This statement makes you more retrograde than current rape law, that’s how bad it is.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

@Adrian:

Given how precedent works in the legal system and how lawyers are able to manipulate it I think it’s a bad idea for the idea that you aren’t responsible for your words when drunk to make it into the system.

Nobody is arguing that. What the hell do you even mean by “not responsible for your words?” When are “words” relevant to the issue of rape? If you’re talking about consent, consent is not simply words. Consent is a mental state communicated by words, and drunkenness impairs that mental state to the point where you can’t safely trust the words.

Someone could write an essay on all the rape myths you buy into, all the memes you repeat, and all the basics you get wrong.

kirbywarp
kirbywarp
6 years ago

(please don’t throw some viagra or using tools scenario at me here)

Consider it thrown, if you haven’t been banned yet. How is that scenario not rape, exactly?

cloudiah
6 years ago

I’ve reported Adrian to mods/David

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Behold, an MRA flatly denying and ignoring men and boys who get raped.

Adrian, step on all the broken Legos. Or, bathe in skunk musk: it might make you less repellant.

Harlan
Harlan
6 years ago

Alcohol is *so* problematic. It impairs judgment. While intoxicated, I’ve done things I otherwise wouldn’t have done—-including sexual acts.

And I’ve had sex while drunk with drunk partners…great, wild, Bacchanalian romps, with no regrets on behalf of either party.

I’ve also been pressured—harassed, actually—-to engage in sex while drunk, and said “No” (and had problems getting that “No” accepted at face value).

I’ve also been sexually victimized…as a teen, by an older individual who had gotten me drunk.

There is a line that cleaves. On one side is “Omg, I *really* wish I hadn’t done *that*”…and on the other is sexual assault or rape. I think it’s entirely possible that it can be difficult to know exactly where to draw that line before one reaches a certain level of maturity and experience. Speaking from my own experience as a victim, I know *intellectually* that I wasn’t capable of *real* consent—besides being impaired, I was below the legal age of consent. I also know that I was young and horny and *aching* to have sex with someone besides myself…so much so that it’s possible to parse the incident so that *I* could appear to have been the instigator. But the perpetrator, being older and more experienced, knew the situation and took advantage of my youth and my hormones and my drunken state. Even now, decades later, I have to underscore those facts to remind myself that I was not the one at fault.

One must trust one’s judgment, and the agency of one’s (potential) partner.

If one is not in a position to do that, one should keep one’s pants on and one’s junk to one’s self.

xXX360noscopeXXx
xXX360noscopeXXx
6 years ago

The whole needing to lower the drinking argument is actualy pretty valid. The core problem is that pretty much all these parties feature underaged drinking which puts them outside the law and thus makes it harder to control other issues. If you have a bunch of underaged drinkers you can hardly hire say a couple of “security” people to make sure that people don’t climb on the roof and fall off or disappear off into rooms together if one of the parties is clearly in no state to do so.

Woody
Woody
6 years ago

My impression was that this blog was supposed to be about “misogyny” in society.

If the post was pulled immediately and the man was fired, how is this “misogyny”? It’s evidence against it.

Woody
Woody
6 years ago

Why was I put back on moderation?

leftwingfox
6 years ago

xXX360noscopeXXx: I don’t get that argument at all; if the problem is with underage drinkers, why not go the other way and not serve alcohol at all?

xXX360noscopeXXx
xXX360noscopeXXx
6 years ago

Serve alcohol? I hope (given how libel laws work) you aren’t suggesting that a frat house would serve alcohol to under-aged drinkers. That would be highly illegal and frat houses have been dragged through the courts often enough that they aren’t for the most part going to do something that stupid. Of course a certain amount of alcohol may find its way onto the premises and be consumed by under-aged drinkers but it certainly wasn’t served by what passes for the fraternity authorities.

As for why fraternities don’t stop that its because 18 year olds want to drink and fraternities want to have members.

Cassie's Major Domo
Cassie's Major Domo
6 years ago

If the post was pulled immediately and the man was fired, how is this “misogyny”? It’s evidence against it.

Except the part, where, you know, the whole post was massively misogynistic.

Enjoy the Hoary Netherworld of moderation, you nitwit.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

The collective drinking age was upped to 21 in the US because the USA became a very car-centric culture. Studies seem to show that a drinking age of 18 meant even MORE drunk drivers.
I’m not sure it’s fair.

Woody has MRX-Ray glasses on. They screen out all evidence of misogyny.

drst
drst
6 years ago

@leftwingfox – the argument for lowering the drinking age is that if it was legal for all students at a college to drink, they could go to bars or other public venues where there are people keeping an eye on how much they’ve consumed because of liability, etc. Because it’s illegal, you get a lot more “house parties” and lots more dodgy behavior by underaged people on campuses trying to drink and keep it hidden so nobody gets into legal trouble, which leads to a lack of supervision and more abuse of alcohol. It’s similar to the argument for legalizing other drugs.

And bullfuckingshit frats don’t give alcohol to underaged guests. They know they’re not supposed to and it happens anyway.

I would point out to Adrian if he’s still lurking that if you convince someone who is drunk to sign a contract, the law already states that the contract can be nullified because the drunk person was incapacitated, especially if the other person was not drunk. So this idea that the law would have to be changed is also bullshit. You are responsible for your own actions when drunk, but that doesn’t make it okay for another person to prey on your incapacitation. (Drunk drivers are not being preyed upon, before any other trolls bring that up.)

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: Adrian

A few years ago it occurred to me that only men could commit rape

You’re wrong.

(please don’t throw some viagra or using tools scenario at me here)

Why not?

rape is the worst crime because it is the only one that is a one way street.

No, you’re wrong. You’re flat out wrong. I know men who have been raped by women. You’re wrong. Offensively wrong. Horrifically wrong. You’re so wrong, I can’t even begin to tackle the level of wrong. I’m a male rape survivor, and you are wrong wrong wrong WRONG.

I’m sorry if I offended you in any way.

I’m sorry you believe such horseshit.

First of all: women can have penises. Second of all: even a woman does NOT have a penis, she can still rape someone. If I shove my fist up a guy’s ass without his consent, my gender is irrelevant: it is rape. If I force him to perform sexual acts upon me, that is rape. There are PLENTY of sexual acts that require no penis.

Jesus Christ, I know men who were raped by their fucking mothers as children, and you have the GALL to come here and tell me what rape is when you admit you haven’t spoken to survivors on the subject? You have the chutzpah to come here and tell ME, a rape survivor, what rape is, and who can and can not perpetrate it?

Get out.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

One of the nastiest myths about rape is that arousal during rape means the victim wanted it. Absolutely not so.
Arousal and orgasm can happen to the victim against the victim’s will. (cisgender) Men can be forced to penetrate against their will.
The assailant may deliberately do this.

Even more triggers in the article:
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2013-05/science-arousal-during-rape

cloudiah
6 years ago

Adrian is terrible. Brain bleach for anyone who needs it:

kittehserf - MOD
kittehserf - MOD
6 years ago

PSA: when someone’s trolling or being terrible, folks, contact the mods and David. There’s no guarantee we’ll see requests for modding/banning in general thread comments. Don’t hesitate to use the Great Big Kitty Head, or worry that something’s too minor, or that someone else will have done it. Speak up! This is why David went with having moderators in the first place.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

Also, can’t believe I’m having to say this AGAIN but here is how it works.

If you are shoving drinks down someone’s throat because you know they won’t fuck you sober, you are being a douche, regardless of how many drinks you consume.

If you take advantage of someone’s drunk state, you are being a douche, regardless of how many drinks you consume.

If you are not sure if someone will fuck you sober because the first time it comes up is when they’re drunk, you probably should not have sex with them.

This isn’t fucking rocket science, guys. It’s not like someone drinks one drop of alcohol and magically becomes another species. People can have consensual drunk sex; they do all the time. The key is not to take advantage of them.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
6 years ago

False accusation of rape months after the fact triggered by regrets

Months after the fact? This is some “women are permanently affected by sex” bullshit – we’re such delicate little flowers that months later we’re still stewing about it and feeling the need to blame someone else?

Never, ever take a drunk female guest to your bedroom

He gets so close to the actual problem here: indeed, telling men not to rape, or do things that might be rape, is a fantastic idea! Now if only he could muster some concern for the victims instead of the poor, persecuted perpetrators.

Seriously, of all the things to try to blame on women, he picks frat party rape? This is a thing so widely understood to be dangerous to women that even the mainstream acknowledges it.

Maybe he has a point with the lowering the drinking age? 21 seems so arbitrary, what else legally changes at 21?

<a href="http://mentalfloss.com/article/19437/why-drinking-age-21"Apparently 21 used to be the voting age as well, but when the Vietnam draft included men as young as 18, people got pissed that you could be shipped off to war and die overseas before you could vote, so the voting age was lowered to match the drafting age. They tried lowering the drinking age as well, but a sudden uptick in drunk driving fatalities put the kibosh on that. While technically each state can set the drinking age wherever they want, any state that sets it younger than 21 loses out on that sweet, sweet federal highway money (and also, driving across state lines to drink was part of what caused the aforementioned fatalities).

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Blahlistic,

I love MRA-X ray glasses and totally stealing it if you don’t mind.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
6 years ago

One of the rapists who has convinced himself he wasn’t one because our culture likes to say it doesn’t count as rape if she was drunk/wearing revealing clothes/had previously consented to the rapist/led him on by making him out with him/is a slut etc.

Or “it wasn’t rape because I don’t feel bad about it” (a la Warren Farrell on child-molesting dads).

Adrian,

A few years ago it occurred to me that only men could commit rape

You’re wrong.

(please don’t throw some viagra or using tools scenario at me here)

Translation: “please don’t prove me wrong”. Also, even if we limit ourselves to cisgender people, there are plenty of sex acts which don’t involve an erect penis and which can therefore be forced on an unwilling penis-having person. If your definition of rape only includes nonconsensual PIV, you’re excluding a shitload of victims of all genders and that’s fucking terrible.

Adrian acts like there’s an epidemic of people who consented while kind of drunk turning around and calling it rape, reporting it and that resulting in a conviction. Bullshit

Protip, Adrian: if your defense of “real victims” sounds exactly like an MRA whining about “false accusations”, you might want to reconsider your position.

Woody,

If the post was pulled immediately and the man was fired, how is this “misogyny”? It’s evidence against it.

“It’s not misogyny if someone else disagrees with it!” Seriously, Woody, fess up: are you a liar or are you really this stupid?

Why was I put back on moderation?

Because fuck you.

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

Re: drinking ages: Germany actually doesn’t have one. 16 is an informal cutoff point, i.e. if you appear to be under that, bartenders and waiters can legally refuse to serve you, because you’re clearly not mature enough to handle it. But they generally don’t ask for ID. They go by the way a person is acting. And if they’re acting like a giggly, snot-nosed kid, no beer for them.

On the other hand, the driving age there is 18, and the idea has often been floated of raising it to 21. Speed limits have been imposed on segments of the Autobahn, too, and punishments for all kinds of careless driving, including impaired, are much stricter there than over here. Eg., if you are seen merely staggering drunkenly toward your car, keys in hand, you can count on spending the night in jail. You don’t even have to get behind the wheel.

German universities don’t have frats, either. And on top of that, tuition was free there last time I checked, although you really do have to be in the top of your high-school class in the advanced stream if you want to get in. This pretty much weeds out the rich-but-stupid types you so often see in US frats. You can’t buy your way into the German university system; you have to earn it.

I mention all this because these factors play in to the differences between the two cultures. It’s not that drunken rapes don’t exist in Germany (far from it), but that the whole frat-boy culture that facilitates so many of them on this side of the pond is just not there. And with it, a whole subgenre of sexism unto itself. It’s not that Germans are so much more sober or feministic than North Americans (ha, ha, hardly!), but that the culture on the whole disapproves of irresponsible behavior that much more. Social disapproval makes up for whatever isn’t controlled by law, at least where alcohol is concerned.

BTW, I specifically picked a uni that had outlawed frats. In the case of my alma mater, it was because an out-of-control party in 1983 ended up literally demolishing the house where it was held. I enrolled there in 1986. Last thing I wanted was to lose my virginity perforce to a tub of Purple Jesus.

And yeah, chalk up this German Canadian as being puzzled by the whole existence of frats, too. Why are they even a thing at all, let alone still? Seems to me like the whole shitty essence of the old boys’ network, triple-distilled into some seriously bad juju.

katz
6 years ago

Woody has MRX-Ray glasses on.

X-mray?

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

Also, the argument I recall was that too many 18-year-olds were giving booze to their 15- and 16-year-old friends — so the de facto drinking age was two or three years lower than the legal age, so if you raised the legal age to 21 the de facto age would be 18.
Society has totally screwed-up attitudes toward sex and booze, and then you put the two of them together in a 18-year-old who’s away from their helicopter parents for the first time … I’m always amazed that things aren’t worse. Then there are those public-service ads that say a parent is a criminal if they let their kids sample a drop of booze in their home, even though everybody knows that once they get to college they can drink themselves stupid any time they want. If for fuck’s sake you’re not going to enforce the law at college, don’t preach to me about how I try to prepare my kids.
I was exposed to alcoholism at an early age — my mother and two of my three neighbors had drinking problems. I went to prep school with a bunch of guys who thought that if you didn’t barf you hadn’t drunk enough yet. I’ve lived all my life in a state that avoids an income tax in part by putting liquor stores at rest areas on the interstate highways. Arrrrggggghhhhh!

Hector_St_Clare
6 years ago

Re: They tried lowering the drinking age as well, but a sudden uptick in drunk driving fatalities put the kibosh on that. While technically each state can set the drinking age wherever they want, any state that sets it younger than 21 loses out on that sweet, sweet federal highway money (and also, driving across state lines to drink was part of what caused the aforementioned fatalities).

It’s kind of doubtful that raising the drinking age was really the causative factor in lowering highway fatalities.

In any case, if you really wanted to lower highway fatalities, you could, you know, raise the legal limit to drive. Right now we have lax legal limits to drive, and a high drinking age, which makes *no* sense.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

MRA-X-Ray glasses then?

…They allow you to see any tiny thing that *might possibly be* misconstrued as anti-male, meanwhile rendering all the huge swathes of glaring misogyny everywhere totally unrecognizable.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

No, x-mray specs. That works best.

emilygoddess - MOD
emilygoddess - MOD
6 years ago

It’s kind of doubtful that raising the drinking age was really the causative factor in lowering highway fatalities.

From the link I borked the first time (sorry):

Critics of the change decried rises in alcohol-related traffic fatalities among 18-20 year-old drivers in areas where the drinking age had been lowered. Indeed, one result of leaving states in charge of their own age was the creation of “blood borders” between states that allowed 18-year-olds to drink and those that didn’t. Teenagers from the more restrictive state would drive into the one where they could buy booze, drink, and then drive home, which created a perfect storm for traffic fatalities. Even if teens weren’t any more predisposed than older adults to drive after they’d been drinking, all of this state-hopping meant that those who did drive drunk had to drive greater distances to get home than their older brethren, who could just slip down the block for a beer or six. More miles logged in a car meant more opportunities for a drunken accident.

(The article goes on to note some reasons why these things may not be related after all, but this is nevertheless the reasoning that led to the change)

Bina
Bina
6 years ago

In any case, if you really wanted to lower highway fatalities, you could, you know, raise the legal limit to drive. Right now we have lax legal limits to drive, and a high drinking age, which makes *no* sense.

Orrrrrr you could do what they do in Germany, which is have a really damn good highway patrol, enforcing much stricter driving laws in general.

But somehow, I don’t imagine that would fly in the low-tax-mad, flibbertigibbertarian US of A.

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

Uh-huh.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11243104

—-
The age for buying alcohol was lowered to 18, from 20, in 1999. There has been regular debate about it since, but in 2012, MPs voted 68 to 53 to keep the age at 18 — contrary to the Law Commission’s recommendation to return the age to 20.

Short-term studies have linked the change to an increase in the serious-crash risk for intoxicated drivers directly affected — those aged 18 and 19 years old.

Now, in the first long-term study, Massey University researchers Dr Taisia Huckle and Karl Parker have found this increased risk has become the new normal.

In the years leading up to the change, drivers aged 18 or 19 had roughly the same chances as those aged 20 to 24 of having an “alcohol-involved” vehicle crash that caused injury or death.

That increased in the years following the change, putting the younger drivers at 15 per cent greater risk in the first six years, then at 21 per cent greater risk up to 2010
—-

There being very few cars capable of driving to Australia from NZ, it’s difficult to ascribe this to “blood barriers”

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
6 years ago

Then there are those public-service ads that say a parent is a criminal if they let their kids sample a drop of booze in their home, even though everybody knows that once they get to college they can drink themselves stupid any time they want.

Haven’t seen any of those (then again, I’m in Canada, not the U.S.), but…

Really, that’s just idiotic. The fact that I had occasional bits of alcohol in my mid-teens (hard apple cider, and my parents were ‘big family dinners should have wine’ types, though neither ever drank more than a couple of drinks per day) meant that there was absolutely no mystique to it when I got to University, and I already knew what it did and how to pace myself.

That sounds like the sort of ‘public service announcement’ that will be completely ignored by the people who really need to listen to it, and will only be followed by the people who would probably be better off teaching their kids moderation rather than laying down a flat out ban.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
6 years ago

The whole needing to lower the drinking argument is actualy pretty valid. The core problem is that pretty much all these parties feature underaged drinking which puts them outside the law and thus makes it harder to control other issues. If you have a bunch of underaged drinkers you can hardly hire say a couple of “security” people to make sure that people don’t climb on the roof and fall off or disappear off into rooms together if one of the parties is clearly in no state to do so.

I understand that the police is already, at least sometimes, keeping an eye on official frat parties specifically because there might be underage drinking? Also I doubt frat parties would hire any security other than a few of their own fratboys.

Indeed, that’s probably why Frezza advocates lowering the drinking age: it would mean less legal scrutiny in general plus no more of those occasional lawsuits when frats inevitably get caught serving drinks to freshmen. Also, if college women are deemed old enough to drink, it’s easier to blame them for rape and whatever else.

Obviously, lowering the drinking age and getting rid of “dry” campuses would move some of the student drinking from frat parties and random house parties to real bars, and that might actually improve safety, but I doubt that’s what Frezza had in mind.

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

The PSA that was so harsh on parents who might let their kids experiment with alcohol at home was sponsored by the same state that runs liquor stores at interstate highway rest area. Welcome to the State of Hypocrisy.
There is an enormous alcohol problem on college campuses, and I don’t think anyone really knows what to do about it — assuming they wanted to do anything. The problem is that there’s a lot of competition among colleges to attract paying customers (I.e., students), and they are afraid that if they get a reputation for being the teensiest bit strict on alcohol, the students will go somewhere else.
You can argue about how severely influenced by alcohol someone has to be to lose the ability to consent to sex — I think everyone (at least everyone with a useful opinion) agrees that at some point before passing out a person loses the ability to consent, but I have not heard any real firm ideas about how to determine when that point has been reached. But I think nearly everyone will concede that while drunken hookups may be fun in the short term, they do not contribute much to developing caring and respectful interactions with members of the opposite sex (not to even mention non-binary people) and probably do contribute quite a bit to rape culture in that they tend to promote sex without any kind of emotional contact.
We have a culture that tells people who are too young to drink legally that the consequences of having one drink are more or less the same as having ten, so if you’re going to drink you might as well get drunk. I always felt that trying to inculcate sensible attitudes toward alcohol, more or less against everything that’s out there in our culture, was one of the most, if not the most, important task I had to accomplish as a parent.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

I was actually that paranoid straight-edge guy who never drank, because by the time it was on the table, we’d already lost two system members to rape, and I was positive that booze would only raise the number. I STILL only drink at home, for that same reason. (Of course, now I’m on a medication that forbids alcohol, so that’s that.)

RE: Bina

Orrrrrr you could do what they do in Germany, which is have a really damn good highway patrol, enforcing much stricter driving laws in general.

I dunno, the US has a LOT more road to cover than Germany. I’m not sure that what works there would work here. (Also, I’ve heard Germany is a little less car-necessary than the US? Am I totally off-base on that?)

maistrechat
6 years ago
Reply to  LBT

Yeah, lots of issues where Europe has a “better” take than the U.S. are logistical. People forget that not only do most areas of the U.S. lack anything like decent public transit, things are REALLY far apart here. I commute almost 40 miles one way to my job. My family lives very close from a U.S. perspective – they’re only 150 miles away from me. The spread-out nature of the U.S. greatly increases the complexity of a lot of these issues.

blahlistic (@blahlistic)

Yeah, lots of issues where Europe has a “better” take than the U.S. are logistical.

Yes. outside of urban areas? if you have no car, you pretty rapidly have no job either, because you can’t get to work.

Of course, now I’m on a medication that forbids alcohol, so that’s that.

I don’t avoid drink b/c of possible meds interactions, as I’ve found the interaction is to make me get drunk faster.
I avoid booze because it’s a hard struggle to stop drinking once I start, and that’s bad.
I don’t drive anything but sober…now. I do not and did not drink and drive.
Sadly though…
When younger and much more likely to do stupid crap, I drove 4 miles very carefully and slowly home…on six hits of windowpane acid.
I freaked out because there were all these PEOPLE at this PARTY and so as soon as I stopped melting into the COUCH, which I did for about 45 minutes or so…I decided I needed… to go to my place where it was SAFE…from all the PEOPLE…
Not good at all.
….Though I’m pretty sure it took me about 30 minutes to drive 4 miles. Cars should not turn into silly putty and engage hovercraft mode when you drive, though, nor should stop signs wiggle and turn aqua.

Don’t do this, kids. I was lucky I didn’t hurt anyone.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: maistrechat

People forget that not only do most areas of the U.S. lack anything like decent public transit, things are REALLY far apart here.

YUP. Like, people are astounded that I get around without a car here. They seem to think it’s utterly impossible. Of course, I’m disabled. I do miss the better public transit in Boston, but what can you do.

There’s a reason we have games like this in the USA!

Pantalones
Pantalones
6 years ago

…so wait, his name is seriously one letter away from Freeza?