Is War Machine, the mixed martial arts fighter accused of brutally beating his ex, a Men’s Rights Activist?
The “hero” the Men’s Rights movement deserves?
If the Men’s Rights movement is looking for a celebrity endorser, I think I’ve found just the guy for them: the mixed martial arts fighter, and erstwhile porn actor, War Machine, currently sitting in jail on charges of brutally beating and attempting to kill his ex-girlfriend, porn star Christy Mack.
Men’s Rights activists should be able to look past these criminal charges; after all, as they remind us all the time, women are forever falsely accusing innocent men of all sorts of terrible things.
And in so many ways War Machine is perfect for them. An MMA fighter, he’s already only one letter away from being an MRA. A misogynistic asshole with rage issues, he’ll have no trouble fitting in with the Men’s Rights crowd. And, especialy important for a movement that has a lot of trouble getting any good PR, he’s a bit more comfortable on camera than the Paul Elams and Dean Esmays of the world, with experience on television (on the reality show The Ultimate Fighter: Team Hughes vs. Team Serra), and in seven films (albeit pornographic ones).
Best of all: he’ll need no ideological education from what A Voice for Men likes to call Fuck Shit Up University. War Machine – real name Jonathan Koppenhaver – is already an outspoken proponent of many of the Men’s Rights Movement’s core beliefs.
Consider these selections from a little Men’s Rights manifesto War Machine wrote a few years ago during a previous stint behind bars, serving time for felony assault after two bloody bar fights. His rant, which a friend posted to the internet, would fit right in with the sort of stuff we’ve seen regularly posted on the Men’s Rights subreddit, or The Spearhead, or A Voice for Men. I’ve bolded some of the Men’s Rightsiest bits:
The oppression of MEN is worse than oppression of Jews in Nazi germany, worse than the slavery of Blacks in early America…
There has always been the oppressor and always the oppressed. Before, it was blatant … NOW the oppressor has learned to disguise his evil. You can see man, but you can not see MEN. How easy it is to oppress a minority that is invisible to the eye! How genius of the oppressor! And what a better target too! …
Men challenge injustice from Government, MEN fight for their Constitutional rights, that are slowly being taken away every year. …
And they don’t just oppress us by making more laws and taking away more freedom, they are far more clever than that! Ask yourself what your REAL dream was?? If you gave up on this dream, why? Because of the brainwashing of the Government, that’s why! They taught you to “play it safe.” They told us a responsible man has ONE wife, a house, good credit, good job, and kids. How are you supposed to chase your dreams while maintaining all of that!?
Men are supposed to take risks and be aggressive! What accomplishments have ever come of a man scared to risk it all!? None!? Where would the world be? Still ‘flat!’ Still ‘Earth at the center of the universe!’
If any of you have your Men’s Rights Bingo cards out, I’m guessing you might already be close to scoring a bingo. We’ve got a comparison to slavery that could have come straight from the pages of A Voice for Men, a marriage-is-death-to-male-dreams rant that could have been borrowed from any MGTOW forum, and an evo-psych-esque argument that men are the true risk-takers and the world’s real innovators.
And I don’t think War Machine would have much trouble with Paul Elam’s “Bash a Violent Bitch Month,” either.
[I]t’s Christmas day and I’m laying in my bunk wondering “Why in the hell do American men get married!?” … If your wife is being a bitch you can’t slap her, if your wife is yelling at you, God forbid you yell back … Next thing you know it will be illegal to fuck your wife! LMAO! Maybe then, MEN in this country will get the fucking hint and MOVE! This country forces you to be a bitch!
In another online posting, War Machine touched on another Men’s Rights hobbyhorse, the notion that the justice system is stacked against men:
[L]ook at the prisons, they are FULL of MEN, not women. Are men “evil” and women not? Or do the laws target and attempt to restrict NATURAL MEN’S BEHAVIOR? How many of the HEROES in American history would avoid prison if they lived today? Davey Crockett? Thomas Jefferson? David Bowie? General Grant & General Lee? Shit, George Washington. … Laws target MEN and men’s behavior. Women want to bitch and cry about their rights and equality… LMAO! MEN are the ones locked away like animals, while women run free!
Someone might have to explain to War Machine that David Bowie is not actually a famous American HERO but a famously androgynous British musician who once recorded an album called “Heroes.” (Mr. Machine may be thinking of James Bowie, a well-known 19th century American frontiersman and slave trader, and the guy the Bowie Knife is named after.)
But other than that, he seems ready to go.
There is, of course, that whole attempted murder charge to deal with.
It’s true the Men’s Rights Movement has had few problems in the past rallying behind men with histories of violence. But War Machine might be a harder sell as a Men’s Rights hero. His alleged attack on Mack left her with a cracked rib, a ruptured liver, numerous broken bones, missing teeth and her eyes swollen shut. (See here for photos of her injuries; obviously this link is NSFW and could be triggering.)
While Mr. Machine denies attacking Mack, he joked to a TV host last year that if she were to leave him “I would just kill her” and get a tattoo saying “Rest In Peace” above the tattoo of her name he has on his neck.
And several hours after allegedly trying to murder her, War Machine tweeted this lovely message about his ex:
War Machine does seem to be at a low point in his life. Even aside from the charges he faces, and the time he seems likely to serve, his career in porn is almost certainly over. The “Alpha Male” clothing line he helped start wants nothing to do with him. Nobody but the prison system seems to want this guy.
In other words: Men’s Rights activists, this is your chance! War Machine may not be the, er, hero you want. But he’s certainly the hero you deserve.
Posted on August 21, 2014, in a voice for men, alpha males, antifeminism, domestic violence, entitlement, excusing abuse, incoherent rage, men created civilization, men invented everything, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, misogyny, MRA, paul elam, post contains sarcasm, reactionary bullshit, red pill, violence and tagged anti-feminism, antifeminism, christy mack, domestic violence, men's rights, misogyny, MRA, red pill, violence against women, war machine. Bookmark the permalink. 1,454 Comments.
OK, this comment I can’t just let slide. The brunt of male violence against women is within the family and in intimate relationships. There are situations where it shifts to another class of women (during slavery or colonial occupation, or during war, for example, and sex workers are almost always targeted for an extra level of violence by men), but even then the violence against women within their own homes doesn’t go away, and that means that the women in the underclass face violence from their racial oppressors/soldiers and from the men in their own families and communities. We’re feminists, we’re supposed to know this. What does that mean? Well, it means that the brunt of male violence has always ended up being aimed at the women and girls who they live with (wives, daughters, sisters, girlfriends), most of whom are cis. Don’t erase those women. There are quite literally billions of them. You don’t even have to erase them, in order to make the point that trans women also face violence from men, so why are you doing so?
@Kakanian
What bothered me most was prohibiting people from even expressing sympathy to a suicidal person.
Arctic Ape – Could be. The guy reeks of narcissism and a victim complex, so it’s not surprising he would try to denigrate men who don’t resemble him, and blame society for holding him down. It’s just odd to hear someone complain that things like a wife, good job, adult responsibilities, and the legal system are stumbling blocks to achieving “REAL” dreams. Lots of people manage to achieve great things despite not living in a lawless, unregulated libertarian bachelor paradise – indeed, BECAUSE they don’t.
God forbid even more you have a rational, grownup conversation with her.
What are these “natural men’s behavior” landing them in jail? What is the “male sexuality” that the MRAs is always saying is being criminalized? They always justify the abuse of women by dehumanizing men to nothing but mindless animals. It’s like they hate everybody.
Yeah, War Machine, “REAL” dreams, like multiple assault charges, meaningless sex with total strangers, and what must be an astronomical bar tab.
Actually having friends, family, and responsibilities seems so much more fulfilling to me, but I’m a total beta sap, so what do I know?
Delurking to say that I agree with historiphilia and lea et al re: Ally. I was really surprised and disturbed by what looked to me like cissplaining about the word scrotosphere (which I was always a little surprised was an ok word here) and tone-policing “not all men” stuff. Frankly, I’m not sure why this stuff is controversial; I’ve been following this site and reading the comments for years and before this, I would never have expected that kind of exchange to happen here. I will say that sometimes I’ve disagreed with Ally when she calls out something she sees as problematic, but this wasn’t one of those times. I thought most regulars here agreed that using genitals as insults was wrong, as was explaining to opposed people why their fear of their oppressors was unreasonable. I saw both of those vehemently defended in this thread. I know y’all don’t really know me so of course I don’t expect people to be like “oh, how wrong we were! Thank you, Nellodee, for showing us the error of our ways”, but I guess I just wanted to express my disappointment or something. I’ll probably go back to lurking now.
Uh, “opposed” should be “oppressed”
Exactly.
That attitude is utterly indefensible, horribly harmful and even deadly. And yet it’s widespread and accepted as “natural”.
And it happens all the time. Even now we have trolls in the Zoe Quinn thread, ignoring the no-trolls zone, trying to argue that because she allegedly cheated it’s somehow okay or understandable to harass her.
It really says a lot about our society when in the few days time there are two threads (just on this site) made about abuses and attacks women suffered for “cheating, both threads are declared a no-troll zone; and yet both attract trolls. Who are jumping all over themselves to defend the abusers.
Reading comments about either women (Zoe Quinn or Christy Mack) on other sites is even worse.
Every time a women is abused people are only too happy to rip her life, her choices, her personalty and everything else about her, apart.
To a big chuck of people it’s like victimization a woman has suffered is not enough. And like she must be publicly shamed, abused and victimized all over again just so they can twist it around and make everything “her own fault”.
Well, I’d like to say I’m surprised, but I’m really now.
I’ve watched him in Gene Roddenberry’s Andromeda TV show. After the show kicked head writer and executive producer (Robert Hewitt Wolfe) out, they gave Sorbo freedom to write or change scrip the way he wanted.
His character become irresistible to all human and alien women, super competent and able to do everything, and he even turned out (in total disregard of everything show was up to that point) to be a literal demigod (son of, previously unknown in the show, Paradine. The Paradine are described as first race of sentient beings in the universe.Who probably also crated the universe and who can control space / time. And shape all important things in the cosmos).
That not being enough his character also become a Messiah who will save the universe itself.
So the only thing AVfM policy is meant to help / protect is AVfM’s money?
Nice of them to show it so clearly.
Also, it shows that the only time they care about (men) suicides is when they can use them to attack feminists.
@Auntie Alias
Yes, the way they block any discussion off it is uncalled for, especially since they imply that they are a safe space for men to discuss gendered issues. Men turning to them because they feel unable to admit that they’re suffering from depression would actually fall under their scope and there are plenty of ways people who have already dealt with it could give some level of assistance to folks who’re new to it.
I guess their discussion is so strongly gendered that everyone’d just jump on the guy with pseudo-scientifc suggestions how to “beat” depression and “man up” rather than simply giving the person guidance and reassurance.
I’m not sure that the AVFM crowd would be able to offer support to a man who was suicidal unless they could find a way to blame a woman/women for his feeling that way. Like, man who’s suicidal because his beloved pet died and he was already pretty close to breaking point, or he’s been suffering from clinical depression for years, or he’s trying to quit drinking and having a really hard time of it? They have no way to express support and try to help within the framework of how their movement sees why men commit suicide, because to them male suicide is a response to women being evil.
At least they haven’t endorsed the notion that Pandora is to blame for absolutely everything on their front page yet.
I’m seconding everything cassandrakitty said here. Trans women getting the brunt of male violence? Really? Tell that to Braveheart, the student in India, or all the other women gang-raped and murdered in just that one country. Tell it to children. Tell it to all the women who don’t even make it to shelters because they’re murdered. Tell it to the, what, one a day, is it, women murdered by intimates in the US alone, or the one a week here.
3.5 billion women in the world, and trans women apparently bear the brunt of male violence?
Might I also suggest people look up the Cotton Ceiling if they haven’t heard of it? Because that language has been echoed right here on this blog and that’s misogyny, right there.
If rape and violence are “natural men’s behavior”, that’s an argument against men, not an argument against criminalizing rape and violence.
Also, I find it funny that the EXACT SAME behaviors are considered proof of inferiority when foisted on black people. Are you saying men are sub-human, MRAs?
For any group that are trying to advance the “notion” that men are more rational than women, also arguing that rape and violence are “natural men’s behavior” is hoisting oneself onto one’s petard.
It’s not exactly a winning argument for why women should allow men to be in charge of everything, is it? PR clearly isn’t a strong point for these guys.
Kitteh,
The odds of a trans woman being murdered by a man are far higher than that of a cis woman. It isn’t great for any of us, but it is more of a danger to them.
RE: blahlistic
Yeah, like if someone is alone and telling me, “I am going to kill myself RIGHT NOW unless you give me a reason,” then yeah, I will try to help. I’ve had to before.
But oh god I never want to be in that situation again. So I actively try to avoid having relationships where I am likely to be someone’s sole suicide support. Seriously. You do not want me to be your sole suicide support. If that’s the way the cards go, then fine, but I’m going to actively stack the deck to avoid it, you know what I’m saying?
RE: Kakanian
the policy of telling them to get help offline and in the real world is the only reasonable policy for a message board and the only way to actually help somebody with a clinical depression or other mental health issues that require medical treatment.
Enh, in that case, why didn’t they do what fucking tumblr does and post a list of relevant hotlines, books, and other support strategies? That’s not exactly difficult.
RE: historophilia
*standing ovation* Here, here. You put into words what was bothering me but that I couldn’t put together.
RE: Kittehs
3.5 billion women in the world, and trans women apparently bear the brunt of male violence?
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I really don’t appreciate the implication that there are women, and then there are trans women. Especially since uh, yeah, actually, trans women may be less common than cis women, but they have higher rates of violence, homelessness, being kicked out of jobs, and incarceration.
Yeah, there are more cis women than trans women. But I am so not happy about this idea that trans women are “stealing” cis women’s abuse history when cis women have been kicking them out of the clubhouse all throughout history.
Also, what do you mean by the cotton ceiling? All I’m seeing is stuff about trans women being othered by queer cis women, and that doesn’t seem what you mean here.
Yeah, I thought it was pretty clear that trans women experience higher rates of violence than cis women. I don’t see how saying that diminishes the importance of violence against cis women; it just points out an area of violence against women that is often ignored. (Or mis-gendered.)
The way I’ve seen cotton ceiling used is by trans activists who insist that lesbians are being transphobic for not wanting to fuck people with penises. If getting to say “No, I’m lesbian and I get to decide who, and what sort of body, I want to fuck” is going to be called othering, I’m giving that all the side-eye, because telling women who they should be fucking, or even contemplating fucking, is straight out of the male entitlement handbook.
Do I think those trans activists are even remotely representative of all trans women? No, no more than feMRAs are representative of anyone but themselves. But when I see that same argument about “denying the penis is a female sexual organ is transphobic” used here, then I’m extremely suspicious.
Of course the rates of violence are going to be higher in a much smaller community. It’s foul, it’s disgusting that trans women get this shit, but I don’t feel comfortable with the “bear the brunt of” comment that reads like the vast majority of women are free of lifelong misogyny and male violence.
Doesn’t “bear the brunt of” literally mean “bears with the worst of some bad shit.” I’m not seeing how it means most women are unscathed by violence and misogyny.
And I don’t know much about that “cotton ceiling” thing but a quick google search indicates that it’s something Cathy Brennan has been using to bash trans women so I’m backing away from the concept it until I hear more.
I’ve read actual trans activist stuff about it. I wouldn’t give it any credence if it’d come from Cathy Brennan.
If I’d only seen it from her, I mean.
*snaps fingers like a beatnik in a coffee house*
*reaches for bongos*
Hopefully the blockquote monster is satisfied with my previous offerings >.>
Looks like it! :D
On the topic of Furrinati: anyone familiar with the Black Russian Terrier? I met my first one this morning – gorgeous dog.
Ah, they apparently have some Giant Schnauzer in them! I love Schnauzers; they’re so soft and often do these funny vocalizations that are just charming.
Here are some other cute BRTs:
RE: Kittehs
Yeah, I see “bear the brunt of” as “get the worst of,” not, “cis women obviously don’t get abused, all trans women suffer more.” It’s like saying… black men bear the brunt of police brutality in my country. Acknowledging that they get terrible shit doesn’t mean that other people don’t get affected by police brutality.
And I really don’t see how the cotton ceiling is relevant to this discussion, and am REALLY not okay with talking about trans people’s genitals in a discussion where that has nothing to do with it. (For obvious reasons.)
It’s relevant because this whole thing started with Ally talking about trans women’s genitals, bringing them into the thread because the term scrotosphere – which was coined here months ago specifically to mock the word manosphere and MRA’s obsessions – was used. I mentioned the cotton ceiling because she’s talked about that idea before, and it astonishes me that such an idea can be aired here while everyone nods along. It’s saying who lesbians should be willing to fuck.
I feel like I missed something here, because I don’t remember anyone ever discussing the cotton ceiling before now. Regardless, I’m backing the hell out of this conversation, because I, as a trans person, am EXTREMELY uncomfortable with where this going and how it’s been progressing, and I also lack the language to adequately express WHY.
I don’t post often, but I would like to also say that I was uncomfortable with the treatment of Ally and am unsure why it matters where a term was coined if it can be read as problematic. I was under the impression that people here were in with the genitals=/=gender thing. if scrotosphere=manosphere, wouldn’t that mean that scrotum=men? IDK, it probably isn’t my place to talk about this since I’m cis, but like…would it really hurt anything to just not use scrotosphere anymore? :/
Isn’t this “dogpiling” in the other direction by now?
Obviously, Ally’s problem with the word “scrotosphere” is that she has male genitals but identifies as a woman and does not want to be lumped in with men as a group in this way. I think that we don’t NEED this word and so might not miss it all that much if it’s upsetting to a certain segment of our group. I wonder if we would be comfortable talking about the “vulvosphere”?
I also feel that we jumped too hard on whoever it was who first used the phrase “bearing the brunt” — it was not a well-chosen phrase, but I don’t think it was really intended to mean that non-trans women don’t face high levels of violence — I don’t think anyone who knows anything about violence against women would intentionally make a statement like that. Sometimes people choose words poorly, particularly when they’re upset. I’m a professional writer, and In try hard to be precise in my language, but I still make a lot of mistakes. (Last night, I wrote “we men” when I meant to say “we men who were commenting on Ally’s post at the time”, and I was properly taken to task for it.)
MRA’s honestly believe that kicking the crap out of another person over any imagined slight is “natural men’s behavior,” and they want us to believe that *feminists* are the ones who hate men?
I understood Ally’s meaning, but still winced. “Men are frightening” means something different than “Men frighten me”.
And while I’m not at all attached to ‘scrotosphere’, if there were an online group of cis women who went on and on about how their vaginas were the source of ‘liquid gold’ or what have you, I’d be totally cool with calling them the ‘vulvasphere’, since they are focused so intently on their vulvas.
Re: Kevin Sorbo – boo! I am disappoint. A few years ago he was in town and wanted to do an improv show, so hooked up with a local group here (one of my former instructors is in the group), and it was a riot. He was such a good sport.
Okay, I’m back. I know I said I flounced, but this is actually really bothering me, guys.
Here’s what’s bothering me. Do you guys remember that driveby commenter we had a while back? Her name was something like What’s The Point? or Just Give Up, and in a post on abusive men, she basically said there was no point in fighting back, the men always win in the end, and she at least heavily implied that she was in an abusive relationship and was going to kill herself. (My memory’s fuzzy; I want to say she said so outright.)
I remember that every Mammoth who responded, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ME, offered this woman, who nobody had ever seen before, support and kindness, offering her assistance. Not one person told her that not all men were abusive, that she was being hypocritical saying that in a blog run by David Futurelle. NOT ONE OF YOU.
Why? Because you knew she was saying that out of pain. This was a woman in agony, and all of you knew it, and you prioritized her pain over her statement about men. You guys KNEW that, and it is behavior like that that has made me proud to be with you guys.
Ally is a regular, someone we know, and we know that she is someone in pain. All of you know that. We helped her run away, remember? She’s been talking here about how often she’s been going through suicidal ideation, about the abusive family she still isn’t entirely free of. SHE IS SPEAKING OUT OF PAIN. In my opinion, she deserves just as much kindness and support as Just Give Up.
What I don’t understand is why we gave Just Give Up, a stranger none of us knew, more benefit of the doubt than Ally. I do not understand what the hell is going on and why Ally’s statement is apparently so controversial when NOBODY said anything like this with Just Give Up.
Have I missed something here? Is there some conversation I missed? Because right now, I have to say, I’m actually kind of horrified, and saddened. Come on, guys. You’re my friends. This is actually really upsetting me right now.
@LBT, To be fair I think a bunch of people are supporting Ally here, but I also think you’re raising a good point. I’m sorry I didn’t provide Ally with more timely support.
K, so I’m going to leave my two cents here:
I don’t really agree with some things Ally’s said, the thing about “scrotosphere” being one of them because it’s meant to mock dudes who value everything dudely, from biological sex to gender identity to gender expression, so long as it’s dudely. Basically, what Tracy said about a “vulvasphere”.
However, Ally’s “men are fucking terrifying” wasn’t something that bothered me. Every new man who victimizes me makes me feel that just a little more. There are times I want to throw my hands up because it feels like the only way to be remotely safe is to assume every single man is a predator until he does something that convinces me otherwise. I don’t want to feel that way, and I don’t feel that all the time, and there are definitely men I trust and love and respect and look up to (some right on this very blog), but yeah it is a thing I feel. I mean, unless my creepdar goes off, or the opposite (safe-man-dar?) does, I have no way of knowing whether any given dude will be the next who tries to hurt me. So it feels safer to assume the worst.
Well, I wasn’t here for Just Give Up, but seconding what LBT said about speaking from pain.
While I think scrotosphere’s funny, if someone’s hurt by it I’m willing to set it aside.
I did joke that using it to refer to MRM webspace was rather an insult to nutsacks.
(…The poor, innocent, sensitive nutsacks. Won’t you think of them?)
The fact is, most cishet men are not anti-feminist, so there’s a lot of people who are like minded unto me who nonetheless have scrota, and I don’t want to unintentionally hurt those people.
I think not hurting people’s pretty important.
Also, here’s a takedown of the cotton ceiling horseshit. Basically, a bunch of transphobes used the actual cotton ceiling (trans women feeling othered and degraded in cis queer circles) to act as though trans women were forcing cis lesbians to have sex with them. Because that’s totally how trans women work. It’s not about body images and shame, guys! It’s about raping cis people. That’s not a harmful stereotype of trans women AT ALL.
I’m actually getting pissed now. Come on, guys, I didn’t think you believed this Cathy Brennan horseshit.
I didn’t say anything because I was just like…Oh, okay…and wasn’t going to use that term.
I’ve been in lurkmode on this thread until now . . .but, I feel I need to just say one thing . . .
I basically agree with everything LBT said and I don’t really get why Ally’s comments have become such a huge issue, especially since she agreed to desist after someone said they were a little bothered . . .
but, one thing, I looked back for Just Give Up’s comment, and if we are talking about the same person, she didn’t say anything about all men being abusive. She just said she was tired of being abused and of other women being abused (and even that didn’t read as “all women” just other victims of domestic violence). So I think the reason nobody contradicted her about all men being abusive is that she didn’t say that.
Hey, could you link it for me, grumpycatisagirl? I was worried I got it wrong, but couldn’t find it, because I’m dumb.
Kittehs, I’m not sure I understand what the Cotton Ceiling meme has to do with the current conversation. And I don’t get why you think everyone “just nodded along” when it came up a while back, because several of us were quite adamant in our objections and it caused a lot of hurt feelings on both sides. I don’t blame you if you’re still smarting from that clusterfuck, but I don’t see the point of bringing it up in this thread.
Look, I’ve side-eyed the “scrotosphere” thing too, because I thought that as a community we knew better than to conflate male body parts with men and vice versa. The explanation that it’s about the body part the MRAs value most is well taken, and while I don’t share Ally’s reading of it, I son’t think she was out of line to question it in the first place.
As for “men are fucking terrifying”: I’ve felt that way too when reading stories like this, having also been terrorized by men in the past. I’m pretty sure Schrodinger’s Rapist could be boild down to a similar statement (“Men are potential threats to women”, maybe?). Maybe I’ve been spending too much time among radfems, among whom “men are fucking terrifying” is something of a catchphrase, because I’m a little surprised that such a comment was controversial in a feminist space. And I’m really surprised that people here who have previously made fun of “not all men” were suddenly saying it with straight faces.
I think it’s worthwhile for the community to hash these things out, rather than letting resentments fester, but if people are finding it more painful than productive then I can put my Mod Hat on.
@ LBT… Does anyone outside of transphobic radical feminist circles believe this stuff? Not that it’s not toxic stuff, but I sort of thought of it as something that was…well, more prevalent among old radical feminists.
Mary Daly…the old woman’s dead, but we’re still living with the artefacts of her prejudice.
@LBT the comment I saw was on this thread: http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/05/the-e-day-concert-that-wasnt-the-canadian-association-for-equality-turns-a-pr-disaster-into-a-pr-catastrophe/comment-page-1/#comments
It’s not a very long comment, but I didn’t just want to cut and paste it in this thread because that didn’t seem right somehow. . . .
I’ve been trying to stay out of this because I don’t like conflict with people I like, but I agree with LBT and I don’t mind not using the term scrotosphere if Ally finds it problematic. The intent with the term certainly isn’t transphobic, but you know what they say about intent not being magic.
…Maybe a better wording of “men are fucking terrifying,” might be “Men are a trigger to me?”…
RE: emilygoddess
Thank you. I’m kind of with you RE: the scrotosphere too; I kinda had similar misgivings about the old site name, Manboobz. Yes, I know it’s not intended to be about trans people, I know, which is why I didn’t say anything, but it’s definitely a thing that is there.
RE: blahlistic
Apparently so. :( Which really saddens me.
I mean, I’m not going to wade into the clusterfuck that is the socialization of sexual attraction (gag) but I think it’s perfectly reasonable for trans people to sometimes get fed up with hearing fellow queers say over and over that they can’t be attractive unless they pass as cis. (Except chasers. Who will find you attractive right up until you stop looking “trans enough” for them, at which point they’ll find it a personal betrayal.)
I know a lot of trans people who flat-out refuse to date cis people, just because of all the heartache and grossness involved. There’s always that feeling of being lesser, always that feeling of “ruining” your partner’s sexuality (if Mac bangs me, he’s not bi, he’s STRAIGHT!), always that feeling that they’re either pity-fucking you or only attracted to you BECAUSE you’re trans.
It’s a complicated, personal, really painful topic for a lot of people. Hell, Mac is a wonderful hubby to me, I’ve been with him for years, and I STILL feel sometimes like a fake gay man. It’s why I take on the “real men” trolls so hard, because they’re saying what deep in my soul, I sometimes think of myself.
Was this the comment? http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/05/the-e-day-concert-that-wasnt-the-canadian-association-for-equality-turns-a-pr-disaster-into-a-pr-catastrophe/comment-page-1/#comment-505705
Thank you very much, grumpycat! I really appreciate you going and digging up this old comment! (Though apparently the link isn’t quite working, so here’s the specific comment.
The line I was most thinking of is: “I tell women now just don’t bother telling it asking for help, just go home and honestly give up and wait until your time to go.”
In my opinion, that line is WAY more controversial than Ally’s, since it’s actively telling other abuse victims to just wait to die. But like I said, everyone was kind to her, because they knew she was speaking from a place of pain and (hopefully) was not actually going up to other abuse victims and saying, “Just die. Give up. There’s no point.”
Ninjaed by pallygirl!
Yes, LBT, I think you are absolutely right there. It was a pretty shocking thing to say but the Mammotheers were appropriately compassionate given the context.
But she got pushback on that particular comment, it didn’t slide.
She did? I must have missed it or left the thread too early, pallygirl. Though I’m glad she did get pushback from someone besides me; I was worried I was being too harsh.
There were some earlier comments to yours. I went to page 4 of the comments but they appear to not have posted a second time – don’t know if they read any of the comments.
I don’t even know what’s going on in this thread, but I’m really not liking it.
I’m seconding LBT and Historophilia.
RE: pallygirl
Pfah. My memory’s shittier than I thought. My apologies. Serves me right, using a comment as ammo when I obviously didn’t remember it properly or try to double-check. (I’m amazed I even remembered the poor woman’s handle right.)
Not sure if someone else already said this within the 400+ previous comments, but…
Women get put into a separate prison, dumbass. That’s almost as dumb as this guy’s tweet:
http://chickpea-sarada.tumblr.com/post/92221588777/misandry-mermaid-mydarling-baital
And is he saying that stealing, raping, murdering, etc. (things the laws are restraining) are natural behaviors for men? As in they are by nature thieves, rapists and murderers? Who’s the misandrist here?
How can you ruin someone’s sexuality? O.o
I don’t know if transsexual people tend to enact sexuality in a less physical and more cerebral way then?
At any rate, I ended my marriage because I determined that my ex was highly likely an asexual in denial. I could not be happy being monogamously married to someone who did me like a chore…We were not good for each other at all.
My sexuality and self esteem needed a tune-up, but I’m doing better.
*shakes butt at blockquote monster* Nyah nyah nee-nyaah nyah~!
Lolz, BritterSweet.
RE: blahlistic
How can you ruin someone’s sexuality? O.o
Well, you know, if Mac only likes women and then bangs me, that means that he’s not really bi, he’s just straight and having a fling! Because it’s not like I COUNT or anything. (I am actually quite honored that he saw me as worth changing his sexuality for, though he has expressed interest in a select few other men as well. But barely any.)
I don’t know if transsexual people tend to enact sexuality in a less physical and more cerebral way then?
Not so much that. Just they’re less likely to be transphobic, so you don’t have to spend tons of time explaining your genitals, your dysphoria, and hoping they won’t freak out upon your coming out. (Though there are plenty of transphobic trans people around, they are high unlikely to try and murder you if they find out you’re trans as well.)
Yeah, I get the sentiment (for the same reasons), and I knew what Ally meant, knowing where she’s coming from and what she’s been going through (I feel a little weird talking about her when she isn’t here – Ally, sorry if this is weird). She backed off when asked, and this seems to have taken on a life of its own now.
I wasn’t upset about it, but did wince, and Shrodinger’s Rapist is partly why. How much time have any of us spent trying to explain, over and over, that it ISN’T a generalization about men? That it DOESN’T mean that all women find all men terrifying and threatening at all times? I dunno – I try very hard not to generalise (and I bugger it up sometimes, as we all do) because of this, and because blanket statements about any group are often harmful, and never fair.*
I know that isn’t at all what she meant and was speaking from her own pain (as LBT and others have pointed out). I also think calling attention to it was legit, although done a bit harshly. I agree with emilygoddess that it’s good to talk through these things, as long as we’re all keeping our heads.
*With the exception of the Furrinati, as long as they are glowing, worshipful blanket statements. And they get to lie on the blanket after.
Really? They are transphobic of other trans people? Why? *boggles*
RE: Tracy
Honestly, I would be a little concerned if a guy could not handle the idea that one woman on the face of the earth was intrinsically frightened of him. Or even a significant fraction. There are three billion woman in the world, dude. Your ego will survive. (Not meaning you, Tracy, just hypothetical dude.)
RE: Tracy
Really? They are transphobic of other trans people? Why? *boggles*
*hides face in hands* Lord, where do I start. Well, there’s the Harry Benjamin Syndrome jerks, who believe that they have a medical condition unlike those OTHER trans people who are just faking and making it worse for them. There are the strict Type V Transsexuals who look down on anyone who doesn’t have the requisite binary identity and mass amounts of dysphoria. There are apparently non-binary people who look down on trans women and men for reinforcing the gender binary, but I have yet to personally encounter one of them. There are the people who insist they aren’t trans because they fit their gender role SO well that they feel actively uncomfortable around other trans people, who obviously aren’t as good at being real men/women as they are.
I could go on for a while. Suffice to say, there’s a reason I don’t go to any of the local trans groups in town, unless I have someone else with me as a meat shield.
Just catching up on this thread, and I’m basically agreeing with LBT here. The objections to scrotosphere make a lot of sense to me. And I understand the objections to Man Boobz as well; it obviously wasn’t meant in a transphobic or body-shaming way, just as a pun, but I can certainly understand the objections to it and that’s one of the reasons I changed the name. Probably should have done that a lot sooner.
On the men thing, maybe a better phrasing might be “men can be terrifying.”
OHHHH! One ruins someone’s sexuality by suddenly rendering it unable to fit into a tidy little box labeled “gay” or “straight”. Bisexuals, pansexuals, and asexuals are just confused.
Yeah, because, you know, binary trans people don’t really count as their actual gender.
I’ve always been deeply grateful to my husband that he’s seen me as a man for our entire relationship, and has always been very up-front about that, without needing to add addendum about my sexual skills, looks, or behavior. To him, I am who I am, and he loves who I am. End of story.