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Harassing feminists for expressing their condolences for Robin Williams: Men’s Rights Activism at its finest

Another victory for Men’s Rights activism!

The guy who posted this was so proud of his work here that he pinned this Tweet to the top of his Twitter home page.

Naturally, he went after Jessica Valenti for the same, er, crime.

MRAs are so convinced that feminists hate men that when feminists express their genuine sorrow about a man’s suicide it doesn’t occur to MRAs to perhaps reconsider some of their beliefs about feminism. No, they’d rather use it as an excuse to attack individual feminist women.

Speaking of which, here’s how the  folks at A Voice for Men are mourning the death of Robin Williams — with a supremely nasty and opportunistic attack on Valenti.

More on Valenti in a bit.

 

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Posted on August 16, 2014, in a new woman to hate, a woman is always to blame, antifeminism, MRA, oppressed men, twitter. Bookmark the permalink. 138 Comments.

  1. The Toxoplasmotics are a shitty band.

    Not as shitty as AVfM and the other mister on this subject, however.

  2. Wow. Seems like cosmicrays is another one of those “white cishet men should be allowed to do and say what the everloving fuck they want no matter how much they might hurt other groups, but if a member of an underprivileged group dares to make an ironic joke about about the imagined oppression of the white cishet man, well then it’s exactly like institutionalized bigotry, only in reverse!”

    If you think there is a widespread problem in our society that affects primarily white cishet men with misogynistic attitudes, and which manifests itself in such everyday horrors as friendzoning and people not finding your rape joke funny, then I can see why you’d think something called “misandry” might be a problem. No, I’m not feeling very charitable towards self-centered, entitled, misogynistic, hateful, empathically challenged assholes today.

  3. I’ve only recently began looking at the whole MRA thing and, in that light, may I ask if you ever get used to the pure toxic levels of bullshit exuded by these knuckle-draggers? I mean, they have to produce, what, two thousands tons of pure glowing crap every day? Horrors never cease.

  4. emilygoddess - MOD

    I love how cosmicrays is all “I’ll leave you time to reflect”, as though posting nonsense and running away like a whiny little coward wasn’t his usual behavior here.

    One of the leading causes of Depression in men is hormonal degradation. At about forty-five males, as females do; go through a menopausal period.

    Yeah, no. Andropause is possibly a thing, or group of things, but it’s not the same as menopause.

    It’s also notable, given how many prominent middle aged and older feminists there are whose beliefs are far less man-friendly than Valenti’s, that it’s her he’s fixated on. It’s always young women who MRAs fixate on. Someone like, say, Catherine McKinnon? She’s been around for years, and says a lot of stuff they’d presumably find offensive, but they don’t care. What they’re actually fixated on is women who they want to fuck who’re non-compliant.

    I think the fact that the MRM is primarily an online movement may also be a factor. The older feminists don’t seem to have much of an online presence. Those of us who get most of our news and politics from the Internet are more likely to run across Valenti or Marcotte than McKinnon or Steinem. It’s why can get so het up about RadFemHub while having no idea about Audre Lorde or even Andrea Dworkin.

  5. I’ve been following this shit train for the better part of two years and I’m still not used to the toxicity and periodically need to remove myself from the parts of the internet where they can be found in order to continue functioning as a human being with hope for humanity…so no I don’t think you get used to it.

  6. So they think it’s fine to use someone’s suicide as an ineffective attempt at Gotcha moments? And they think women are the ones treating men’s lives as disposable? I can’t even begin to understand the cognitive dissonance behind that.

  7. I think what drives me craziest about the MRM is that they have legitimate concerns, but they do absolutely zero about them. Worse, they hurt worthy causes such as getting men into mental health programs. One of the girls in my DBT therapy group pointed out that there were no males at all in either ours or the other group the center runs. Borderline supposedly affects women more than men, sure, but one wonders if the fact that it’s a disorder dealing with intense emotions that men are socialized not to express has anything to do with the numbers on that. Borderline deals with high impulsivity as well, and suicide is often an impulsive act. I’ve seen many males disparaging women with Borderline Personality Disorder on those deplorable forums of theirs; they are hurting their own cause and blaming women for it. It’s such obvious cognitive dissonance I want to shove their noses in it like a dog who messed in the house.

  8. http://en.webfail.com/855852d8b8b

    P.S. For my fellow depression sufferers, read this. It’s amazing.

  9. Oh, Ryeash. That’s actually beautiful. I had a really bad time a few weeks ago and a good friend said something like this to me when I told him how weak I felt. I think it carried me through it all.

  10. Fuck you, cosmicrays. Misogynist’s inability to get a joke is not any woman’s fault. I’m sick of people blaming women for men’s shortcomings. ”

    …made her bed.

    Fuck you.
    Fuck you.
    and of course,
    Fuck. You.

  11. BTW, misogynist scum reading this:
    Robin Williams was a feminist. He was a great big lefty progressive and a feminist. He’d have laughed his ass off at you not getting the “male tears” joke. He wasn’t one of yours. He was one of ours. Stop using his tragic death to try to hurt the people who admired him and felt an emotional connection to him. If he were still here, he’d mock you mercilessly. Since he’s not, the rest of us will. We may not have his comic genius, but we’ll do our best to make fun of you being the worst.

  12. Policy of Madness

    MenOnStrike: “Feminists never care about male suicide! So I’m going to shame you and berate you, feminist, for caring about a man’s suicide!” If he actually believed that feminists don’t care about male suicide, and that this is a morally problematic thing that should change, the “solution” he’s selected here is going to be the opposite of effective.

    @cosmicrays

    If you’re trying to make sense, you’ve failed. The protection of the comfort and tender feelings of privileged groups is not a high priority for many social activists, and it’s quite problematic to suggest that it should be. There is a logical problem in expecting the feelings of privileged groups to be privileged on the grounds that those people are already privileged, and it’s not even efficacious to go that route. Social change does not happen when the people who benefit from the status quo are completely comfortable and unchallenged in their comfort.

    I also ??? at your characterization of the people you’re defending as “dummies.” Perhaps you can explain why Valenti deserves to be abused because she didn’t bow and scrape for the benefit of dummies.

  13. Isn’t it just? It helps to remember that we really aren’t weak; it’s our brains rebelling against us telling us stuff like that, and we’re literally doing battle with ourselves every step of the way. I have Bipolar I on top of the Borderline, so I’m no stranger to fighting my own chemicals. It gets so tiring, and seeing how it affects the people you love the most makes suicide seem almost heroic. Then you have people like these men telling you you’re weak or even evil, and it’s hard not to internalize stuff like that. But we’re not weak. We’re not evil. We’re motherfucking warriors, and we’ll go down swinging if we go down at all.

    *hugs* for days, and luck to you with your battles. Sounds like you have at least one supportive friend, and sometimes that’s all it takes.

  14. jbgarner58,

    No. I never cease to be amazed by their douchebaggery.

  15. They blame men for having a 4x higher rate than women by saying “men do it to die, women do it for attention.”

    I’ve run into this quote before, but it was never a feminist who said it. It was MRAs. They ended up saying that women who die from their attempts were not meaning to die.

    MenOnStrike might want to do some research on RW before determining that his suicide and mental health issues are the fault of feminism or divorce courts. Robin was already addicted to cocaine at the beginning of his first marriage. His bipolar disorder probably predated the marriage. He also had abandonment and self-esteem issues that started in his childhood. Maybe, instead of jumping to ridiculous conclusions, MenOnStrike should spend time learning about the science behind mental illness and the man whose life ended because of it.

  16. For a time I worked at a suicide hotline and there was one thing that they stressed through training and I saw time & again on the phone is that suicide is not a spur of the moment decision. It is most of the time a thought through action, A fair amount of time in the person’s mind what they are doing not only makes sense but is also the merciful thing to do for the people around them. A scary large amount of men who I spoke to on the phone didn’t want to talk to me because as a female I “just wouldn’t understand their life”. Unfortunately at that time most volunteers were female so while we tried our bests to make sure they could talk to men that wasn’t always possible at any given time. And believe me that fact weighed heavy on the mind of everyone that volunteered.

    Saying that suicide is weak, selfish, “girly”, stupid helps no one and only makes those in the position feel worse. If you are truly concerned about decreasing the number of people who end their lives support help for people. Work to decrease the stigma of mental illness & depression. Stop the call to “man up”, not take the “wussy/pussy way out”. Increase the ability of everyone, no matter their gender to get non judgmental help.

    Anytime someone, no matter their gender ends their life it is a heartbreaking tragedy. Instead of using it as a soapbox to point out how you think feminists are hypocrites and this is your ultimate gotcha take some time to make a difference in this world to make it a more supportive world.

    But of course that would take you away from your keyboard vigilantism so what am I thinking? Why should you do something when the evil feminists in your mind aren’t doing anything to help men? /sarcasm/

  17. Off topic (slightly), sorry, but have you guys seen this?

    http://www.alternet.org/gender/look-inside-infamous-mens-rights-movement

  18. I know I’ve said this here before, but…

    Even if a suicide attempt were just a bid for attention, isn’t it better for the person to get that attention than it is for them to die? If someone craves attention so badly that they’re willing to risk their own death to get it, then by all the gods they need some fucking attention and others should give it to them. If they’re already getting attention but feel they need more, then something about the attention they’re getting isn’t working and the situation needs to be re-examined. Either way…just give them some damn attention! Find out what’s wrong!

    Humans are social creatures. We need attention from other humans, as much as we need food and water and sleep. When did this culture decide that “wanting attention” was a moral failing?

  19. Policy of Madness

    Even if a suicide attempt were just a bid for attention, isn’t it better for the person to get that attention than it is for them to die?

    Actually, I would go one further, and say that it’s a strange and poor aspect of our culture that “wanting attention” is framed as being a bad thing. What’s wrong with wanting attention? The way some people go about attracting attention is bad, but the badness is in the manner of their actions, not in the motive.

    There is a gendered aspect to this, as boys are rarely smacked down on the grounds that they “just want attention” whereas girls experience this from both authority figures and peers (the boys may be smacked down on other grounds, such as being disruptive). Then when the boys and girls grow up into women and men, they retain these lessons. Even though adult men who act out “for attention” are sometimes reprimanded, they don’t have the ingrained idea that getting attention for themselves is, innately, a bad thing that women do.

  20. There is a gendered aspect to this, as boys are rarely smacked down on the grounds that they “just want attention” whereas girls experience this from both authority figures and peers

    Girls/women are “attention whores” while boys/men are “class clowns” or “the life of the party.”

  21. I assume the empathy removal procedure also results in the inability to understand statistics, poor reading comprehension, a host of cognitive biases, Reddit argument syndrome (YOU USED A FALLACY SO I WIN) and a crippling fear that feminists are going to steal your videogames

  22. A Wolverine
    I can see that on a brochure:

    Empathy removal
    Are you tired with caring about people and just have to… You know…care? Well with this new procedure all your love and empathy will be taken away

    May cause: lack of logic, inability to understand logic and statistics, poor reading comprehension, paranoia, anger, depression, hate, lack of understanding others, lost of humor, not finding baby animals cute and just not giving a ****

  23. I don’t think it’s so much lack of logic per se so much as always starting from false premises, which tends to come from cherry-picked data and the inability to deal with data that doesn’t agree with whatever conclusion they’ve already come to. All feminists want to kill all men because of one rather tasteless Jezebel article several years ago and Valerie Solanas 40 years ago. Feminists don’t care about male suicide so whenever they seem to care about male suicide they are obviously being hypocritical.
    One of the nastier aspects of human character, which seems to be much more prevalent (gross understatement) in males of whatever age, is the tendency to ridicule any signs of weakness and build up one’s own ego by kicking people when they are down.

  24. Ryeash: Thanks, hun. I’m finally working through the hangover of an abusive relationship (on top of already living with depression) and this friend is one of the few people who knows the details. He knows what to say when I don’t.

    And you’re right. This is a battle and we won’t go down easily. People who commit suicide don’t either. Robin Williams fought for so long. He made it to his 60s when some of us don’t make it past our twenties. Losing him is just so sad and awful, but we should always celebrate everyone trying or who tried their best to live in this world.

    Hugs and solidarity to you too! x

  25. Actually, I would go one further, and say that it’s a strange and poor aspect of our culture that “wanting attention” is framed as being a bad thing.

    PRECISELY!
    {read, enthusiastic agreement}
    One of the accusations leveled at self-injurers is that they do it for attention. This is not usually true, but if someone needs attention badly enough to slice themselves open for it, they really ought to be given some fucking attention. Maybe a better way of getting that attention as well.
    @ ryeash, that poster IS amazing…Gotta figure out who all I need to forward a link to that to.

  26. I’ve only recently began looking at the whole MRA thing and, in that light, may I ask if you ever get used to the pure toxic levels of bullshit exuded by these knuckle-draggers?

    Sort of yes, sort of no. You don’t “get used to” it, you learn to live with it. You’re constantly disappointed, rarely surprised, but often shocked.

    This barrel has no bottom. They can always go lower. Even when you think “they’ve done it this time”, they always come up with something worse.

  27. This bullshit comes as no surprise to me. For a supposed activist movement, I have yet to see these chucklefucks show any care for anyone, except as a club to hit other people they don’t like. It’s regular as clockwork with them.

  28. I’ve only recently began looking at the whole MRA thing and, in that light, may I ask if you ever get used to the pure toxic levels of bullshit exuded by these knuckle-draggers? I mean, they have to produce, what, two thousands tons of pure glowing crap every day? Horrors never cease.

    To some degree, yes? I mean, after a point, all my ability to process pure terror is spent, and I’m left with a kind of blissful nothing. A side bonus is that the hilariously misogynistic, stupid crap some people I’m around say just seems so much less insulting because I know these dudes on the internet who are worse.

    Honestly, I think the awareness of MRA’s is a net positive in my life. It gets me the Mammoths, and it nicely concentrates all the tremendous fuckshitarghshitfucknoohgodwhyhelpitburns into one neat little package that never ceases to feel like a hundred burning bees percolating through my skeleton.

    Which means it frees up all my energy for other things!

  29. kittehserf MOD

    @jbgarner58, hi, have a Welcome Package!

    On getting used to MRA craptitudes … for me, I’ve been here a couple of years and yeah, on this level I’m used to it. They don’t really surprise me any more; it there’s a way of hating women, they’ll find it. It pretty much confirms what I’d long thought about misogynists anyway.

    But it’s filtered by what David chooses to write about and the supportive mockery of the regulars (plus kitties, knitting, general conversation, etc, etc … ). I don’t think I’d get used to it if I read it at the source, and I don’t know how David manages it.

  30. cassandrakitty

    The gendered nature of cutting and the cultural response to it has always bothered me. If young women are so desperate for someone to notice that they’re unhappy and take their misery seriously that they’re slicing their arms up with razors, then how is mockery (lol you’re an attention whore) an appropriate response to that? If that’s the assumption about what’s happening, then why does nobody ask why young women feel that they don’t have enough of a voice to express how they’re feeling any other way?

  31. I feel physically ill when I read the shit David quotes from the source. His critics constantly complain he takes shit out of context in order to make it look bad. I find it so much worse when I read this stuff in context! What the hell are they talking about? The emotional hurt and nausea I feel when I read manospherean bullshit in situ is worse than what I experience when I see sad puppy commercial and I change the fucking channel when I see sad puppy commercials.

  32. Honestly unbelievable(though not surprising, sadly), that these MRA scumbags would take advantage of the death of Robin Williams.

  33. Re: attention

    Growing up with a looooot of siblings, I certainly did a lot of thing to get attention, hardly ever realizing it was so.

    Of curse, there was always the accusation of doing stuff “to get attention”, but ironically enough they were often directed at my real interests.

    It took me a long time and maturity to be able to say: “yes, I fucking need some attention here, why is everyone acting like an asshole about it??”

    But in he mean time, I did a hell lot of self-censoring just in case something I would do or say was out of that “need for attention”.

    I hate that this type of oppression is so common and so clear, and yet so hard to explain to someone who doesn’t get it.

  34. cassandrakitty

    When someone starts in with the “lol that girl just wants attention” thing the question to ask them is why they think girls should be invisible.

  35. I find that people who point the finger and accuse others of “attention seeking” tend to be the worst attention seekers themselves.* It’s a projection technique – they don’t like the limelight going onto someone else.

    * there’s another group who are shy and are very uncomfortable with any reflected attention. But I find they don’t tend to use the term.

  36. Oh man, I HATE the “just want attention!” thing. For YEARS, throughout our adolescence, we carefully hid anything depressing we wrote about, for fear people would think we were just doing it for the attention. We stopped drawing anything that might be construed as sad for years.

  37. I just wondered a bit….MRAs seem to have this false idea in their heads that women aren’t human beings. We are terrible, awful creatures. And yet…I think deep down they see that feminists DO care. Women DO care. And that pisses them off more than anything else. Women are supposed to be terrible and sub-human to them. Yet, they are behaving better, more compassionately and bravely than they ever could. And that just sticks in their craw.

  38. cassandrakitty

    “Stop acting like you’re people, you bitches” pretty much sums up most MRA arguments.

  39. @cassandrakitty– Eeeeyup. *sigh*

    *hugs all around and a kitten bouquet*

  40. @redpoppy OMG THATS ADORABLE MUST HAVE KITTEN BOUQUET!!!!!

    (I’d love to know their reason to be against feminism as well :D )

  41. cassandrakitty

    “We are against feminism because this feminist will not put us down and let us go eat all of the cereal that someone spilled on the floor”

  42. @NonServiam: Oof. I’m glad to hear you’re working through it, but I’m sorry it happened to begin with. Keep your supports close and remember that you escaped and survived, but even before that you endured–you were and are very strong, and you’ll only get stronger.

    Robin Williams was strong as well to hold out as long as he did. I just heard a podcast with Marc Maron where he replayed an interview with him. He talks briefly about considering suicide once when he was drunk in a hotel room with someone he didn’t know (something that resonated with me in the aftermath of my own abusive relationship four years ago; did a lot of things I’m not proud of to bury that pain), and it about had me in tears. He joked about talking it out on a podcast instead of in therapy. I wish there wasn’t such a stigma surrounding seeking help for mental health issues. I wouldn’t have lasted much longer if I hadn’t gotten back on medication and into the right therapy program.

  43. Kitten bouquets are the best flowers anyone can receive. Also, I couldn’t come up with a good anti-feminism thing for them. They’re too cute I can’t think.

  44. BTW, misogynist scum reading this:
    Robin Williams was a feminist. He was a great big lefty progressive and a feminist. He’d have laughed his ass off at you not getting the “male tears” joke. He wasn’t one of yours. He was one of ours. Stop using his tragic death to try to hurt the people who admired him and felt an emotional connection to him. If he were still here, he’d mock you mercilessly. Since he’s not, the rest of us will. We may not have his comic genius, but we’ll do our best to make fun of you being the worst.

    Really? I didn’t know that, that’s awesome!

    It’s also notable, given how many prominent middle aged and older feminists there are whose beliefs are far less man-friendly than Valenti’s, that it’s her he’s fixated on. It’s always young women who MRAs fixate on. Someone like, say, Catherine McKinnon? She’s been around for years, and says a lot of stuff they’d presumably find offensive, but they don’t care. What they’re actually fixated on is women who they want to fuck who’re non-compliant.

    I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

  45. Did Robin Williams tears feel extra special to you?

    Compassion for Men and Boys™. Quod erat demonstrandum, baby.

    Of course, this troll probably sneered at the whole premise of Mrs. Doubtfire — namely, that sometimes taking a walk in a woman’s shoes for a while makes a better man (and PERSON) out of you. Because [insert misogynist bullshit "reason" here].

  46. KITTEN BOUQUET

    WANT

  47. Humans are social creatures. We need attention from other humans, as much as we need food and water and sleep. When did this culture decide that “wanting attention” was a moral failing?

    I don’t know when this started (probably longer ago than anyone could imagine!), but I’m fully in agreement…this denial-of-attention thing is bad for the mental health. Not only of the ones being deprived, but of those doing the depriving, too. Because if the thing goes to its logical end…who will be there for them when they need attention — and not the narcissistic kind, either?

  48. cassandrakitty

    The logic of that does seem to lead towards a world that I don’t think many of us would want to live in.

  49. The kitten bouquet is my new wallpaper!

  50. I can’t say that I’ve gotten used to the bullshit spouted by the MRA and misogynist douchebags. I can say that I’m numb to it. I hear it and I’m so emotionally detatched from it that I can’t really muster much outrage anymore. Same with work. I dont really even get angry when a customer essentially sexually assaults me. I bend his fingers back, tell him to stop and I’ve forgotten about it by the time he slinks out if the club. It’s doesn’t even register anymore. It’s routine, its normal and, while it can get annoying, it stopped being personal for me.

    The only emotional damage that can potentially be done are by those that I allow access to that side of me. Shit on the internet or some asshole customer doesn’t even come close. Maybe its extremely thick skin. Maybe it’s unhealthy. But, it certainly works.

  51. Funny how MRAs claim that feminists will make any topic and make it all about feminism, but it appears that here they have taken a tragic death and made it all about hating feminism.

  52. Funny how MRAs claim that feminists will make any topic and make it all about feminism, but it appears that here they have taken a tragic death and made it all about hating feminism.

  53. Been seeing some lovely Robin Williams stories around, BTW:

    Here’s one

    and here’s another.

    Reading these makes me doubly sad. Not only is this sweet menschy guy who cheered and brought joy to so many people now gone in the most tragic way imaginable, but all these wet-blanket and droopy-drawers MRAs are still around, poisoning the atmosphere with their hot, smelly off-gassings, and worse, they’re getting their fucking kicks out of it.

    There really is no justice sometimes.

  54. Not sure if anybody’s posted this one already, but on Twitter Norm MacDonald told a touching story about meeting Williams. :)

  55. It’s always young women who MRAs fixate on.

    And long dead ones.

  56. MRAs are gross and awful, even when it comes to actual men experiencing actual suffering, because it doesn’t fit into their women-hating view of the world? Why am I not the slightest bit surprised.

    (Also, because I love it, I wanted to point out that the ‘cry for help’ post is originally from the incomparable Boggle the Owl: http://boggletheowl.tumblr.com/post/41509206591/ive-been-getting-a-lot-of-these-lately-and-i)

  57. Robin Williams killed himself because he just didn’t give a fuck anymore. Not because he was “severely mentally depressed.” He was developing dementia, and he was going to have to keep working to continue paying off alimony from two divorces. he made a rational decision to off himself, everyone needs to stop feeling sorry for him, I’m sure he wasn’t feeling sorry for himself. He probably feels relieved now. It’s annoying how everyone is trying to use this as a stepping stone for their personal agenda.

  58. Kyle, I’m just going to echo what weirwoodtreehugger stated in the other thread: Get help. You clearly have issues.

    That said, expressing condolences for a suicide victim and deriding assholes who use Williams’s suicide as a reason to hate on feminists is not a “personal agenda”, and it’s generally not a good idea to speculate on the motivations of a person you’ve never even met. You’re projecting your own problems on Williams, and you’re using that projection to be a jerk to people who are genuinely sorry for his passing. Don’t do that.

    Also, what you said in the other thread about ‘female validation’ being necessary for a man to not commit suicide; Don’t do that. “If women won’t date me I’ll kill myself” is manipulative and assholish. You’re better than that.

    I’m not trying to analyze you here, but based on some things you wrote, your bleak worldview may have to do with you buying into some MRM myths about human relationships, and that’s not a good place to be. Don’t believe them, they’re assholes.

    Again, please get help.

  59. Let me expand that: what I mean to say is I don’t believe for a second that Kyle is sincere. I’m 100% certain he’s just trying to say the most objectionable thing he can say. Old-school trolling, if you will.

  60. cassandrakitty

    Oh, does Kyle want some female validation? He came to the wrong place.

  61. Kyle how about we don’t speculate about the reasons that complete strangers commit suicide? Also, I’ve seen nowhere that he had dementia, he actually had depression and parkinsons and I’ve seen various people say he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder though I’ve not seen it officially confirmed. The alimony line has only been run with my MRA’s and others of a similar ilk. Bizarre for you to play that angle and then accuse others of “using his death to further an agenda”.

  62. cassandrakitty

    Not sure if stupid or just Pell.

  63. Fuck you, Kyle. Seriously. You aren’t merely factually wrong. You’re also a disgusting, horrible, human canker. I hope every single time you slice a lemon or a jalapeno, you find a paper cut.

  64. Kyle, so why don’t you stop coming here and using his death to further your agenda? Fuck off.

  65. Yeah, I’m going to just say Kyle is Pell. It makes me feel better.

    Men’s Rights, everyone!

  66. Robin Williams killed himself because he just didn’t give a fuck anymore. Not because he was “severely mentally depressed.”

    Leaving aside the obvious fact that Kyle is a troll… how are those two things contradictory? Seems to me like the former could well be a consequence of the latter.

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