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The Catster Debates: Or, I inadvertently bring MRAs to an innocent cat website

From that other blog of mine
From that other blog of mine

So I did an interview about my Confused Cats Against Feminism blog with Catster.com, a site that devotes itself to collecting “helpful and hilarious information for the worldly but still infatuated Cat aficionado.” Alas, as a result of publishing this interview with me yesterday, they now seem to be collecting angry MRA commenters as well.

Here are some highlights of the, er, debate so far, which I’ve waded into myself, perhaps unwisely. (These are selections, with a bunch missing, though the comments that look obviously like they are responses to other comments, are.) Maeve Connor is the author of the post about me.

catster1

catster2

catster3

catster4

catster5

Here, by the way, are some of the not-belittling, all-inclusive, non-mocking contributors to Women Against Feminism.

From Women Against Feminism
From Women Against Feminism
From Women Against Feminism
From Women Against Feminism
From Women Against Feminism
From Women Against Feminism

I’m just taking a wild guess here, but I’m pretty sure none of these gals are “tweens.”

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pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

@brooked: gah, I just looked at Martin’s feed. The ignorance of the man is just stunning. ROFL at the sidebar bit about how he sued the Gender Studies department, love the way that’s still there even though the case was thrown out as being without merit.

Luzbelitx
6 years ago

Heeeey I just discovered that giant banner on the right linking to CCAF!!!

Anyone else simles at te thought having such a refreshing brain bleach just one click away?

I hope these Confused Furrinati live long and prosper <3

GrumpyOldMan
6 years ago

“*As opposed to the maggots, who are in dead Ernest.*As opposed to the maggots, who are in dead Ernest.”

Robert, I know where you stole that one. Even when fresh it was a putrid pun.

damselindetech
6 years ago

I’ve been chuckling to myself at work over those poor cats being indoctrinated into feminism. I can’t even teach my cats to use the toilet instead of the litterbox, and David’s teaching them philosophy, social justice, and politics?! That is next-level stuff, I tell you what.

Also, in reference to emilygoddess’s comment about MRAs parroting words without understanding what they mean, I immediately thought of this:

[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDTCXy6VQ_c%5D

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Let us all express our awe and wonder at David’s next-level cat training skills. I have trained my cat to understand that an annoyed tone of voice means “stop doing that”, but teaching her what feminism is? Hats off to you, sir.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Wait, what’s Tom going on about now? He should apply for a masters in grudge-holding, he might actually make it through more than a couple of terms of that one before flunking out.

wewereemergencies
wewereemergencies
6 years ago

Is Tom actually accusing David of “saying that child prostitutes have personal agency”? (except being an MRA he doesn’t use “prostitutes”) Really? That is some ridiculous hypocrisy there.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

What is “patriarchal reversal”, class?

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

The latest tweet was a retweet of a claim that the Indian budget for the current financial year has allocated money to women and children but not men. I found a summary of the budget here, but I have no idea what Plan and Unplan expenditure is for a prospective budget: http://indiabudget.nic.in/ub2014-15/bag/bag3.pdf

Clearly, all those monies going to government organisations, which will include employee salaries and wages, plus the pensions money (let alone dollars allocated to healthcare, etc) will not include a single rupee spent on men as there are no male police officers, defence force staff, doctors, and no males who use healthcare services or collect pensions.

How the hell did Tom Martin ever get accepted into a postgraduate program at the LSE? How did he pass his undergraduate degree?

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

* Sorry, terms used are “Non-Plan” and “Plan”.

katz
6 years ago

Thanks, David, I resubmitted them earlier today.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

So, all of the government programs that don’t specifically say they’re about women and children are not about men and will not benefit men, and we know this because, um, hard chairs?

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

It’s the whore penguins I tell you, because (in a whisper) they wrote the budget.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Patriarchal reversal: is that when the magnetic poles reverse and all our electronics stuff stops working? Or is it simply when men can’t come home to a wife-cooked dinner?

katz
6 years ago

Through you would be great, this being the internet and a feminist blog and such.

Brodt
Brodt
6 years ago

Anyone else think its odd that K Pow sounded almost like a radfem (no, not quite…but still)? Are the TERFs merging with the MRAs? We’re doomed!

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

No, K Pow does not sound like a radfem. You sure do sound like a dumbass, though.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

It’s still misogyny if it’s coming from a woman.

katz
6 years ago

Other women can disagree, but I’ve never been dogmatic about who in the movement is allowed to say or do what. I find those kind of hard and fast rules unhelpful.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

It’s a silly rabbithole. Do we criticise male-run organisations that sell website space to feminists because the website space is not being purchased from feminists? Do we criticise male publishers for publishing feminist books?

While you’re obviously doing some vetting of submissions (and two from me haven’t made it /sob), it sounds like most of that is to prevent offensive content coming through.

You’re also not preventing any female from going out and doing something similar.

Also, the point is mockery.

So I don’t think the criticism is fair. But then I’m not Dawkins or a Dawkins acolyte so obviously I can’t logic.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

If it was a site full of only male comments on why women need feminism then I’d see their point, but most of the submissions are coming from women, so David is basically just curating and posting them.

saphy
saphy
6 years ago

It’s not like David is trying to be THE VOICE OF FEMINISM, Schwyzer-style. He is not undermining female voices, and in fact he works with and promotes the work of female feminists (for example, in this very blog post!)

He doesn’t tell people the correct way to be a feminist. He just says “look at this awful shit I found” and mocks it.

saphy
saphy
6 years ago

And isn’t David really the best candidate for curating CCAF because he is actually just made of cats in a David-suit? How dare humans try to tell cats how to feel about feminism!

pecunium
6 years ago

re Plan and Non-Plan:

There are two components of expenditure – plan and non-plan. Of these, plan expenditures are estimated after discussions between each of the ministries concerned and the Planning Commission. Non-plan revenue expenditure is accounted for by interest payments, subsidies (mainly on food and fertilisers), wage and salary payments to government employees, grants to States and Union Territories governments, pensions, police, economic services in various sectors, other general services such as tax collection, social services, and grants to foreign governments. Non-plan capital expenditure mainly includes defence, loans to public enterprises, loans to States, Union Territories and foreign governments.

pecunium
6 years ago

Interesting… Martin still lists the documentary as a work in progress. How long has it been since he said they shot the footage?

Kakanian
Kakanian
6 years ago

>also wtf is with “here in Portland” as some statement of social superiority over Chicago?

Well apparently, the Hammerskins had a hand in making Portland is a city that isn’t too urban, if you get my right-wing lingo.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

The Tom Martin “documentary” (because, like it will be a documentary) appears to have sunk without trace. The most recent mentions I have seen are on this blog.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I wonder if he made enough money to pay off the debt he incurred as a result of being a dumbass. Probably not.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

(and two from me haven’t made it /sob)

Neither have mine.

::huddles in Corner of Grief::

MGHOW Tim
MGHOW Tim
6 years ago

Soooo, my feminist beeothches (slurred on account of celebratory drinking). How are things? Tough few weeks, aye? Failed to tie Rogers to the MRM. Failed to prevent the MRM conference. And what the hell is that whole #WomenAgainstFeminism thing! WOW! Did you do all that?! FanFuckingTastic! Thank you! Thank you very much!

Don’t let it get you down! Turn that frown upside down!

MGHOW Tim

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Just saw this on xojane:

I am That Person who, upon spying a cat pretty much anywhere, immediately goes “kitty!” and veers off in search of the cat. I am not happy until I have petted the cat. I am inconsolable when kitty runs away and does not want to be petted.

I have a twin out there somewhere.

pecunium
6 years ago

pallygirl: He lists is as a work in progress on his twitter bio. It’s pretty funny. 😉

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

It’s probably more ‘in progress’ than him paying off his debts.

Imagine if debtor’s prisons were still a thing, as they used to be. I’m seeing a Hogarthian scene, with poor Tom Martin sitting, shackled, on a Hard Stool, and typing furiously on his notebook (second-hand, of course) about the cruelty of it all.

xodima
6 years ago

There is nothing wrong with pointing out misogyny from women, and mocking the damaging rhetoric spread by nasty ideologies.

If a woman says she doesn’t need feminism, that’s her opinion and I can respect that. However, when she actively opposes feminism based on willful misinterpretation of what it is to be a feminist, and expect not to be challenged and called out for it, then sorry but not sorry.

The MRM can’t use supportive women as shields from criticism by men and women alike who object to their horrible arguments.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

If a woman told me she didn’t need feminism, I’d want to ask if she expected to, say, vote, or take out loans without male permission, or even open bank accounts, or have any access to birth control, or keep her job after she married, or have any chance of the same pay as her male colleagues, or access to divorce without having to prove adultery and cruelty from her husband. Because if she doesn’t need feminism, she’d better walk the walk and give up all those gains.

saphy
saphy
6 years ago

@ kitteh

Make that a triplet 😉

I actually have this unhealthy sort of Nice Guy relationship with one of the neighbourhood cats who won’t let me pat her. I’m all like “Come here puss! Kitty kitty” *makes kissy noises*
And then when she just sits on the front mat of her house staring at me and not coming towards my loving arms I’m just all “FINE THEN YOU WITHOLDING ICE QUEEN I MAKE KISSY NOISES AND MEOWS AT YOU AND YOU GIVE ME NOTHING IN RETURN DON’T YOU KNOW I AM A NICE GUY I AM ALSO A REALLY GOOD CAT-PETTER WHICH YOU’D KNOW IF YOU ONLY GAVE ME A CHANCE INSTEAD OF BEING A JERK”

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

ROFLMAO!

I think I have been a NiceCatPerson(TM) too.

This is a shattering moment of self-awareness.

Kootiepatra
Kootiepatra
6 years ago

…So I may have tried to upvote a comment in the screenshot.

It’s early. My brain has evidently not clocked in for work yet.

As far as the “Should a man run CCAF” bit–it seems to me that this would apply if CCAF was saying “All women who reject feminism are illogical/ignorant/uninformed”. But CCAF doesn’t claim that any woman who is not a feminist is an idiot. It’s not engaging with a serious debate. It’s not even mocking any specific woman/women who have held up a sign; it’s countering some rhetorical non-sequiturs and overt mischaractarization with cute, fuzzy overlords posed next to rhetorical non-sequiturs and overt mischaractarization–about the same subject, no less!

I get why it’s inappropriate for someone from a privileged group to lecture people from an oppressed group about how to properly deal with their oppression. But I feel like, for a lot of reasons, CCAF doesn’t fit that description.

saphy
saphy
6 years ago

Kitteh, this unhealthy relationship has been going on for more than a year. Every time that I pass and she’s there I try again. She still won’t come to me. WHY DO YOU FEAR MY LOVE.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

She’s friendzoned you, saphy! She’s made you an inpat! D:

saphy
saphy
6 years ago

This should not be allowed to happen, kitteh, it violates my human rights and natural human needs CATS HAVE TOO MANY RIGHTS THESE DAYS WHAT ABOUT MORE RIGHTS FOR ME

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

There needs to be A Voice for Patters! Patters’ Human Rights Movement!

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

@pecunium: and I hope he asked Richard Dawkins to create his scale of funniness for rating their jokes.

@saphy and @kitteh: one of my cats walks over me, literally, every night. He goes around the bed, jumps up next to me for a snuggle then walks on me to go to the other side. Sometimes he omits the snuggle part. He is also the one that has the “no, mummy” meow down pat too. And he has ruined two suitcases of mine – from getting home, after I take all my stuff out, he jumped in them and peed in them. He’s *never* toileted incorrectly. I read that as a “piss on you mummy for being away for 5 days” message.

He, along with the other boys, if annoyed with me will sit on the floor with his back to me, perfectly perpendicular. Cats – not subtle.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

::nods::

We definitely need a Humans’ Human Rights Movement for Humans. This furzoning has gone too far!

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

And apropos of the Tom Martin comments:

Sexismbusters…
If there’s somethin’ misandrist in your neighborhood
Who ya gonna call (sexismbusters)
If it’s somethin’ feminist then it don’t look good
Who ya gonna call (sexismbusters)

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Hi, my name is pallygirl, and I was furzoned.