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Mods and Mockers

We have moderators! To better protect this blog from terrible comments by terrible people, I’ve invited several longtime Mammotheers to be mods, and they have graciously accepted. You may know them as Kittehserf and emilygoddess, but from now on they will be known as, well, the same names but with “MOD” at the end, and they will help to enforce the comment policy and keep discussions running smoothly.

Those of you who aren’t mods, feel free to contact me or any of the other mods when you see a troubling comment or a commenter who deserves the boot. You can email whichever of us is on duty at  whtmmods@hotmail.com or you can put a request for a ban (or moderation, or for an over-the-line comment to be deleted) in the comments themselves.

To make it easier for all of us mods to find these requests in the comments, please accompany your request with the words “MOD REQUEST” in all caps. Put that in the subject line of any emails you send as well.

Hopefully with more mods on board and a tougher stance on trolls we’ll be able to keep the comments a safer place for everyone. (Except asshole trolls, but they don’t count.)

I’m also bringing back Troll Challenges for some annoying commenters who might not deserve a full ban, just to see if they’re willing to follow some basic rules. Feel free to suggest Troll Challenges to me and the other mods.

EDIT: Added the new mod email address.

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Dvärghundspossen
6 years ago

I’m like a mutant or something, because I love brussel sprouts. Not many people do, though.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

The smell of broccoli doesn’t bother me at all for some reason, and cauliflower I only dislike because it’s bland. It’s just the sprouts that smell awful to me.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

However! Despite my normally finding it boring, cauliflower is the best when it comes to pakora.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Random but vaguely related to misogyny given that it’s a Murdock paper, this quote plus the accompanying comment made me laugh loud enough to annoy the cat.

“It was widely though [sic] Smith’s depression stemmed from him being a child,” opined the Sunday Mirror, which does strike one as bad news for pretty much everyone with a similar history.

(From Hadley Freeman for The Guardian, a much better paper.)

The Mirror really doesn’t get as much mockery as it deserves overseas, so I thought I’d point people in that direction. It’s almost as silly as the Daily Mail.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Yes, cauliflower pakoras are very nice. Carrot pakoras are my second favourite, but sometimes the batter doesn’t stick properly.

Broccoli and blue cheese (can substitute tasty if you don’t like blue) is a very nice soup.

Brussels sprouts! Hah! What are they good for? Absolutely nothing, say it again.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Is it called The Mirror because it reflects a narrow range of pre-selected reality and gets it backwards?

kiki
kiki
6 years ago

Try chopping brocolli into small florets and dry-frying them until they’re slightly burnt. If, like me, you’re a sucker for anything that tastes smoky, you’ll probably love it.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

cassandra, LOL! You’d think it’d be easy enough to write “he was depressed from childhood” or “had suffered depression since his childhood” without stuffing it up.

Harlan
Harlan
6 years ago

Brussels sprouts should be halved, tossed with a splash of oil, and oven-roasted until tender.

historophilia
6 years ago

Hello there all, a good friend of mine has been asking me for help because his housemate appears to be heading down a proto-MRA root and has been spending too long in the Men’s Rights subreddit.

He even apparently showed him this ancient and thoroughly debunked post as “evidence”: http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/uwekw/facts_and_statistics_detailing_male_oppression/

Does anyone have any good resources that debunk the “evidence” in that post? I know that at least 50% of the “stats” are wrong but it’ll take me forever to gather up all the different stats to refute it. Has anyone done a point by point debunk of that post anywhere?

Tracy
6 years ago

Congrats to all the mods!

I just wanted to let you all know that our cover has been partially blown. Someone, somewhere, told the whole cats-in-a-David-suit thing. They don’t seem to know about the ferrets in the cat suits thing though.

http://elitedaily.com/envision/portraits-of-cats-dressed-as-their-owners-are-a-little-creepy-and-a-lot-funny-photos/657293/

Ally S
6 years ago

@historophilia

I’m not sure what exact resources could be used to debunk that post, but aside from the fact that most of the statistics are wrong/misleading, there is the fact that all of the evidence is decontextualized. That is, there is no explanation of how all of these forms of discrimination fit within a system of domination. Nor is there any explanation of how factors other than gender could be present. Those observations could constitute a helpful starting point for gathering resources, hopefully.

historophilia
6 years ago

@Ally, that is true, also the simple observation that the vast majority of violence against men is committed by men.

Also the fact that “The vast majority of prisoners are men.” is erasing the fact that it is not “men” but Men of Colour, especially Black men who make up most of the prison population. And therefore the reason behind this is racism and not “misandry” (that and the fact that men simply commit more and more violent crime).

bluecatbabe
bluecatbabe
6 years ago

Congratulations and all-hail to the mighty mods.

Definitely good idea for troll challenges, but perhaps on a troll-by-troll basis for the repeat offenders. So for JudgySlur, post a comment which conforms to standard PR professional norms, with no excuses like “the new PR” or “satire”.

For a generic troll, name a renowned STEM person who is a) a woman and b) still alive. Or quote both accurately and relevantly from a renowned woman philosopher.

@ cassandrakitty – the Sunday Mirror isn’t a Murdoch paper, though it is a trashy one.

On misogyny, it was called the Mirror (or rather its sister paper, the Daily Mirror was) because it was aimed at women, and y’know, female vanity and all that.

It was supposed to be staffed and edited by women, too, but a year in (1904) they were all sacked.

cloudiah
6 years ago

@historophilia, I think you’re not in the U.S. so this might not help, but The New Jim Crow has a lot of good stats proving that it’s men of color who are being imprisoned, while white men get diversion or else not even arrested for the same (drug) crimes even though they engage in the same (drug-related) activities as men of color, even at slightly higher rates. (Which makes sense, intuitively: men of color already know the cops are after them, and are much more cautious, whereas suburban white boys know they can deal without much danger of being arrested.)

cloudiah
6 years ago

Also, I know you know this, but the so-called parity in domestic violence only applies if you treat all kinds of abuse (emotional, psychological, all forms of physical (a slap, a close-fisted punch) as equivalent, which reasonable people agree they are not. Women are overwhelmingly the victims of the most severe, life-threatening forms of IPV; the remaining victims are almost entirely men battered by their same sex partners. Yes, trolls, all forms are wrong, but they’re not equivalent. Women accused of IPV are actually slightly more likely to be arrested than men accused of IPV.

Workplace deaths are mostly male, but they’re also going down dramatically in the US–which seems to give the lie to the idea that people view men as disposable. The fact that people see this as a big problem and are working on making it better clearly demonstrates that people care about men. Where the problem is most intractable is actually among undocumented immigrants, at least in the US — they are vulnerable because of their status and their race.

Suicide is a huge problem for both genders. I think we all agree that there should be more mental health resources aimed at men, but it really bothers me that MRAs downplay the problem for women. Women attempt suicide more often than men do, and they belittle this by claiming they don’t really mean it, or (even worse) that women are just too incompetent to do a good job of it. Fuckers.

Men still have more options of finding decent paying jobs that don’t require a college degree. While I think we should look into the gap in college attendance, it doesn’t necessarily indicate a problem — though it might. I have to admit I am amused that they claim the wage gap is down to women’s choices, and therefore it can be ignored, but the college gap (which is down to men’s choices) is a super serious problem and must be fixed immediately. Misters, you’ve got to pick one. Which is it?

When people are accused of crimes, it is public in the US. (Some countries do it differently.) This is due to an aversion to Star Chamber-like secrecy. If we change that, we should do it for all crimes. The reason false rape accusations don’t always result in harsh punishments is that (a) most of them aren’t provably false, (b) of the rest, many involve people with mental illness who aren’t legally responsible, juveniles who aren’t legally responsible, or good faith misidentification of the guilty parties. The UK in particular is quite aggressive at going after false rape accusers, and both there and in the US the threat of prosecution is often used to deter women who’ve actually been raped from pursuing charges.

Men with uteruses have exactly the same reproductive rights as women with uteruses. Feminists aren’t the ones blocking other reproductive options for men. Feminists don’t oppose making vasectomies free. The fact that women have been more successful at organizing for women’s health does NOT mean that men are discriminated against. Get out there, misters, and organize to get that done!

A big chunk of the homelessness problem in the US is connected to (a) the mental health issue, (b) the need for better support systems for veterans, and (c) the prison issue. One youthful drug-related results in a felony conviction that will follow a young man his whole life, making him ineligible for subsidized housing and other financial support, making it harder to find a job, penalizing his relatives if they let him sleep on their couches, and taking away his right to vote. None of these issues are due to him being male; they are all connected to other things. Focusing on their maleness simply obscures the real issues.

Er… This has turned into more of a tirade, than what you were hoping for, which I think was probably stats and stuff. It’s just infuriating that MRAs both make up issues and appropriate the genuine issues of other groups (men of color, people with mental illness, veterans).

talacaris
6 years ago

Oh, brussel sprouts. For me it’s a must on the xmas table.
Cauliblower and broccoli I like best creamed.

talacaris
6 years ago

That is, brusel sprouts boiled for a few minutes, the pour melted butter over them

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

Potatoes : Anya or Pink Fir Apple for boiled or for potato sald (so much flavour)
King Edwards for roast – there is nothing better, crispy on the outside fluffy on the inside.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

This is not yarncraft at all, but would it suffice?

YES IT WILL. Nequam, you have no idea what you’ve done now. If/when my daughter decides that she’s tired of her Barbies, we are totally going to trick them out in this style. And they will all creepily decorate the plant ledge along my living room for the month of October. It will be the greatest Halloween ever.

Re: brassicas – I agree with kiki and Harlan on roasting/dry frying. Brussels sprouts are also delicious shredded and quick-sauteed at high heat, like in this recipe (which also contains tofu, and is delicious enough to make most tofu and sprout haters, aka my entire extended family, admit that maybe they might not be so bad all of the time).

@cloudiah at 11:39 and 12:04 – ::Standing ovation, throwing roses, shouting “bravo!”::

Skye
Skye
6 years ago

The thread seems to have moved on a bit, but I wanted to add something about the conference and “men aren’t all pedos.” In addition to the good points mentioned by other commenters about how not all men are painted that way and that the MRAs seem only to be worried about het men (while inviting a speaker who seems to really believe this about gay men), it also seems odd to me to make this complaint and have a person at their conference advocate lowering the age of consent to 13. I don’t find “we aren’t pedophiles, we’re ephibophiles” a comforting thought, personally.

Ally S
6 years ago

RE: gender symmetry in IPV

[CN: abuse, trauma]

I think one of the strongest objections to the theory of gender symmetry is that most research that supports that theory uses the CTS/CTS2 (Conflict Tactics Scale) in their survey methodology. Surveys based on the CTS have behaviorally specific questions that screen for both perpetration and victimization, so basically every respondent is asked whether they were ever abused or have ever abused someone else. And that methodological design opens up a huge realm of respondent bias.

To start, there is no reason to assume that screening for perpetration will actually help researchers circumvent the problem of victims’ reluctance to disclose their victimization. Respondents who are asked to report perpetration can be reluctant as well, especially if those perpetration-specific questions as explicit as “In the last 12 months, has an intimate partner ever punched or slapped you?” I know from my experiences of abuse that abusers will often rationalize the fuck out of their behavior through disingenuous semantic arguments. They’ll say things like “I didn’t slap you in the face, I just tapped your cheek in order to give you a warning about your behavior.”

On the flip-side, victims of abuse who disclose perpetration may be completely overestimating the severity of their action(s). Trauma often induces intractable feelings of guilt and self-loathing that lead victims to talk about their actions as if they are “just as abusive”. For example, one day my dad was screaming at me and insulting me, telling me to shut up and stop crying. At one point I mustered the courage to stand up for myself and yelled “NO, YOU SHUT UP!” Although I have healed from this incident, for years I felt like I was even worse than him for harshly telling him to stop hurting my feelings. Surely this same abuse dynamic applies to other forms of abuse as well. And so a victim who is asked the same question about slapping and/or punching an intimate partner in the last 12 months may think “I think I did punch them, that’s what they [the abuser] have always told me.”

There is also the issue of context. Abuse is inherently defined by its power dynamic. My father abuses me because his status as my parent establishes an imbalance of power between us, and he maintains this power imbalance by treating me in ways that are supposed to “confirm” my status as a thing to be hurt and exploited for existing. This is certainly not the only form of abuse, and abuse can exist beyond non-familial relationships and even intimate relationships, but it is nonetheless very common. Therefore, a domestic abuse survey has to account for power in the relationship, not just acts of harm against others. It’s remarkably easy to call a lot of situations “mutually abusive” as MRAs say when we completely decontextualize violence to the point that we come to understand all aggression as inherently abusive (including defensive aggression).

I hope at least some of that made sense.

Save The Queen
Save The Queen
6 years ago

@historophillia

Most MRM have little notion of intersectionality, so they consistently get social issues just plain wrong. An example is male suicide. MRM says that it is a gender issue. However, indigenous men have had the highest rates of suicide in the Untied State and Canada long before society supposedly became unfriendly towards men. It has been that way since the early-1940s (and likely earlier than that). it is not a gender issue; it has more to do with systemic racial discrimination, poverty, social isolation on reservations, and substance abuse. When combined, men of color (African-American, Hispanic-American, and Indigenous men) kill themselves at higher rates than those of Euro-American descent. Again, this indicates that it probably has more to do with discrimination, poverty, and substance abuse problems.

As far as higher rates of incarceration for men, this is easily explained by rates the differential rates of reoffense among men and women. Reoffending virtually guarantees a prison sentence.Men recommit crime at a rate of 2-3 times higher than women.

I’m Canadian so I’m far more familiar with Canadian studies:

http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs/pblctns/rcvd-fdffndr/index-eng.aspx

http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/research/r169-eng.shtml

I’m not sure about the U.S. I’m just doing this on the fly with studies I know about already. I’d be very surprised if they were radically different. An interesting note is the second study is that police seem to arrest women accused of sexual crimes at higher rates then men, despite the fact there are far less female offenders in the criminal court system.

MRM have little notion of history or case law when it comes to selective service and seem to believe that feminists demand that women be excluded from it. This article from 1981 demonstrates otherwise. Having NOW and the League of Women Voters support the lawsuit indicates to me feminists aren’t averse to having women included in selective service registration, at least in the early 1980s ( I admit that I don’t have a full understanding of their contemporary positions). When confronted with this, Misters will often ask why haven’t such organizations challenged these rulings since then, which reveals a pretty shocking ignorance of how the judicial branch actually function (this is a Supreme Court case and it is only recently that women have been cleared for full combat roles by military higher-ups).

http://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/26/us/justices-6-3-rule-draft-registration-may-exclude-women.html

MRM are pretty stubborn when faced with evidence that is contrary to their worldview. Best of luck!

Skye
Skye
6 years ago

“MRM are pretty stubborn when faced with evidence that is contrary to their worldview. ”

Definitely. Also, I like Lea’s comment from a few days (?) ago about reality having a “liberal bias”

Woody
Woody
6 years ago

“To better protect this blog from terrible comments by terrible people”

You mean, people who disagree with the accepted dogma.

sebhai
sebhai
6 years ago

“You mean, people who disagree with the accepted dogma.”

I mean stubborn people who refused to accept the evidence that does not support their world view and still they had to repeat the same point again and again…

Phoenician in a time of Romans
Phoenician in a time of Romans
6 years ago

Cauliflower is just boring

i saw this interesting bit from Jamie Oliver yesterday – he took the white pieces of cauliflower, stuck it through a food processor really fine, and then used it as a substitute for rice in a curry, getting it to soak up the flavours as a neutral base while being a vege rather than a carb.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

@Phoenician: that sounds interesting, white rice is high GI and I believe diabetics avoid it for that reason. I do chuckle when I see sushi being advertised as healthy (although it would depend on the referent, sushi is indeed healthier than deep fried mars bars, for example).

And then along came Woody
Tall thin Woody
Slow-walkin Woody
Slow-talkin Woody
Along came long, lean, lanky Woody

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Ooooo, just thought of a challenge. They have to take their most recent comment that has a logic error, identify the error and describe it in plain English using that comment as the basis for description/definition. Posting a second example using cats would give extra credit.

LBT
LBT
6 years ago

RE: emilygoddess

I’ve been trying to think of a good one for Woody, like making him … link to one of David’s posts on Elam (a different one each time).

I like this idea. I also wouldn’t mind making Woody just NOT mention any other MRA or his feelings on them, since that’s basically all he does.

RE: Chthulu’s Intern

wRiTe ThEiR eNtIrE cOmMeNt LiKe ThIs.

OH GOD NO. The idea is making them LESS annoying. LESS!

RE: Woody

You mean, people who disagree with the accepted dogma.

This is funny, coming from a guy who seems to believe Paul Elam can do no wrong. (And damn, he just proved my challenge for him was wrong.)

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

That’s it. Woody must make a comment that isn’t sulky or petulant, and that doesn’t contain any blatant ass-kissing aimed at another, more prominent MRA. It can be about anything! What he had for lunch today, his favorite band, whatever. Just not sulking or praising other MRAs.

Have an original thought, Woody, prove that you’re not actually made of wood!

brooked
brooked
6 years ago

The Mod contact button is super awesome.

brooked
brooked
6 years ago

Here’s a helpful source for homelessness statistics in the US.

http://homeless.samhsa.gov/ResourceFiles/hrc_factsheet.pdf

A study conducted in New York City and Philadelphia indicated that people experiencing chronic homelessness were predominately Black and male:
• In New York City, 92.9% were Black and 82.3% were male
• In Philadelphia, 92.9% were Black and 71.1% were male

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

David, I love the Giant Kitty Face on the sidebar!

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Tracy, those portraits are fantastic.

::looks speculatively at Mads::

Winter Walker
6 years ago

The Giant Kitty Face is truly majestic.
And those cat portraits have seriously inspired me. I need to paint my cat dressed like me! In everyday grubbies, formal wear, and all my fun costumes…
{Looks down at clothes, then at cat.}
I think little Miss Molly Hadfield would be adorable in a ballet leotard, massive army surplus pants, lacy socks, skater sneaks, and green glitter nail polish! XD <3

Winter Walker
6 years ago

kitteh, your cat is named Mads? As in Mikkelsen? 😉

Unimaginative
6 years ago

My go-to recipe for broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, and radishes (so far, we’ll see what else we can do):

– Preheat oven to 400F
– Chop veg into bite-size pieces (about 1 head cauliflower, 2 heads broccoli, or what have you)
– Toss onto a baking tray
– Dot with garlic butter
– Sprinkle with about 4 slices bacon, chopped
– Roast, stirring every 15 minutes or so, until your preferred level of caramelization is achieved.

Also, for brussels sprouts, this turned out really well, although I found the chinese sausage a little too sweet. I haven’t tried subbing it out yet, but I will eventually.

http://www.steamykitchen.com/21289-brussels-sprouts-chinese-sausage-recipe.html

Unimaginative
6 years ago

You feline servants must be rubbing off on me. In all those pictures, I thought the cats looked more realistic, and there was something kind of off about the humans.

Regarding pet portraits, this artist has been praised in a few places I’ve come across, for her ability to really capture the animals’ personalities. http://www.laurabonner.com

mildlymagnificent
6 years ago

Oh dear. I’ve forgotten who I was looking this stuff up for. Countering MRA bullshit on violence.

Easy read. http://kareningalasmith.com/2013/04/29/this-thing-about-male-victims/
Longish read. http://www.brown.uk.com/domesticviolence/dobash.pdf
The discussion about how and why using the Conflict Tactics Scale results in weird conclusions is pretty good. This one would be much improved by spaces between paragraphs, I find the whole pages of unrelieved text a bit hard to take.

Takeaway quote …

While it might be useful to study only women who have been arrested for using nonlethal violence against a male partner, this is such a rare occurrence that it would be difficult to obtain an adequate sample.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

@Winter Walker, lol, no, her name’s Madeleine, but she always gets called Maddie or Mads. I confess I’m not a Mads Mikkelsen fan. Men with no eyebrows always look odd to me. I saw him in Unit One, years ago. He was very good, but I found Lars Brygmann much more eye-candyish (plus I liked his character better). 🙂

@Unimaginative:

You feline servants must be rubbing off on me. In all those pictures, I thought the cats looked more realistic, and there was something kind of off about the humans.

What can I say?

@mildlymagnificent – that was for historophilia.

Winter Walker
6 years ago

@kittehserf, And here I was having fun imagining a cat playing a James Bond villain! I think feline Bond villains would be so much more fun than human ones. Just imagine Daniel Craig being swarmed by evil kitty minions, and finally giving up the fight, overcome by the sheer cuteness! 😀

I confess, I wasn’t sure why I found Mads Mikklesen so attractive. Then I found out that he started his career as a dancer, and it all made sense. I rewatched a couple of episodes of Hannibal, keeping a conscious eye on how he moves, and ended up smitten. Being a dancer myself, I have a deep appreciation for graceful, elegant movement, and he’s got the grace and elegance nailed, even when committing gruesome acts of murder and cannibalism. I suppose that either says how beautifully he moves, or that I’m a sick, twisted little shit.

And yes, my Molly Hadfield is named after both Molly Ringwald, and a musical Canadian astronaut. Cat names are such fun!

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

“While I think we should look into the gap in college attendance, it doesn’t necessarily indicate a problem ”

Not caught up, but I need to check something on that one, I seem to remember seeing that men are enrolling at the same rates, but women are enrolling at higher rates, relative to previous enrollment for their gender.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Yep — http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/03/06/womens-college-enrollment-gains-leave-men-behind/ — men are enrolling at the same rate they have been, women are enrolling more than they used to. Now, why the number of men enrolling hasn’t also increased is an interesting question, but no one is picking female applicants over them or anything like that.

Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

“You mean, people who disagree with the accepted dogma.”

I mean stubborn people who refused to accept the evidence that does not support their world view and still they had to repeat the same point again and again…

Yes and no. The tedious ones can be ignored, what really spawned the need for mods was an asshole questioning a regular who was sexually assaulted as to why they didn’t do something to stop it. And, of course, all the other rape apologia.

kittehserf MOD
kittehserf MOD
6 years ago

Winter Walker, LOL! I didn’t even know Mikkelson had played a Bond villain.

We must be about due to watch Unit One again. I’ll have to keep a lookout for how he moves. Make a change from thinking urgh no those eyebrow ridges and that awful hairdo. 😉

Naming cats is such fun, yes! Our boy Hadji,who passed over just five years ago, was named for the writer Harold Nicolson (Hadji was his nickname). Mum and I were fans of Harold and Vita and their gardens, after watching and reading Portrait of a Marriage. I was using a kitty-patterned souvenir teatowel from Knole – Vita’s childhood home – one night when we had our tiny new kitten, and the idea came: Hadji!

Fibinachi
6 years ago

Congratulations to both emilygoddess and kittehserf!

Hip hip huzzah!
Hip hip huzzah!