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Creepy comment of the day: If men can't get "the steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl," naturally they'll start shooting people.

Banana slug: A better role model for horny humans than bonobos?
Banana slug: A better role model for horny humans than bonobos?

Sometimes I hunt the misogyny, sometimes it wanders up right up to me and says hello.

Today’s post is an example of the latter. Below, a slightly edited comment that someone left for me this morning. It’s a response to a post of mine about a dreadful post on Return of Kings in which a fellow calling himself Billy Chubbs argued, with absolutely no evidence, that a recent high school shooter was driven to murder because of his “probable sexual frustration,” Chubbs went on to argue that young women are “selfish” because they don’t have sex with guys they’re not attracted to.

Anyway, my new commenter – posting under the name “whogoesthere?” – thinks that I and the other commenters here were being too hard on Chubbs’ “very good argument.” And so he deposited this giant rant, which in many ways is even scarier than Chubbs’ original.

He’s a tad verbose, so I’ve trimmed out some stuff that isn’t relevant to his general, er, thesis. And I’ve also taken the liberty of adding a few paragraph breaks and bolding a few of the best (i.e. worst) bits.

When men don’t get the women they want they turn to violence.

Not a good start here, because this just isn’t true. In this case, the phrase “not all men” is, for once, appropriate. Most men don’t get violent when they’re turned down.

This is established all over the animal kingdom and offers a good example about how it applies to humans, that snotty girls who keep their sexual treasures to all but a few males cause the remaining males to snap. …

Animals do all sorts of things that humans don’t do, and we can’t always learn from their behavior or assume that it relates to our own lives.

Or maybe the Evo Psych crew is just looking at the wrong animals. When banana slugs can’t find a partner to have sex with, they simply fertilize themselves. There’s a lesson here, I think, for the angry incels of the world: you can’t always get what you want, and when you can’t, sex with yourself is better than murder.

High school is a massively sexually charged winner take all environment. … Today’s high school is basically an ongoing audition for a porno video and the guys and girls who don’t make the cut can only sit at home and masturbate.

wat

It’s demeaning and hits a major blow to a person’s sexual identity to not be invited to frolic with the beautiful people.

Somehow most people, regardless of gender, manage to survive even if they’re not frolicking with Charlize Theron and/or Channing Tatum.

I’m sorry but almost no men go on wild shooting rampages if they have a beautiful female in their keep.

In their keep?! Also, no. Charles Manson was surrounded by beautiful young women. Yet he orchestrated multiple grisly murders.

The only guys that do so are bank robbers and thieves, generally guys at a later stage of life more fixated on money.

wat

Human beings naturally assess the amount of sex going around them and judge themselves in relationship to the amount and type of sex others are getting.

You know, you can’t actually tell how much and what kind of sex someone is having just by looking at them. Yes, there will always be people in the world having more sex with you. And some of these people are having sex with people you would probably like to have sex with. There are also people who are smarter than you, funnier than you, who can play chess or kickbox better than you, who have hundreds or thousands of times more money than you do.

That’s life. Life isn’t fair.

This makes sense because from a reproductive standpoint sex is coveted, and sex with beautiful thin, young women are the most coveted. Being the first to spoil these young women sexually is viewed reproductively as a guarantee of parentage, thus this is why males instinctively covet and burn with passion for these females.

Ah, yes, it was only a matter of time until the creepy pedo-justifying Evo Psych assfacts made their appearance. Not all men “burn with passion” in their pants for virginal high school girls.

This is why we have “morality” which is in its essence is a promise not to flaunt or indulge in sex moreso than the lowest man or woman in your tribe. This is what is meant when people say “morality went out the window.” They mean someone with more sexual prowess is openly indulging in sex and broadcasting it to stimulate the jealousy of the underclasses.

I’m pretty sure that’s not what people mean when they say “morality went out the window.”

This teen killed people cause he thought that beautiful girls were out of reach. The high school environment merely rubbed it in his face. Yes drugs to treat ADD might’ve eroded many of the impulse control functions in the teen, but the rage against the high school was still the gasoline.

[citation needed]

He might’ve had a picture or two taken with a girl next to him, but oftentimes those high school girls lie and simply eat up the male’s offerings without granting sexual access, but grant it to a random stud.

How dare young women choose who to have sex with, and who not to!

I’m not saying the girl he killed deserved it, it’s only that when you are in that frame of mind you cannot tell who is having more sex than others and you simply fill in the gaps with rage.

Wait, so if she had turned him down he would have been justified in killing her?

The beautiful girl simply represented everything that the teen couldn’t get. The steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.

Yeah, I think you’re confusing high school with porn again. His rampage lasted roughly a minute and a half. He shot her because she was there.

All the other theories posted on this site seem comical, self-righteous and weirdly off-point. It’s like you’re assessing the situation as an asexual senior citizen or righteous prude.

Not a lot of “prudes” here. Just people who find the “women need to have sex with ‘nice guys’ or these ‘nice gys’ will kill you all” to be a somewhat problematic argument.

Generally men want sex with young thin beauties who validate their existence.

Some men do. But most men, among those who are sexually attracted to women, aren’t as neurotically fixated on this small slice of the female demographic – women in their teens and early twenties who are somehow both virginal and sexually “wild” – as manosphere men seem to be. And most people don’t base their entire  self-worth on whether or not they’re having sex with beautiful people.

Some men prefer women older than them. Some like women who are fat. Plenty of men don’t fixate on a particular physical type and are attracted to all sorts of different women. Believe it or not, whogoesthere, there are lots of men who are more interested in what’s in a woman’s head than they are in whether or not she matches up with some particular checklist of physical attributes.

If society removes all of the social pathways to attaining such a beauty, such as making prostitution illegal, increasing shame for men who seek sex, rewarding females and males called manginas who identify and mock the sex seekers and so on… this will lead to depression in men and all of the behaviors surrounding it, including shootings. Sounds pretty much like a logical line of reasoning to me.

And that’s the problem. It’s not actually a logical line of reasoning at all. It’s more like a sort of blackmail.

Men don’t kill women because they can’t have “the steady love and wild sex of a valuable young girl.” Sometimes men kill women because they feel entitled to have sex with these “valuable young girls” and become bitter and enraged when they can’t find a “valuable young girl” who agrees with them on this particular point.

It’s not the lack of “sexual access” that’s the problem. It’s the notion that your desire for “sexual access” means more than the right of that person to say “no.” It’s the notion that society has done you wrong because you can’t (at least at the moment) get laid. It’s the idea that your desire to have sex with a particular kind of woman somehow trumps the right of other people to live.

I mean, what the fucking fuck.

Oh, by the way, there’s no evidence that the shooter in question – Karl Halverson Pierson – was motivated by sexual frustration. His intended target was the school librarian, who is also the school’s debate coach. Pierson was obsessed with debate, and had some sort of grudge against the coach.

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cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Even the exes that I’m the least fond of I’m pretty sure I could describe without sounding like I was ordering them from an IKEA catalogue. Dude seems to be incapable of talking about sex or women without being creepy.

pecunium
6 years ago

I didn’t bother to read the list.

Why?

Because I don’t care. As I/we have said, it if it’s one, if it’s a thousand, so long as 1: you were both freely consenting, and 2: it was what you wanted, the numbers don’t matter.

pecunium
6 years ago

argenti: I don’t know if it’s “that” ex, or not. There are a couple whom I think I’ve mentioned in detail enough that you might be really upset with them.

It’s not as if 1: I’ve always made the best choices, or 2: I have any pretense to the perfection of women.

On balance, it’s only a couple of exes I don’t really speak of, and only a few I don’t speak do. There are a couple who used me, and a couple whom I (in my callow youth) probably treated shabbily.

There are a few I’m still close to, and a fair number I still see with some some frequency. I invited at least four to my wedding. One invited me to her (recent) wedding (it was this month… on the other side of the country. Timing was terrible, so I couldn’t make it).

On the whole the “treat them like people thing” is working out pretty well.

pecunium
6 years ago

Carp… don’t speak to. I really need to get my sleep schedule in some sort of decent order.

As soon as this backup is done (so I can fix the registry key for my task scheduler, which is why the backup can’t be unattended), I can get to work on that.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
6 years ago

OMG, this thread!

Things you learn when your mom’s first career was as the director of public health at a large university. She was affectionately known as “the condom lady” for many years.

Hey, my mom was a public health nurse for 10 years before she retired! She called herself the pecker checker, and said she knew every dumb prick in town 😀

My current favourite summer recipe: http://theclothesmakethegirl.com/2013/06/20/muffaletta-salad/

It’s a salad, but it’s not a green one. You could probably skip steaming the veg, but I find it more satiating and edible when you do. I usually make a double recipe and then eat it for a week (or more. I love leftovers). It’s also a great side-dish.

The other night I made this on the bbq: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/emeril-lagasse/grilled-dungeness-crabs-with-kicked-up-seasoned-butter-recipe.html

I used frozen, pre-cooked crab from the grocery store and some aluminum foil roasting pans. I think I ate about a pound of crab myself, and then ate about a pound of cherries for dessert. Bliss. I think I might be a little hormonal, because I want to eat it again, and my thumbs haven’t even healed yet up from getting poked by the shells.

undfreeland
undfreeland
6 years ago

@pecunium, man. You really are full of yourself. The reason you’re so content is that you live the life of a high-status man. (yeah, you don’t have money, but you apparently have looks, charisma and happen to have interests that women like. Note that I have noted I may have overestimated the importance of wealth.)
You were an interrogator. I’m sure you fed them milk and cookies and sent them on their way.

I really think it’s amusing that some claiming that people have served in the military for economic reasons means they weren’t mercenaries. That is precisely what it means. Were they to serve out of a sense of duty and honor, that would not be.

@kittehserf, i missed this early, “suddenly squired square jaw and fit body.” I never claimed anything to the contrary. Also, I never claimed to have a square jaw. I have a decent jaw line. I don’ have a double-chin or flat face. If I had a square jaw, my life would be much better. Go back. Check what I wrote. I specifically said I wasn’t amongst the dregs. Repeatedly.

Someone asked why I can’t be happy. It’s because I see things clearly. The lase girl I was with, we got along great and she really liked me, but unlike most mouth breathers, I couldn’t ignore the fact that she disgusted me.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Dungeness crab is tasty, for sure. I think it might be even better than red-king, to be honest.

I’m a little too scared to eat tanner crabs. One of the profs was studying bitter crab disease, and it’s effects/transmission between tanner crabs. Bitter crab is not a good look on crabs. It just isn’t.

They were in a tank right next to my flounders, so I saw them all the time. Really, not a good look.

Tasty Recipe: German Hot Potato Salad (hot as in served hot, not as in spicy)

Ingredients:
Potatoes! (4 ish)
Some bacon (however much you like. We used 5 strips, usually)
1 tablespoon flour
1.5 teaspoons sugar (You can use more, if you like sweeter)
1/3 cup water
1/4 cup white wine vinegar
1/2 cup chopped green onions (Honestly, we usually eyeballed this…)
salt and pepper to taste (we used lots of coarse ground, because pepper fiends)

Method:

Boil potatoes til tender, but firm enough to cut (10-15 min). Drain, cool (so you don’t burn on hot potato!), chop into bite size cubes.

Fry bacon. Drain it, but save the fat (used later). Crumble or cut into little bits.

In a big saucepan, mix the bacon fat, flour, sugar, water, and vinegar, and cook on medium heat, until it becomes a bit thick (About the consistency of creamy salad dressings, maybe a little thicker/thinner, depending on personal preference)

Put potato chunks, diced green onions, and bacon into the saucepan, (still on heat) and mix until everything’s well coated with the dressing, and the potatoes are nice and warm. Add salt and pepper to taste.

Serve warm, because that’s when it’s tastiest.

🙂

pecunium
6 years ago

Undy: I am not, “full of myself”. Do I have a good life? Yes. Why? Because I made it so. I work at it. It’s not that I’m a “high-status man”. It’s that I enjoy what do, because I do what I enjoy.

You don’t. You scrimp, and save for some mythical future when you will have it all, because granny is gonna die. You whine that daddy won’t give you money and complain that keeps you from getting “hotties”. Sadly you even admit that what I’m saying is true:

happen to have interests that women like. Note that I have noted I may have overestimated the importance of wealth.

So go work on some of those interests. BTW, what I have that “women like” is a sense of their humanity. What they have, which I like, is a sense of mine.

I really think it’s amusing that some claiming that people have served in the military for economic reasons means they weren’t mercenaries. That is precisely what it means. Were they to serve out of a sense of duty and honor, that would not be.

Remember where you said you had no delusions about the military, and I said you were wrong…

You’re still wrong.

In this context the denotative words don’t apply. Allow me to introduce a poem:

‘Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries’

These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth’s foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.

Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth’s foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay.

I’ll bet you don’t know about whom that was written.

It was written about the British Regular Army of 1914, The inheritors of the Long Service Army of the early part of Queen Victoria’s reign. The troops for whom Rudyard Kipling wrote:

Tommy

I went into a public-‘ouse to get a pint o’ beer,
The publican ‘e up an’ sez, “We serve no red-coats here.”
The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:
   O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, go away”;
   But it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play,
   The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
  O it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but ‘adn’t none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,
But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!
   For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, wait outside”;
   But it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide,
   The troopship’s on the tide, my boys, the troopship’s on the tide,
   O it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide.

Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
   Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, ‘ow’s yer soul?”
   But it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll,
   The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
   O it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll.

We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;
While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, fall be’ind”,
But it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind,
There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
O it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind.

You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:
We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
   For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
   But it’s “Saviour of ‘is country” when the guns begin to shoot;
   An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
   An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool — you bet that Tommy sees!

These were troops like those you casually dismiss as doing a necessary thing, for which you owe no gratitude, because they are “mercenary” (says the fool who intends to play the vulture for the money his antecedents earned, so he can use it to day-trade his way to fortune).

Are some creatures of “The Poverty Draft”? Sure. But you know what, they don’t stay in. I didn’t join for the money, btw. I joined because it suited me to enlist. The reasons were complex, and not really any of your business. I was gonna be a legal clerk (which was a somewhat “mercenary” choice. Never mind that I chose the Battalion I intended to join [when I was 25, working as a studio projectionist; $15 an hour in 1993, entry level wage, easy work, nice co-workers and I got to rub-shoulders with famous people, I traded that in for $917 a month;l you do the math on my “mercenary” nature] because of the people I knew in it. I also thought legal clerk could be parlayed into a paralegal career), but I was offered a shot at interrogation (longish odds, only about 1/2 of the people who try for it make through the training).

So I gave up a profitable MOS, for one that has much less in they way of civilian application; unless one wants to be a cop: which I don’t.

Nope, I was (as are so many of my fellows) just like “The Old Contemptibles”. I did it, until I retired (with a disability) because I liked it. I did it because I loved my comrades. I did it because, well because.

It was no small part of why I’m married to my present wife, instead of to my ex of 10 years. She is a Quaker. It caused strain; though she: and her family, and The Meetings we spent time in, all understood the Army better than you do; largely because they listened to me about it, and how I felt about it, and why I stayed in. They didn’t think it a necessary job, But they love me, and knew that it was part of who I am, and that while I am pacifistic, and wanted war less than they did, I am not a pacifist.

But being in the Army, the way I was in the Army, was a strain. It was financially hard, because I was more than part-time, and less than full. It was emotionally hard, because I was often away. It was a lot of things.

What it wasn’t was something any of us did, “for the money”. The aches, and pains, and strains, and injuries, and griefs, and all the rest of it… nothing money can make up for.

I didn’t go to the graveyard in my dress uniform to fold flags because I was getting paid. I didn’t go in my dress uniform, to haul the casket of a soldier I knew out to where his family could hear taps, and jump to the echoes of the firing party for money, while they thought about how we had sent him to where he died.

No, I did that for love, and the sense of honor, and duty.

So if you want to spit on that, and those others who enlisted for whatever reasons they chose to enlist…

You can go fuck yourself.

Where were we…

Ah yes… your inconsistencies.

Someone asked why I can’t be happy. It’s because I see things clearly. The lase girl I was with, we got along great and she really liked me, but unlike most mouth breathers, I couldn’t ignore the fact that she disgusted me.

This must be some new usage of, “see clearly” you kids today are using. Because me… if I were to say I, “got along great” with someone, they aren’t going to be someone who “really disgusts me”.

Because I see myself clearly enough to know that having sex with someone who disgusted me I’d wouldn’t be having a good time. I’d be making myself miserable.

That, my dear boy, is why you can’t be happy. The difference between us isn’t my hobbies, or my “high status masculinity”, it’s that where I like the sex I’m having, because I like the people I’m having sex with… you don’t, because you aren’t.

The fault, my dear undfreeland, lies not with your stars, but with you.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Aaaand Und is still spreading his jerkitude.

Und, even if you looked like Tom Hiddleston, or Chris Helmsworth, or Brad Pitt, or whatever person it is that you think embodies the only shape that the pretty ladies like…

… after seeing what you’ve shared here, I wouldn’t touch you with a thirty nine and a half foot pole.

If any of the girls who ‘liked’ you saw what you posted here, my bet is they wouldn’t call you back in a hurry.

Manipulative jerks who call you (or former girlfriends) hideous behind your (or their) back(s), and only use you (or them) to get off?

Really, really unattractive.

You admit you have to keep a facade up. That’s because the real you is absolutely repugnant.

Sleep well, and try to consider growing up. Quit waiting for family to die. Even if your dad was a class A jerk, waiting for family to die is just cold.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

If I had a square jaw, my life would be much better.

Hahahahahahahah!

My life would be so much better if I was 5ft10. I know this because I just know, OK? Only mouth-breathers disagree.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Thanks for the mayo-free potato salad recipe, BTW. Mayo, it’s Satan’s spooge, and I hates it.

pecunium
6 years ago

Fuck… The Blockquote monster was hungry:

I hope I fixed it:

Undy: I am not, “full of myself”. Do I have a good life? Yes. Why? Because I made it so. I work at it. It’s not that I’m a “high-status man”. It’s that I enjoy what do, because I do what I enjoy.

You don’t. You scrimp, and save for some mythical future when you will have it all, because granny is gonna die. You whine that daddy won’t give you money and complain that keeps you from getting “hotties”. Sadly you even admit that what I’m saying is true:

happen to have interests that women like. Note that I have noted I may have overestimated the importance of wealth.

So go work on some of those interests. BTW, what I have that “women like” is a sense of their humanity. What they have, which I like, is a sense of mine.

I really think it’s amusing that some claiming that people have served in the military for economic reasons means they weren’t mercenaries. That is precisely what it means. Were they to serve out of a sense of duty and honor, that would not be.

Remember where you said you had no delusions about the military, and I said you were wrong…

You’re still wrong.

In this context the denotative words don’t apply. Allow me to introduce a poem:

‘Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries’

These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth’s foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.

Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth’s foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay.

I’ll bet you don’t know about whom that was written.

It was written about the British Regular Army of 1914, The inheritors of the Long Service Army of the early part of Queen Victoria’s reign. The troops for whom Rudyard Kipling wrote:

Tommy

I went into a public-‘ouse to get a pint o’ beer,
The publican ‘e up an’ sez, “We serve no red-coats here.”
The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:
  O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, go away”;
  But it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play,
  The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
  O it’s “Thank you, Mister Atkins”, when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but ‘adn’t none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,
But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!
  For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, wait outside”;
  But it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide,
  The troopship’s on the tide, my boys, the troopship’s on the tide,
  O it’s “Special train for Atkins” when the trooper’s on the tide.

Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
  Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, ‘ow’s yer soul?”
  But it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll,
  The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
  O it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll.

We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;
  While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, fall be’ind”,
  But it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind,
  There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
  O it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind.

You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:
We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
  For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
  But it’s “Saviour of ‘is country” when the guns begin to shoot;
  An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
  An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool — you bet that Tommy sees!

These were troops like those you casually dismiss as doing a necessary thing, for which you owe no gratitude, because they are “mercenary” (says the fool who intends to play the vulture for the money his antecedents earned, so he can use it to day-trade his way to fortune).

Are some creatures of “The Poverty Draft”? Sure. But you know what, they don’t stay in. I didn’t join for the money, btw. I joined because it suited me to enlist. The reasons were complex, and not really any of your business. I was gonna be a legal clerk (which was a somewhat “mercenary” choice. Never mind that I chose the Battalion I intended to join [when I was 25, working as a studio projectionist; $15 an hour in 1993, entry level wage, easy work, nice co-workers and I got to rub-shoulders with famous people, I traded that in for $917 a month;l you do the math on my “mercenary” nature] because of the people I knew in it. I also thought legal clerk could be parlayed into a paralegal career), but I was offered a shot at interrogation (longish odds, only about 1/2 of the people who try for it make through the training).

So I gave up a profitable MOS, for one that has much less in they way of civilian application; unless one wants to be a cop: which I don’t.

Nope, I was (as are so many of my fellows) just like “The Old Contemptibles”. I did it, until I retired (with a disability) because I liked it. I did it because I loved my comrades. I did it because, well because.

It was no small part of why I’m married to my present wife, instead of to my ex of 10 years. She is a Quaker. It caused strain; though she: and her family, and The Meetings we spent time in, all understood the Army better than you do; largely because they listened to me about it, and how I felt about it, and why I stayed in. They didn’t think it a necessary job, But they love me, and knew that it was part of who I am, and that while I am pacifistic, and wanted war less than they did, I am not a pacifist.

But being in the Army, the way I was in the Army, was a strain. It was financially hard, because I was more than part-time, and less than full. It was emotionally hard, because I was often away. It was a lot of things.

What it wasn’t was something any of us did, “for the money”. The aches, and pains, and strains, and injuries, and griefs, and all the rest of it… nothing money can make up for.

I didn’t go to the graveyard in my dress uniform to fold flags because I was getting paid. I didn’t go in my dress uniform, to haul the casket of a soldier I knew out to where his family could hear taps, and jump to the echoes of the firing party for money, while they thought about how we had sent him to where he died.

No, I did that for love, and the sense of honor, and duty.

So if you want to spit on that, and those others who enlisted for whatever reasons they chose to enlist…

You can go fuck yourself.

Where were we…

Ah yes… your inconsistencies.

Someone asked why I can’t be happy. It’s because I see things clearly. The lase girl I was with, we got along great and she really liked me, but unlike most mouth breathers, I couldn’t ignore the fact that she disgusted me.

This must be some new usage of, “see clearly” you kids today are using. Because me… if I were to say I, “got along great” with someone, they aren’t going to be someone who “really disgusts me”.

Because I see myself clearly enough to know that having sex with someone who disgusted me I’d wouldn’t be having a good time. I’d be making myself miserable.

That, my dear boy, is why you can’t be happy. The difference between us isn’t my hobbies, or my “high status masculinity”, it’s that where I like the sex I’m having, because I like the people I’m having sex with… you don’t, because you aren’t.

The fault, my dear undfreeland, lies not with your stars, but with you.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Random, but I was browsing a shopping site and you know what I saw? Grey acid-wash jeans with ankle zips. Which of course reminded me of the 80s, which made me realize that that was when I first heard the kind of crap und is spouting. So congratulations, kid, your arguments are literally older than you are.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Re: Mayoless recipe

You’re welcome!

undfreeland
undfreeland
6 years ago

@pecunium, I once sat and listened to a guy go on about his war experiences. Fresh back from Afghanistan. I was friends with his girlfriend (who I would totally have taken to bone city) and was hanging out with them when he just started going on about shit. He may have killed a baby. He doesn’t know. He did other terrible things. Those around him did terrible things. He wasn’t sorry. He said it was for money.
For every person like you, someone in the army so they can have their own little eat, pray, love adventure, there’s someone like him.

And would it ever occur to you that I actually like my interests? I have fun all day. It’s women that don’t like them. Not their problem. My problem

As for sleeping with a woman I find disgusting, sometimes those are the ones that like you, and you think “well, she has big boobs. Maybe it won’t be so bad” and then it really isn’t during. But when that’s not going on they still look terrible. They certainly don’t cause the intoxicating effect of being in the presence of a beutiful woman. They become a testament to you lack of value.

@cassandrakitty, I’m 6’2″ I’d probably never have gotten laid if I was 5’10

@contrapanglos, everyone uses everyone else. I’m just honest with myself about it.

kittehserf
6 years ago

If I had a square jaw, my life would be much better.

That made me lol, partly for the obvious garbage, partly because the square-jawed = handsome stereotype. If there’s one feature I’m pretty much guaranteed to find unattractive, that’s it.

This must be some new usage of, “see clearly” you kids today are using. Because me… if I were to say I, “got along great” with someone, they aren’t going to be someone who “really disgusts me”.

Yeah, dumbshit sees things so clearly when he thinks opposites are synonyms. Hmm, does this mean I’d get along great with Tony Abbott?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Men who’re a mere 5ft10 never get laid. It are a fact.

who I would totally have taken to bone city

Wahahaha OMG I’m fucking dying, that is the dumbest sex euphemism I have ever heard.

@kittehs

I don’t really get the square jaw thing either. I mean, are there a few men with square jaws who I think are handsome? Sure. Is it either necessary or preferred in a male sexual partner? No, because people don’t fuck with their jaws.

(Though admittedly I suppose well-developed jaw muscles might come in handy from a stamina perspective.)

kittehserf
6 years ago

LOL about stamina!

Y’know who I find the epitome of the drawn-with-a-T-square face? David Coulthard. Never could abide those sort of features. Give me a long, oval face, preferably with a longish or pointed jaw.

But of course our preferences don’t count, because we’re all those unknowable women. I guess people are so unknowable that we don’t even know what our own preferences are!

contrapangloss
6 years ago

Fun fact:

Seals do actually have a bone in their boners! It’s called a baculum. So do all other apes and primates, except for humans. The baculum has emerged multiple times in evolutionary lineages.

So technically, humans don’t really bone…

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

But all of our relatives do!

There are theories the “rib” referred to in the story of Genesis was ACTUALLY Adam’s baculum hence the lack of baculum in our species.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

*addendum “Closely related primates”

Tarsiers are in the boneless club, with us, as well as a bunch of the new world monkeys. Old world monkeys, for the most part bone, and all apes (but us) bone!

(This is what happens when marine biologists try to remember physiology of terrestrial clades)

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

Well, fuck, we’re trying, OK?

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

Did neanderthals have a bone? Because if so that would kind of explain undfreeland.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

Probably not. A bone that fragile would be very unlikely to fossilise BUT there’s no indication they did.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

OTOH I’m fairly sure that whingeing wasn’t a big part of the neanderthal lifestyle.

contrapangloss
6 years ago

It’s good to have a marine bio buddy.

🙂

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

🙂

I think neanderthals were too busy living to post like undfreeland.

Sir Bodsworth Ruggleby III
Sir Bodsworth Ruggleby III
6 years ago

I’m with kittehserf.* I think our new troll is looking a lot like Mr Al. The pretension. The story that starts simple but becomes increasingly Byzantine without actually becoming interesting. The weird shifts in ideology, like he doesn’t quite understand the position he’s supposed to represent. The alternating self-pity and self-righteousness. As mentioned, the fixation on Pecunium ans Cassandrakitty… Yeah, just might be.

* Btw, don’t remember if I wished you happy birthday, kittehs, but if I didn’t – Happy Birthday!

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

Or the hero from the game I’m playing now his jaw is even more square

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
6 years ago

@contrapangloss – Well, that gives new meaning to “argumentum ad baculum”. There really should be a special “argument from the penis” fallacy for MRA/MGTOW/PUAs. So many of their observations originate from there.

Someone asked why I can’t be happy. It’s because I see things clearly. The lase girl I was with, we got along great and she really liked me, but unlike most mouth breathers, I couldn’t ignore the fact that she disgusted me.

No, you don’t see things clearly. You fancy yourself to be some kind of superior, refined judge of women, the equivalent of a wine connoisseur, but they’re all interchangeable to you. If you were a wine connoisseur, you’d be picking wines because they have a pretty label, never mind the contents of the bottle or whether it goes with the meal you’re eating. You don’t see anyone else’s humanity, only your own. Other people are just insignificant cardboard figures, bit players in the movie of your life. Thanks to the Dunning Kreuger effect, you literally can’t see that the other “mouth breathers” on this thread, who love and appreciate women on many different levels, have been running rings around you intellectually and morally.

Also, video games and porn don’t count as “interests”. Those are activities of passive consumption. As everyone else on this thread has been saying, try getting a hobby that challenges you, makes you into a better person, and requires some thought. There are thousands to choose from. I have next to zero free time, thanks to having young toddlers in the household, but I still manage to hike, sail, garden, ski, play tennis, paint watercolors, rollerblade, and volunteer with Habitat for Humanity and local trails organizations. The list will expand again as they get older.

There’s been tons of suggestions and good advice in this thread, but you’re too stubborn/lazy/self-pitying/addicted to your own superiority to make the effort to change yourself to attract the kind of women you want. Enjoy your life of porn and intermittent, unsatisfying sex with the cardboard cutouts.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

I actually opened an otter who passed away several weeks ago the other day. All his outward symptoms were being treated very well – seriously, great job to the rescue and rehabilitation team – but his condition never reeeeeally improved, just some of the symptoms. He didn’t survive general anaesthetic when the crew tried to get an MRI. Opened him up and found lesions all over his heart. :/ Sent all kinds of samples for analysis. I’m guessing protozoan infection. Super disappointed though. Months of work were invested in him. I’d had a lot of fun grooming him, which he’d never entirely regained the ability to do. I would have loved to see him released.

duckbunny
6 years ago

Argenti: He/him/his for preference, or they/them/theirs.

Undfreeland: I didn’t ask why you were not happy. I asked why you believe happiness to be impossible. Every time someone claims to be happy, you decide that they’re lying, or deluded, or living in such a different context that their situation can have no bearing on yours. Why?

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Not caught up, but my bio dad is 5’9″. Just saying.

Kim
Kim
6 years ago

Also, video games … don’t count as “interests”. Those are activities of passive consumption.

I have to disagree with this bit. Some of my favourite memories of time spent with guys I dated was playing video games together. The key there being we were playing cooperatively together. Except this one kinect game which involved pig racing, which was more competitive. It’s making me smiling remembering how hilarious that was.

Wetherby
Wetherby
6 years ago

I really think it’s amusing that some claiming that people have served in the military for economic reasons means they weren’t mercenaries. That is precisely what it means. Were they to serve out of a sense of duty and honor, that would not be.

You’re not seriously arguing that soldiers should work for free, are you? Of course people serve in the military for economic reasons – they have to support themselves and sometimes their families, if they have them. How does that make them “mercenaries”?

@kittehserf, i missed this early, “suddenly squired square jaw and fit body.” I never claimed anything to the contrary. Also, I never claimed to have a square jaw. I have a decent jaw line. I don’ have a double-chin or flat face. If I had a square jaw, my life would be much better.

Why? I’m willing to bet a great deal that if you surveyed a hundred women chosen completely at random, “the shape of a man’s jawline” wouldn’t rank very highly amongst their reasons for choosing an ideal mate. As has already been amply demonstrated.

Someone asked why I can’t be happy. It’s because I see things clearly.

On the evidence of this thread, a great many people see things a lot more clearly than you do, and yet they appear to be considerably happier.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Catching up from last night:

I really think it’s amusing that some claiming that people have served in the military for economic reasons means they weren’t mercenaries. That is precisely what it means. Were they to serve out of a sense of duty and honor, that would not be.

So it’s OK to be a killer* for Western Capitalism if you have a deep dedication to The Cause, but it’s not OK to be one if Western Capitalism has dealt you a shitty hand in life? And most of all it’s highly moral and evolved to benefit from, nay, plan to exploit, Western Capitalism while judging the people who keep the system afloat?

Gotcha. I’m glad that a clear-minded thinker like und was able to point out the errors of my ways. How morally compromised I am, still loving my husband despite his checkered history of poverty and soldiering! How misdirected I am, criticizing the economic and political forces that drive our country into war and our people into the arms of the warmongers, instead of laying the blame on the backs of those who carry the weapons! I am a veritable Ayn Rand demi-villain, devoid of rational thought as I bumble over the toes of those true visionary men who are the future of an objectively perfect world!

Poor little me, thinking that working to change our winner/cheater-take-everything financial system and our government-to-the-highest-bidder would help eliminate the need for profitable wars that protect corporate interests. Sweet, deluded Flying Mouse, who thinks criticizing people for their choices is secondary to investing in people so that those choices won’t be as attractive or even necessary.

This has been a harsh schooling I have received. The only things that will soothe my bruised ego are a blueberry cobbler doughnut and an iced coffee. Oh, look ::munchmunchmunchsluuuurrp::

*gross simplification. Gotta keep it at und’s level.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

@Buttercup Q. Skullpants – Oh, I tip my hat to you on potty-training twins. I don’t remember my daughter as being particularly arduous to train (I could have repressed the horrors, though, I’ll admit it) but my son took forever . I think it was about six months before he finally learned to separate the urge to go from the actual act of going, and reacted accordingly. It was a great day when I finally realized I’d gone a whole week without doing any emergency laundry or hauling out the carpet cleaner. I hope similar joy lies in your future soon 🙂

kittehserf
6 years ago

I’m with kittehserf.* I think our new troll is looking a lot like Mr Al. The pretension. The story that starts simple but becomes increasingly Byzantine without actually becoming interesting. The weird shifts in ideology, like he doesn’t quite understand the position he’s supposed to represent. The alternating self-pity and self-righteousness. As mentioned, the fixation on Pecunium ans Cassandrakitty… Yeah, just might be.

* Btw, don’t remember if I wished you happy birthday, kittehs, but if I didn’t – Happy Birthday!

Thanks, Sir Bodsworth! 🙂

I think you’ve coined a new term for trolls walls o’ text – Byzantine Boredom.

marinerachel, poor otter. 🙁

Crustyundies wouldn’t have a hope as a Neanderthal. They were smart. He’d have sat around the cave whining that he was expected to get off his arse and join the hunt, when his father could perfectly well have done it for him.

So it’s OK to be a killer* for Western Capitalism if you have a deep dedication to The Cause, but it’s not OK to be one if Western Capitalism has dealt you a shitty hand in life?

Fanatics in the army! Can’t have too many of ’em. Especially since they refuse to be paid, because it’s mercenary to take any money for such work.

My husband’s 5′ 7″ in his bare feet. His jaw is anything but square. Neither has he ever been Mr Putting On TheCharm, let alone Mr Putting On The Fake Charm. Yet somehow he’s had a fair few people who he’s loved and who’ve loved him, over the years, and is suffering no lacka sex these days, even though he has zero cash. Truly amazing.

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

Did you do anything nice for your birthday, kittehserf?

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

@marinerachel – I missed your otter story earlier. Poor little guy, I’m sorry he never got a chance to make it back to the wild.

twincats
twincats
6 years ago

Wowza! Gonna do my part to see if this thread can get to 2,000 comments.

WRT attraction, I think at least some of it can be ascribed to nature/nurture. We have inborn tendencies to find certain traits attractive in a sexual partner. They can be pretty easily overridden and are subject to fad and fashion (bustles, anyone?). Lots of people find that their preferences morph over time as well; I know mine have.

So it’s too bad that und is stuck with only being attracted by what’s considered beautiful now in western society by mainstream media. Broadening one’s horizons goes a long way toward expanding what one considers attractive but I guess und isn’t interested in being interested by anything but the current beauty paradigm.

kittehserf
6 years ago

Flying Mouse, it was a very quiet birthday (but that’s good!) both sides of the veil. I’d had birthday cake at work the day before, which was a really nice surprise, a pretty card from my sister, a good long chat with her on the phone, and the piece de resistance across the veil was … two days of scything lawns with Mr K!

(He really knows how to show a girl a good time.)

😀

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

“Men who’re a mere 5ft10 never get laid. It are a fact.”

*ponders* hey pecunium? Aren’t you about 5’10”? Gotta be since you’ve got a couple inches on me when I’m in my boots and you aren’t as tall as the BF…so that sounds about right…

(Yeah, quoting Cassandra not troll boy, her version was more concise)

Duckbunny — he/him/his, got it 🙂

Poor otter…

Totally off topic question, but there are marine bio people around. If I manage to get a breeding pair of Axolotls, think it’d be…workable?…to sell the offspring at cost of shipping plus a couple dollars? I have no desire to breed them for money, but considering the state they’re in in the wild, it seems wrong to own one and not contribute to their numbers. I need to run some tests in a DIY filter tomorrow, but I think I can house one once the 55g is cycled and I can steal some cultured goodies from it (including sand, I knew there was a reason I had lots of it in there!). 55g should be breaking down into nitrite today-ish, or so, first to at fishless cycling, but that should happen soon. (Could seed it from the 29g, but I killed the damned hair algae when I scrubbed it and am NOT reintroducing that shit!)

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

Oh and Und? You do get that there’s this whole wide world of ways to gather information between “torture” and “give milk and cookies” right? Or do you think everyone being interrogated is already known to be a terrorist? (Just how do you think we figure out who the ringleaders, and other persons of interest, are anyways?)

Flying Mouse
Flying Mouse
6 years ago

@kittehserf – 😀

scott1139
scott1139
6 years ago

undfreeland said:
@contrapanglos, everyone uses everyone else. I’m just honest with myself about it.

Thanks for calling me a liar, asshole.

There are many people whose services I use, directly or indirectly. However, that doesn’t mean I view or treat them as merely objects and means to ends. Stop universalizing your preferences and behaviors.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Still catching up. Sorry if I get ninja’d a lot.

everyone uses everyone else. I’m just honest with myself about it.

Stop projecting your shittiness onto everyone else. That simply isn’t true. Most people are actually capable of loving and caring for others. It’s sad that you can’t or won’t care about anyone besides yourself but that doesn’t mean everyone else is the same way.

I really think it’s amusing that some claiming that people have served in the military for economic reasons means they weren’t mercenaries. That is precisely what it means. Were they to serve out of a sense of duty and honor, that would not be.

Wow. You really are a privileged deluded little shit. This is why people are side eying your claims that you’re a liberal. You really don’t seem to understand how things work. Capitalism needs those at the top to be wealthy at the expense of others. It creates an underclass. One of the only ways many people can get out of poverty is to join the military. Desperation drives people to make choices they might not otherwise make. Liberals typically know this. Learn to liberal better. Read some books. A good intro book is The People’s History of the United States by Howard Zinn.

Wahahaha OMG I’m fucking dying, that is the dumbest sex euphemism I have ever heard.

I think he thought it would offend us, but it’s just too stupid to be offensive to me. It’s also not creative enough to be amusing. Couldn’t he have said something like “I would have served my tube steak?” That one always cracks me up.

I don’t really get the square jaw thing either. I mean, are there a few men with square jaws who I think are handsome? Sure. Is it either necessary or preferred in a male sexual partner? No, because people don’t fuck with their jaws.

Two square jawed celebrities I find attractive are Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Viggo Mortensen. Funnily, I find them hotter when they have scruffy beards and longish hair (LOTR and season 2/3 of GoT) because it softens their jawlines a bit.

I’ve seriously never heard a woman put “square jaw” on the top of her list of things she finds hot. It always seems to be guys that worry about this.

pecunium
6 years ago

Undy: @pecunium, I once sat and listened to a guy go on about his war experiences. Fresh back from Afghanistan. I was friends with his girlfriend (who I would totally have taken to bone city) and was hanging out with them when he just started going on about shit.

Cool story bro.

Care to actually talk about the subject, or just intend to present more pretense of world-weary (second hand) experience?

For every person like you, someone in the army so they can have their own little eat, pray, love adventure, there’s someone like him.

You still don’t get it. 1: I know a lot more people who were in the Army (and Marines, and Navy; even Coasties and Zoomies), than you do. 2:you mistake the pieces I shared with you* as dispositive of my time in service, as I said, you are delusional about what being in the military is.

And would it ever occur to you that I actually like my interests?

What interests? Sitting on crap furniture to play video games and drink while you dream of the day your relatives die? or is is the sex with people whom you, “get along great with” though they disgust you?

Because those are all the interests I’ve seen you mention (well there is the occasional foray into self-loathing, induced by fucking people who disgust you, that and the porn; while you wait for people to die while you work on becoming a CPA so you can get rich and bone the hot-bodied chicks who will give meaning to your life. How’s that workin’ out for ya?).

As for sleeping with a woman I find disgusting, sometimes those are the ones that like you, and you think “well, she has big boobs. Maybe it won’t be so bad” and then it really isn’t during. But when that’s not going on they still look terrible. They certainly don’t cause the intoxicating effect of being in the presence of a beutiful woman. They become a testament to you lack of value.

That has to be one of the most pathetic things I’ve ever heard. That’s sad man. You don’t sleep with someone because, “they like you”, and hope that the fucking will change everything else. That’s some fucked up self-image you’ve got.

And yes, it is a testament to your lack of internal value. Dude, if you don’t like the women who are asking you to sex them up, get a bit of lube and take it to Rosie. You’ll feel better for it.

everyone uses everyone else. I’m just honest with myself about it.

Keep whispering that to yourself.

*selected to construct an argument, and prove a point, no less. It’s not like we are buddies, and I’m gonna share the intimate details of my time in service with you. That’s something I share with friends; the sort of people I’d be willing to go to Mozambique to try and find the people who murdered their uncle, or the one’s who were there when I needed them, and didn’t say, “shit dude, can’t help, sorry”. You’ve already explained you don’t have friends. I’m not even sure you have close acquaintances. At best you have people who don’t disgust you; and it seems not many of those.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
6 years ago

“or the one’s who were there when I needed them, and didn’t say, “shit dude, can’t help, sorry””

Grah, I hate that sort of “friend”! Of course, they’re still better than any friends troll boy has had, since you thought you could count on them and he would never dream of doing that to a friend.

Trolly, you want to know what real friends are like? When there was talk of my grandfather going into hospice with maybe a week to go, pecunium was willing to do whatever needed so I could come visit if gramps died, so I could mourn without worrying about imposing on other family members.

As for gramps, the dementia is taking its toll, but he’s doing well otherwise, don’t ask me how an 86 year old man goes from “probably dying of pneumonia” to “you want my jello?” in two days, but he did (and one part of the dementia is hilarious — he’s forgotten not to call me his favorite grandkid in front of my brother!)

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