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Voices of Hatred: A look at the noxious views of six of the speakers at A Voice for Men’s upcoming conference

Curious about the views of the people scheduled to speak at A Voice for Men’s “Men’s Issues” conference next week? Here’s a little video guide. CONTENT WARNING: Domestic violence, rape, incest.

If you’d like to have their quotes in writing for future reference, here’s a transcript of the quotes used in the video. I’ve linked to the source of each quote (or to posts of mine that discuss the quotes in greater detail). Enjoy!

Mike Buchanan has said:

I believe girls learn at a young age that whining gets them what they want, especially from over-indulgent parents who might later wonder why their daughters became Entitlement Princesses. Inevitably these girls continue whining into adolescence and adulthood because they continue to get what they want. It’s up to men to break the cycle …

Men living in houses with cellars can put a sign on the cellar door, ‘The Whine Cellar’, and politely direct whining women towards it. In houses without a cellar, the smallest room in the house – or possibly the garden shed – could be designated ‘The Whine Box’.

Mike Buchanan is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men

Mike Buchanan is a voice of hatred

SOURCE for Buchanan’s quote

Stefan Molyneux has said:

Women who choose the assholes will fucking end this race. They will fucking end this human race, if we don’t start holding them a-fucking-ccountable. … Women who choose assholes guarantee child abuse. Women who choose assholes guarantee criminality, sociopathy. Politicians, all the cold-hearted jerks who run the world came out of the vaginas of women who married assholes.

And I don’t know how to make the world a better place without holding women accountable for choosing assholes. Your dad was an asshole because your mother chose him. Because it works on so many women. If “asshole” wasn’t a great reproductive strategy it would have been gone long ago. Women keep that black bastard flame alive. They cup their hands around it, they protect it with their bodies. They keep the evil of the species going by continually choosing these guys.

If being an asshole didn’t get women, there would be no assholes left. If women chose nice guys over assholes we would have a glorious and peaceful world in one generation. Women determine the personality traits of the men because women choose who to have sex with, and who to have children with, and who to expose those children to. …

Your dad is who he is fundamentally because your mother was willing to fuck him and have you. Willing and eager to fuck the monster. Stop fucking monsters and we get a great world. Keep fucking monsters, we get catastrophes, we get war, we get nuclear weapons, we get national debt, we get incarcerations … Women worship at the feet of the devil and wonder why the world is evil. And then you know what they say? We’re victims!

Stefan Molyneux is a scheduled speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men.

Stefan Molyneux is a voice of hatred

SOURCE for Molyneux’s quote. NOTE: The text above is a more complete version of the slightly truncated quote used in the video, which was edited for clarity, for length, and to remove some repetition.

Erin Pizzey has said:

If you’re referring to Paul’s statement that many or most women fantasize about being taken, I’m sorry but that’s the truth. That doesn’t mean they want to be raped, but it’s a fantasy I think almost all women have. And I think he went on to say that feminists like Andrea Dworkin who were and are so obsessed with rape are really projecting their own unconscious sexual frustration because men don’t give them enough attention. Andrea was a very sad lonely woman like this–I didn’t know her but I knew of her, and I knew Susan Browmiller and you can just read her stuff to see it there.

Erin Pizzey is a scheduled speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men

Erin Pizzey is a voice of hatred

SOURCE of Pizzey’s quote. NOTE: The text above is a complete version of the slightly truncated quote used in the video, which was edited for clarity.

Karen Straughan has written:

I used to live under a young couple with a baby. I’d listen as she followed him from room to room upstairs, stomping, slamming things, throwing things, screaming. After about an hour, he’d eventually hit her, and everything would go quiet. An hour after that, they’d be out with the baby in the stroller, looking perfectly content with each other.

A man I know who has experience with men in abusive relationships would get his clients to answer a questionnaire. Things like, “after the violence, did you have sex?” “If so, how would you rate the sex?” 100% of men in reciprocally abusive relationships said “yes” to the first, and “scorching” to the second.

He also posited that the much-quoted cycle of violence–the build-up, the explosion, the honeymoon period–correlates with foreplay, orgasm and post-coital bliss.

Erin Pizzey called it “consensual violence”, and said in the main, that was the type she’d see at her shelter. It is also the type that results in the most severe injuries in women, surprise surprise, likely because our “never EVER hit a woman” mentality has those men waiting until they completely lose control of their emotions before giving their women what they’re demanding.

Karen Straughan is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men

Karen Straughan is a voice of hatred

SOURCE for Straughan’s quote.

Warren Farrell has said:

The worst aspect of dating from the perspective of many men is how dating can feel to a man like robbery by social custom …

Evenings of paying to be rejected can feel like a male version of date rape.

If a man ignoring a woman’s verbal “no” is committing date rape, then a woman who says “no” with her verbal language but “yes” with her body language is committing date fraud. …

We have forgotten that before we began calling this date rape and date fraud, we called it exciting.

Somehow, women’s romance novels are not titled He Stopped When I Said “No”. They are, though, titled Sweet Savage Love, in which the woman rejects the hand of her gentler lover who saves her from the rapist and marries the man who repeatedly and savagely rapes her. …

It is important that a woman’s “noes” be respected and her “yeses” be respected. And it is also important when her nonverbal “yeses” … conflict with those verbal “noes” that the man not be put in jail for choosing the “yes” over the “no.” He might just be trying to become her fantasy.

Warren Farrell is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men

Warren Farrell is a voice of hatred

SOURCE for Farrell’s quote.

Warren Farrell has said:

Incest is like a magnifying glass. In some circumstances it magnifies the beauty of the relationship, and in others it magnifies the trauma. …

When I get my most glowing positive cases, 6 out of 200, the incest is part of the family’s open, sensual style of life, wherein sex is an outgrowth of warmth and affection. …

[M]illions of people who are now refraining from touching, holding, and … caressing their children, when that is really a part of a caring, loving expression, are repressing the sexuality of a lot of children and themselves. Maybe this needs repressing, and maybe it doesn’t.

Warren Farrell is a speaker at the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit organized by A Voice for Men

Warren Farrell is a voice of hatred

SOURCE for Farrell’s quote. I have removed a word that appears in the original interview but that Farrell insists he did not say.

Paul Elam has said:

In the name of equality and fairness, I am proclaiming October to be Bash a Violent Bitch Month.

I’d like to make it the objective for the remainder of this month, and all the Octobers that follow, for men who are being attacked and physically abused by women – to beat the living shit out of them. I don’t mean subdue them, or deliver an open handed pop on the face to get them to settle down. I mean literally to grab them by the hair and smack their face against the wall till the smugness of beating on someone because you know they won’t fight back drains from their nose with a few million red corpuscles.

And then make them clean up the mess.

Now, am I serious about this?

No. Not because it’s wrong. It’s not wrong.

But it isn’t worth the time behind bars or the abuse of anger management training that men must endure if they are uppity enough to defend themselves from female attackers.

Paul Elam is the central organizer of the “Men’s Issues” conference in Detroit, and the founder of A Voice for Men

Paul Elam is a voice of hatred

SOURCE for Elam’s quote.

For a detailed look at the homophobia of Anne Cools, another speaker at the conference, see here.

Big thanks to everyone who helped with the video!

 

 

 

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Posted on June 20, 2014, in a voice for men, a woman is always to blame, antifeminism, antifeminist women, erin pizzey, evil women, excusing abuse, FemRAs, GirlWritesWhat, imaginary oppression, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, paul elam, playing the victim, rape, rape culture, warren farrell and tagged , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 869 Comments.

  1. Wow, those quotes are really messed up and definitely hateful. There’s no need for any conference of this sort – none whatsoever. What men need to do, I think, is stop buying into the warrior/savior/prince/king narrative, dismantle systemic misogyny that is embodied institutionally, and start listening deeply to women and indigenous cultures before we completely destroy the planet. So far, all I’ve seen from the so-called “Men’s Rights Movement” organizations has been counter-Feminist rhetoric that’s just another form of denial. For speaking this way, I’m often called “gay” or a “pussy” by other men… so that’s all the proof that I need to know that nothing had really changed and that there’s still a lot of work to do. It won’t happen at one of these conferences – that’s for sure. Peace.

  2. What the Fuck did I just read?

    I’d seen references to Elizabeth, but not found the thread (I was away that weekend).

    Not English. Possessed of a familiar set of idisyncratic linguistic quirks; a level of very short sentences, and overly polite semi self-abnegations. The pity party at the end was very reminiscent of someone recent (Erin?).

    The level of “get outta here” was unbelievable (private schools, where everyone got along, being polite always leads to people coming to understanding).

    I esp. liked the logical matter/anti-matter of her father.

    P1: Denying custody to a parent = oppression
    P2: Her father was, therefore oppressed.

    C: Ergo “Justice” requires her father be given custody: thus oppressing her father’s ex-wife.

    So, we see that Elizabeth thinks oppression is just ducks, so long as it’s a woman being oppressed (using Elizabeth’s definition of oppression).

  3. Sorry I got confused. The charity she mentioned was Refuge. I’m sorry

  4. Wow, I cannot believe what I just heard. That’s insane. These people say these things without even thinking they sound crazy, that’s how insane the MRM echo chamber is.

  5. That completely misrepresents the conference and those speaking there… who is trying to insight hate here? Well its you… if you are saying that men are not welcome unless they say what you deem acceptable…If you dont support masculinism how can equality be achieved through a biased lens? Double standards abound… lets have a slut walk to celebrate.

  6. WTF did I just read? Is GWW sockpuppeting as Kingfillins?

  7. wewereemergencies

    Also Steph no ableism here please and thank you.

  8. Somebody stop me before I take a red pen to all of Kingfillins’ spelling & punctuation errors!

    That completely misrepresents the conference and those speaking there… who is trying to insight hate here?

    Oooh, I know the answer to that one – that would be the MRAs.

    Well its you…

    Erm, no. Citation needed.

    if you are saying that men are not welcome unless they say what you deem acceptable…

    Where does David say that? Or are you complaining that sexist, racist, ableist, rape-apolist & trolling commenters of any gender are unwelcome, even if they’re men? Why would that be inciting hatred? Surely that is telling the inciters of hatred that they are wrong?

    If you dont support masculinism how can equality be achieved through a biased lens?

    FTFY

    Double standards abound… lets have a slut walk to celebrate.

    Yep, double standards abound. And you obviously do not understand what a slut walk is.

  9. That completely misrepresents the conference and those speaking there…

    I’m not sure what you’re responding to. To borrow a phrase, can you be more specific professor of lies?

  10. That completely misrepresents the conference and those speaking there…

    No, it doesn’t. Look again. Those are things the conference speakers actually believe. This is not taken out of context, this is not misinterpreted. This is who they are. Congratulations for your choice of allies.

    who is trying to insight hate here?

    Did you mean:

    insight into hate

    insight rate

    incite hate

    Well its you…

    Did you mean:

    Well is you

    Weaning its young

    Well, it’s you

    if you are saying that men are not welcome unless they say what you deem acceptable…

    *Sigh* David is a man. I am a man (punch). Many commenters here are men. We are quite welcome here. Actually, men in general are welcome in most places, that’s part of how male privilege works.

    How to recognize entitlement born of male privilege: tell a man he’s not welcome somewhere, lean back and enjoy the arglebargle about men being opressed and not welcome unless they bow down to the gynocracy and blah blah.

    Then again, misogynists, like other bigots, should not feel welcome in most places.

    If you dont support masculinism how can equality be achieved through a biased lens?

    If I understand your phrasing correctly, you are under the impression that in order to achieve equality, we must seek to perpetuate harmful gender roles and gender dichotomies, instead of dismantling them and just letting everyone be what they are, not what they’re led to believe they should be. Which is part of what feminism is trying to achieve. The MRM is all about not challenging any existing beliefs and structural hierarchies based on gender, which is why its status as a ”movement” is shaky at best.

    I am a man who doesn’t support masculinism, because I have a pretty good idea of what is meant by ”masculinism”. Hint: It’s something disgusting.

    Double standards abound… lets have a slut walk to celebrate.

    Lolwut

    BTW, what’s with all the ellipses? I guess I should be grateful they are not the regular two-dot kind, but still.

  11. Blarg, nice try trolly, but fuck off with your “masculinism” — we hate the men’s rights movement, because it’s no such thing — it’s a movement of misogyny and hatred, not one focused on men’s issues. Don’t try to claim masculinists under your hateful banner.

    To everyone else — masculinist is the label adopted by, near as I can tell, the people actually working in men’s issues such as the suicide rate — I’ve yet to see one be a hateful asshole, I have seen them distance themselves from MRAs. I’m sure asshole ones exist, but they seem to be decent people whose views largely align with feminism, but are focused on how toxic masculinity hurts men (which, being men, is, imo, a good way to go about doing feminism)

  12. Anarchonist:

    No, it doesn’t. Look again. Those are things the conference speakers actually believe. This is not taken out of context, this is not misinterpreted.

    Ah, you appear to have forgotten that in magical MRA topsy-turvy land, quoting verbatim several paragraphs of real things that people have said with a highly visible link to the sources in all-caps is – in fact – misinterpreting them.

  13. emilygoddess - MOD

    No, it doesn’t. Look again. Those are things the conference speakers actually believe. This is not taken out of context, this is not misinterpreted.

    Yes, but they didn’t say those things at the conference, therefore it’s irrelevant. Like most of the MRM, it makes sense as long as you compartmentalize everything.

  14. I find 2 of these statements strangely contradicting. On one hand we have one blaming women for men being assholes because women allow themselves to breed with assholes. Because obviously you cant be responsible for your own behavior, it was womens fault somehow, right? Of course, makes perfect sense. (rolls eyes)
    Then, on the other hand we have this dangerously insane opinion, that domestic violence should be tolerated by the woman and society because it helps men relieve stress before their violent urges explode even worse on the women. It seems the only thing they’d agree on is everything men do is the female genders fault in some way.
    At last, the one thing all mra activists seem to agree on. :D
    (excuse me while I wash my brain out)

  15. While a lot of the things quoted are quite terrible, quotemining like this will always show people in the worst possible light.

    Michael Buchanan is essentially advocating asking women (politely) not to bitch at you. If you ask him, he’ll probably favour men visiting the Whine Cellar (pretty sure that was a joke) if they feel inclined to whine.

    Stefan Molyneux is essentially claiming men share their fathers’ personality traits, a claim i’d be quite willing to look into, and that women seem to have a preference for fucking arseholes, which appears to be true on its face. I honestly don’t mind women fucking arseholes, for very obvious reasons, but i’d like to recommend contraception if they do.

    Erin Pizzey started one of the first womens’ shelthers and is a woman. One might think all this is great evidence to her not being a misogynist, but for anyone who’s still doubting, in her quote, she’s really not saying anything the popularity of 50 shades of Grey doesn’t back up. She also expressly states that this doesn’t mean women want to be raped. She’d be quite stupid if she didn’t, because the one thing that will certainly stop you from being raped is wanting to be raped (I’m going to get so much hate for this).

    Karen Straughan, with whose work I am most familiar, peppers just about everything she says with caveats and nuance, to the point where one of those likely preceded and followed the quoted statement. Also, you’ll notice that the first paragraph is an anecdote (and therefore not inherently hateful) and the rest are quotes and data from other people. How the fuck are you passing this off as her opinion? For the very last part; the people who bottle things up ARE the people who one day bring an assault rifle to school and murder everyone. Surely that’s quite clear by now.

    Warren Farrell is a very cunfused and very confusing man (by the way, i noticed your “context” in the other article amounts to roughly 2 pages very far into a 488 page volume.) Also, notice that

    “If a man ignoring a woman’s verbal “no” is committing date rape, then a woman who says “no” with her verbal language but “yes” with her body language is committing date fraud.”

    does in fact require the woman to be saying yes with her body, arguably the misunderstanding the kind of rape discussed here is based on. However, I do think it’s very poorly put down (easily misunderstood without context) IF that is what he meant. Then again, when he put it down, he had 312 pages of context in front of it. Some parts of it look like rape apology, which is, of course, reprehensible.

    The second quote is downright creepy, though he is only talking about 3% of what I assume are his patients who apparently… enjoy… incest? In all the other cases, he does say it’s tramuatizing, with which I would agree.

    Paul Elam is advocating violence ONLY in self defence. So unless a woman is actually pounding the shit out of you (i.e: a violent bitch) nothing is to be done. I don’t agree with that completely, but I can see how someone who has seen a lot of domestic abuse towards men might.

    “Detroit is a testament to masculinity.” Is a reference to the city’s past and present (and let’s face it, the fact that detroit is close to both the US and Canada), it has nothing to do with hatred of women, or marginalising women, as is claimed in this video.

    Even if all of this were the most insane misogyny, that wouldn’t be a reason to forbid the conference, unless you intend to be equally militant against everyone who’s against another group of people, (and even then you’d be on shaky ground with freedom of expression) in which case radical feminists should give you all the reasons you need to never have another feminist conference. Similarly, if I can simply take a bunch of quotes from feminists and claim this is what feminism stands for, I can go on radical feminist forums and come back within 2 minutes with enough quotes to last me lifetime (a lot of them are closed for exactly that reason). You don’t even have to go on radical forums to find them, in fact, here’s a pretty link:

    She’ll be overseeing the wholesale slaughter of men and she’ll have the help of RadFem Hub.

    Finally, Let’s not forget that it’s been almost half a century since the SCUM manifesto was published by a deranged misandrist (coincidentally, a cursory glance at some of the things recently published on this site turned up an admiring mention of Valerie Solanas’ name.) and we have yet to see something similar from men.

    I really hope I haven’t made misspelled anything or I’m sure some dimwit will base his entire rebuttal on that.

  16. I seem to have accidentally posted the entire playlist rather than only the vid I intended to. (The last one.) I’m going to blame this on the stamp of my lowly origins. ;)

  17. Wow, it’s really amazing how you can just minimize every horrible thing the speakers at the AVFM conference said (and who are considered prominent leaders in the movement) while simultaneously trying to bash feminists using some random comments from a message board and dead Valerie Solanas.

  18. Oh yay, another necrotroll.

    The conference already happened, AVfM got reported on. Anybody who said anything negative got insulted by JB and Elam. It’s over.

    I’ll leave the detailed rebuttal to more practiced Mammotheers, but seriously dude, why bother? Cherry-picking radfems who represent the fringe of feminist thought is not the same as showcasing pieces of representatives of AVfM that are actually more hateful towards women in context than excerpted like this. And trying to tell the readership of a site devoted to dissecting the arguments of these misogynists that we aren’t familiar enough with their work to adequately understand the nuance is pretty laughable given that almost all of AVfM’s talking points regarding feminism are based on a complete lack of understanding of feminism as it exists today.

  19. @Blauwvoet:

    Finally, Let’s not forget that it’s been almost half a century since the SCUM manifesto was published by a deranged misandrist (coincidentally, a cursory glance at some of the things recently published on this site turned up an admiring mention of Valerie Solanas’ name.) and we have yet to see something similar from men.

    Bash a Violent Bitch Month, and pretty much anything else written by Paul Elam. The manifestos by Elliot Rodger and Thomas Ball. Not to mention every long rambling manifesto in the MRM comment sections.

  20. Zombie Solanas strikes again! I’m starting to think MRAs think this movie is a documentary:

    It makes about as much sense as using Fifty Shades of Grey as a citation for why violence against women is acceptable.

  21. Karen Straughan, with whose work I am most familiar, peppers just about everything she says with caveats and nuance, to the point where one of those likely preceded and followed the quoted statement.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA,

    I stopped reading right there because I was about to piss myself laughing.

    OK, chief, you go right on believing that.

  22. @hellkell:

    The wonderful thing is that you can click on the big SOURCE link in the OP and see exactly waht “caveats and nuance” preceded and followed the quote. Unsurprisingly, none, unless you consider doubling down “caveats and nuance.”

  23. It’s more like she peppers everything she says with bullshit and more bullshit with a side of bullshit sauce, but I guess that’s what passes for nuance with her subliterate fanboys.

  24. Now I only wish that 50 Shades of Grey thing would go away forever.

    More so.

  25. No more hateful than the insane shit posted at Radfem Hub. You know, where teachers talk about how much they loathe their male students, giving them wrong answers to questions and/or never calling on them? Or getting to the point where ‘we’ can rid ourselves of baby boys through what is essentially eugenics? So we can live in a blissful world without men? You’ve got a lot of hate in you, too. #notyourshield

  26. Livvie, I’m not sure that “the horrible stuff said by the speakers at a conference organized by the most influential men’s rights web site is no worse than the worst stuff from feminists we’ve been able to find” is quite the brilliant rebuttal that you think it is.

  27. Why the #notyourshield? What does this post have to do with gamergate? Something tells me “livvie” is a dude posing as a woman to trick us.

  28. Seen as none of us say any such things while the most influential MR organisation actually does? Yeah, not equivalent.

  29. Hey Livvie, here’s a thought that’ll strain your brain: Radfem Hub, apart from being out of action for the last two years, was a tiny minority, not just of feminists but of radical feminists.

    Everything hateful, all the extremist shit here is mainstream Men’s Rights Movement. There is nothing else to it. Hating women is all they exist to do.

    Want to name any radical feminist mass murderers? You won’t, because there aren’t any. There are no radfem Sodinis or Lepines or Rogers.

    Fuck off now, there’s a good little feMRA.

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