Paul Elam to A Voice for Men conference goers: Don’t say terrible things about women in public, because someone might hear you


Let’s say, hypothetically, that you run a site that appeals to raving misogynists given to launching into violent anti-woman rants at the drop of a hat. And let’s just say that you have gone to great trouble to organize a conference that is designed to play down the fact that a significant amount of your fanbase is made up of raving misogynists given to launching into violent anti-woman rants at the drop of a hat.

Well, you probably shouldn’t post a public announcement warning the raving misogynists who will be attending your conference to refrain from launching into violent anti-woman rants at the drop of a hat because someone might hear them. Because the fact that you feel it necessary to issue such a warning is kind of a giant clue that a significant number of the conference attendees are raving misogynists given to launching into anti-woman rants at the drop of a hat.

I bring this up because Paul Elam posted just such a warning on his site last night in a post that he labeled “Important Message for AVFM Conference Ticket Holders.”

[T]here will be ideological opponents to the MHRM, including some members of the media, present at the event. Some will be looking for anything they can to hurt us with. They will be listening, eavesdropping, and if they can, gathering things to harm us with.

For that reason, ANYONE sitting around trash-talking women, men, making violent statements, even jokingly, will be brought to the attention of security who will issue ONE warning (or less). After that, they will be directed by security to leave. There are no exceptions.

Please, for all here who are attending, keep this in mind with everything you do and say. Even at after-hours social events, if you hear anyone saying anything that can be used against us, or that makes our gathering toxic, pull them aside politely and say, “Hey, you are hurting us with this. If you want to hang with this group you have to stop it.”

Oh, I suppose I should acknowledge that technically Elam also warned his attendees not to “trash-talk” men either, but the only kinds of men that ever get “trash-talked” on A Voice for Men are men that Elam and his cronies have decided have shown too much respect for women.

I’ve never run across this sort of warning at any other conference I’ve been to, or read about. I’m guessing that when the American Society of Cataract & Refractive Surgery holds its annual trade show it doesn’t have to warn attendees not to bad-mouth their sworn enemies: Ear, Nose and Throat specialists. Or that the Electronic Transactions Association has to specifically forbid its convention-goers from publicly threatening to kill people who still like to pay with cash.

Maybe they do. Maybe they’re just a bit more discreet about it.

At least one of AVFM’s misogynistic fans wasn’t thrilled by the ban on overt women-hating rants.

In the comments to Elam’s post, someone called MGTOW-man complained that,

Of course I understand why attendees can’t be honest about women and men while at venue but what is to stop those ideologues from cherry-picking and distorting things said on AVfM? What is the difference?

Also, bummer! Isn’t part of the reason mhra’s are gathering…to learn more about each other, confirm similarities, discuss philosophies and potential solutions, and forge bonds, etc—especially during socializing time? It will be excruciatingly hard to do this if attendees lips must be sealed.

Will attendees have to take their talk elsewhere if/when they need to be honest but in which outsiders obliviously cry ” hate” because they do not want the truth to be told?

How come outsiders will be allowed in socializing time? Will attendees be allowed any time to gather WITHOUT snooping idiots probing for things to be mean and clueless?

I feel for these poor fellows, trying to come up with topics of conversation that don’t involve how much women suck.

In the comments here on We Hunted the Mammoth, Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III has offered some suggestions as to what AVFM conference goerscan can talk about if they can’t talk shit about women:

  • the weather
  • incomprehensible poster design
  • the weather
  • correct etiquette for eating cold stew from a can
  • the weather
  • hey do you think Warren Farrell is related to Colin Farrell or is it just a coincidence
  • tie knots — the Windsor vs the Esmay
  • ellipses and the rule of two
  • why all women are bloodsucking monsters. I mean the weather! The weather! Shit.

Hope that helps!

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on June 20, 2014, in a voice for men, evil women, facepalm, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, paul elam and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 154 Comments.

  1. “Why are hurricanes named after women?”

    “Hurricanes are not named. Tropical storms are named, and they retain their given name if they develop into a hurricane. And, no, they aren’t all named after women. About 50% of tropical storms are named after men. I hereby conclude that you are a mindless moron who couldn’t spend 5 minutes googling Hurricane Naming before cracking a sexist joke”.

    (Yes, I DO have a citation for this:


    I recently posted a comment on AVfM again and I feel like a traitor because I really like some of the people here. It seems I still have some issues with feminism (though I still don’t think I can call myself an MRA because I haven’t done any sort of meaningful Men’s Rights Activism). Hopefully, you guys will properly shoot them down when I decide to post them.

    @Louise McOrmond-Plummer

    If Tom Golden’s youtube channel and interviews are any indication, his lecture is going to be about how men process grief in a much different way than women (from what I understood men tend to keep themselves occupied) and about how the current psychology field is ill-equipped to handle it. He is basically going to argue for a more work/activity-based grieving process for men.

  2. “So a black woman, a Mexican woman, and a Jewish woman are walking down the street.

    …She’s on her way to lecture about intersectionality.”

  3. Phoenician in a time of Romans

    Lensman: I hereby conclude that you are a mindless moron who couldn’t spend 5 minutes googling Hurricane Naming before cracking a sexist joke”.

    I think the anti-jokes are funnier if you imagine yourself delivering them absolutely straight-faced at a bunch of mouth-breathing MRA-types beside themselves with frustration at you missing the point of the misogynist setup line. No lecture needed.

  4. @jodie:
    It’s like the racists in the USA who think you can’t be a racist if you’re not using ethnic slurs. As if a handful of reprehensible words is all that constitutes prejudice and discrimination. I think a lot of the AVfM crowd will honestly think they’re out of the woods if they avoid rape jokes and try not to call anybody “cunt” or “slut”. Once again, their utter lack of self-awareness is the one good quality they have.

  5. @Phoenician in a time of Romans

    OK, I got it, like this?

    “What do women and screen doors have in common?”
    “Inevitably insects will bang on them if the wind is too hard”

  6. @Phoenician:
    I think a “Heal Red-piller” spell would need to have a fist-bump as its gestural component. ;)

  7. @lensman:
    Yeah, that’s the right idea – take the assumption of woman-hating in the initial setup and completely no-sell it.

    “What’s the first thing a woman does when she gets out of the battered wives’ shelter?”
    “Find a good supportive counsellor and install high-quality locks on her doors and windows.”

  8. God only knows, Kitteh, though I imagine it’s probably what Pizzey thinks is a witty reheating of the “feminists don’t shave and are too ugly to get a man” thing.

    Argh, I just sprained my eyes rolling them!

    Also, “Men’s Unique Way of Healing”…I must admit my curiosity is piqued.

    Band-aids are for wimps!

  9. See, I’m thinking that’s one way it’ll go down.
    The other way is this:

    [stage, bar. Smoke curls around a low ceiling. Glasses clink together]
    “So, hey, I was just wondering if any of you guys ever noticed how the sun only shines on some days”
    “Huh? Wassat, Steve?”
    “It’s just, y’know, the… weather. The sun only ever shines on some days and all the other poor days just get rain. Think about deserts for a second… No clouds. The sky doesn’t cover up around there. What’s so special about sand, man? How come I have to look at fucking sun-teasers all day witb enough low level cloud coverage to block every trace of blue sky? I didn’t deserve that cirriform haunting me.”
    “Yeah man I know what you mean! All men deserve the right to see the naked, vulnerable … sky. Probably through some kind of high powered telescope”
    “Fuck dude, I tried that and I ended up with a restraining order… All the sky ever does to me is rain on me. Bunch of evaporative sluts”

  10. “Don’t like the look of those clouds. We might be in for some more nasty weather. My car copped some hail damage the other day -”
    “FUCK YOU! Not all clouds hail on things! Can’t clouds just be clouds without you hating them!? And what about all the clouds that never rap- I mean hail! You mis-cloud-ist!”

  11. Say, does this mean I’ve been misandering (or is it misweathering?) all day ‘cos it’s been raining?

    You beaut!

  12. SmokingDodongo

    Is my brain addled by too much graveyard shift and not enough caffeine or does the list of acceptable topics sound kinda like something from a Welcome to Noght Vale broadcast? Maybe it’s the repetition of “the weather the weather the weather” but for whatever reason I read that whole thing in Cecil’s voice.

  13. Phoenician in a time of Romans

    OK, I got it, like this?

    “What do women and screen doors have in common?”
    “Inevitably insects will bang on them if the wind is too hard”

    That’s good, @lensman.

    One thing that might be useful is trying to avoid absurdist humor in doing an anti-joke. That’s not easy when the setup leaves you little alternative to a crude or misogynist line other than surrealism, but strivingally’s comment about completely no-selling it is dead on – it should be, at the first level, completely serious and straight.

    Q: “How is a brunette who dyed her hair blonde like an airplane?”

    Crude A: “They both have a black box”.
    Absurdist A: “Neither of them is a duck.”
    Anti-joke: “They both use pleasant female tones to convey important information, as experience shows this works well in gaining people’s attention.”

  14. It’s very good to see all this useful information on dog training.

    I have a question however. How do you train an older dog?

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