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Fundraiser to send Sworebytheprecious to Detroit to report on you-know-what

Not literally a dark horse, but close enough.

Not literally a dark horse, but close enough.

Sworebytheprecious, a regular in the AgainstMensRights subreddit, is trying to raise money so she can get to Detroit to report on that A Voice for Men conference you might have heard about. And you can help!

Here’s her pitch, from her GoFundMe page:

Lissie (akaSworebythePrecious) wants to get to Detroit to report on the convention held by A Voice for Men and Paul Elam. She also wants to start up a website for Project Dark Horse. Who wants to help?

Our goal is $1000. We’ll be posting receipts. We want to rent a car, get a room, and get a plane ticket. I also want to talk to some of the protesters who were bothered last Saturday.

So far she’s raised a little over $200, but I’m sure we can help her raise a lot more than that. If she goes over $1000, the money will go to charity or to help build a website for Project Dark Horse, dedicated to exposing the bullshit of the Men’s Rights movement in general and AVFM in particular. More details on Dark Horse here, and on her fundraiser here on the GoFundMe page.

 

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Posted on June 14, 2014, in a voice for men, announcements, MRA, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 99 Comments.

  1. Anon, you can message her privately on reddit, though you have to sign up for an account to do that.

  2. then Judgy rescinded her offer

    Of course. And they’ll probably give the excuse that threats were made.

    After years and years downplaying every threat a feminist ever got, they’re sure making hay of threats now. .

  3. Hi David, thanks for the information. Unfortunately, I prefer not to go through reddit for various reasons. I hope she’ll see this and comment with some other way!

  4. Anon: you can also message her through the fundraiser website.

  5. I can’t find the one I was looking for on psychological conditions, but here are two on medical conditions that seem to be full-text accessible:

    http://www.peh-med.com/content/9/1/10

    and

    http://pmr.cuni.cz/Data/Files/PragueMedicalReport/pmr_110_2009_02/pmr2009a0016.pdf

    Besides the fact that most psychiatric/psychological disorders are quite modern, and the terms cannot be back-translated to the language of historical figures, there is also the issue of:
    – need to establish that symptom duration is correct
    – need to ensure that alternative diagnoses are discounted (not bloody possible to do when your “patient” is long dead)

    Standard clinical practice is also that the clinician needs to interact with the client. Obviously, this is not possible for deceased persons of interest.

    There are also the following cultural influences:
    – writings that are pro- the person will have suppressed negative behaviours whereas writings that are anti- the person will emphasize them, and may also suggest ones that didn’t actually occur
    – there is evidence that psychiatric disorders are strongly influenced by current cultural mores, for example catatonic schizophrenia was one of the more common schizophrenias observed in women in the 19th century and there are clinicians now who have never seen this, also hysteria was a common diagnosis for women (with consequent uterus removal as the cure). Given this, and that few mental conditions were even recognised in the late 19th century, it is surely unwise to diagnose a 20th/21st century disorder onto a long-dead person.
    – timing of onset is not well known for many people. Age at first onset is an important marker for some conditions, and this information is likely not well recorded in the historical record.

    In conclusion, any psychiatric/psychological diagnosis given to a historical figure is heavily suspect. As is any medical diagnosis (try linking diagnoses based on the four humours to current diseases).

  6. Whoot! Thanks, pallygirl! Links bookmarked!

    Too true about the medical diagnosis business. Even for someone recent, changes in diagnosis and knowledge over the intervening years shows up. F’rex, it was standard, and still is, to say Prince Albert died of typhoid. Typhoid was much-diagnosed then, and even though his symptoms as described don’t match it at all well, nobody’s any better off with ideas now. I’ve seen everything from stomach ulcers to cancer suggested as the cause. Ditto (even more so) for anyone further back: Louis’s described as having intestinal/pulmonary TB, or ulcerative colitis, or Crohn’s disease. (Charming thing about having a Freudian picking at your personality: you almost get blamed for physical illnesses. Ulcerative colitis is all from being stuck in the anal stage, dontchaknow.)

  7. :) I get so annoyed when people do internet diagnoses, for many of the same reasons, and also because so many people doing it aren’t fucking qualified anyways. It’s the same with the MRAs: poke fun at a feminist sociology professor (social sciences) but use fucking worse than pop psychology reasoning and incorrectly use social science statistics (e.g. surveys). As a social scientist by trade, these guys really piss me off for being such stunning idiots when it comes to social science data. And then they have the unmitigated gall to call out a professor in the social sciences.

    Grrrr grrr grrrr grrr grrr.

  8. Echoing the grrrrring here!

  9. I really hate this new trend of blaming assholism on autism.

    The distasteful trend of assholes self-diagnosing with autism in order to justify their assholism sure didn’t help.

  10. Yes, big grrr.

    And many thanks for the links pallygirl (should it be a purrrr, to counterbalance the grrrr?)

    It especially annoys me when someone gives a “diagnosis” of a historical figure (based on whatever) and then interprets everything they did or might have thought as if that diagnosis explains their behaviour. Perfectly circular logic.

    A few years ago I read something which explained Henry VIII’s increasingly autocratic behaviour as he aged in the light of him being malnourished, a diagnosis apparently picked because it seems like the least likely thing anyone would have thought of.

    Then again, there’s sometimes contemporary reference to a symptom which was not viewed as such at the time and which was recorded without being understood, and that can be a bit more persuasive. George III’s purple pee makes it seem at least possible he did have porphyria – however, *at least possible* is about as strong as it gets.

    Until I get my time machine, my cloak of invisibility and my babel fish – oh, and my degree in medicine – and can go an check.

  11. @David

    After years and years downplaying every threat a feminist ever got, they’re sure making hay of threats now. .

    Heh, no kidding. I’m watching your Twitter battle with the misters. Ugh. Thank you for taking them on.

  12. Yeah, I should probably get out of the habit of arguing with them. They all get on the twitter at about 8 AM my time and all start yelling at once, and they keep including me in the replies long after I get bored and wander off.

  13. Their smear tactics get tiring but that’s all they have.

  14. I’m glad everybody posted all the pitfalls with armchair psychology (especially self-diagnosis; claiming to have a genuine mental disorder to feel special is grossly insensitive). These are all major issues in casual discussions of mental disorders, which is why this topic has to be handled really carefully. Also, as a correction, I should have said “high-procedure”, “high-math”, or “high-routine” instead of “high-logic”. The idea that everything including social interactions can be broken down to a flow chart is a hurdle many on the spectrum have to overcome, especially if they have mind-blindness.

    I’m not saying we should apply labels to any group or frame their hatred around a psychological disorder. What I’m thinking about is how hate groups in general exploit vulnerable, fed up people through circular ideologies that absolve them of personal responsibility and pin the blame for all life’s problems on a designated group. Understanding how they target and cater those ideas to people on the autism spectrum as well as the early warning signs somebody might be be receptive to general conspiracy theorist thinking could be used to protect vulnerable people from these groups.

  15. they keep including me in the replies long after I get bored and wander off.

    That’s how they “win.”

  16. I’m not saying we should apply labels to any group or frame their hatred around a psychological disorder. What I’m thinking about is how hate groups in general exploit vulnerable, fed up people through circular ideologies that absolve them of personal responsibility and pin the blame for all life’s problems on a designated group.

    You should have stopped there. Hate groups focus on people who are disaffected for whatever reason. You don’t have to be mentally ill or neuroatypical to be taken in by scapegoating mentality.

    Understanding how they target and cater those ideas to people on the autism spectrum as well as the early warning signs somebody might be be receptive to general conspiracy theorist thinking could be used to protect vulnerable people from these groups.

    There’s zero evidence that there’s a higher proportion of people with autism in the MRM than in the general population. It isn’t appropriate to diagnose internet commenters with autism. There’s no evidence that people with autism are more likely to hate other demographic groups. At least not that I’m aware of. Unless you have some credible evidence to back your theory up please stop.

  17. RE: Alex M

    especially self-diagnosis; claiming to have a genuine mental disorder to feel special is grossly insensitive

    I was self-diagnosed multi for six years before finally getting officially diagnosed. There are many good reasons to self-diagnose; not all of us can afford healthcare, and not all of us want to be stamped with a certain diagnosis for life. Also, doctors are fallible.

    Also, I highly doubt assholes in the manosphere are specifically tailoring their bullshit to hit vulnerable autistic people. That’s horseshit.

  18. Argenti Aertheri

    One thing about Alex’s original comment comment that’s TRUFAX though — can we not perpetuate the bull about people who don’t look you in the eyes being untrustworthy? Yeah, MRAs aren’t, for a shit ton of reasons, but plenty of decent people have issues with looking people in the eyes.

    I’m touchy on that one since I get it, I’ve never worked out how much eye contact is appropriate to avoid both “untrustworthy” and “creepy”…I tend to err on the side of the former since I don’t want to be creepy, but yeah, THAT one bit of Alex’s comment is worth its salt.

  19. Argenti Aertheri

    Oh, this thread is from yesterday. Sorry, real life got shitty and I took a day off. My 55g tank…idfk…I woke up yesterday to it being dead except for three cories who’ve been relocated to the 29g while I scrub the SHIT out of the 55g.

    Mass unexplainable fish deaths fuck with my head. Sorry for the necro post.

  20. @Argenti I’m glad you did mention the eye thing – I was going to on friday and then was away from electricity for much of the weekend. I also have a problem with figuring out eye contact, so I avoid it a lot. It makes people think I’m a snob, but I prefer that to panicking over whether or not I’ve stared too long.

  21. Re not making eye contact, it’s also cultural. Apparently if I give some Pasifika males direct eye contact, that’s showing I’m flirting with them. Then you also get the (classist?) stuff like movie actors who order crews not to talk or make eye contact with them, when they’re on set.

  22. Sorry to hear about your fish, I hate animals dying. Which is why I’m an ovo-lacto-vegetarian.

    With what I’ve been reading about dairy cows, I now feel very guilty about dairy.

  23. i don’t mean to imply ALL eye contact must be given at all times. Elam’s lack of it, specifically in certain circumstances in which i’ve seen him, is what i meant to have questioned.

  24. Argenti Aertheri

    Thanks pallygirl. And yeah, the thing about movie crews is classist, even at the lowest levels of theatre the actors seem to forget they need to techs (we had a saying “without us you’d be naked on a bare dark stage and nobody would be able to hear you”)

  25. Argenti, I’m real sorry about your fishies. I’m not up on my aquaculture – are there any theories as to what causes these things?

  26. RE: pallygirl

    Try not to feel guilty. If you can, it’s possible to get dairy from places that are nice to their animals! (I worked on an organic dairy farm for a bit, and it gave me a great respect for the common cow. As far as I could tell, the farmer took good care of them, gave them plenty of space and dietary variety.)

    I don’t like killing animals for meat, but unfortunately I’ve found that if I don’t eat meat, I get sick eventually. (And no, it’s not a lack of protein, I’m on a strict meal plan; it’s very specifically MEAT that I seem to need.)

  27. Oh, I must look into the organic standard then and see if they treat their cows better. I loathe the taste of soy and I would hate to give up cheese now I can get vegetarian varieties – vegetarian Edam is super yum.

  28. There’ll probably be a thread on this later, but Swore has a new vid up about how Dean Esmay lost his shit after she got press credentials, and he’s seemingly convinced that her sole purpose in going to the conference is to help DAVID FUTRELLE make avfm look bad. He’s really got a persecution complex about you, Dave. He throws the word “sadistic” around a lot. Also there seems to be very little communication between avfm representatives, as JB demanded a press pass and then DE wanted to shut her out on the grounds she had one. Ummm, what?

    So basically, so far as I can figure out, unless Swore comes out of this with a glowing testimonial to the amazing transformative power of avfm and their fantastic work *coughcough* they’re already poisoning the well so they can claim she’s just another back-stabbing bitch out to double-cross them after they so magnanimously let her into their He-Man Woman-Haters Clubhouse.

    (Also getting REALLY FUCKING SICK of hearing male survivors of rape and domestic violence trotted out as human shields every time MRAs are criticised. “You can’t say bad things about us because if you do YOU DON’T CARE”. Such a bullshit derail it doesn’t even deserve refuting, but hearing it from Esmay instead of seeing it in text was especially vile.)

  29. Eh, I’ve been ninja’d – just listened to the edited ‘phonecall from Dean Esmay to Swore and he certainly does have a thing about David. Basically I’m 2nding everything strivingally just said.

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