“Stealing me for daddy’s money hurts me too,” and other nuggets of wisdom from some dude’s MRA memes

Woah, dude, that's like ... incomprehensible.

Woah, dude, that’s like … incomprehensible.

Sometimes I wonder if we’re being unfair to Men’s Rights Activists by allowing them to handle their own publicity. I mean, it’s pretty clear that they’re terrible at it. Worse than terrible, really. Terribler. Possibly the terriblest.

I mean, just this week we saw the official social media director of A Voice for Men’s conference in Detroit announcing the conference’s new venue with this:


Bloomfield now claims this was her attempt to “troll” people like you and me by tweeting what I guess she’s now saying is a thoroughly awful fake quote which for some reason she has decided to attribute to a real person. This makes so little sense by normal human standards that I find this explanation a little hard to believe — but I guess I’m just getting trolled by my own skepticism? Oh, Judgy Bitch, you got me!


Whoops! I guess I got trolled a third time!

And … oh, for a second there I thought I was going to be trolled again, but I stood firm. For now.

Anyway, all this is just a long intro for some Actual Authentic I Didn’t Make These Up Honest to Goodness Men’s Rights Memes that I discovered on the blog of someone named Francis Roy, an MRA, an AVFM fan, and a bit of a meme enthusiast. The somewhat baffling meme at the top of this post? One of his best.

Which is to say, his memes basically suck, even by meme standards.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, these are all overvalued by at least 997 words. You can find them all in the meme section of his blog, though, be warned, he also posts a lot of graphic and disturbing pictures of dead soldiers and circumcised babies and other horrible things. (Note to MRAs: a lot of feminists, like me, are also troubled by and/or opposed to circumcision. Instead of derailing every discussion of female genital mutilation and alienating potential allies, you might try taking your message to the public at large?)

Anyway, let’s get to the memes. Note: A couple are mildly NSFW.

Here we learn that divorced mothers who have custody of the children are really just keeping them in order to enjoy all that sweet-ass child support cash!


Note: custodial parents who’ve been awarded child support actually receive, on average, about $300 per month. You can almost buy an XboxOne for that! Or, you know, you can try to feed and clothe and care for a child. And pay for child care, and babysitters, and doctor’s visits, and toys, and, you know, shelter. Huh. $300 actually doesn’t sound like that much.

Frankly as a money-making proposition, “stealing me for daddy’s money” seems like kind of a bust.

But let’s just move on to this fine meme, which as far as I can figure it is some sort of attack on underwear  models:


Really? Hath not an underwear model eyes? Hath not an underwear model hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? If you prick an underwear model, do they not bleed? Does blood not run down their smooth, tight abs?

Pretty sure it does. Seriously. Underwear models need to eat, too! Well, maybe not as much as I do, but come on! Stop the hate!

Oh, did I mention that Mr. Roy apparently considers himself a Man Going His Own Way?



Yeah, let’s just move on.


Lol wut


Oh, come on!

I’m not even a Christian, but, seriously?

I’m going to post two quotes here. One will be from Jesus. The other from a rather well-known Man Going His Own Way. See if you can tell the difference.

Here’s the first quote. See if you can tell if this is Jesus, or MGTOW elder Christopher in Oregon.

Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Here’s the other quote:

I’m going to be blunt. Have you ever smelled a vagina? Seriously. I mean in it’s natural, unwashed state? Really stuck your nose right down there and taken a deep breath?


My G-d. The stench could have knocked a buzzard off a shit wagon at fifty paces. To this day I swear there was a cloud of flies buzzing around that portal of doom. Sometimes when riding my Harley-Beasties around the rural roads here in Oregon, I encounter dead skunks. Road kill. We have a lot of them here, and when they’ve been baking in the summer sun, you can smell them a long way off even at sixty miles per hour.

Vaginas tend to be even nastier.

SPOILER ALERT: The first quote was the one from Jesus.

Let’s see what else Mr. Roy has got.


Wait, is that one of Mr. Roy’s memes, or did I just accidentally post a pic from my extensive collection of FemDom porn?

By which I mean, yes that was one of his memes and forget what I said about that other stuff.

Ok, one more.



Sorry, I didn’t mean to spring that on you. Hopefully you weren’t eating.

But in the unlikely event that you would like to print out your own high-quality color poster of a glowering Paul Elam to hang over your bed, or wherever you hang such pictures, I’ve got some good news for you! Mr. Roy has helpfully provided a downloadable pdf version!

All of the above graphics are by Francis Roy and under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License.

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon, Time.com, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on June 13, 2014, in a voice for men, a woman is always to blame, antifeminism, are these guys 12 years old?, artistry, disgusting women, evil sexy ladies, evil women, father's rights, gross incompetence, I am making a joke, imaginary backwards land, judgybitch, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, paul elam, pedestalization, playing the victim, the c-word, the poster revolution has begun, vaginas, yeah that's the ticket and tagged , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 399 Comments.

  1. cassandrakitty

    You know, the fact that Elam could have made a living as a shrink and chose to make a living by scamming unhappy men into giving him money on the internet instead does not actually make him look better than if he’d been unable to make a living before and turned to grifting out of desperation.

  2. Elam was not a psychiatrist. He was a drug counselor. I know a drug counselor in Texas, where Elam lives, who had only a Bachelor’s degree. Maybe he had an MSW, but he certainly isn’t an M.D. or Ph.D.

  3. An associate’s degree? Wow, That’s disturbing.

  4. From Pauly’s Woody: “Paul attended college and found work as a very successful psychiatrist until he decided to devote himself to AVfM, likely at a significant pay cut. You have no idea what you’re talking about.”

    Why do you say that “Paul attended college”? You do know that a psychiatrist must be an MD; it’s a doctor-level specialty like cardiology or gastroenterology. Where did Paul get his MD? Was he a psychiatrist and had to give up his medical license for some reason? OK, maybe you meant psychologist, a lot of people don’t understand the distinction, and articles about Paul do describe him as a psychologist. A psychologist needs a Ph. D. Did Paul get a Ph. D somewhere (from a REAL university)? There are all sorts of people who have lesser levels of education; some do good work and some are charlatans, but most of the good people make very little money. Some people call themselves psychologists without having the credentials but if they actually try to practice they are committing a crime. But some charlatans do make good money.
    Paul describes himself as “Dean of Student Affairs at FTSU”. I have googled FTSU and found no information about any institution with those initials, just articles about Paul. Can you enlighten us, Woody? ‘Cause it sure reeks of griftery to me.

  5. FTSU is AVfM’s unofficial motto. It stands for “fuck their shit up”, and is from one of Paul’s more infamous quotes (“the thought of fucking your shit up gives me an erection”).

  6. “Paul attended college and found work as a very successful psychiatrist until he decided to devote himself to AVfM, likely at a significant pay cut. You have no idea what you’re talking about.”

    Woody, does being a relentless cheerleader for a burned-out drug counselor turned charlatan ever get old?

    P.S.–you don’t just “find work” as a psychiatrist. You have to train for years.

  7. cassandrakitty

    Whoever paid for Pauly’s education is owed a refund.

  8. @emilygoddess: Thanks for informing me. That’s really grown-up stuff, the highest level of intellectual discourse. I can just imagine the clubhouse made of scrap lumber with the sign, “No Grils Alowd.”
    I want to be Dean of Students Affairs at AYFSU (Are You Fucking Serious University).

  9. cassandrakitty

    I’m already President of LAYS university.

    (laughing at your shit)

  10. “Whoever paid for Pauly’s education is owed a refund.”
    All $17.99.

  11. Wherever he was educated owes the world an apology or an explanation.

    No, wait. They owe both.

  12. If he had some level of psychology education, that could explain how well he exploits the blind spots in people’s perception and reasoning to manipulate the easily led.

  13. Janet: But, here’s the part you don’t seem to be comfortable with

    My comfort with it, or not, is immaterial to what I said. I’m sorry your feelings are hurt. I wish they weren’t. I don’t really see any way people could have addressed what you said (which may not have been what you meant) without hurting your feelings.

    I understand that. I’ve been there. What I also don’t see is that you understand that we can’t read your mind, merely your words.

    As to the comments you were responding to… so what? (and reading the comments you linked to… I actually understand even less. You didn’t address the question of, Why is “you’re fat” worse than “you’re a failure” or “you’re nothing without me”?

    What you said in response boiled down to, “why you tell someone their fat can make it ok”.

    Which I didn’t respond to. Others had said all I could have, and more. What I was responding to was your imputation that we “read into” your words things which weren’t there, esp. because you then took us to task for things not responding to things you hadn’t said.

    If you don’t like my apology or it makes you personally feel better to think negatively about me

    Good grief. Where did I say I thought negatively about you? Show me? Because you are reading things into what I said which aren’t there. Yes, I said I think part of why you are getting the reactions you got is that you didn’t actually apologise. I didn’t say that I think you are a bad person. I, in fact, qualified what I said so as to give you credit for good intent*, no matter how badly you presented your thoughts.

    I will say the only reason I am continuing, is because you aren’t letting it drop. I had said all I thought needed saying.

    I am willing to accept that you meant no harm

  14. I have trouble communicating as it is, okay? Writing is the only way that I’ve ever been able to express myself properly. Being told that I’m clumsy or careless or that what I’ve said is stupid and offensive repeatedly makes me feel like there is no possible way for me to express myself.

    I’d say you failed at that. We didn’t misunderstand you. We may not have understood you as well as we do now, but we understood what you wrote just fine (and really, it wasn’t that long: we read, and write, much longer things that that. We have pretty good attention to detail; it’s just that the rest of what you wrote wasn’t helping your cause, and didn’t change the stupid, and offensive in the part being called out).

    But we are supposed to just forget that you were too clumsy (or careless) to give us all the other data.

    As to the comments you were responding to… so what? (and reading the comments you linked to… I actually understand even less.

    I, in fact, qualified what I said so as to give you credit for good intent*, no matter how badly you presented your thoughts.

    To you, saying these things might not seem like a big deal, but, for me, saying this is like saying: You’re a failure at the only thing in your life that has ever consistently made you feel good about yourself. You already can’t express yourself in other ways, so you might as well give up because all you’re doing is hurting other people.

    I had one thing in my life that I felt I could do right before today and now I don’t have that anymore. I had one thing that no one had ever said anything bad about.

    Just like I didn’t intend to set off a firestorm with one sentence, I’m sure that you don’t mean to imply that I have no positive qualities in my life, but that doesn’t change how I feel. Or how I’ve felt every time someone has suggested something similar today.

    And I know that you’re going to say that none of this makes sense because, as I’ve already gotten a pretty good understanding, clearly I’m bad at communication.

    And I did apologize, though I’m guessing that even that doesn’t count.

  15. I’m not going to google Elam’s educational background due to the zero fucks I have to give, but there is no fringing way Elam has a PhD. He was a substance abuse councilor, which doesn’t even require a Bachelors degree, much less a Masters or PhD. You just need an Associate (2 yr) degree or a addiction counseling certificate and certain number of hours of supervised counseling to get certified. You can do a lot of good in that job but you aren’t going to make much money, it’s a tough, low paying job with salaries in 25-50k range. No shame in Elam quitting the field though, the burnout rate is very high. Plenty of shame for his current grifter ways however.

  16. *That’s substance abuse counselor, not councilor. I’d love to blame auto-correct, but that’s on me and my deteriorating brain cells.

  17. I didn’t say you are bad at communication. I said you had communicated badly. Everyone does that. I’ve done it. I’ve done it here. I’ve done it when doing public speaking engagements. I’ve done it when teaching.

    As to what I’m going to say, or not… you should stop doing that. Really. For a lot of reasons, not least of which it’s the most alienating thing (from my perspective) you’ve done. All the other things, are; so far as I’m concerned, just things. They don’t carry any really emotional baggage. Telling me what I think/feel/know/will do, those actually do have the ability to impart negative feelings. Yes, I know you are feeling badly.

    As I said, I’m sorry for that, but I can’t really help that. The only thing I could do is pretend you didn’t say anything. That’s an impossible (and unfair) burden to put on us. Making us responsible for your sense of self-worth, because we comment on the things you write, and the way you write them is abusive. It’s asking us to put our feelings, emotions, and reasoning aside because it might hurt your feelings.

    Well, it might. It may not be obvious (in part because I work to keep it so) but it happens to me too. I make mistakes. I also take stands on controversial issues. I’ve had people make attacking me (in both my personal and professional capacities), calling me incompetent at my profession, immoral in my choices; and advocacy. I’ve been told I’m either incapable of logical thought, or mendacious to the point of not caring about human life. My patriotism, my sense of justice, and my mental health have been called into question.

    I’ve had had weeks running where I dreaded opening my e-mail, and knew that going to the parts of the internet in which I liked to spend my time were going to be full of insult, and degradation.

    I’ve had things like that come to my home. I’ve had friends come to my work to harangue me because of how they took something I wrote (because I was a journalist). Sometimes it was for things I had no control over; didn’t matter to them, all they could see was what the editors let go to press.

    So yes, I understand what it’s like to have your writing, a skill you’ve spent time and effort to get to a level of skill you feel proud of called awful.

    And there is nothing I can do about that, unless I am going to ignore everything you write. I don’t mean not respond to it, I mean not read it. Because they only way I avoid the possibility of hurting your feelings is to never respond. And the only way to never respond is to not read it.

    And I can’t promise that.

  18. I don’t know how to not be like this, though.

  19. So, according to Woody, Paul is an MD?

  20. cassandrakitty

    Given that Woody seems to suffer from a chronic case of fanboy-ism I doubt even he knows exactly what he believes. Whatever Pauly tells him to, basically.

  21. Dr. Paul is the new Dr. Laura. Shudder.

  22. Dr. Paul is the new Dr. Laura. Shudder.


  23. until I took a big paycut and became disabled

    … I read that as “until I took a big papercut”.

    I’m laughing at the whole Paul is so too educated and a big wheel psychiatrist, yah! from Pauly’s Woody, when it’s so blatantly obvious he’s not.

    $17.99 sounds about right for the costs of his education.

    Important! Is that your kitty, GrumpyOldMan?

  24. Janet, it’s okay.

    You’ve just got a bit of a rough start. Bad feelings all around.

    You haven’t done anything irredeemable, yet, so don’t worry too much. Just try to take the feedback and roll with it.

    What’s helped me in the past (in email conversations, and an adjusted method for meatspace) was taking a half hour offline/away after reading/hearing negative responses.

    Pet a dog, make funny faces in a mirror, draw a smiley face on my boots in an off color shoe-polish, then polish them in with the right color, so my feet always have hidden smileys (goofy, I know), stuff like that.

    Then, I sit down and try to make sense of it. The responses generally have to be short and to the point:

    “I think I understand why you felt like I was implying —–. I’m sorry, and that wasn’t my intent. In reality, I meant —–. I’ll try to be better about not implying —–, and I’m thinking about what you’ve said/written”

    The time away thinking about other things/drawing smileys gives me a chance to calm down so I don’t go all overly-defensive. Overly-defensive me usually means words stream forth that are hurtful, overly sarcastic, and unhelpful… But that’s pretty me specific. Other people don’t seem to have that problem, and don’t get axe-tongue. Since I do, smiley-boots. They help me keep the hatchet burried. Smiley-boots.

    Then I can actually figure out what people were having problems with specifically. If it’s a good thing to have problems with then it’s an implication I don’t want to make, so I figure out a rewording that doesn’t fall into that trap. In the case that what I said turns out to be completely wrongheaded, I admit that instead of rewording.

    If they are saying things completely off topic (You must be advocating fricaseed babies, then, since you typed that you think that yellow is a boring color!) I just ignore it off into the sunset.

    Generally, no more than a sentence for the —- sections, though, if it’s on topic and something I really don’t want to have implied, meant, or anything.

    This may not help you, but it’s a staple for me.

    You may have noticed my tendency to teal deer; it means I have a good chance of “foot in mouth”. I just try not to get in too deep in my holes. :(

  25. Also, Janet, I think a lot of folks were responding in general to the “calling someone fat” ideas, not specifically to you… They just happened to comment after you.

    Hope that helps. I really don’t intend to be piling on, so I hope you don’t take it that way. If you do, sorry! Let me know, and I’ll work on it.

    Okay, I’m going to stop trying to be helpful now, since I might just be making it worse…

  26. My mother enjoyed child support for years after she kicked me and my sister from the house. My father worked hundreds of miles away at night in a menial job so he could pay that child support. That top meme, as offensive and untrue to reality as you find it, really speaks to me.

  27. @Janet, it’s quite simple. this is a tough & advanced site. If you screw up either in your thinking or how you express youself, people will call you out on it, big time. It’s not personal. Noone is exempt. not you, not me, not even David. When you get called out – when, not if, because we all do at some point or other – the only thing to do is think about why, about what people are telling you, understand where you’ve screwed up, apologise, promise to do better, and move on.

    As I’ve said, noone is exempt from this. That includes you. So if this is too much for you and threatens your emotional wellbeing, then step back for a while. Lots of us take time away from here, lots of people lurk or just post comments on innocuous subjects (kitty pictures etc) until they are feeling strong enough or brave enough or well enough to post more. There is nothing wrong with doing that because self-protection is important.

    But do not ask us to give you a pass. It won’t happen and it is unfair of you to ask or expect it.

  28. Also, Janet, I think a lot of folks were responding in general to the “calling someone fat” ideas, not specifically to you… They just happened to comment after you.

    Yeah, this. Often, discussions here take a life of their own, and people are sometimes talking in general terms about a phenomenon related to something an individual poster wrote about. Looking back at my comment now, it seems unnecessarily whiny since this is a sore spot for me, but rest assured, Janet, I was not responding to you specifically (the way I see it, the gist of the discussion was “why do some people feel the need to give their unsolicited comment on other people’s weight in the first place, since chances are it will accomplish nothing positive in any case?”, and I felt like going all “true dat”).

  29. @kittehserf: Was my cat. Unfortunately Nikki died a couple of years ago, but we had her for 16 good years. (She previously belonged to my daughter’s friend, who had to give her up when she moved to a no-pets apartment.) She was a very sweet-natured kitty, but in the right light she had those glowing red eyes that made her seem like a devil kitty, and that’s why I chose her for my avatar. We currently have six cats, five of which we adopted and one adopted us.

  30. Advanced??
    Which website (that does not include 101 in the title, in all probability more to do with US colleges than the room in 1984) does not like to say about itself that it is advanced? Maybe time for umpteen pages of required reading before commenting, like certain other sites.

    And I don’t don’t know why it takes an essay to apologize. Why can’t “Sorry, I screwed up, I was wrong” suffice?

    Another note, to David, which I take here instead of the thread about moderation because I shouldn’t write there. When you delete posts,why can’t the the name stay and the content is replaced with “deleted to to breach of comment policy”, or something. That would make the posts less confusing to read.. Also it works as a mark of shame for the offender.

  31. When you delete posts,why can’t the the name stay and the content is replaced with “deleted to to breach of comment policy”, or something. That would make the posts less confusing to read.. Also it works as a mark of shame for the offender.

    That’s a good idea. Threads get really confusing when everyone replies to a post and then it gets deleted.

  32. Argenti Aertheri

    For a far less sensitive example — “wow, your hair is long!” Nawh, I somehow missed that every time I brush it!

    Yeah, it’s meant as a compliment, not an insult, but point here is that those of us with traits outside the “norm” already know this. And if it gets old hearing it as a compliment, I can’t imagine how tiring it must be when it’s meant as an insult.

  33. Argenti Aertheri

    Thirding Talacaris.

  34. I like talacaris’s idea too.

    RE: Kittehs

    … I read that as “until I took a big papercut”.

    Well, how ELSE would I end up disabled, I ask you? I wouldn’t get taken down by a mere ORDINARY papercut…

    RE: Chthon

    That top meme, as offensive and untrue to reality as you find it, really speaks to me.

    Nobody’s saying that women can’t be abusive neglectful asshats. The thing is, that’s not FEMALE PRIVILEGE. That’s an abuser working the system, something abusers of all genders are really fucking good at. The meme may speak to you, but the meme is still WRONG.

  35. Chthon

    “My mother enjoyed child support for years after she kicked me and my sister from the house. My father worked hundreds of miles away at night in a menial job so he could pay that child support. That top meme, as offensive and untrue to reality as you find it, really speaks to me.”

    I’m sorry to hear that but we’re not saying that it doesn’t happen (it really does), we’re talking about how it doesn’t happen as much as MRAs say it does.

  36. Paul: “the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.”
    Pauly’s Woody is the finger puppet Paul puts on his perpetual hard-on to keep it from freezing off when he comes up north.

  37. This seemed to be the best, recent thread to post these in.

    US data, female share of bachelor degrees: http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelors-degrees-conferred-to-women-by-major-1970-2012/

    Back the the bloody armchair diagnosis of autism spectrum disorders, we have at comment 4:

    I’d wager that the gender disparity in CS is related to men being four times more likely to display autistic spectrum tendencies. That four to one ratio is pretty close to the 80% male enrolment.

    Followed by at second reply to that comment, name slightly different so not clear if this was the same commenter:

    Like 50% of the students were full on aspie (including me), and the vast majority showed some kind of introverted tendencies.

    I do find it hard to believe that 50% of male computer science undergraduates in the US have Aspergers.

    The mirror graph for male share: http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/15/the-double-edged-sword-of-gender-equality/

    I’m not sure why one person in the comments is saying the numbers are wrong for computer sciences, when that is an amalgam of computer and information sciences, relevant link is here: http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d10/tables/dt10_314.asp

    Just taking computer science, the 1980s saw the advent of personal computers, which expanded through the 1990s, then we had the development of high performance computing post 2000. The numbers going up and down are what I would expect.

  38. Well, how ELSE would I end up disabled, I ask you? I wouldn’t get taken down by a mere ORDINARY papercut…

    They talk about the death of a thousand cuts but that’s nothing to the death of a thousand papercuts.

    … My fingers hurt just thinking about that.

  39. Oh hell, when Chthon said “the first meme” I thought they meant the damn stars one. If it’s the ‘stealing me’ one… why is there only compassion for men and boys? Do girls not get kidnapped? Do assholes fathers never run off with their kids?

    The meme is still kinda like saying, “Stepping on a nail hurts! Have compassion for men and boys!” They’re talking about a global phenomena as though it only affects one gender.

    RE: pallysgirl

    Yeah, I’m calling horseshit. The autism spectrum folks I know do all sorts of things. I know autistic biologists, artists, child care workers, accountants, graphic designers, engineers… because shock! Autistic people have varying interests and skills, just like allistic people!

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