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a voice for men MRA

Is A Voice for Men's conference kaput? Doubletree says "they are not booked with us." [UPDATE: Elam says they have another venue.]

carwheels

Woah! Just wanted to pass along this news from the Motor City Muckraker:

A controversial conference for a men’s rights group in Detroit appears to be in jeopardy after a fallout with downtown’s Hilton DoubleTree, which planned to host the event from June 26-28.

The inaugural conference at the DoubleTree has been canceled for unknown reasons, and organizers of the first International Conference on Men’s Issues haven’t said yet whether it will be moved to another hotel and conference center.

“At this time, they are not booked with us,” Larry Brown, manager of the DoubleTree, said this morning. He declined to elaborate on the cancelation.

There’s nothing on A Voice for Men about this latest development, though Esmay hinted during his Fox News appearance that they were possibly going to reconsider the Doubletree. But as of right now, AVFM is still selling tickets, as if the Doubletree convention is still a going concern.

Are they going to try to book the convention elsewhere? Or are they going to take the $29,000 they raised for “security” and, I dunno, send Esmay to a better stylist?

One other, ah, interesting detail in the Motor City Muckraker story:

When asked Tuesday whether the event would be moved, an organizer responded: “The DoubleTree GM (general manager) actually said that he has ‘feminist phobia’ and sort of laughed but in a nervous way. So its being discussed.”

It’s questionable whether this conversation ever occurred because the general manager is a woman.

Yeah. Seems like a lot of things about this convention have been pretty questionable from the start.

UPDATE: Well, one thing’s a bit clearer now, though. I called the Detroit Police and they confirmed that the Doubletree did indeed report to them that it had received threats. Who sent them, we still don’t know, but I think we can all agree that whether the threats came from some misguided feminist or “progressive” or from an MRA trying to stir shit and make feminists look bad, whoever made the threatening calls is a shithead who deserves to face the legal consequences for what they did.

UPDATE 2: According to the Detroit News, Elam says they’ve got another venue:

“We have scheduled another venue and will make an announcement on the site this evening,” group founder Paul Elam said in an email Wednesday.

So far no announcement on AVFM; I’ll post about it when there is one.

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marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

Oh lawl, it looks like the dining hall of a curling rink. I used to serve at catering events in those places. The old men at them were pretty nice, actually.

Not a lot of seats there….

kittehserf
6 years ago

That picture from the Muckraker has almost as many people as they’re likely to get at their conference.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

I’m beginning to really like The Muckraker. So JB reveals her deep respect for sex workers #7 the $s are to spent on blanket security. /rolls eyes

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

@Sarah, I assume that someone is emailing a copy of that article to VFW, right now, and asking them to comment on the alledged quote from their venue manager?

ceebarks
ceebarks
6 years ago

@strivingally: I think feMRAs have a few different main motivations, but one of them is probably wanting to be on the “winning side.” I think part of it is wanting to somehow get one up one other women by being different and special, to seek attention and validation they may not get elsewhere, and of course there is just good old fashioned internalized misogyny in play there, too.

Plus I really think that a lot of them actually come from pretty messed up family backgrounds that they have never really faced and dealt with– the whole internet redpill thing allows them to kind of relive/process it while deflecting a lot of personal responsibility– so that’s comfortable and familiar in a way. I really think a lot of red pillers would benefit a whole lot from a few sessions with even a marginally competent therapist. At least maybe you’d come to understand that there are calcified layers of damaged gunk built up and maybe even your most basic assumptions aren’t exactly built on a sensible foundation.

Viscaria
Viscaria
6 years ago

@kittehs:

“child maintenance” is another term for child support. The term still gets used in UK and Australian English, for example.

Oh crap, how completely myopic of me not to even consider that it might be a regional difference. I’m embarrassed. Thank you for letting me know.

bunnybunny
6 years ago

Do VFWs generally have a larger capacity than hotel conference centers…?

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

They certainly have an array of meats and pop options.

sarah
sarah
6 years ago

I can neither confirm or deny that the VFW has been emailed about this.

Someone definitely *should* alert them to what seems to be libelous comments towards the only venue in the area that appears to be willing to host them.

The VFW isn’t even within city limits. So much for saying they wanted to support Detroit economically.

titianblue
titianblue
6 years ago

@sarah, indeed and I hope that if anyone does so, they take care to protect themselves from any negative reactions from the MRM. Perhaps the investigative journalist will have done so, anyway, given his interest. 🙂

white knight
white knight
6 years ago

> “lease be advised that the $32K we scammed from gullible supporters will be spent on Detroit’s fine sex workers and illegal substance users. Hookers and coke, all the way!”

@judybitch, I have to say I’m grudgingly impressed by your brazenness, switching last minute from a centrally located conference room at the Hilton to a cheaper hall 25 miles away outside Detroit city limits is a pretty shrewd cash grab/ cost cutting measure. Considering you’ve got punters paying $250 a ticket and many who would have already booked accommodation near the original location.

Even taking into account private security (which costs approximately $25/hour per security guard) you guys are coming out of this pretty well. At $250 a ticket, plus the $32K in donations, keeping them outraged has certainly paid off for whoever at AVfM pockets the cash.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

The size of a VFW probably depends on the location. I went to see my dad’s friend’s band at a suburban one and it was fairly large. Maybe the size of a chain restaurant.

My local VFW is much smaller than that. It’s also actually a decent place to hang out. My neighborhood VFW has karaoke Thur-Sat nights. A lot of twenty somethings live in my neighborhood and go for the karaoke and cheap drinks. I can’t imagine a MRA conference taking place there.

sarah
sarah
6 years ago

http://vfw1146brucepost.org/

Says they can accommodate 300.

daintydougal
daintydougal
6 years ago

So at this conference (I’ll believe it when I see it) they’ll be discussing what?
How custody generally is given the the primary care giver
How difficult it can be to access health care
Inequality and class struggles
umm…

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Sarah,

Says they can accommodate 300.

So your saying they’ll have room to spare?

The MRAs are in the comment section of the Muckraker claiming that the SPLC is a fraud and that MRAs never threaten feminists.

Yesterday one of my kids told me that when he killed Voldamort with his ‘chanted sword, Master Yoda says his training will be ‘plete.

These MRAs are living in a fantasy world that puts his to shame. I gotta give them points for using their imaginations.

JB, thanks for the warning. That’s the first kind thing I’ve ever seen you do for other women. I’m sure the sex workers of Detroit like to know when there is a large group of dangerous misogynists in town to avoid for their personal safety.

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

“C*nts” and rape analogies and jokes about spending donation money on illegal drugs! You stay classy, JB.

zoon echon logon
zoon echon logon
6 years ago

@JB
I assume half of those hookers will be male. It would be misandry to support the female domination of a lucrative, cushy, safe job like being a sex worker. And, if you spend the money on male sex workers, it would be the only thing about the conference that actually does something to help men! /sarcasm

@ceebarks
Your posts in this thread have been amazing. I’ve always been puzzled by fMRAs and redpill women, but reluctant to armchair internet diagnose them. You’ve given me a much clearer understanding of where they might be coming from.

emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

What would we ever do without Gary graciously mansplaining feminism to us.

Probably bump into walls without any purpose.

HAHAHAHA oh wow.

Paul, just to make you feel comfortable around here,

Not your place, dude. You don’t even go here and we don’t want you to. I don’t care how many feelings you have.

I am actually seriously starting to think that some of these guys have serious mental illness

No.

weirwoodtreehugger
6 years ago

Not your place, dude. You don’t even go here and we don’t want you to.

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emilygoddess
emilygoddess
6 years ago

Do VFWs generally have a larger capacity than hotel conference centers…?

Not remotely, unless it was a very small hotel. This venue is much more appropriately sized for the turnout they’re likely to get.

@Marinerachel, is that a parody or a real MRA poster? I can’t even tell any more.

@WWTH, I;m glad someone got it 😀

Alejandro
Alejandro
6 years ago

“but I think we can all agree that whether the threats came from some misguided feminist or “progressive” or from an MRA trying to stir shit and make feminists look bad”

Sure. And whenever a feminist writer makes another post about recieving threats or being a victim of harassment, I will make sure to point out that these threats may as well come from a feminist trying to make males look bad.

LBT (with an open writeathon!)

I did a con at a VFW once. It was… enh, decent-sized space for a small-time local craft con, but I did absolutely wretchedly at it, profit-wise. Also, I CERTAINLY didn’t have to pay $250 for a table.

RE: kmcorby

I don’t really think all this gloating is becoming.

Enh, I think I have better things to do than be “becoming” around the abuser’s lobby.

RE: Lea

Poodles are very smart, hearty dogs. Standard poodles are working class dogs bred for hunting and served as war dogs for a large chunk of history.

I AM A WAR POODLE!

RE: Fibinachi

It’s all supporting, manipulating and exciting weaponized fur fashion.

But do I get to keep my bag of holding? This is the big question, how can I support without thumbs or a bag of holding?

RE: Nequam

Is there a reason you guys keep talking to the trolls, especially the ones that flounce?

Feeding the trolls till they explode is a longstanding tradition here at Mammoth, and one of the reasons I hang out here. If I wanted to ignore assholes, I’d just go anywhere else on the Internet. As it is, I get to mock and fight back, and it makes me feel better than just keeping a stiff upper lip and eyes on the horizon.

fruitloopsie
fruitloopsie
6 years ago

“I am actually seriously starting to think that some of these guys have serious mental illness”

Lets not bring mental illnesses into this. Some people are just plain evil and so far from reality; mental illnesses have nothing to do with it.

Welcome joe! 🙂

POOODDDLLLEES!

http://www.petsitusa.com/blog/?p=2443

LBT (with writeathon poll!)

RE: Alejandro

And whenever a feminist writer makes another post about recieving threats or being a victim of harassment, I will make sure to point out that these threats may as well come from a feminist trying to make males look bad.

Your comparison don’t slide, bro. These guys got a couple threats. Folks like Anita Sarkeesian get an uncountable deluge. Also, AVFM has a history of exaggeration, harassment, flat-out lying, and pocketing people’s money.

We’re not doubting them because women would never threaten AVFM teehee. We’re doubting them because they’re LIARS.

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

I mean, those threats could come from highly trained battle Yorkies with lasers for eyes, but I’m just saying, the odds aren’t great.

Gary T
Gary T
6 years ago
Reply to  emilygoddess

Emily? How could you?
After all we’ve been through together??

NO00ooo . . .

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Noo, from laser sharks.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Sure. And whenever a feminist writer makes another post about recieving threats or being a victim of harassment, I will make sure to point out that these threats may as well come from a feminist trying to make males look bad.

Except that we know that Misogynists, the MRA affiliated kind especially, do make threats toward feminists regularly and that AVfM does engage in lies constructed just to discredit feminists and feminism regularly. So the two are not alike at all. Our mistrust of Elam and his gang of hateful tools is based firmly in reality. The MRM’s claims about feminism are not. See, the truth is not subjective but a verifiable thing. You can verify the shadiness of MRAs quite easily. But then, you knew that. You just thought you could score a “gotcha” for Team Misogyny.
You missed.

Lea
Lea
6 years ago

Let slip the oodles of Poodles!
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kittehserf
6 years ago

No, no, it would be Laser Death Cat.

Though I’m not sure zie would bother about threats.

http://youtu.be/vb_9vxXyqdU

cassandrakitty
cassandrakitty
6 years ago

But I want a battle Yorkie, dammit. With tiny little armor, and a big red bow on its forehead.

pallygirl
pallygirl
6 years ago

Sorry, when googling yorkie and lasers, this is pretty much all I got:

Alejandro
Alejandro
6 years ago

” AVfM does engage in lies constructed just to discredit feminists and feminism regularly.”

Well I was unaware of that. If you can link me to the proof that AVfM engages in constructed lies just to discredit feminist I will retract.

BTW, how do you quote here?

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

Alejandro…

< blockquote >

And there’s an AVFM tag. Check it out.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago
marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

HOLY SHIT, IT WORKED. I officially know how to blockquote. Thank you Mr. Bannister, I owe you a cocktail and four internets.

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

😀

Also, on whether AVFM lies…

We don’t call anybody whores, you whore!

And, weirder, they’re totally non-violent, right? Totally non-violent.

What’s this?

https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2013/09/28/speaker-at-mens-rights-rally-of-the-century-in-toronto-calls-on-mras-to-take-up-arms-against-communists/

(scroll to the picture of Paul Elam)

(his T-shirt)

(think about it)

But the question was ‘do they lie about feminists?’

Okay, so, https://twitter.com/DavidFutrelle/statuses/477142466374533121

This is them trying to accuse David of calling outrage over child pornography hysteria. This is not the first time they have brought this accusation up.

Without any shred of evidence.

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

Oh, and this, where they call a male feminist a confessed rapist.

marinerachel
marinerachel
6 years ago

God, they hate false accusations WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

Right??

If you click through on that last one, it includes this…

Of course, this isn’t the first time A Voice for Men has falsely accused someone of something based on bad evidence or no evidence at all.

In April of this year, Elam (along with a number of other MRAs and an assortment of White Supremacists as well) worked himself into an uproar over a blog post from an alleged feminist allegedly working in a college admission office who claimed she was routinely trashing applications from white males.

Though even the most rudimentary amount of fact-checking would have revealed that the woman they blamed for the blog had nothing to do with it, she had her contact information posted online by MRAs and others, leaving her open to harassment and widespread vilification. Elam contributed to the hubbub by posting a vituperative post identifying the wrong woman by name — and only after being called on his mistake by numerous other MRAs did his finally retract the post.

Elam has also made false accusations against little old me. In yet another case of libel-by-headline, he accused Jessica Valenti and me of being “child abusers” … because we’re feminists. (Seriously, that was the entire basis of his accusation.)

And at one point, either lying outright or misled by a troll, he put forth the absurd conspiracy theory that I was somehow responsible for an appalling Reddit forum known as the Beatingwomen subreddit.

So saying ”AVfM does engage in lies constructed just to discredit feminists and feminism regularly” is actually rather understated, I thought.

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

Also, while doing some quick research on AVFM and lying about feminists, I came to this old post: https://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2013/07/13/dont-be-that-rape-apologist-arthur-koestler-judgy-bitch-and-why-mras-hate-rape-awareness-campaigns/#more-9420

I was reading the post for the JB stuff, since she’s now commenting with attempted snark here, thinking to post that over on the thread where she’s commenting.

But instead I found the approved way to test your blockquote code.

😛

Shadow
Shadow
6 years ago

@Howard

No list of AVfM lies is complete without boxcutters!!

Alejandro
Alejandro
6 years ago

So far none of the examples provided comes remotely close to what they are being accused of (outright constructing a lie to make feminist look bad). Accusing someone without solid evidence, while certainly a bad thing to do, is not the same as outright lying (otherwise you would have to admit that all of the feminist that have accused AVfM of scamming people are lying)

The “confessed” rapist thing is an extremely missleading title, but anyone who reads the first sentence will realize what they mean by it.

The “child abusers” thing is also an example of over the top rethoric, but again, is not like they accused them of any specific child abuse incident. It is clearly stated in the AVfM article that they consider them “child abusers” in the sense that they support policies that (according to them) lead to child abuse. Is not different than feminist who refer to every single man who is sympathetic of male issues as a “woman hater”. Is not lying, just plain rethoric.

I wonder what you guys will come up with next. Maybe the person who pulled the fire alarm at that men rights conference was actually a male activist trying to make feminist look bad, right??

b

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

The “child abusers” thing is also an example of over the top rethoric, but again, is not like they accused them of any specific child abuse incident

Fuck you.

No, seriously, fuck you. You just said it was totally okay to call somebody a child abuser with no evidence.

But you want me to believe you’re outraged about false rape accusations?

FUCK YOU.

You’re literally excusing false rape accusations, you nitwit.

Howard Bannister
6 years ago

Is not different than feminist who refer to every single man who is sympathetic of male issues as a “woman hater”.

…protip. Nobody ever called you a woman hater for being sympathetic to genuine male issues.

It was hating women that got that.

Name ten genuine male issues.

NAME THEM, FUCKER.

I would bet money you can’t get ten without letting your hate for women shine through.

LBT (with writeathon poll!)

RE: Alejandro

It is clearly stated in the AVfM article that they consider them “child abusers” in the sense that they support policies that (according to them) lead to child abuse.

You ever tried out for basketball? Because with a reach like that, you should be in the NBA.

Child abuse is a serious accusation. It’s a crime to abuse children. To hate women? Not so much. It’s not ‘rhetoric’ to call someone a child abuser. Or do I get to call YOU a child abuser and just tell you it’s rhetoric?

sparky
sparky
6 years ago

Wow, so Alejandro was provided of numerous examples of AVFM lying to make feminists look bad, and refuses to accept any of them?

I’m so surprised

Alejandro
Alejandro
6 years ago

Fuck you.

No, seriously, fuck you. You just said it was totally okay to call somebody a child abuser with no evidence.

Typical feminist response. Emotionally charged, filles with insults, and completely failed to adress the actual argument. I said that what AVfM did was over the top rethoric instead of outright lying, but where on earth did I said that doing it was “totally OK”?? Go ahead and show me.

Child abuse is a serious accusation. It’s a crime to abuse children.

Except that nobody called David a child abuser in the criminal sense of the word, rather they accused him of promoting child abuse through his policies. Anyone with half a brain can see the difference between over the top rethoric and a factual accusation.

Feminist do it too. Remember when Kickstarter was funding this seduction manual that adviced pulling out your dick with a girl, and how nearly every single feminist went on refering to it as a “rape”manual? Newsflash: Pulling out your dick is not the same as raping a woman. At worst, it could be sexual assault, but it is not rape. So I will agree that the AVfM guy is a lier if you agree that all these feminist who refered to the kickstarter project as a rape manual are liers. Deal?

scott1139
scott1139
6 years ago

@Alejandro

I am genuinely impressed by how dense you are. Have you thought about volunteering as a sustainable fusion reactor? The pay would be astronomically higher than what the NBA could offer.

Alejandro
Alejandro
6 years ago

I am genuinely impressed by how dense you are. Have you thought about volunteering as a sustainable fusion reactor?

I tried but they told me I’m so hot the reaction would get out of control.