Is The Mankind Initiative’s #ViolenceIsViolence video a fraud?
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The ManKind Initiative, a UK organization devoted to fighting domestic violence against men, recently put out a video that’s been getting a lot of attention in the media and online, racking up more than six million views on YouTube in a little over a week.
The brief video, titled #ViolenceIsViolence, purports to depict the radically different reactions of bystanders to staged incidents of domestic violence between a couple in a London plaza. When the man was the aggressor, shoving the woman and grabbing her face, bystanders intervened and threatened to call the police. When the woman was the aggressor, the video shows bystanders laughing, and no one does a thing.
The video has been praised by assorted Men’s Rights Activists, naturally enough, but it has also gotten uncritical attention in some prominent media outlets as well, from Marie Claire to the Huffington Post.
There’s just one problem: The video may be a fraud, using deceptive editing to distort incidents that may well have played out quite differently in real life.
A shot-by-shot analysis of the video from beginning to end reveals that the first “incident” depicted is actually a composite of footage shot of at least two separate incidents, filmed on at least three different times of day and edited together into one narrative.
A careful viewing of the video also reveals that many of the supposed “reaction shots” in the video are not “reaction shots” at all, but shots taken in the same plaza at different times and edited in as if they are happening at the same time as the staged “incidents” depicted.
Moreover, none of the people depicted as laughing at the second incident are shown in the same frame as the fighting couple. There is no evidence that any of them were actually laughing at the woman attacking the man.
The editing tricks used in the video were brought to my attention by a reader who sent me a link to a blog entry by Miguel Lorente Acosta, a Professor of Legal Medicine at the University of Granada in Spain, and a Government Delegate for Gender Violence in Spain’s Ministry of Equality. He goes through the video shot by shot, showing each trick for what it is.
The post in Spanish, and his argument is a little hard to follow through the filter of Google Translate, so I will offer my own analysis of the video below, drawing heavily on his post. (His post is still worth reading, as he covers several examples of deceptive editing I’ve left out.)
I urge you to watch the video above through once, then follow me through the following analysis.
The first “incident” is made up of footage taken at three distinct times, if not more. The proof is in the bench.
In the opening shot of the video, we see an overview of the plaza. We see two people sitting on a bench, a man in black to the left and a woman in white to the right, with a trash can to the right of them. (All of these lefts and rights are relative to us, the viewers.) The trash can has an empty green bag hanging off of it.

As the first incident begins, we see the same bench, only now we see two women sitting where the man was previously sitting. The trash can now has a full bag of trash sitting next to it.

In this shot, showing bystanders intervening in what is portrayed as the same fight, and supposedly depicting a moment in time only about 30 seconds after the previous shot, we see that the two women on the bench have been replaced by two men, one in a suit and the other in a red hoodie. The full trash bag has been removed, and the trash can again has an empty trash bag hanging off of it.

Clearly this portion of the video does not depict a single incident.
What about the reaction shots? The easiest way to tell that the reaction shots in the video did not chronologically follow the shots that they come after in the video is by looking at the shadows. Some of the video was shot when the sky was cloudy and shadows were indistinct. Other shots were taken in direct sunlight. In the video, shots in cloudy weather are followed immediately by shots in roughly the same location where we see bright sunlight and clear shadows.
Here’s one shot, 9 seconds in. Notice the lack of clear shadows; the shadow of the sitting woman is little more than a vague smudge.

Here’s another shot from less than a second later in the same video – the timestamp is still at 9 seconds in. Now the plaza is in direct sunlight and the shadows are sharp and distinct.

If you watch the video carefully, you can see these sorts of discontinuities throughout. It seems highly unlikely that the various reaction shots actually depict reactions to what they appear to be reactions to. Which wouldn’t matter if this were a feature film; that’s standard practice. But this purports to be a depiction of real incidents caught on hidden camera and presented as they happened in real time.
The issue of non-reaction reaction shots is especially important when it comes to the second incident. In the first incident, we see a number of women, and one man, intervening to stop the violence. There is no question that’s what’s going on, because we see them in the same frame as the couple.
In the second incident, none of the supposed laughing onlookers ever appear in the same frame as the fighting couple. We have no proof that their laughter is in fact a reaction to the woman attacking the man. And given the dishonest way that the video is edited overall, I have little faith that they are real reaction shots.
The people who are in frame with the fighting couple are either trying resolutely to ignore the incident – as many of the onlookers also did in the first incident – or are clearly troubled by it.
I noticed one blonde woman who looked at first glance like she might have been laughing, but after pausing the video it became clear that she was actually alarmed and trying to move out of the way.

There is one other thing to note about the two incidents. In the first case, the onlookers didn’t intervene until after the man escalated his aggression by grabbing the woman by her face. In the second video, the screen fades to black shortly after the woman escalates her aggression to a similar level. We don’t know what, if anything, happened after that.
Is it possible that the first part of the video, despite being a composite of several incidents, depicts more or less accurately what happened each time the video makers tried this experiment? Yes. Is it possible that onlookers did indeed laugh as the woman attacked the man? Yes.
But there is only one way for The ManKind Initiative to come clean and clear up any suspicion: they need to post the unedited, time-stamped footage of each of the incidents they filmed from each of their three cameras so we can see how each incident really played out in real time and which, if any, of the alleged reactions were actual reactions.
In addition to the editing tricks mentioned above, we don’t know if the video makers edited out portions of the staged attacks that might have influenced how the bystanders reacted.
The video makers should also post the footage of the incidents that they did not use for the advert, so we can see if reactions to the violence were consistently different when the genders of attackers and victims were switched. Two incidents make up a rather small sample – even if one of these incidents is actually two incidents disguised as one.
Domestic violence against men is a real and serious problem. But you can’t fight it effectively with smoke and mirrors.
Posted on May 30, 2014, in domestic violence, MRA, shit that never happened and tagged #ViolenceIsViolence, domestic violence, men's rights, MRA, The MAnkind Initiative. Bookmark the permalink. 933 Comments.








I got so caught up that in the argument that i didnt notice the pattern. One person makes a logical allegation againat me which i respond to logically and then another person tells me to “fuck off” and when i leave, the cycle repeats itself. If you’re so insistent on making me look like the bad guy then go ahead. Funny thing is the initial poster never responds while others keep insulting me. Fine, im whatever you think i am. Have a good day.
Good lord, has he actually gone now?
Citation needed, sweetie, cos so far all we’ve had are your unsupported opinions.
@gravitas (is that okay as a shortening? Tell me if not & I won’t use it), we should be so lucky.
Anand has already pulled the “I won’t go unless you ban me” BS.
@titianblue, Nah, that’s fine – picking an Ian M. Banks ship name as my nym was always going to be lengthy, so shortening is hunky-dory.
And yeah, thinking back, he’s said he’s leaving many times before this. Bugger.
We don’t have to. You’re a creepy little loser, which is bog-standard for trolls.
You’re so invested in preserving your male privilege – that you dismiss everything said to you. You’re also either so willfully stupid or so disingenuous that you claim to believe there’s any equivilancy between the position that women are human beings who should have the same legal and social rights and respect that men do (ie. feminism) and the position that women shouldn’t have any of those rights, shouldn’t even have the basic right to safety (MRM and the other misogynist groups).
You have nothing of value to add to this or any conversation, because you’ve made it very clear you don’t really think of women are people. You might not be smart enough to realise that, but we’ve seen sooooo many troll here, and you’re not at all unusual. The only one agreeing with you is an out-and-proud misogynist who’s admitted in the past he enjoys victimising people. Think about the sort of support you’re getting. It’s like the company you keep. But think about it elsewhere, because you’re not going to get your precious fee-fees coddled here, sonny.
Hey Titianblue? Do you know roughly where in the comments these links were posted? Because this data would be really useful to have and I can’t find where in the comments they were posted:
Oh hey block quotes worked!
@historophilia,
They’re part of a Guardian article posted by Stevie, on the first page of comments:
http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/05/30/is-the-mankind-initiatives-violenceisviolence-video-a-fraud/comment-page-1/#comment-500003
Karen Ingala-Smith also has a relevant blog post about this:
http://kareningalasmith.com/2013/04/29/this-thing-about-male-victims/
Interesting what the old Director, David Hughes of Mankind initiative (now a Trustee) said about women back in 2007.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/men-left-clear-up-detritus-2237022
@titianblue, thank you!
Is Paul Elam’s post (that he reposted years later) about turning DV awareness month in “bash a violent b*tch month” enough to disturb you?
So, you think violence against men is a real and serious problem and violence against women isn’t a real serious and problem right? If you thought violence against women was a real problem you would not be defending Paul Elam by staying neutral about him. Can you find an equivalent post on this site in which David asks us to run MRAs over with our cars? No you can’t. Because it doesn’t exist. That you can pretend Elam isn’t a violence promoting misogynist makes you by default a misogynist. No matter how much you deny it.
Btw, this video has nothing whatsoever to do with the law or the police. This video has to do with bystander effect. The laws already gender neutral. Assault is always illegal. Are you saying you want to change the law to privilege male victims over female victims?
Does anyone know if the MRAs have ever discussed the domestic violence between Johnny Weir and his husband? I’ve never seen it. Probably because there’s no evil wimmenz to blame here and they don’t care about gay men at all.
Anand: I came back here only to find my name being dragged into tge mud again for having a different opinion and respecting other’s.
Nope. For being dishonest about those two things.
Constructive criticism is extremely rare.
Nope. You’ve gotten it, you just don’t like it. I’ll repeat it though.
Make a claim and defend it. Stand for something. Be honest in debate.
Do those and you will get less hostilty.
To all those who are calling me names, i wont respond to you. I respect you but i also respect myself enough not to throw myself into a den of angry wolves. Good day to you.
Oo! A flounce.
Please stick the landing.
Nope. 12 minutes was all you could manage. Sad.
Cassandrakitty, I dont respond to people who call me names mainly because i dont want to escalate it any further. Its a defence mechanism.
Then stop replying to them, rather than bemoaning how mean they are, while pretending you are above the fray. That’s dishonest and manipulative.
Wait… you are willing to make a stand:
Maybe this video may have been subject to selective editing but i really hope that doesn’t erase the message it sends. DV against men is a real and serious problem and blaming it on the patriarchy alone solves nothing. Cheers.
It’s a misogynist stand. One that excuses duplicity, if it’s for the right cause.
It’s an immoral stand.
But it’s a stand.
Fade, Feminists blame men’s problems on the patriarchy and MRAs blame it feminism. I dont really care either way. Im more concerned about convincing the authorities to use resources to help such men rather than play the blame game. We need specific laws or provisions to help such men. Its not a matter to be taken lightly.
So…. you think men are more in need of DV help than women.
That’s a stand.
Yo don’t care if women are the greater share of victims. You don’t care if they are the victims of greater violence. You just want to help the men.
See, you do have an opinion. One which is at odds with your claim of “looking at both sides”.
*PS, people aren’t here at all hours. Some of us sleep, work, spend time with friends. We are responding to you. You just pretend we don’t/suffer confirmation bias about the lack of reply. Given the number of points you have raised, only to drop (“lets agree to disagree) you have no high horse to climb,.
So that White House petition was started by MRAs? Hmm. Anyway, Women’s Aid has responded to this video: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-health/10858831/Domestic-violence-viral-ad-the-real-difference-between-attacks-on-women-and-attacks-on-men.html
Thanks for reminding me to refresh my color, Mammotheers!
Vampire Red fades into a nice deep pink, so I haven’t refreshed in a while.
Brz and Anand are really booooooooring, almost makes you miss that guy that kept yelling SPINSTERS at us, at least that was mildly entertaining and he didn’t try to manipulate us with “you hurt my poor fee-fees”.
Piece of advice: adding a smiley to things you say or ending your posts with “cheers” and “have a nice day” doesn’t make them less offensive, it actually just makes you an asshole by pretending what you just said wasn’t vile and gaslighting people for taking offense.
I haven’t had time to read all the comments (my sister got married yesterday <3 ), but I wanted to share this with the group
A few days ago I posted in my BDSM forrum this video, along with a critical blog post I found before I knew it was fake. The post did mention, however, the misrepresentation of statistic (as in, the 40% male victims they claim are not victims in the way that is shown in the video).
The MRA answers literally rained over the thread. They posted videos about "Misandry and the diposability of males" (from UK groups if I'm not mistaken – I haven't had time to watch them and I'm not sure I will), as well as some "sources" is Spanish, mainly from Spain which seems to be the headquarters of Spanish-speaking MRAs.
Most of them were articles by one single psychologist (referencing each other as "sources") trying to describe female-on.male abuse in a way which sounds A LOT like the way the abusers tell the story: "she's nagging and yelling and saying it's all his fault, and blaming him for the conflicts which are normal within a relationship." Apparently that's all it takes for women to abuse, even when Bancroft is able to describe a wide set of more sophisticated techniques for psychological abuse, which he himself describes as being used by both female and male perpetrators.
So I think both the video and the article are following one line of logic: women are as violent as men, so when a man says a woman abuses him (like many abusers do) and he is still considered the abuser (my guess is by people who actually know shit about DV), then it's the feminists' fault for hiding female on male violence!
It all sounds a lot like WHY WON'T YOU BELIEVE THE ABUSER WHEN HE CLAIMS TO BE THE VICTIM!?!?
It looks like I've opened one big fat can of worms in there. I'm delighted they showep up at the party, so everyone can see them for what they are.
Does anyone here use shampoo bars? I tried them once and I loved them.
Yes I use one of the Lush shampoo bars. They’re great.
You tell people you don’t believe them because they can’t prove what they’re saying. That’s not remotely respectful.
We’re not your mommies. And you haven’t asked for concrit; you’ve spewed offensive shit everywhere and then whined when it was met with frustration rather than hand-holding. Nothing about your style suggests you are hear to learn.
Lies.
WWTH,
Such rude name-calling! You need to hold his hand and gently offer constructive criticism of his misogyny (without calling it that). Otherwise you’re an angry sockpuppet wolf.
IMO the best analogy for a blog comments section is a public place. Look, if you were bothering a group of people in a city park, and they told you they didn’t want you to bother them any more, they couldn’t technically make you leave, but you’d still be an asshole if you didn’t. So yes, while you have the freedom to continue commenting here until David bans you, Kittehserf is right that your refusal to leave us alone when asked is assholish.
Anand: Why you think you’re entitled to civil replies and having your feelings placed above all else is a mystery. Are you always this bad with boundaries, or is it only when you think you’re talking to a bunch of women? You should think about that.
Not really. He feels entitled because he’s a dude. How dare we not treat him as the superior being that makes him!
Also for Anand,
“Pandas are also kind of hilarious. Males will do handstands while urinating, in order to get their pee as high up the trunk of a tree as possible.”
This made me want to respond with “Me, too!”
(I am secretly 12.)
@Luzbelitx, and Bancroft says that claiming to be the abused party is a very common tactic of abusers. Essentially because they view any disagreement or any attempts to fight back by their partners as utterly unacceptable. He gives an example of an abuser describing his partners efforts to physically defend herself against his brutal physical abuse (TW: description of violence, he grabbed her by the throat and slammed her into a wall, she responded by kicking him in the groin) and being horrified by the idea and categorising it as “abuse” though it was cut and dried self-defence against his violence.
He also describes how abusive men will frequently tell their friends and family that they are the abused one to turn people against their partner. Whereas the actual abused partner is often too ashamed of being abused to tell anyone.
And often the “abuse” abused men describe is their partner standing up for themselves or attempting to set boundaries and make their feelings known or pointing out their partners bad behaviour.
…and I judge you for that.
Harshly.
@historophilia
Absolutely!
It’s hard not to see it as an attempt to give more credibility to abusers.
Why was a different script used for the victim man than the victim women?
What’s that about bystanders always intervening to help women?
http://jezebel.com/woman-beaten-to-death-for-refusing-to-give-men-her-numb-1584496268
Peter La Croix:
Why would think anyone here would react differently whether the victim was a man or a woman? Why would you think anyone here would react differently whether the aggressor was a man or a woman?
Becuase Peter isn’t very bright and thinks we’d be cheering on a female aggressor.
Reposting the link left above by Polly to make sure it’s seen http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/men-left-clear-up-detritus-2237022
The chairman of this group is a misogynist. Big shock!
WWTH: That link brings the words “whiny-ass titty baby” to mind.
Not surprising. Their associates with Erin Pizzey as well, so…
Good point. I notice misandric bystanders were on hand to help these women, too.
I probably would react differently, because violent men are probably more likely to assault me (and also they trigger me, but that’s a pretty individual thing). I would even grant that culturally, we aren’t concerned enough with male victims of violent women. But none of that adds up to the video’s message, which seems to be trying to prop male victims up by dragging female victims down.
@Marci,
The video that Jean posted is a What Would You Do? video. I’ve watched it before, and their presentation was much more nuanced. Funnily enough, Jean left out the fact that people who did intervene to help the abused man were other women. Zie also left out information about other videos that WWYD has done about domestic abuse. In similar experiments, where they portrayed scenarios of male-on-female abuse, they found a lot.
For example, they ran two scenarios where a teenaged boy was abusing his teenaged girlfriend. In the first, they were dressed in a sort of preppy fashion. In the second, he was dressed to look tougher. In both scenarios, people readily (relatively speaking) intervened (though more so when the male abuser looked like he was of a lower income status). However, in those scenarios, “readily” meant that about 20% of the 120 people who walked by actually did something. WWYD ran a similar scenario with an adult couple where a man was abusing a woman, and only half as many people responded because they feared the adult man’s retaliation more than the teenaged boy’s.
In yet another scenario that they, where abused women (one white, one black) walked into a restaurant, made up to look bruised and battered, and then met with their boyfriends (one also white, the other also black), who proceeded to act abusively. While they found that people were likely to come to the aid of both women when the victims were dressed more conservatively, they also found that people were far more likely to ignore or blame the victim if her clothing was more revealing. People either assumed that the couple were actually a prostitute and her pimp (and then, because of prejudice against sex-workers, didn’t rush to help her because they blamed her) or got angry because they were making their problems public. :( Unsurprisingly but sadly, other scenarios that they ran proved similar points about sexual harassment (i.e. that people are more likely to stop a harasser if his victim is dressed conservatively and more likely to blame the victim if she’s dressed in a more revealing manner).
Tl;dr: The MRA sympathizers who have pointed to the WWYD video have dishonestly failed to point to what other videos produced by the same group have demonstrated about the problems and prejudices that female victims of domestic violence and sexual harassment face and left out points made in the video about male victims of domestic violence that concur with feminist theories on DV.
@Ally
I straightened my hair when I was younger, and it seemed to work? Thought not if it was wet/ humid/ sweaty. But I just used a cheap little straightener thing.
Also, idk if our hairs are similiar wave-like, but mine is straighter when longer and curlier when shorter, so if our hair happens the same, the problem might resolve itself.
I’ve seen it before and thought it looked awesome :D
that’s your hair fanned out and weird looking? I think it looks cute :P
@contrapangloss
It doesn’t bug me, but YMMV.
@lea
aiieee what brand do you use I need that hair color I need it I need it! /hyper
Marie,
Manic Panic.
@lea
thanks :D I’ll try to check it out sometime.
How long does Manic Panic last? I’ve been wanting to try it.
bunnybunny, your Furrinati Overlords are so cute!
Manic Panic doesn’t last very long; mine has faded out from a few days to a few weeks, depending on the color and the care I was giving it. Reds and oranges lasted the longest, blues and greens the least. But it looks really good.
Not sure why this just occured to me, but in movies/tv the cliche when they show a woman/girl intervening to help a man/boy against an aggressor, the reaction of the man/boy is “why did you help me? now I look like a loser who needs a woman/girl to rescue me”.
Re:temporary hair dyes – on unbleached hair they only last a few washes for me. On bleached hair they last longer than it takes for the roots to grow out noticeably. Purple on bleached fades out to a really pretty colour too. I found Fudge to be way better than Manic Panic. I have, just a few days ago, gone back to brown. I loved coloured hair, but the maintenance was such a pain.
RE: WWTH
Does anyone know if the MRAs have ever discussed the domestic violence between Johnny Weir and his husband?
Johnny Weir, no! D8 Nooooo!
RE: auggziliary
Does anyone here use shampoo bars? I tried them once and I loved them.
I fucking love shampoo bars. They make traveling so much easier. Lush is good; I currently have a beer bar from some local place, because the bar was bigger and cheaper. Doesn’t smell or lather quite as nice, but still good!
of course this is multiple cuts. they have recorded several incidents and cherry picked the best ones. However if this were to actually happen you would see this play out exactly how the video portrays. People stand up for women, not for men. Look at the look of horror on the faces of the people when he is the agressor, look at their faces when she is. THe more I read into this lame website the more I realise that all it serves is to detract from actual equality and purport to be the authority on all intentions behind all actions in the manosphere.
Can whomever posted that link on the other thread about the group behind the video post it here? I lost the link or I would.
One of the many fine points made by the chairman of the Mankind Initiative was that women still rely on men, except through taxes which men pay the vast majority of.
That killed any glimmer of hope that the makers of the video at least had their hearts in the right place.
Shut up, Bon
RE: Bon O Bolishas
However if this were to actually happen you would see this play out exactly how the video portrays.
Have you actually been INVOLVED in breaking up female-on-male violence? I have. I’ve also broken up female-on-female and male-on-female. Unless you actually have something to add besides, “I THINK this would happen, thus it WOULD,” can it.
By that logic, if I get a bag of Skittles, they will all be red.
Commenting on a post that explains in some detail why those reaction shots are not at all reliable. Good job on the complete lack of reading comprehension, Bon!
Now I’m kind of tempted to make a video adding in other 100% real reaction shots. Zuko’s “That’s rough, buddy” seems like an obvious place to start.
“Sure, they spun it to look more genuine, but it’s TOTALLY GENUINE GUYS.”
Katz, I love it.
Favorite part, totally the Star Wars one. Zuko totally gets your pain at having a kind of nasty dad, Luke.
That’s rough, buddy.
Truly, they have much in common.
Argenti, did you mean this article about the old chair of the Mankind Initiative?
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/men-left-clear-up-detritus-2237022
It was posted earlier in this thread by Polly. And yeah, major ick.
I read that and thought of “old chair” as in “hard chair”.
Mildly excited that David’s post has been linked to by a number of UK feminists on my twitter timeline.
You know where the MRAs were going on about how David was no longer credible in feminist circles? I wonder if MRAs could start talking about how there will never be any more Firefly and how noone ever really liked it anyway, cos then I would definitely get the new series I long for.
@sparky
“Why would you think anyone here would react differently whether the aggressor was a man or a woman?”
That question was actually addressed to David.I simply asked how he would react to the two scenes in real life.I know that the video was scripted but let’s use the scenario here. If men saw another man being mistreated by a female would they come to his aid and even suggest calling the police, like the women did when they believed it was the man as the aggressor.
How do you think David would react?
@sparky, how could you comment on a private conversation between Petie-boy and David? /sarcasm
Peter, as an internet tough guy I would naturally intervene in both situations, stepping between the fighting parties and ending the fight.
I actually don’t intervene in a lot of fights in real life because I don’t see a lot of fights in real life. I intervened once to keep a drunk “friend” of mine from getting punched once when he was acting like a dick, does that count? More recently I saw a big beefy dude chase down a guy and pin him to the ground, and along with various other onlookers I … stood there and yelled a bit to try to figure out what was going on. The guy said he was an off duty cop and the guy he had pinned had stolen something. Eventually the cops came and sorted it out; apparently the dude had stolen something.
Note to woodyred: I censored your comment becuase you linked to a video of someone BEING SEXUALLY ABUSED.
I know you want to make a point using the video, but everyone here is aware of that video, and more to the point: it is not ok to post videos of child sexual abuse here. Putting that sort of material online ADDS TO THE TRAUMA OF THE VICTIM, in this case a young boy.
Do you actually give a shit about the boy, or are you more concerned about scoring a point in your argument?
You can certainly refer to the video to make whatever point you want to make with it, but you cannot post it here.
Woodyred is trying to post that video of the boy being sexually abused? What a morally bankrupt ass-head!
Why am I not shocked that an MRA cares more about scoring a “gotcha” than actually not harming boys?
Is that disgusting video still up on AVforM’s site?
(Yeah, I’m not gonna be giving them any money ever).
First response: “Shut up, Bon”
Classy.
Even classier: Shut up, Anand.